Got A Speeding Ticket, Even With Radar Detector On!

[LexKid630]

Last night around 11pm i was driving down a long stretch of highway (speed limit 50mph) when all of a sudden my radar detector started chirping like it was on fire! I slammed on the brakes as soon, and as hard as i could, but it was too late. About 100ft ahead i saw a cop perpendicular to the road in the grass turn on his headlights. I assumed the cop had used "instant-on" radar when he saw me coming, since i was the only car on the road at the time. As i passed him he drove out onto the road and pulled me over. As soon as i rolled down my window the first thing he asked me, was if i had a radar detector. I stated that i didn't (since i have it internally concealed in the front grill and ashtray compartment of my Rx350). He stated that he had me at 86mph, then asked for my information and returned to his car. I assumed he knew, well, "thought" that i had a detector since i slowed down so rapidly after he turned it on. Since they're legal in RI, i didn't really care if he found it, i just thought he might be less hard on me without that knowledge.

Bottom line, he gave my a ticket (looks like it was printed out, as if from a computer and printer; is this the new way now?) for going 65 in a 50, instead of the 86 he must have calculated when he FIRST turned it on. Even though the ticket says my "actual speed" was 65, under "police use" there's a circled 86 and 'radar' checked of. However the actual "charge" states "going 15mph over the limit".

Don't get me wrong, this $235 ticket is much better than (i can't even imagine) what it would have been for the 86... but i'm just mad in general. A few years ago i received a ticket for 99 in a 55 (same general place) but got off with a lesser fine by appearing before a judge in court.

And please, no lectures about safety and your opinions about speeding... I'm just posting this for your help as to what i should do about this ticket.

Do i pay the fine by mail, or wait until my "optional" Jan 8 2008 court date and fight it? My fear is that the officer will tell the judge i was REALLY going 86, and that he already reduced it. Could the judge increase my fine from the $235 amt on the ticket?

Thanks for your help!

[SW03ES]

Well, you were abhorently breaking the law so the only person you should be mad at is yourself. Thats not a statement against speeding, its just a statement of fact. You have absolutely no defense whatsoever. Speed all you want, just don't be mad or indignant when you get a ticket.

I don't think the judge can raise the fine although I don't know for sure. Unless you can think of some sort of defense or you have a spotless record I don't see a point in going to court.

[nc211]

Get....A.....LAWYER!!!! Sure as the sun comes up, this is the perfect situation that you'll be so thankful you GOT A LAWYER!! Don't do this on your own, as you will most likely get the full brunt of the penalty, and be paying for it on your insurance for years to come, no matter what your age is, or how clean your driving record might be. To save thousands of dollars in increased insurance rates, you might have to spend a few nights watching 'Blood Runs Red on the Highway" with the other local Duke boys. But, at least you'll have a clean record by Friday of the same week.

Trust me, you want a lawyer on this one. My dad, at 50 something years old, not a ticket in 30 years, got popped years ago in a speed trap, twice in one month, at the same speed trap. Now granted, you would think he would of learned his lesson, but noooo, Mr. Former Nuke Bomber Pilot wasn't paying attention to his speed, he was too busy singing that damn theme song from Titanic from that anal-haggle-snaggled-toothed Magnum PI Mustache havin', carrot stick lookin' devil dirt !Removed!! And, got BUSTED... He didn't think much of it, and paid the fines. Ask him now what he would of done, if he had only known? Lawyer baby...lawyer.... He paid out the tail pipe in increased rates....and was ticked off for two years straight!

I told him "you're lucky that's all you got. You keep listening to that satanic gutter !Removed! and your manhood will fall off!"

Guess what he wants for Christmas this year? Her new CD! ARGHHH

[LAG JR]

Last night around 11pm i was driving down a long stretch of highway (speed limit 50mph) when all of a sudden my radar detector started chirping like it was on fire! I slammed on the brakes as soon, and as hard as i could, but it was too late. About 100ft ahead i saw a cop perpendicular to the road in the grass turn on his headlights. I assumed the cop had used "instant-on" radar when he saw me coming, since i was the only car on the road at the time. As i passed him he drove out onto the road and pulled me over. As soon as i rolled down my window the first thing he asked me, was if i had a radar detector. I stated that i didn't (since i have it internally concealed in the front grill and ashtray compartment of my Rx350). He stated that he had me at 86mph, then asked for my information and returned to his car. I assumed he knew, well, "thought" that i had a detector since i slowed down so rapidly after he turned it on. Since they're legal in RI, i didn't really care if he found it, i just thought he might be less hard on me without that knowledge.

Bottom line, he gave my a ticket (looks like it was printed out, as if from a computer and printer; is this the new way now?) for going 65 in a 50, instead of the 86 he must have calculated when he FIRST turned it on. Even though the ticket says my "actual speed" was 65, under "police use" there's a circled 86 and 'radar' checked of. However the actual "charge" states "going 15mph over the limit".

Don't get me wrong, this $235 ticket is much better than (i can't even imagine) what it would have been for the 86... but i'm just mad in general. A few years ago i received a ticket for 99 in a 55 (same general place) but got off with a lesser fine by appearing before a judge in court.

And please, no lectures about safety and your opinions about speeding... I'm just posting this for your help as to what i should do about this ticket.

Do i pay the fine by mail, or wait until my "optional" Jan 8 2008 court date and fight it? My fear is that the officer will tell the judge i was REALLY going 86, and that he already reduced it. Could the judge increase my fine from the $235 amt on the ticket?

Thanks for your help!

Pay the ticket.

In the long run will be cheaper than going to court.

[nc211]

Pay the ticket.

In the long run will be cheaper than going to court.

I respectively disagree... $235 up front, and then a few thousand over the next two years in insurance increases. I'd give a lawyer a shot and have a $300 "parking ticket" fine instead. Not sure if your state as "prayer for judgement" which gives you a warning, no fine an no reporting to your insurance company, with a catch... you can't get another in two years, or else both go on at the same time "this one, and the new one". But, even that can be argued down, and some define that probation period to focus on not getting the "exact same" ticket...aka...same speed at the same place.

[Gryphon]

630, unless you have some sort of defense in mind to beat the ticket, you are probably wasting your money on an attorney. The days of cops forgetting about court dates and tickets getting dismissed are long gone. And you can hardly use your radar detector as a defense because you lied to the cop about having it.

I hung out with cops in my youth. Cops are, among other things, professional witnesses. They do it many thousand of times in their lives. You won't beat them in court unless you have a real case.

I'd pay the ticket and move on.

Tom

[flop170]

here in texas there is a guy named jim lollar that you pay 50 bucks and you pay the ticket, but it's guaranteed to be off your record... to me that's the best way to go... cuz you can screw up as many times as you want.... and i'm sure there are places like this everywhere else as well!! but you definitely do not want it on your record!!

[nc211]

It's not beating the cop in court though, that's not what the attorney does. If your record is responsibly clean, the attorney can negotiate with the DA for a lesser charge, replaced with a little more money on the fine. Trust me, a lot of states do it, a frequently, usually in batches on a designated day. The states aren't dumb, they know you're willing to pay more to them, in order to avoid paying even more to some company somewhere else. States want the money, they need the money, and if your driving record shows that you're a responsible driver, but just screwed up by accident, they'll gladly take your money for their purposes, instead of you giving it to someone else..aka....your insurance company. I'll bet this is why the cop wrote 65 in a 50 as the nature of the offense, instead of the actual speed, which an attorney, and especially the DA, would have no way of justifying to the court for the reduced offense. 36 over is too much to negotiate with, and in many states would of landed you in jail on the spot. But 15 is manageable, and the cop knew it when he pulled up your history on his computer. If you had a bunch of infractions, you'd of been cuffed' & stuffed' by Roscoe himself, on the spot.

Just at least call an attorney and ask before you send off the money, it won't hurt and it's free!

I got nailed last winter in my wife's new car, and at the end of the day, it cost me $250 bucks total for going 67 in a 50, nothing on my record. It was much like this situation here, cop could of really nailed me, because techinally I was in a construction zone, but because of my good record that he saw on his computer, he didn't check that little box saying I was in one, which opened the door for the attorney to get the state to agree to $75 bucks more on the fine to make it a parking ticket. It was done with a batch of about 200 others just like it, on the same tuesday of every week the DA opens the doors for negotiations...

[denslexusgx470]

Pay the ticket, go to traffic school, and walk away! No problems and complications, and just BE CAREFUL next time! ;)

[Rya]

Maybe call a lawyer like NC suggested. But if you hire an atty. & they don't come through for you, you'll end up still having to pay the ticket, court costs & attorney fees. See what the lawyer says, but it might be easier to pay the ticket & be done with it.

[dcfish]

Last night around 11pm i was driving down a long stretch of highway (speed limit 50mph) when all of a sudden my radar detector started chirping like it was on fire! I slammed on the brakes as soon, and as hard as i could, but it was too late. About 100ft ahead i saw a cop perpendicular to the road in the grass turn on his headlights. I assumed the cop had used "instant-on" radar when he saw me coming, since i was the only car on the road at the time. As i passed him he drove out onto the road and pulled me over. As soon as i rolled down my window the first thing he asked me, was if i had a radar detector. I stated that i didn't (since i have it internally concealed in the front grill and ashtray compartment of my Rx350). He stated that he had me at 86mph, then asked for my information and returned to his car. I assumed he knew, well, "thought" that i had a detector since i slowed down so rapidly after he turned it on. Since they're legal in RI, i didn't really care if he found it, i just thought he might be less hard on me without that knowledge.

Bottom line, he gave my a ticket (looks like it was printed out, as if from a computer and printer; is this the new way now?) for going 65 in a 50, instead of the 86 he must have calculated when he FIRST turned it on. Even though the ticket says my "actual speed" was 65, under "police use" there's a circled 86 and 'radar' checked of. However the actual "charge" states "going 15mph over the limit".

Don't get me wrong, this $235 ticket is much better than (i can't even imagine) what it would have been for the 86... but i'm just mad in general. A few years ago i received a ticket for 99 in a 55 (same general place) but got off with a lesser fine by appearing before a judge in court.

And please, no lectures about safety and your opinions about speeding... I'm just posting this for your help as to what i should do about this ticket.

Do i pay the fine by mail, or wait until my "optional" Jan 8 2008 court date and fight it? My fear is that the officer will tell the judge i was REALLY going 86, and that he already reduced it. Could the judge increase my fine from the $235 amt on the ticket?

Thanks for your help!

I heard you can do something like this (I don't know if it really works ). Pay the ticket $1.00 over the amount, When you receive the check for $1.00 that you overpaid tear it up. Without the check being cashed the speeding charge will remain an open case and never go on your record. Anyone else ever hear of this ?

[djspawn00]

Last night around 11pm i was driving down a long stretch of highway (speed limit 50mph) when all of a sudden my radar detector started chirping like it was on fire! I slammed on the brakes as soon, and as hard as i could, but it was too late. About 100ft ahead i saw a cop perpendicular to the road in the grass turn on his headlights. I assumed the cop had used "instant-on" radar when he saw me coming, since i was the only car on the road at the time. As i passed him he drove out onto the road and pulled me over. As soon as i rolled down my window the first thing he asked me, was if i had a radar detector. I stated that i didn't (since i have it internally concealed in the front grill and ashtray compartment of my Rx350). He stated that he had me at 86mph, then asked for my information and returned to his car. I assumed he knew, well, "thought" that i had a detector since i slowed down so rapidly after he turned it on. Since they're legal in RI, i didn't really care if he found it, i just thought he might be less hard on me without that knowledge.

Bottom line, he gave my a ticket (looks like it was printed out, as if from a computer and printer; is this the new way now?) for going 65 in a 50, instead of the 86 he must have calculated when he FIRST turned it on. Even though the ticket says my "actual speed" was 65, under "police use" there's a circled 86 and 'radar' checked of. However the actual "charge" states "going 15mph over the limit".

Don't get me wrong, this $235 ticket is much better than (i can't even imagine) what it would have been for the 86... but i'm just mad in general. A few years ago i received a ticket for 99 in a 55 (same general place) but got off with a lesser fine by appearing before a judge in court.

And please, no lectures about safety and your opinions about speeding... I'm just posting this for your help as to what i should do about this ticket.

Do i pay the fine by mail, or wait until my "optional" Jan 8 2008 court date and fight it? My fear is that the officer will tell the judge i was REALLY going 86, and that he already reduced it. Could the judge increase my fine from the $235 amt on the ticket?

Thanks for your help!

I heard you can do something like this (I don't know if it really works ). Pay the ticket $1.00 over the amount, When you receive the check for $1.00 that you overpaid tear it up. Without the check being cashed the speeding charge will remain an open case and never go on your record. Anyone else ever hear of this ?

That one dollar over thing never words... don't waste your time or dollar. Just go to court, if the DA doesn't plea a deal, they Usually do in the form of an increased fine with reduced points, plead not guilty. In many cases the DA will try to bargain with you again granted they make you come back another day when they give you a court date. It does vary from court to court, but don't plead guilty unless they're offering your some incentive. Plead NOT GUILTY even if you are 110% guilty... trust me on this one.

[smooth1]

I'll bet this is why the cop wrote 65 in a 50 as the nature of the offense, instead of the actual speed, which an attorney, and especially the DA, would have no way of justifying to the court for the reduced offense. 36 over is too much to negotiate with, and in many states would of landed you in jail on the spot. But 15 is manageable, and the cop knew it when he pulled up your history on his computer. If you had a bunch of infractions, you'd of been cuffed' & stuffed' by Roscoe himself, on the spot.

Yeah, once you get to a certian number, I beleive it's 25 mph over the speed limit, they call that a criminal offence, not a moving violation. In Florida they have a highway stipulation law. In other words, if your doing twice or more of the speed limit, the charges can stack up. Ask my brother. :) He was on a GSXR 1000, out on a country road. The speed limit was 55. The radar read 131 mph. He was charged with 1) Speeding with reckless abandon. 2) Misconduct with a motor vehicle 3) endangering the lives of pedestrians and others and I can't remember the 2 maybe 3 other charges. Anyway, they took him to jail, impounded the bike, and I got a call. He was facing realistically 6 months in jail, about 5 grand in fines, and loss of his liscence for 1 year. We got a lawyer. 2 months later he got 1 year probation, had to take an extended safe driving course, and a $500 fine, no liscence suspension, and because it was a criminal case, it doesn't show on his driving record at all.

Of course this I beleive is an extreme case, and a lawyer is more than justified. But I did learn a few things about how the "system" works. One is they hate case loads. So when the attorney threatened to plead not guilty and go to a full jury trial, which spends alot of the states money, and time and other resources, the offers kept coming in and every other week the offer was a little better than the one before it as we got closer to the trial proceedings. As soon as our lawyer said that is the real bottom, and I think this is a good offer, we accepted and pled out. Just something to think about.

And, you will have to check this part out on your own. But I am pretty sure here in Florida anyway, that if you go to court over a speeding ticket, you can only plead guilty or not guilty. You can't argue the amount of the speeding. In other words when you go before the judge and they ask you if you how do you plea, you can't say " Yes, I was, but not by how much the officer said I was." That would be an admission of guilt, and then sentencing or the fine would be imposed, and now you would have court costs on top of that. So if you decide to fight the ticket, you do in fact need to get a lawyer, so they can call and make arrange a plea deal in advance. So NC211 is very right about if you fight it, get a lawyer.

My personal advice,,,,if you have an attorney, call him or her and get real advice. If you can plea it out to help your driving record and the long term effects, then atleast you can make a better informed decision.

[lenore]

First, when they ask were you speeding, say yes sir, I wasnt paying attention and probably was. Cops like honesty. And yes go to court, if the cop for some lucky reason doesnt show up, (very seldom) sometimes the judge will throw the ticket out. But generally the fine is reduced which helps (here in California) Good luck

[raymsixsix]

You could call a lawyer and give him the headache of dealing with it. If you have a good driving record, the lawyer can probably get it negotiated and you just end up paying the lawyer and nothing on your record. My sister has received many tickets and the only one that he couldn't get her out of, was this last one where she was going 105 mph in a 70 mph zone. For that one she had to go to advanced driver improvement class.

[Lexls]

Pay it and move on, case closed. I wouldn't waste the time of going to court just to save a couple of bucks. You were speeding and got caught, it happens. Next time you're going down that stretch just remember it's a speed trap and go the limit.

[LexKid630]

Well you're never going to believe this! Well, after reading your responses and speaking to various lawyer friends, i decided it was best to just pay the ticket.

But tonight, just about an hour ago, i was driving on the VERY SAME HIGHWAY, when i spotted an under-cover crown vic in the high speed lane going ~80 in a 50. I began to follow the car (i assumed it was an officer) when he quickly pulled into the next lane, went behind me, before pulling me over!

He stated that he "set me up"! I will admit i was speeding, but SO WAS HE! And i was behind him the whole time, with a few car lengths between us. He stated to me, "What if i was on an emergency call and started going 100, would you follow me then?" I didn't really have an answer to that.

My reasoning is that if he's on an emergency call, he should have his police lights on and sirens blasting.

So bottom line, he gave me a ticket for going 60 in a 50 (he said i was really doing 80 with him) with the "clocked" checked-off on the ticket. It's an $85 fine, or i can go to court on Jan 8 2008! This is the same date i could have gone to court for the other one! I regret sending the payment for the other one; i could have made it a day thing 

I just think it's funny that officers can do whatever they want, while citicens have to pay... My tax dollars at work.

BTW i was driving back from seeing the movie "American Gangster" -sort of ironic.

I think i may try to fight this one. The whole time, i was behind him, NEVER in front. Do i have a case?

[djspawn00]

Well you're never going to believe this! Well, after reading your responses and speaking to various lawyer friends, i decided it was best to just pay the ticket.

But tonight, just about an hour ago, i was driving on the VERY SAME HIGHWAY, when i spotted an under-cover crown vic in the high speed lane going ~80 in a 50. I began to follow the car (i assumed it was an officer) when he quickly pulled into the next lane, went behind me, before pulling me over!

He stated that he "set me up"! I will admit i was speeding, but SO WAS HE! And i was behind him the whole time, with a few car lengths between us. He stated to me, "What if i was on an emergency call and started going 100, would you follow me then?" I didn't really have an answer to that.

My reasoning is that if he's on an emergency call, he should have his police lights on and sirens blasting.

So bottom line, he gave me a ticket for going 60 in a 50 (he said i was really doing 80 with him) with the "clocked" checked-off on the ticket. It's an $85 fine, or i can go to court on Jan 8 2008! This is the same date i could have gone to court for the other one! I regret sending the payment for the other one; i could have made it a day thing 

I just think it's funny that officers can do whatever they want, while citicens have to pay... My tax dollars at work.

BTW i was driving back from seeing the movie "American Gangster" -sort of ironic.

I think i may try to fight this one. The whole time, i was behind him, NEVER in front. Do i have a case?

Like i said before... take it to court... and why on earth would you play keep up with a cop... they can speed... they're not the one who is gonna get ticketed... they can also say they proved your speed by pacing you... You don't really have much of a case but maybe they'll offer you a littering ticket or something instead... i hope you're not racking up the points.... also don't you find it annoying when someone starts following you? imagine how the guy with the gun feels when you start following behind him... now that you paid the first ticket you already have a conviction on your license for speeding and the courts will be less likely to give you anything.

[smooth1]

Ok, if I were you now, I would put a governor on your motor and set it for 54 miles an hour, and find a new way home!!!! Dayum!!!! 2 tickets in 2 weeks for the same thing? On the same road? I might even consider painting the fleet urban camoflauge and just lay low. LOL!!

How does the driving penalty system work in RI? I mean, here in Florida, they have traffic school. If you get a ticket, and you elect traffic school, then they reduce the fine, you go to the class, prove you passed, and you get no points and it's not on your driving record. You can only attend the class once a year, and 5 times total in a life time. If you don't take the class, then you pay the fine and get points put on your driving record, like I think speeding is 2 or 3 points. Once you get to 12 you lose your liscence, and they take 1 point off every year that you don't have any other tickets. Just curious as I know that it differs from state to state.

It's a shame you already paid the first one. You could have went to court and got made a deal to pay one and drop the other. Now your gonna look bad because of the first ticket.

[SW03ES]

Dude, you deserve whatever you get. Getting a speeding ticket twice in a week at the same spot? Its a miracle you still have a license. All the signs were there! Undercover car pulls out from the side of the road, why would you keep up with it?

It may surprise you to know that police have a myriad of codes for how to respond to certain types of calls, and some of them specify no lights and no sirens. Police are also allowed to break the speed limit in order to catch speeders, which is what he did to you. If they couldn't speed to catch a speeder you could have outran him at 51 right?

You need to wise up about this. Theres speeding and then theres speeding. 80 in a 50 is just too fast, 30 over is reckless driving in MD. Had you been going 70 I bet he would have left you alone, and giving you a ticket for 60 was a gift...

You need to learn how to speed inteligently. Read the road ahead of you, stay below a certain threshold. When a car you easily identify as an undercover cop pulls out from the side of the road, give it some room. This was not bad luck, this was dumb.

[raymsixsix]

Lexkid, I think you're goin to be paying for the this ticket also and moving on a little wiser than before (hopefully). You just paid for the other ticket admitting guilt, so your chances of taking this to court and proving your case that you're not guilty of speeding, or that your speeding was justified just because the unmarked cop car was speeding, I think is next to impossible. So from now on, I'd find a new way to go home, or make sure and not speed through that obvious speed trap. Lemme guess, it was the same cop that pulled you over last time? :D I bet you're one of the jokes going around the station/office. Good luck bud LOL.

[nc211]

Dear Santa,

Please disregard the Red-rider BB gun with the compass in the stock, and replace it with a bus pass and new 10-speed bicycle.

LexKid, what in the world!?!? I hate to say it, but it's looking like you're screwed on this one Bubba' since you paid the first one w/o trying to contest it. By paying the 1st one, and now in-light of this new one, you're basically telling the court that "yeah, I was speeding, so what, here's your fine money, it ain't gonna stop me". Your insurance rates are going to get a bit pricey now. But, I don't think that is of major concern for you. However, I want to point something out that should be of concern; the future.... If you're in a minor fender-bender in the near future, the other guys' lawyer will see that you have a spotted record, and can most likely use that against you if you're in a situation to defend yourself. THAT is where a traffic record can come back to bite you in the tail.

I'd call a lawyer for advice at this point. The only way I could see a possible shred of possiblity of you getting out of this one is if you supena the black-box recording in the cop's car "assuming it was on", and you can hear him say he "set you up". A slicked-back attorney could possibly use that as leverage to reduce the ticket, under the entrapment laws. But, it's highly doubtful. It doesn't matter if you're behind him, beside him, above or below, they have radar in the back window, and using "pace" as a method to judge your speed is acceptable, although subjective to the cop's opinion. Having paid the 1st ticket already, it'll be highly unlikely that a judge will believe you, over the cop's testimony.

[djspawn00]

Dear Santa,

Please disregard the Red-rider BB gun with the compass in the stock, and replace it with a bus pass and new 10-speed bicycle.

LexKid, what in the world!?!? I hate to say it, but it's looking like you're screwed on this one Bubba' since you paid the first one w/o trying to contest it. By paying the 1st one, and now in-light of this new one, you're basically telling the court that "yeah, I was speeding, so what, here's your fine money, it ain't gonna stop me". Your insurance rates are going to get a bit pricey now. But, I don't think that is of major concern for you. However, I want to point something out that should be of concern; the future.... If you're in a minor fender-bender in the near future, the other guys' lawyer will see that you have a spotted record, and can most likely use that against you if you're in a situation to defend yourself. THAT is where a traffic record can come back to bite you in the tail.

I'd call a lawyer for advice at this point. The only way I could see a possible shred of possiblity of you getting out of this one is if you supena the black-box recording in the cop's car "assuming it was on", and you can hear him say he "set you up". A slicked-back attorney could possibly use that as leverage to reduce the ticket, under the entrapment laws. But, it's highly doubtful. It doesn't matter if you're behind him, beside him, above or below, they have radar in the back window, and using "pace" as a method to judge your speed is acceptable, although subjective to the cop's opinion. Having paid the 1st ticket already, it'll be highly unlikely that a judge will believe you, over the cop's testimony.

so... nc... how many high speed police chases have you been in??? You seem to speak from experience here! On a seperate but related note... if an unmarked car is tailgating you and you speed up can that be considered entrapment? I'm just curious, the cop never came to trail and the ticket was dismissed but I was wondering if i had a chance.

[lenore]

Boy lexkid, That was not smart, I hope you plead moment of insanity, I like your posts, and hate tickets as well, but having a son and daughter as cops, i see both sides of the isle, and they have a tough job, and sometimes the ticket thing is one I personally hate, but please remember all of the good and so much crap they put up with. Also remember that many of them are asked to do things that the Sargent requires, whether they like it or not. And yes in the case of a minor few it is a power complex. But speeding is dangerous, we have all been there, but there are outlets for it in clubs, tracks, etc. Most cops wont bother you for a few or 10 miles over, but the high speed ones can be very un-nerving to all on the road. Good luck, sorry, but everyone is right, the insurance is going to go up, and the record is stuck, unless you have the option of drivers school like here in California. Chalk it up to to a bump in the road and move on. By the way I hope you and your family have a great Christmas.

[RX in NC]

LexKid,

If I remember correctly, you're a former surgeon who is now a pharmacist....

All I can say is that I would never let you cut on me or fill any of our household's prescriptions. Oh, and you can ride with me anytime you need to, but you can never drive....