Hyundi Genesis

[Kennyr]

I parked my 91LS and drove a Hyundi Genesis today. This car is so much like my 91. It's the same size, rear wheel drive and no folding down rear seats. The one I drove was a V6 with 290 horses. It was very fast but other than that it felt pretty much like my car. 36k with no navigation. I really liked it but heck its pretty much the same car 18 years later. So once again I drove away in my car feeling like the new car I had test driven was no nicer than what I'm in already for almost nothing. It's going to be really hard to get me out of my Lexus. Tags are 35 bucks and insurance is 290 a year. My steering wheel is getting a little worn though after 170,000 miles. I treated her to a new pair of sheep skins this year so I guess I'm good for 8 more years. The first ones were not even worn out yet but a little crusty from fast food. I put them in my snow Trooper.

[1990LS400]

The Hyundai Genesis is a wonderful car with lots of up-to-date safety and convenience features. It is an individual decision on whether or not you think you need or want these features. My only beef with the Genesis is that one should not have to buy a $4,000 option package to get the self leveling HID headlights -- they should be standard. I'd buy a Hyundai -- I was favorably impressed with the Sonata we rented for about a week on vacation earlier this year.

I didn't know my now next door neighbor back then, but he and I both bought LS400s shortly after they were introduced in 1989. Back then, the LS had the latest in safety features. My neighbor and I finally sold our 90 LS400s in 2003 at about the same time and for the same reasons.

We both wanted features that our 1990 LS400s didn't have and which could not be added -- especially self leveling HID headlights. I would be driving my old 90 LS today if I could have brought its technology up-to-date.

My wife bought a Camry in 1998. It has side airbags and a passenger front airbag. For the next five years, I listened to her complain about the lack of these safety features in the 90 LS. My wife is a tiny thing (5' 1") and she was fearful of driving the 90 LS with its old style high power drivers side airbag. The 90 LS didn't even have traction control like her 98 Camry has. And the halogen headlights in her Camry are substantially better than the headlights in the 90 LS.

I didn't turn loose of my 90 LS400 because I wanted to -- I moved on because I needed to.

The first winter (2003) driving an LS with VSC and "snow mode" was eye opening. VSC seemed like a miracle in the snow and I could power-up hills in "snow mode" past 4WD SUVs spinning their wheels helplessly.

For the first time since 1990 when I parted with my Mercedes with its adjustable headlight beams, I could easily see while driving at night when my car was fully loaded -- no more headlights pointing at the treetops. I finally had decent brakes -- according to Road and Track, the 90-91 LS400 had the 2nd longest stopping distance from 60 mph of all cars they tested during those years.

The additional 2 1/2 inches of rear legroom in the 00 LS meant I didn't have to move the drivers seat forward so an adult could sit comfortably behind me. And, most importantly, my wife stop complaining about the lack of safety features.

At some point, we will likely replace our 00 LS for the same reasons we replaced the 90 LS. My wife has been complaining that her Camry doesn't have VSC and the latest side curtain air bags so its days with us are numbered.

Deciding when to move on to newer cars is a tough decision and one we carefully consider.

[nc211]

I was next to a Genesis this morning on my way in, my first look at it. And honestly, there is still something "missing" about it, as with all of Hyundi cars. I can't describe what it is, maybe the back design on how it slopes down around the trunk, or the wheels, or something. But there is something about Hyundi cars that just turn me off, something in their appearance. To me, in person, the Genesis doesn't appeal to me like it does on TV. Just something looks "cheap" to me in the stance of the car. The front end is definetly a MB ripoff though, no doubt about it. The one this morning was black, and in my mirrors, it looked just like a big MB. But from the rear quarter panel, it still looked like a Hyundi Sonata. The overall size of it too was a bit disappointing. It looked like a typical Honda Accord in size, not a full size luxury car.

All the toys that comes with it though, sure sounds nice. Honestly, Hyundi is the reason why our little Mazda 3 has such things as rain sensing wipers, trac control, computer, adjustable headlights, etc... They say it's so it can compete with Hyundi and like cars that offer a lot of features for cheap dollars. I must admit, I really like these little "toys" they put in.

[jcrome04]

I think it's a nice looking car. but like NC said....something's off.

It's nice from the front, but when you start walking around it, and looking at it from different angles. It just starts to look odd... then you get back to the front and it's beautiful again... and yes, MBZ rip off :D

MY next car (in a few years) will be an 04-05 LS430, the dark gray (with a green hue) color.

[smooth1]

I go to alot of different forums, Hyundai being one of them. Some things that keep coming up are the dash boards crack open in 2 or3 years, the suspension systems way behind the times, in fact even in the Motor trend review, they noted that the car was nice until you pushed the car a bit, and it all fell apart. Understeer all over the place, under sprung suspension kept bottoming out, (they even noted that if you were to have 4 or 5 passengers in the car at the same time, like say going to lunch or dinner and you hit a bump, the car would definatley bottom out. There were other issues that also seem to be a theme across the board for there model line up.

I do think however that eventually they will be a good car mfgr. They just won't be able to maintain that Hyundai Accent price line at the same time. For anyone to think that Lexus, or Acura and Infinity are just price margined out to be able to come in and undercut them is making a big mistake. When Lexus and Acura came onto the scene, MB and BMW had to drop thier prices by as much as 25% over the 5-10 years to remain competitive. But your talking about an unchallenged market. It's not like that anymore. So, beleive me when it is said, in order to offer a Lexus for a Hyundai price, you can bet there are shortcuts taken somewhere, even if you can't see them. and the biggest art of developing a Hyundai has been so far, hiding the shortcuts.

One other note, Hyundai has forgotten one huge factor that I think really should count alot more. For those of you "Smart car buyers" consider this, if you purchased a new Hyundai Genesis for lets just say $36,000.00 with all the bells and whistles, instead of a Lexus GS for $50,000.00. In 5 years the resale value alone would negate initial $12k savings and over the next 5 years would pull ahead in value, and you would have been driving a much better car the entire time. Hyundai has a value issue that they will not be able to change with the Genesis. It's going to be alot of years beefore that ever happens.

[GKLCPA]

I sat in a Gensis about a week ago and it's a nice car. i'd like to drive one to see what the deal is. I wouldn't discount the fact the Hyundai might get pretty competative with Lexus, but they'll need to create a separate division. They've come a long way in upping their quality

[lx470tuner]

I agree with Hyundai being a little off. I think it's because Hyundai is never fresh. The Genesis looks like a frankenstein to me. It has the MB front, infiniti M rear, the lincoln slope/side lines and all that is packages to emulate lexus ideal such as supple, quiet ride. Only thing "Hyundai" about the Genesis is cheap factor. Everything else is just copied from everyone else. Hyundai needs to wake up and realize that until they being out something unique about "Hyundai" badge other than being cheap, people will always think of Hyundai as cheap and not anything else.

[djspawn00]

people will always think of Hyundai as cheap and not anything else.

I've heard this saying before... probably from MB owners when lexus was spawned by toyota...

Hyundai did a good job with the Genesis as bland and generic as the styling may be... a new brand would give them a chance at having a better identity though.... I wonder what they would name it... Toyota went from Alexis to Lexus... I wonder where Hyundai may go.

[oarnura]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009-hyun...esis-46-review/

Truth about cars just gave the Genesis V8 a 5 star review.

"If Lexus pursued perfection, Hyundai got the patent."

"A car this affordable this good simply boggles the mind. But armchair analysts see the derivative sheetmetal and questionable Hyundai dealership experience going over as well as a !Removed! in church. Be that as it may, the Genesis 4.6 stands well on its merits.

Its amazing that a country that had its first democratically-held election when Toyota was building a pseudo-autobahn now makes a luxury sedan that runs with the class leaders for a fraction of the price. The Hyundai Genesis 4.6 is the car Lexus made in 1989, and the one Detroit killed decades ago.

"

[killerFatty]

I was next to a Genesis this morning on my way in, my first look at it. And honestly, there is still something "missing" about it, as with all of Hyundi cars. I can't describe what it is

I think it's a nice looking car. but like NC said....something's off.

I agree with Hyundai being a little off.

Something is off. It's QUALITY, or lack there of. In 10 years the LS460's will be running strong, but the Hyundi Genesis' will be needing all sorts of new parts and services. Cheap to buy and expensive to keep. Thats how Hyundi has been and will be. they are two year cars, and you get what you pay for.

[python]

the fact is u can not compare cars or companies when one has time tested proven they are in the top auto makers when one hasnt, i would never buy a car thats in its first years of production, wait 5 years down the road and see what kind of reviews this car is getting....but right now....hyundai and lexus shouls not be in the same paragraph much less the same sentence

[SW03ES]

These are all the same arguments everyone made about Lexus when the LS400 first came out too.

Wait and see.

Something is off. It's QUALITY, or lack there of. In 10 years the LS460's will be running strong, but the Hyundi Genesis' will be needing all sorts of new parts and services. Cheap to buy and expensive to keep. Thats how Hyundi has been and will be. they are two year cars, and you get what you pay for.

Again, so people were foolish to buy the first LS400, they should have paid way more for the "time tested" BMWs and Mercedes?

And show me where modern Hyundais have dependability issues? They've been doing very, very well.

Hyundai is a car company on the march upwards...Toyota is showing signs of a car company in decline. Look at all the quality issues with the new Lexus vehicles...

[smooth1]

I guess I just don't see why all the fuss. According to Hyundai, the Genesis compared to the Chrysler 300, Lexus ES 350, Pontiac G, and the Cadillac CTS V-6.

When I run the numbers, the Hyundai V6, fully loaded comes to an MSRP of $39,400.00 and the wheel locks and mats are an extra $150.00. The Lexus ES 350 fully loaded is $41,671.00 . Even the new G37 Journey with the technology package and performance tires is $41,361.00 Am I missing something? We're talking about a $2,200.00 difference. And in 5 years, which car is going be worth more? I fail to see the huge value in purchasing the Genesis.

[oarnura]

I guess I just don't see why all the fuss. According to Hyundai, the Genesis compared to the Chrysler 300, Lexus ES 350, Pontiac G, and the Cadillac CTS V-6.

When I run the numbers, the Hyundai V6, fully loaded comes to an MSRP of $39,400.00 and the wheel locks and mats are an extra $150.00. The Lexus ES 350 fully loaded is $41,671.00 . Even the new G37 Journey with the technology package and performance tires is $41,361.00 Am I missing something? We're talking about a $2,200.00 difference. And in 5 years, which car is going be worth more? I fail to see the huge value in purchasing the Genesis.

That's the same value proposition the LS400 had when it first came out. Toyota was not a luxury brand and Lexus was just being announced and they had to compete with Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes. It was much cheaper and had more luxury features.

The Genesis is slightly smaller than the LS 460. The 4.6 V8 gives it the same power as an LS 460. It costs 26K less fully loaded than the base LS.

Compared to a GS 460 which is base $53K. It is a down right bargain fully loaded with nav and the 4.6 V8 it costs $41.8 K.

So you get a car that drives like an LS is larger than the GS for cost of an ES 350. I think that is tremendous value.

The Genesis also comes with a better warranty.

Hyundai's have excellent reliability since 2004 on consumer reports. I have rented an 2007+ Elantra twice and it was very good.

For people that don't shop for a badge it offers tremendous value.

[smooth1]

That's the same value proposition the LS400 had when it first came out. Toyota was not a luxury brand and Lexus was just being announced and they had to compete with Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes. It was much cheaper and had more luxury features.

But Toyota was smart enouph to start Lexus, and try to make a Toyota LS 400 to compete with BMW or MB. Which has allowed Lexus to grow on it's own. The Genesis is going to suffer tremendously by the Hyundai name alone in residual value. You can't just look at and compare the retail price, you have to account for the trade in value or resale value later to get the full picture.

The Genesis is slightly smaller than the LS 460. The 4.6 V8 gives it the same power as an LS 460. It costs 26K less fully loaded than the base LS.

This is not how you compare cars. The Genesis is no LS. Not even to stretch the imagination. Nor is it a BMW 7 series, or a MB S class. You obviously haven't driven any of these.

And why haven't you compared the Genesis to the Chrysler 300? That car starts at 27K, and has a lifetime powertrain warrentee. And is the same size, and class vehicle.

Compared to a GS 460 which is base $53K. It is a down right bargain fully loaded with nav and the 4.6 V8 it costs $41.8 K.

And in 4-5 years, that GS, (look at 5 years ago to today to see what I'm saying here.) is going to be worth 10K more than the Genesis will be. So your bargain just flew out the window.

I'm not hating on Hyundai, I just think the media was paid to pump this car up, and alot of people have bought right into it.

And btw, the longer warrentee wasn't invented by Hyundai, you should talk to Lee Iacocca, formerly of Chrysler about that. He knew, and even admitted later they were turning out inferrior vehicles, so they slapped on a longer warrentee to help pump up sales and said they would just deal with the problems later.

[python]

let me know when the genisis has hit 300,000 or more miles on a regular basis...until then the car isnt even in the same league

[jcrome04]

hahaha! It will probably be so rattly, squeaky, and problematic at I bet not even 100k.

[oarnura]

But Toyota was smart enouph to start Lexus, and try to make a Toyota LS 400 to compete with BMW or MB. Which has allowed Lexus to grow on it's own. The Genesis is going to suffer tremendously by the Hyundai name alone in residual value. You can't just look at and compare the retail price, you have to account for the trade in value or resale value later to get the full picture.

I agree. However, in today's economy cars residual value is fairly meaningless. I test drove a 2003 Ls430 50Kmiles Nav, Mark Levinson, Cooled seats, CPO before I bought my LS 400. The dealer was asking 26K. Last week I checked and they dropped the CPO and had it up for $18,900. It finally sold.

I guarantee you a 2004 LS 430 won't fetch more than 15K trade-in.

This is not how you compare cars. The Genesis is no LS. Not even to stretch the imagination. Nor is it a BMW 7 series, or a MB S class. You obviously haven't driven any of these.

And why haven't you compared the Genesis to the Chrysler 300? That car starts at 27K, and has a lifetime powertrain warrentee. And is the same size, and class vehicle.

An LS in no 7-series or S-Class either. They all have their own driving characteristics that matter to their target market. Lexus is trying to make the LS a 7-Series but it is alienating its core market. Go read the complaints about the LS 460s ride quality from people that owned 400s and 430s.

Pull up the specs on an LS 460 and GS and tell me that the Gensis isn't close. The Genesis' build quality is far better than Chrysler's. There is no real value proposition with the 300C. You get a lot more for your money with the Genesis compared to a 300C. Why do you think Hyundai is comparing it to the Chrysler?

Chrysler might not even survive this down turn. They are already laying of 25% of their workforce.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/21/business/auto.php

"As of July, Hyundai had 3.2 percent of the U.S. auto market, the world's largest, and Krafcik said that would grow this year as the company takes sales from rivals amid an ongoing slump. Hyundai now ranks as the seventh-best-selling auto brand in the U.S. market, ahead of Chrysler.

Part of Hyundai's strategy is to reduce the share of American consumers who said they would never buy its cars, a category of consumers Krafcik called "active avoiders."

Hyundai's own research shows that the share of U.S. car buyers who have ruled out Hyundai dropped to 39 percent this year, down from 54 percent in 2005."

And in 4-5 years, that GS, (look at 5 years ago to today to see what I'm saying here.) is going to be worth 10K more than the Genesis will be. So your bargain just flew out the window.

There just isn't enough data to validate that statement. BTW I am comparing a base GS to a loaded Genesis 4.6. Add Nav, Rear sunshade etc and you are looking at $5-6K more on the GS.

So the difference comparably spec'ed is $16-$17K. So with even with your depreciation estimate you are ahead with a Genesis.

The GS comes with 342 HP vs 375 for the Genesis.

I'm not hating on Hyundai, I just think the media was paid to pump this car up, and alot of people have bought right into it.

And btw, the longer warrentee wasn't invented by Hyundai, you should talk to Lee Iacocca, formerly of Chrysler about that. He knew, and even admitted later they were turning out inferrior vehicles, so they slapped on a longer warrentee to help pump up sales and said they would just deal with the problems later.

In reality Consumer Reports data shows that a Hyundai 2002-Present has had better than average reliability rating. Chrysler doesn't.

Owner satisfaction survey's also rank Hyundai's much higher than Chrysler and fairly close to Toyotas.

CR Owner Satisfaction survey (percentage surveyed)

Small cars

Toyota Corolla 74 .

Toyota Yaris Hatchback* 73 .

Toyota Yaris Sedan* 69 .

Hyundai Elantra 68 .

Family cars

Toyota Camry 71

Hyundai Sonata 69

Chrysler Sebring Sedan 42

Median 69

Large Sedans

Toyota Avalon 79 .

Hyundai Azera 75 .

Chrysler 300 (V8) 70

Chrysler 300 (V6) RWD 56 .

I used to make fun of Hyundai but after having driven the new Elantra and talking to extremely satisfied customers, not to mention the raw data, I changed my opinion.

The bottom line is there is a perception about Hyundai and when it is coupled with brand loyal hyperbole that exists on forums we get threads like this.

I own a BMW and a Lexus and have owned a VW Jetta. I visit forums and see the same brand bashing going on. BMW/Mercedes owners bash the Japanese brands. The Japanese loyalists bash the German brands.

I try and take an objective view. I think the Genesis is positioned right for the market. People are pinching pennies. I must admit that there is a good chance the Genesis might also fail miserably. We'll have to see.

[DWNC]

I think the Genesis has a ways to go before it can be a real competitor, yet there is no doubt in my mind they will get there if that is what they want. I think a wise step would be to make safety a big issue. Now their primary issue seems to be price. If they get their customer service up to the standards I have experienced with Lexus that will be a step in the right direction too.

After twenty years of belonging to the German camp I am finished. The last straw was the unacceptable side impact crash test results of the new Mercedes and BMW. The results are shameful for cars of that price range and with their pedigrees. I have been impressed with the ownership experience a friend of mine has had with an A8.

The important factors for me when considering a car are safety and comfort. Fit and finish is also an important factor. Image is not a selling point for me.

It will be interesting to watch the Genesis develop just as it was with Lexus.

David

[smooth1]

The Genesis' build quality is far better than Chrysler's. There is no real value proposition with the 300C. You get a lot more for your money with the Genesis compared to a 300C. Why do you think Hyundai is comparing it to the Chrysler?

the same consumer report you quoted from has the Chrysler 300 a CR recommendation. It has actually had as good a reliability history as any of the Hyundai line up.

I'm sorry, but the type of car buyer that would be looking at spending 36-40K in the first place, would never buy a car from a sheet of paper. It's done when metal touches skin. And maybe it's just me, but I think I would take a Chrysler 300C or SRT over a Hyundai Genesis any day of the week! I would also love the new 2009 Cadillac CTS over the Genesis.

Never mind this pidly comparison stuff, go to a car site like auto trader and put in, sedans between 36-40K. I get this:

Cadillac CTS ( I really think they have come a long way with this car and it's current design.)

Infinity G series ( Another great car with a very solid reliability background. And it's sooo hot looking!)

Lexus IS ( I should just not comment on this one as it would be completely biased and unfair.)

Volvo S80 ( The new design is getting better.)

Volvo S60 (This is the Volvo to have. Great motor and drivetrain. This car is built to haul the family around in for along time. And it looks cool, yet family mannered)

Acura TL ( Another proven performer. Acura has really established itself with consistancy over the years.)

BMW 328i ( The weekend drivers car. Long history and evolution. Theres actually alot to connect with.)

Mercedes Benz C300 ( Nothing like saying "I drive a Mercedes Benz." And it actually does look like a nice car.)

Chrysler 300( Hugely american, oh so loved by many from afar. This car has allways appealed to my darker side. And I can still take mom to a resturaunt in it with out hearing about it.!)

Hyundia Genesis ( I honestly have no love for this car. I don't hate it either, it's just numb. I doesn't look bad, it's just not identifiable.)

So if I went to each of these car lots, and test drove them and started putting it all together, on my list anyway, it would look just like the one I put above. And if I coudn't choose the Lexus, off the list, I would have a hard time choosing between the BMW 328i, the Cadillac CTS, maybe an Audi A4. And we haven't even discuseed 1-2 year old used car options. Suddenly a BMW 5 is within reach, and a whole slew of others that have tons to offer come up to the table.

[oarnura]

the same consumer report you quoted from has the Chrysler 300 a CR recommendation. It has actually had as good a reliability history as any of the Hyundai line up.

Not they don't recommend the 300. Here is the summary from CRs website:

"The Chrysler 300 wasn't a standout in our testing. The 300C was very quick, but fuel economy suffered even when cruising, despite the cylinder-deactivation system. Handling is sound but not exceptional. The ride in the Touring is supple and controlled, but the 300C is stiff. Interior materials are just acceptable in this class. The claustrophobic cabin and limited outward visibility are detractions. IIHS crash-test results were poor when tested without the optional side air bags. A long-wheelbase version is available. Reliability of the V8 has been average, but the car scores too low to be recommended."

A Hyundai Azera, Sonata are recommended by CR.

I'm sorry, but the type of car buyer that would be looking at spending 36-40K in the first place, would never buy a car from a sheet of paper. It's done when metal touches skin. And maybe it's just me, but I think I would take a Chrysler 300C or SRT over a Hyundai Genesis any day of the week! I would also love the new 2009 Cadillac CTS over the Genesis.

So you would pick a sports biased sedan over a purely luxury car.

Never mind this pidly comparison stuff, go to a car site like auto trader and put in, sedans between 36-40K. I get this:

Cadillac CTS ( I really think they have come a long way with this car and it's current design.)

Infinity G series ( Another great car with a very solid reliability background. And it's sooo hot looking!)

Lexus IS ( I should just not comment on this one as it would be completely biased and unfair.)

Volvo S80 ( The new design is getting better.)

Volvo S60 (This is the Volvo to have. Great motor and drivetrain. This car is built to haul the family around in for along time. And it looks cool, yet family mannered)

Acura TL ( Another proven performer. Acura has really established itself with consistancy over the years.)

BMW 328i ( The weekend drivers car. Long history and evolution. Theres actually alot to connect with.)

Mercedes Benz C300 ( Nothing like saying "I drive a Mercedes Benz." And it actually does look like a nice car.)

Chrysler 300( Hugely american, oh so loved by many from afar. This car has allways appealed to my darker side. And I can still take mom to a resturaunt in it with out hearing about it.!)

Hyundia Genesis ( I honestly have no love for this car. I don't hate it either, it's just numb. I doesn't look bad, it's just not identifiable.)

That is a very Apples to Oranges list. Different size classes, sports sedans, luxury sedans.. etc. Most people don't say I have price range I'll just pick which ever 4 door sedan fits.

The bottom line is your biggest objection to the Genesis is the Hyundai badge. I already said earlier badge not withstanding the car offers a tremendous value.

In october,

Toyota sales:

http://www.clublexus.com/index.php?option=...&Itemid=155

"The GS luxury sport sedan reported combined October sales of 819 units."

http://au.sys-con.com/node/733951

"*GENESIS 1,121" up 8.9% since september

Chrysler doesn't break out the 300's number with the higherend versions. The base 300 is 21K. So it is safe to say more of the base sedans are selling. Also these are 2008 models sales at deeply discounted prices. Sales are down 62% year over year.

300 3,415 8,923 -62%

C-Class numbers are 4,595 down 39% YoY.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Mercedes-Ben...own-34-3-36958/

In a terrible market, when sales of established badges are trending down the newly introduced Genesis' numbers are trending up.

That doesn't mean much long term but it does show how people are perceiving the Genesis.

[smooth1]

I'm looking right at the report and it has a big check mark in the corner with CR recommended in bright red.

And as for the sales history, most car mfgrs are down right now in car sales. That's no surprise, and of course the luxury brands are going to feel the initial brunt the most. That has nothing to do with the car itself.

So you would pick a sports biased sedan over a purely luxury car.

I wouldn't say the 300 is a sports sedan, but whatever. I do tend to like performance, which is what Hyundai is promoting with the "375 hp V8 Tau motor. No? I mean if it had a 275 hp. V6 and a 5 speed auto, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation as it would be relegated to the Honda Accord, Toyota Camery class then.

That is a very Apples to Oranges list. Different size classes, sports sedans, luxury sedans.. etc. Most people don't say I have price range I'll just pick which ever 4 door sedan fits.

No, you mean that's not how car magazines do comparisons. I'm a real person, with a real budget. And yes people do look for cars like this. Most people going in have a either a total price they can afford, or a monthly payment they are looking to stay under. And the first thing they do is look at whats in that price range. I don't know anyone that selects a car based on some class qualification assigned by a magazine.

The bottom line is your biggest objection to the Genesis is the Hyundai badge. I already said earlier badge not withstanding the car offers a tremendous value.

Not at all. I'm not really influenced by name much at all. I am influenced by what I know about Hyundai's history, it's perceived place in the market, and the car in front of me at the time. Even though they are getting better, I know they are producing better cars then before. I know the Azera and Sonata are becoming and evolving into a pretty descent looking car as well as a better build. It's just not about that. It's about "perceived value and desire". I just don't put the Genesis on a "desired car " list. And if I'm spending 36-40K on a car, it's not just about being "budget minded" anymore. I want a car that fulfills my desire as well. I drive by a Hyundai dealership everyday on my way home from the shop. I see it up on thier raised platform and the big spotlight on it. From just looking a the car, I even like the look of the Chevy Malibu over the Genesis. I just might stop in this week and test drive a Genesis for myself and see. I have driven alot of cars. In fact, of the list I put up, I have driven every one of those cars, 2007 and newer. I think it would be you who is changed if you drove all those as well. I think you would see the point I'm trying to make much better atleast.

[SW03ES]

Anyone who says they would take a 300C over a Genesis has never sat in or driven either car.

The 300 is a...terrible...car. Awful material quality, weird control placements. Rattles. Its a good looking car, and is truly a car that looks good on paper, but its has zero staying power and thats shown in its sales.

I think Hyundai's mistake was not promoting a luxury brand and making the Genesis the poster car for the brand. I think that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the American consumer works.

Most Lexus, BMW, Mercedes driver would be very hard pressed to buy a Hyundai. I would be very hard pressed to buy a Hyundai, or a Toyota or Honda. I just like driving luxury cars.

However, the Genesis really is an excellent car and an excellent value and I do honestly believe that they're going to handily eclipse Toyota in the quality department if they stay on the same track and Toyota stays on the same track.

I would buy a Hyundai Genesis over an Avalon for instance without even hesitating.

Again, like I said...wait and see. The only argument against this car is that its a Hyundai, otherwise its a fantastic car.

[oarnura]

I'm looking right at the report and it has a big check mark in the corner with CR recommended in bright red.

And as for the sales history, most car mfgrs are down right now in car sales. That's no surprise, and of course the luxury brands are going to feel the initial brunt the most. That has nothing to do with the car itself.

The online version of CR, which I think is more current, doesn't. HYundai is down too but the Genesis sales are up. If it were a failure they wouldn't be selling so many.

I wouldn't say the 300 is a sports sedan, but whatever. I do tend to like performance, which is what Hyundai is promoting with the "375 hp V8 Tau motor. No? I mean if it had a 275 hp. V6 and a 5 speed auto, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation as it would be relegated to the Honda Accord, Toyota Camery class then.

You said 300c and SRT. Those are the sportier versions of the 300. Most of the cars on your list don't offer a V8 in their price range. Like I said you are really comparing Apple's and Oranges.

No, you mean that's not how car magazines do comparisons. I'm a real person, with a real budget. And yes people do look for cars like this. Most people going in have a either a total price they can afford, or a monthly payment they are looking to stay under. And the first thing they do is look at whats in that price range. I don't know anyone that selects a car based on some class qualification assigned by a magazine.

Sorry to disagree. I find it very hard to believe that if I lined up a 3 series, S80 and a Genesis, any one would sit in one and say they are comparable in anything other than price. Size, rear leg room and trunk space are in wildly different categories.

It's about "perceived value and desire". I just don't put the Genesis on a "desired car " list. And if I'm spending 36-40K on a car, it's not just about being "budget minded" anymore. I want a car that fulfills my desire as well. I drive by a Hyundai dealership everyday on my way home from the shop. I see it up on thier raised platform and the big spotlight on it. From just looking a the car, I even like the look of the Chevy Malibu over the Genesis. I just might stop in this week and test drive a Genesis for myself and see. I have driven alot of cars. In fact, of the list I put up, I have driven every one of those cars, 2007 and newer. I think it would be you who is changed if you drove all those as well. I think you would see the point I'm trying to make much better atleast.

I see the point you are trying to make. You and I buy cars on how they make us feel. I get that. However, most don't. Most people out there buy a car differently. I honestly don't think anyone finds a Camry desirable in the way you find an A4 desirable.

The bottom line is a Genesis is a good car and offers good value. I may not be for you but that doesn't mean its not for others. The only argument you have made against the Geneis is why buy a Hyundai for 36-40K when you can buy other cars for that much that are not Hyundais.