Brakes/brake Pads

[Ira d]

I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.).

So, are you implying that the Toyota will be of better quality than the Lexus? Do you think that they actually downgraded the radio/cd player from the previous model to this model? And it is worse than what they put in a Toyota? Can you confirm that? And the OEM tires, are they a Toyota product (what does OEM mean)? Yes, there have been transmission issues and yes, it could be attributed to the new model year.

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign.

Two things can be attributed to the product redesign with your vehicle, the parking assist is one. I don't think that was available in the ES330 (can anyone confirm that?). And the transmission problems, the engine was upgraded from the 3.3 to a 3.5, and along with that came a new 6 speed transmission.

And Ira's brake wear issue may be attributed to the same thing, but this is something that can be corrected with replacement.

I worked at GM, I have talked to engineers that worked on plant floors and to employees at all levels. I know GM is not Toyota, but it is a very real phenomenon that when a new line comes out, issues abound. But, not all cars display the issues. At some point things get corrected, but the best time to buy a new line is after the first year. Toyota is not imune to this, it is impossible to completely test a vehicle the same way general consumers would use them.

In recent years in is more common to see a manuafactor down grade component to increase

profits. Most car by the time they reach the showroom have had at least five years of development

and have had prototypes that are almost just like the car that will be available for sale on the

road for two years. That being said if it was not for trying to increase profits on the new models

98% of the problems these cars have would never appear in the first place.

[BaddBoi70]

I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.).

So, are you implying that the Toyota will be of better quality than the Lexus? Do you think that they actually downgraded the radio/cd player from the previous model to this model? And it is worse than what they put in a Toyota? Can you confirm that? And the OEM tires, are they a Toyota product (what does OEM mean)? Yes, there have been transmission issues and yes, it could be attributed to the new model year.

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign.

Two things can be attributed to the product redesign with your vehicle, the parking assist is one. I don't think that was available in the ES330 (can anyone confirm that?). And the transmission problems, the engine was upgraded from the 3.3 to a 3.5, and along with that came a new 6 speed transmission.

And Ira's brake wear issue may be attributed to the same thing, but this is something that can be corrected with replacement.

I worked at GM, I have talked to engineers that worked on plant floors and to employees at all levels. I know GM is not Toyota, but it is a very real phenomenon that when a new line comes out, issues abound. But, not all cars display the issues. At some point things get corrected, but the best time to buy a new line is after the first year. Toyota is not imune to this, it is impossible to completely test a vehicle the same way general consumers would use them.

AZ08LexusES,

As a consumer, I trusted Lexus' past reliability based on their past laurels (mistake on my part). As evidenced by many of the posts on this site, the ES 350 is not being viewed as a success story, quite the contrary! I am hoping that my CD player is an isolated incident; however, I have NEVER had any issues with prior Toyota or Honda stock CD/Stereo head units not working. I would hope that Toyota would NOT downgrade their equipment for their luxury line (Lexus). Again, my 1st impression as a new Lexus owner has been poor. I am not sure I would purchase another Lexus at this time, due to the issues I have had in my ES 350. That is my opinion, which was formed by my purchase of an 07 ES 350!

The overall quality of the vehicle is simply not what people have come to expect from the Lexus line. As for the tires, I have never owned a Toyota or Honda product in which the OEM tires were worn out at 20K miles! This was a very poor choice by Lexus. Yes, they corrected the transmission issue, but you can NOT tell me that something this major got past the "testing" conducted by Lexus. The brake issue is also not what Ira expected from Lexus. With the advent of the internet, you can very easily look up OEM and its meaning, but if not, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer

As for your past employemnt at GM, no offense, but there is a reason why Toyota will take over as the leader of total vehicles sold worldwide! The big three in America have become a casualty of the American Labor Unions and the lack of producing a quality vehicle :(

[SW03ES]

The new Michelin Primacy MXV4's have a 620 treadwear Steve lol....just thought I would mention that. ;)

Do they? I'd be concerned about that.

[AZ08LexusES]

Ira, have you ever driven a prototype? I have... Prototypes are not manufactured in an assembly line and the parts used are normally either specially made for that prototype or borrowed from other models and/or prototypes. Wires are visibly seen in the unfinished interiors. They will not have stereos. I imagine the parking assist may have stopped working, but if you jiggle that wire again, bingo! By the time employees get to drive them and give their comments, a fleet of them had been built. These were extremely close to what the final product is going to be and you can bet, the manufacturing and assembly kinks have not been worked out. Herein lies the problem, manufacturing and assembly has not started yet. You cannot anticipate issues that may happen once that starts. And, if one of your parts vendors, you know OEM, had an undetected issue, your car will have that undetected issue. Happens all the time with all makes and models. And, with new models, the cost per unit may have gone up, so to increase profits, or even keep them the same, price per unit may go up also.

I have said this before, I am really sorry that your car did not meet your expectations. But don't tell me that because I own one that mine is crappy too!

[AZ08LexusES]

I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.).

So, are you implying that the Toyota will be of better quality than the Lexus? Do you think that they actually downgraded the radio/cd player from the previous model to this model? And it is worse than what they put in a Toyota? Can you confirm that? And the OEM tires, are they a Toyota product (what does OEM mean)? Yes, there have been transmission issues and yes, it could be attributed to the new model year.

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign.

Two things can be attributed to the product redesign with your vehicle, the parking assist is one. I don't think that was available in the ES330 (can anyone confirm that?). And the transmission problems, the engine was upgraded from the 3.3 to a 3.5, and along with that came a new 6 speed transmission.

And Ira's brake wear issue may be attributed to the same thing, but this is something that can be corrected with replacement.

I worked at GM, I have talked to engineers that worked on plant floors and to employees at all levels. I know GM is not Toyota, but it is a very real phenomenon that when a new line comes out, issues abound. But, not all cars display the issues. At some point things get corrected, but the best time to buy a new line is after the first year. Toyota is not imune to this, it is impossible to completely test a vehicle the same way general consumers would use them.

AZ08LexusES,

As a consumer, I trusted Lexus' past reliability based on their past laurels (mistake on my part). As evidenced by many of the posts on this site, the ES 350 is not being viewed as a success story, quite the contrary! I am hoping that my CD player is an isolated incident; however, I have NEVER had any issues with prior Toyota or Honda stock CD/Stereo head units not working. I would hope that Toyota would NOT downgrade their equipment for their luxury line (Lexus). Again, my 1st impression as a new Lexus owner has been poor. I am not sure I would purchase another Lexus at this time, due to the issues I have had in my ES 350. That is my opinion, which was formed by my purchase of an 07 ES 350!

The overall quality of the vehicle is simply not what people have come to expect from the Lexus line. As for the tires, I have never owned a Toyota or Honda product in which the OEM tires were worn out at 20K miles! This was a very poor choice by Lexus. Yes, they corrected the transmission issue, but you can NOT tell me that something this major got past the "testing" conducted by Lexus. The brake issue is also not what Ira expected from Lexus. With the advent of the internet, you can very easily look up OEM and its meaning, but if not, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer

As for your past employemnt at GM, no offense, but there is a reason why Toyota will take over as the leader of total vehicles sold worldwide! The big three in America have become a casualty of the American Labor Unions and the lack of producing a quality vehicle :(

Badboi, I too trusted Lexus' past laurels. BTW, my wife's 99 Honda Accord had an issue with the stock CD Player as well. I did not trash the brand for that. The tires my 00 Honda Accord were the same as the ones I got on the ES. Honda made the same decision as Lexus, and back in 2000! They were not bad, lasted longer than 20K. And, I can guarantee you that the transmission issue got past the testing. It costs more to fix something after you have manufactured it than before. It affects the profitability. If all the pre-manufacturing vehicles made displayed this issue, they would have corrected it then. But, I know you know that. And, BTW, my question about OEM was rhetorical. I was talking about tires, I know Toyota did not make them...

Oh, thanks for the tip on the internet, maybe I'll start using it from now on. And P.S. for future reference, Wikipedia is not always the most reliable source for information. People mess with it all the time.

[HLUCKOFF]

So you're right, high quality doesn't always mean longer life. For instance I would never put a set of tires on a Lexus with more than a 400 treadwear rating because they wouldn't deliver the ride that I bought the Lexus for.

The new Michelin Primacy MXV4's have a 620 treadwear Steve lol....just thought I would mention that. ;)

I have the Energy MXV4's on my 2008 and they say 440 treadwear, but the Primacy MXV4's do say 620 and have a 60,000 mile warranty. My CLK 320 MB has Continentals and they were replaced at a little over 20,000 miles on the rear.

[Ira d]

Ira, have you ever driven a prototype? I have... Prototypes are not manufactured in an assembly line and the parts used are normally either specially made for that prototype or borrowed from other models and/or prototypes. Wires are visibly seen in the unfinished interiors. They will not have stereos. I imagine the parking assist may have stopped working, but if you jiggle that wire again, bingo! By the time employees get to drive them and give their comments, a fleet of them had been built. These were extremely close to what the final product is going to be and you can bet, the manufacturing and assembly kinks have not been worked out. Herein lies the problem, manufacturing and assembly has not started yet. You cannot anticipate issues that may happen once that starts. And, if one of your parts vendors, you know OEM, had an undetected issue, your car will have that undetected issue. Happens all the time with all makes and models. And, with new models, the cost per unit may have gone up, so to increase profits, or even keep them the same, price per unit may go up also.

I have said this before, I am really sorry that your car did not meet your expectations. But don't tell me that because I own one that mine is crappy too!

To AZ08

No I have never driven a prototype but I have seen them and I agree with your description of

them. Also I did not say your car is crap I have never seen your car, What I did say in answer

to question that was asked about brakes was that the 07ES brakes were poor quailty and that

just happens to be the way it is.

Maybe Lexus will improve their brakes I do hope so. Also im not the only one saying so but

the ball was dropped on the 07 ES and I know its not all due glitching in the start up of the

assembly process but instead due to Lexus looking for a cheaper way to build the car IMO

Everyone else is free to think what may about their car and I dont have a problem with that

however im also free to think what I want about mine. BTW I work in a technical field so I

have some insight into engineering and manufacturing so im not just blowing smoke up

anyones leg. Anyway im done with this subject.

[Lexusfreak]

It's also important to mention (sometimes it does get forgotton) that the vehicle is under full factory warranty & any defects in materials & workmanship will be taken care of. Get your issues resolved & enjoy! ;)

[mhawkin1]

Ira D - you have been done with this subject like 16 times now! :)

[AZ08LexusES]

As for your past employemnt at GM, no offense, but there is a reason why Toyota will take over as the leader of total vehicles sold worldwide! The big three in America have become a casualty of the American Labor Unions and the lack of producing a quality vehicle :(

So now you're attacking labor unions! Here's an illuminating point, the Camry and the Accord is assembled in the good Ol' US of A by, you guessed it, UAW! The measuring stick of quality that all other manufacturers were trying to attain, put together here. And, more than 50% of the parts are US made. Now, not all of the Camrys and Accords are assembled in the US, My 00 Honda Accord Coupe was made in Japan, but my 99 Accord Sedan was. The way to tell is when you look at the VIN number, if it starts with a 1 it was US built and if it starts with a 'J', well you know.

Anyway, who are you trying not to offend? I am on this forum because I drive a Lexus, not GM... I like my brakes, I hope they last what they are supposed to. Or else Lexus will have to forfeit a bit of their profits in replacing them under warranty.

[SW03ES]

What I did say in answer

to question that was asked about brakes was that the 07ES brakes were poor quailty and that

just happens to be the way it is.

If thats a fact...then why hasn't everyone had to replace their brakes at 10k miles?

Your experience is your experience, it is not "a fact".

[BaddBoi70]

As for your past employemnt at GM, no offense, but there is a reason why Toyota will take over as the leader of total vehicles sold worldwide! The big three in America have become a casualty of the American Labor Unions and the lack of producing a quality vehicle :(

So now you're attacking labor unions! Here's an illuminating point, the Camry and the Accord is assembled in the good Ol' US of A by, you guessed it, UAW! The measuring stick of quality that all other manufacturers were trying to attain, put together here. And, more than 50% of the parts are US made. Now, not all of the Camrys and Accords are assembled in the US, My 00 Honda Accord Coupe was made in Japan, but my 99 Accord Sedan was. The way to tell is when you look at the VIN number, if it starts with a 1 it was US built and if it starts with a 'J', well you know.

Anyway, who are you trying not to offend? I am on this forum because I drive a Lexus, not GM... I like my brakes, I hope they last what they are supposed to. Or else Lexus will have to forfeit a bit of their profits in replacing them under warranty.

AZ08 -

This is a forum and as many people have stated, "It is MY opinion". You may choose to read it or not to read it. You may choose to reply or choose not to. You may agree with me or not. My father works for John Deere and is a proud member of the union! I intimately understand the faults of our labor unions here in America! I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating MY opinion.

My brakes are currently functioning properly. But, I have had other issues that again, based on Lexus' past performance is a complete let down for me - MY opinion.

Thanks for the VIN info; however, I was already aware of the distinction.

[AZ08LexusES]

As for your past employemnt at GM, no offense, but there is a reason why Toyota will take over as the leader of total vehicles sold worldwide! The big three in America have become a casualty of the American Labor Unions and the lack of producing a quality vehicle :(

So now you're attacking labor unions! Here's an illuminating point, the Camry and the Accord is assembled in the good Ol' US of A by, you guessed it, UAW! The measuring stick of quality that all other manufacturers were trying to attain, put together here. And, more than 50% of the parts are US made. Now, not all of the Camrys and Accords are assembled in the US, My 00 Honda Accord Coupe was made in Japan, but my 99 Accord Sedan was. The way to tell is when you look at the VIN number, if it starts with a 1 it was US built and if it starts with a 'J', well you know.

Anyway, who are you trying not to offend? I am on this forum because I drive a Lexus, not GM... I like my brakes, I hope they last what they are supposed to. Or else Lexus will have to forfeit a bit of their profits in replacing them under warranty.

AZ08 -

This is a forum and as many people have stated, "It is MY opinion". You may choose to read it or not to read it. You may choose to reply or choose not to. You may agree with me or not. My father works for John Deere and is a proud member of the union! I intimately understand the faults of our labor unions here in America! I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating MY opinion.

My brakes are currently functioning properly. But, I have had other issues that again, based on Lexus' past performance is a complete let down for me - MY opinion.

Thanks for the VIN info; however, I was already aware of the distinction.

Baddboi, when I asked who were you trying not to offend, it was because you were talking about my previous employment with GM and you threw in the 'no offense' statement in there. My way of saying no offense taken because I don't drive a GM.

At any rate, it is well documented that the downfall of the big three, especially GM, was that they got so big and diversified, that leadership took their eye off of their main business, which was making cars. They made everything from bullets to satellites. While not paying attention to the auto, they let things slip, and hungry companies like Toyota, Nissan, and Honda surpassed in quality and took a great chunk of market share. Yes, there were issues with labor unions and when a quick turn around was necessary, negotiations were very difficult. Although GM had improved in the quality of their car lines and got rid of Hughes and other companies that had nothing to do do with the auto industry, there was already a stigma in the market that the Japanese cars were just better. A stigma that still exists, and perhaps because it still may be true but the gap should be closer. So, in part, I do agree with you, labor unions had their hand in the issues, but the leadership had a lot to do with it as well.

Also, had I had the experience that you have had so far, I would probably not be happy Lexus either. And since that was your first impression, it will be very hard for Lexus to overcome that. Hopefully they will do things right for you and honor their warranties and commitments to quality.

[JGTNewLexusOwner]

Ok, Ok, now everyone lets have a group hug and sing Kumbaya! Seriously, I appreciate everyone's honest opinion on this forum. An opinion is in the eye of the beholder and is not necessarily right or wrong. But the honesty here is great! We all have one issue or another and as I think I can state for everyone, issues with Lexus' are more of an issue because we all have heard great things. But, as the Toyota CEO said in a recent interview with Business Week, the problems of growing is hurting the Toyota/Lexus quality. But we all still have our Lexus' and hope they keep going and that the issues are resolved!!!

Hey Lexusfreak, one question....I heard the Michelin's are the best tire to get for our ES350s....I have Bridgestones on mine now but looking to the future as to the best one's to get next. Opinions?

[Lexusfreak]

Hey Lexusfreak, one question....I heard the Michelin's are the best tire to get for our ES350s....I have Bridgestones on mine now but looking to the future as to the best one's to get next. Opinions?

Michelin's are definately one of the best choices depending on what your looking for in an all season tire JGT.....having said that, pretty much anything is better than the OE Bridgestone's that were factory equipped on our ES's. There are other very good choices as well, again.....depending on what one is looking for in a replacement tire. :)

[JGTNewLexusOwner]

Hey Lexusfreak, one question....I heard the Michelin's are the best tire to get for our ES350s....I have Bridgestones on mine now but looking to the future as to the best one's to get next. Opinions?

Michelin's are definately one of the best choices depending on what your looking for in an all season tire JGT.....having said that, pretty much anything is better than the OE Bridgestone's that were factory equipped on our ES's. There are other very good choices as well, again.....depending on what one is looking for in a replacement tire. :)

I would be looking for quiet and comfort as a priority! Handling is great but I don't race the car so quietness and comfort is critical to me. Of course, second is durability! Should I still Michelins or are there others out there I should consider? Of course, I assume Michelin's are very expensive...but if they are worth it! Thanks for the responses!

[LexMusic]

I had the rotors replaced under warranty with my ES only 30K of very non-aggressive highway driving.

To give you an idea of how much highway driving, I got 90K out of my front Camry pads.

[LexMusic]

I had the rotors replaced under warranty with my ES only 30K of very non-aggressive highway driving.

To give you an idea of how much highway driving, I got 90K out of my front Camry pads.

[Elan]

After driving my ES for a couple of weeks I have a question about the brakes. They feel quite soft, which I have heard is normal and that Lexus uses soft brake pads. How long do the brake pads typically last (I realize this varies greatly depending on driving environment and driving style)? What are others experiences with the brakes and or pads? I predominately drive in the city, but not aggressively.

Thanks in advance –

(Also - at 310 miles, my check engine light/VSC light and a red exclamation mark came on... I have an appointment for this today.)

I've officially had more issues with my Lexus than I had with my Prius in over 20k miles. :) Not worried though...

I believe that manufacturing firms get their parts from various sources. It may be that some brake parts on one car may not come from the same source as another, thus accounting for different experiences. Supply, demand and prices drive the selection of parts. Even parts from the same supplier may be different depending on their manufacturing standards and quality control.

[Generally John]

just got a 2007 es 350 and i noticed that the break pedal has a bit of travel before they start to bite. Had them checked out and my mechanic said all was fine. Is it normal for Lexus and Toyota brakes to have more brake pedal travel then other makes of cars (Nissan and BMW)?

[bearone]

I have a 2009 ES350 that turned 25,000 on the clock, had the brakes checked when the oil was changed and they said there was still more than half left on the front pads. I do a mix of city and highway driving. On my old 2002 Lexus ES300 I had 70,000 miles on it when the front pads needed to be replaced, rears were still good.

[peteanello]

I just had my 20k service. I told the advisor I felt a shimmy in the front end while braking. They turned the rotors and replaced the pads under warranty. They said they will only do this once. I don't know how much pad was left.

I also got new tires to replace the Bridgestone Turzana's. I had 4/32" left on the rear and a little more on the front. I went with the Michelin Primacy's..."V" rated. Wow, what a difference. Not so much in the noise factor, but in braking and handling. The Primacy's are much more quiet, by how much it's hard to say. But it takes much less effort to brake and the tires grip nicely around turns. If I wanted the "H" rated Primacy's, the tire shop would have had me sign a disclaimer, holding them harmless if anything were to happen.

[mhawkin1]

Update: At my 35K service, I still had 8mm on both front and rear. It has about 37.5K miles now.... longest I have ever driven a car - I must like it!

[lambert61]

Lexus, by no means, makes a "perfect" car. I've replaced rotors and brakes several times on my ES350. I don't drive like a maniac. My ES350 has been a constant source of issues ever sine I purchased it. Not happy with this car at all. Lexus needs to step it up.

[lenore]

My son has also experienced the shimmy on his ES350 07....He just replaced rotors and pads with slotted rotors and pads and says the car has never been so smooth...I suggest going to aftermarket, as I too feel the pads should last at least 50k miles.. Heck my old RX300 went 90k miles on the original pads and the rotors lasted 120k before any indications of shimmy.