jcrome04 Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 OK! So here's a little post I made at clublexus.... figured I'd share it with all of you here as well ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22.5gal X $3.17 (Regular at Chevron here) = $71.325 22.5gal X $3.37 (Premium at Chevron here) = $75.825 So if we need to get really technical... It's a difference of $4.50 But in reality we don't run our tanks 100% dry, So the average driver probably fills up 18-20gal. So lets just say 19gal fill up. 19gal x $3.17 (reg) = $60.23 19gal x $3.37 (prem) = $64.03 So in reality it's about a difference of $3.80 For example I also know that it's ok to go about 5,000 miles on an oil change, but most people change it around 3,000. So why not spend the extra $3.80 a tank. For factory recomended fuel. Which may not DRASTICALLY improve performance or mpg's but there is a SLIGHT increase, and will also reduce knocking and boost smoothness, and have the engine working at 100% instead of 95% This will be interesting: Let's also just say you fill up once a week every year. (using the 19gal reference) $60.23/ week X 52 weeks = $3131.96 a year $64.03/ week X 52 weeks = $3329.56 a year So technically the difference between regular and premium a year is $197.60 Difference In Years $197.60 X 5 years = $988.00 $197.60 X 10 years = $1976.00 So If you're filling up once a week for 10 years thats about $0.541 EXTRA every day!!! Money Spent on Gas In Years Regular 5 years = $15659.80 10 years = $31319.60 Premium 5 years = $16647.80 10 years = $33295.60 So it does add up in the long run but personally I'm just one of those guys that loves his car and wants the best of the best of the BEST for his car! Hahaha I think I took a few breaths during that! :D
aarman4 Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 The car was designed to run on 91 octane rating. running 87 in my cr will mean I have to drive it like i am 85 years old, and that is not why OI have this car. If I drive the car the way I do, and use regular rather than premium, my fuel economy will go down as my car tries to compensate for knocking, and I would wager that it is more costly over time than using the premium fuel. Also, highest octane rating doesn;t mean that it is best of the best. The highest rating in my area here that i can find is 94 rated octane, and no chance in hell am I going to drop that kind of cash into my tank for no reason. it's 91 only unless I am stuck in boonies and can only get 87 (like in my town).
VMF Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 never even concidered puttin anything lower then 91 into the car. ecu was programmed to work within certain boundaries with high octane fuel. putting lower octane fuel puts more strain on all engine components thus shortening a cars life. when you buy a luxury car you should expect to put a premium gas into it.
bigste Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 This all sounds interesting but here in Europe we can choose 95 or 97 octane. I'm amazed that car is designed to run on 91 octane. I would never in a million tears put 91 octane in my car and as for less than that I think I may as well pee in the tank.
aarman4 Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 bigste, it is not fuel of lower quality by any means, just because the octane rating is 87, 89, 91, 92,93,97, whatever... It is an ability to resist preignition(resulting in knocking). If your car has the same engine as mine, and you check your owners manual and it recommends 91 octane, than you have no reason whatsoever to think that above 91 octane will be "EVEN BETTER" for your car or provide more performance. It is simply a measure of a fuels stability under pressure, and thats it.
jcrome04 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Posted January 28, 2008 :chairshot: There are a lot of people on clublexus talking about only using low grade, or flip-flopping between regular and premium on different fill-ups. They think it's just fine and it doesn't matter at all. They don't understand the car is designed to run on higher octane fuel. They don't give a crap and it *BLEEP*es me off!!! Why own such an awesome prestigeous vehicle if you're going to treat it like a beater???? It's NOT that big of a price difference. Just think how much it will cost in repairs after years and years of the wrong fuel!!! I DO NOT care if I pay $0.20 more a gallon to have my car last longer, and perform at it's best!
aarman4 Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 I don;t mind running 87 octane ONLY WHEN I NEED TO as long as I do not "punch it" or raise the RPM too high, as 87 rated octane will usually preignite under the conditions that the 1uzfe will subject it to(high-ish compression). It should run just fine on 87 if you never truly step on the gas hard, and drive really easy, but like I said, the manufacturer wants 91, so thats what she gets whenever I fill up if it's available.
eatingupblacktop Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Unless you're an engineer, you're playing a guessing game. Each engine is designed with a specific fuel in mind. That fuel meets the various requirements of the engine. Basically, less octane than required equals less performance and more knock/pinging depending on how much your computer can compensate for the lack of octane. More octane than required equals making the oil companies rich with no benefit to you.
SRK Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 This all sounds interesting but here in Europe we can choose 95 or 97 octane. I'm amazed that car is designed to run on 91 octane. I would never in a million tears put 91 octane in my car and as for less than that I think I may as well pee in the tank. In North America octane ratings are derived from the Motor Octane Number (MON) and the Research Octane Number (RON) added together and divided by 2. In other words an average of the two. I believe in Europe the octane is the RON number alone, which is a higher number for the same actual octane that we have. The Lexus octane requirement is expressed as the average I think. Once again this thread is demonstrating the age-old belief that higher octane is better in all ways, when in fact it is an expression of anti-knock value only. And once again engines can't read and don't know that we think of them as "prestigious" or "luxury" or whatever. They just run, and the Lexus V-8 derivative is just as happy in a Tundra pick-up as an LS.
eatingupblacktop Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 I agree with SRK and would add that instead of looking for higher octane for an engine that doesn't need it, I would look to get my fuel from a top tier supplier instead.
GKLCPA Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 JC, Why are you running around starting trouble about the type of gas people use? You couldn't keep this over at Club Lexus could you? Nooo, you had to involve some other people :) Look, I don't care if it's only 50 cents a day less. If it means so much to the oil companies to charge it, then it means just as much to me to keep that 50 cents in my pocket. That money adds up. I could buy something with those savings. I'm not prepared to say what it is I would buy right now, but it would be something. OK! So here's a little post I made at clublexus.... figured I'd share it with all of you here as well ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22.5gal X $3.17 (Regular at Chevron here) = $71.325 22.5gal X $3.37 (Premium at Chevron here) = $75.825 So if we need to get really technical... It's a difference of $4.50 But in reality we don't run our tanks 100% dry, So the average driver probably fills up 18-20gal. So lets just say 19gal fill up. 19gal x $3.17 (reg) = $60.23 19gal x $3.37 (prem) = $64.03 So in reality it's about a difference of $3.80 For example I also know that it's ok to go about 5,000 miles on an oil change, but most people change it around 3,000. So why not spend the extra $3.80 a tank. For factory recomended fuel. Which may not DRASTICALLY improve performance or mpg's but there is a SLIGHT increase, and will also reduce knocking and boost smoothness, and have the engine working at 100% instead of 95% This will be interesting: Let's also just say you fill up once a week every year. (using the 19gal reference) $60.23/ week X 52 weeks = $3131.96 a year $64.03/ week X 52 weeks = $3329.56 a year So technically the difference between regular and premium a year is $197.60 Difference In Years $197.60 X 5 years = $988.00 $197.60 X 10 years = $1976.00 So If you're filling up once a week for 10 years thats about $0.541 EXTRA every day!!! Money Spent on Gas In Years Regular 5 years = $15659.80 10 years = $31319.60 Premium 5 years = $16647.80 10 years = $33295.60 So it does add up in the long run but personally I'm just one of those guys that loves his car and wants the best of the best of the BEST for his car! Hahaha I think I took a few breaths during that! :D
RFeldes Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 We have been to this dance before. On average you would lose 2 mpg running 87 over premium in a 400 series. That is why they recommend a higher octane. jcrome..put that quotient in your arithmatic and get back to us. Should be interesting. For you doubters, Lexus is showing the highest mpg obtainable for the ratio and not interested in the oil industry..at all. As far as getting more power or mpg on a lower octane rated vehicle with premium, wishful thinking.
SRK Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 I agree with SRK and would add that instead of looking for higher octane for an engine that doesn't need it, I would look to get my fuel from a top tier supplier instead. Time for a thread hijack.... Blacktop I really like the avatar - Jeff Beck is one of my favourites. His work with Buddy Guy was outstanding - blistered "Mustang Sally" way better than the Commitments did. To my mind "There and Back" is his best. I bought "Becks Garage" years ago, and I just didn't get it....what do you think of it? SRK
SKperformance Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Just for fun , i have a tank of reg in my LS , i run it once a winter , just to allow the computer to know the difference and change the timing . Does it need it probably not . Do i use reg , only on rare occasions like this. Is their a difference in price , yes . but it still lead to a pay me now or later situation. The power is usually decreased well with a high compression motor like an 98 and newer LS with drive by wire. Strange thing is last night i dropped it on the highway and i swear i have never been pressed in the seat harder than that. I did just change my plugs and the economy have lowered enough to be nothing short of amazing . I do have a hesitation and it is no longer as smooth which was instantly from the fill up. At first after the fill up the tranny usually is not as responsive as normal and is using weird shift points to compensate . Next tank will be 94 again.
eatingupblacktop Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 I agree with SRK and would add that instead of looking for higher octane for an engine that doesn't need it, I would look to get my fuel from a top tier supplier instead. Time for a thread hijack.... Blacktop I really like the avatar - Jeff Beck is one of my favourites. His work with Buddy Guy was outstanding - blistered "Mustang Sally" way better than the Commitments did. To my mind "There and Back" is his best. I bought "Becks Garage" years ago, and I just didn't get it....what do you think of it? SRK I was wondering how long it would take for someone to catch on. Yeah the Beckmeister was/is a mentor. Seen him live about 8-10 times. Last time was at Massey Hall in Toronto - FRONT ROW CENTRE! Took a month to recover! Because he's a mentor, there's nothing of his I don't like. On this album there's a cut called "Big Block" - some of the heaviest guitar since "Voodoo Chile". On his "Who Else" cd there's a cut called "Where Were You" he plays almost entirely with the whammy bar. No one else can do that. Saw him play Star Cycle, El Becko and others from There and Back in one of his shows. Excellent Album. I picked this cover for my avatar because it was his comeback album after wiping out in his custom rod and almost getting killed. The guy is a big time builder! Builds all his own rods. Have you heard his version of A Day In The Life - the Beatles song? It's on The George Martin "In My Life" cd. He's a real chameleon in the music he plays and who he plays with, but you can always recognize his playing - most explosive player I've ever seen. Seen Buddy about a dozen times. Another classic. Jammed with his backup, AC & the boys from a while ago. Saw Stevie Ray (another favourite) when he was first starting out (after turning down Bowie for a world tour) at the El Mocombo in Toronto. Sat right at the front - what a show. Since Jimi and Stevie have left the scene, JB's the Man. Even Jimmy Page has said that when Jeff is on there's no one that can touch him. Just before his tour with JB, Stevie said in an interview that he was nervous about going on that tour because Beck is such an intimidating player. I could go on for hours about all the players I've seen, but this thread aint the place. Got some great stories about Buddy. Maybe I'll post something in General. Nice to know there are Beck fans out there who are into cars.
mimstim Posted January 29, 2008 Posted January 29, 2008 I agree with SRK and would add that instead of looking for higher octane for an engine that doesn't need it, I would look to get my fuel from a top tier supplier instead. Time for a thread hijack.... Blacktop I really like the avatar - Jeff Beck is one of my favourites. His work with Buddy Guy was outstanding - blistered "Mustang Sally" way better than the Commitments did. To my mind "There and Back" is his best. I bought "Becks Garage" years ago, and I just didn't get it....what do you think of it? SRK I was wondering how long it would take for someone to catch on. Yeah the Beckmeister was/is a mentor. Seen him live about 8-10 times. Last time was at Massey Hall in Toronto - FRONT ROW CENTRE! Took a month to recover! Because he's a mentor, there's nothing of his I don't like. On this album there's a cut called "Big Block" - some of the heaviest guitar since "Voodoo Chile". On his "Who Else" cd there's a cut called "Where Were You" he plays almost entirely with the whammy bar. No one else can do that. Saw him play Star Cycle, El Becko and others from There and Back in one of his shows. Excellent Album. I picked this cover for my avatar because it was his comeback album after wiping out in his custom rod and almost getting killed. The guy is a big time builder! Builds all his own rods. Have you heard his version of A Day In The Life - the Beatles song? It's on The George Martin "In My Life" cd. He's a real chameleon in the music he plays and who he plays with, but you can always recognize his playing - most explosive player I've ever seen. Seen Buddy about a dozen times. Another classic. Jammed with his backup, AC & the boys from a while ago. Saw Stevie Ray (another favourite) when he was first starting out (after turning down Bowie for a world tour) at the El Mocombo in Toronto. Sat right at the front - what a show. Since Jimi and Stevie have left the scene, JB's the Man. Even Jimmy Page has said that when Jeff is on there's no one that can touch him. Just before his tour with JB, Stevie said in an interview that he was nervous about going on that tour because Beck is such an intimidating player. I could go on for hours about all the players I've seen, but this thread aint the place. Got some great stories about Buddy. Maybe I'll post something in General. Nice to know there are Beck fans out there who are into cars.
mimstim Posted January 29, 2008 Posted January 29, 2008 Take the oil filler cap off a LS 400 WITH 100K RUNNING ON REG AND ONE ON 94 OCT AND COMPARE THE BOTTOM PART OF CAP.THE HEADS WILL BE FILTHY ! A OLD BENZ MECHANIC I agree with SRK and would add that instead of looking for higher octane for an engine that doesn't need it, I would look to get my fuel from a top tier supplier instead. Time for a thread hijack.... Blacktop I really like the avatar - Jeff Beck is one of my favourites. His work with Buddy Guy was outstanding - blistered "Mustang Sally" way better than the Commitments did. To my mind "There and Back" is his best. I bought "Becks Garage" years ago, and I just didn't get it....what do you think of it? SRK I was wondering how long it would take for someone to catch on. Yeah the Beckmeister was/is a mentor. Seen him live about 8-10 times. Last time was at Massey Hall in Toronto - FRONT ROW CENTRE! Took a month to recover! Because he's a mentor, there's nothing of his I don't like. On this album there's a cut called "Big Block" - some of the heaviest guitar since "Voodoo Chile". On his "Who Else" cd there's a cut called "Where Were You" he plays almost entirely with the whammy bar. No one else can do that. Saw him play Star Cycle, El Becko and others from There and Back in one of his shows. Excellent Album. I picked this cover for my avatar because it was his comeback album after wiping out in his custom rod and almost getting killed. The guy is a big time builder! Builds all his own rods. Have you heard his version of A Day In The Life - the Beatles song? It's on The George Martin "In My Life" cd. He's a real chameleon in the music he plays and who he plays with, but you can always recognize his playing - most explosive player I've ever seen. Seen Buddy about a dozen times. Another classic. Jammed with his backup, AC & the boys from a while ago. Saw Stevie Ray (another favourite) when he was first starting out (after turning down Bowie for a world tour) at the El Mocombo in Toronto. Sat right at the front - what a show. Since Jimi and Stevie have left the scene, JB's the Man. Even Jimmy Page has said that when Jeff is on there's no one that can touch him. Just before his tour with JB, Stevie said in an interview that he was nervous about going on that tour because Beck is such an intimidating player. I could go on for hours about all the players I've seen, but this thread aint the place. Got some great stories about Buddy. Maybe I'll post something in General. Nice to know there are Beck fans out there who are into cars.
blake918 Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 We have been to this dance before. On average you would lose 2 mpg running 87 over premium in a 400 series. That is why they recommend a higher octane. jcrome..put that quotient in your arithmatic and get back to us. Should be interesting. For you doubters, Lexus is showing the highest mpg obtainable for the ratio and not interested in the oil industry..at all. As far as getting more power or mpg on a lower octane rated vehicle with premium, wishful thinking.I couldn't agree more. My car gets lower mpg with 87 gas. It's been a while since I tried it, but it was 2 or 3 mpg less. The average fuel economy was left out of the original post which is a huge factor in this equation, and in the case of my old LS, it proves that 87 costs more to run.20,000 miles/22mpg=900 gallons of 93 octane @ $3.10/gallon=$2,818 20,000 miles/20mpg=1,000 gallons of 87 octane @ $2.90/gallon=$2,900 I have a savings of $82 a year by running premium. Like SK said, pay me now or pay me later.
SRK Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Take the oil filler cap off a LS 400 WITH 100K RUNNING ON REG AND ONE ON 94 OCT AND COMPARE THE BOTTOM PART OF CAP.THE HEADS WILL BE FILTHY ! A OLD BENZ MECHANIC That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. The API, SAE, and the ILSAC make no mention of oil sludging or oxidation that can be attributed to lower octane fuels, in any of their published literature. I'll trust their statements on lubricants before anecdotal evidence any day of the week.
bwoods Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Although this thread is five, six months old, just wanted to report my experiences with my '96 LS400. I put in a tank of regular unleaded at Costco. Contrary to others' experiences posted here, I have had NO pinging or knocks, or decrease in gas mileage, or decrease in power. I still can mash the accelerator and I can perceive no difference in power either from a standstill or passing cars on the freeway or in the city. So as far as I'm concerned, my only question is long-term affect on the motor if any. And judging by the this and other threads on the subject, it seems up for debate!
dashan Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 The LS4 is designed for 91. So is it a waste to put the 93 in?
lenore Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Heck, knock out the bottle of bottled water everyday, and you break even...or those $4 coffees at your favorite shop, and wow you are really ahead....
eatingupblacktop Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Heck, knock out the bottle of bottled water everyday, and you break even...or those $4 coffees at your favorite shop, and wow you are really ahead.... That's the best perspective I've read so far. After all, think about all the places where coin just slips out of our pockets and disappears into the void. Before I know it, the cash I start out with every day in my wallet is almost gone, and I don't know where it went! Sound familiar?
wwest Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 If the day comes that I have to chose between my Grande Latte and premium fuel I'll be driving Prius FIRST...??
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