What's The Difference Between A Ls And A Celsior?

[scottelble]

I was checkin out some Celsiors' and i can't tell any difference from the LS, other then it's right hand drive. So is that what you drive if you live in japan? I'm alittle confused?!? Would someone please enlighten me:) Do they even make them with the steering on the left or is that and the emblems the only change?

[SW03ES]

Thats the only difference. Celsiors have some option packages we don't get here, but its the same car.

[flanker271]

There is a scam in the UK where second hand Celsiors were imported. The Toyota badges are then replaced with Lexus ones.

[scottelble]

There is a scam in the UK where second hand Celsiors were imported. The Toyota badges are then replaced with Lexus ones.

But they WERE basically Lexus' weren't they, with the exeption of the emblems? I guess the people are just trying to achive the status symbol of the mighty L, maybe.....Interesting

[93LSOwner]

Yes, they are nearly exactly the same except they fall under Toyota's name as Celsiors and in other countries are marketed under the name Lexus. Which divides the luxury line of Toyota vehicles, i.e. different dealerships etc.

[SKperformance]

When the LS came out in 90 it shares everything but some high end option only in Japan such as the tv ,rear seat controls for the radio and heater, reclining seats, cloth seats was the main option even on the "C" model, rear reclineable seats as well as the driver being able to move the passenger front seat forward and reclining the rear seats with buttons by the ashtray .

The North American market finally caught up in about 2001 with the ultra cars.,

[lextsy]

I owned a 1989 Celsior and now own a LS400.

The JDM Celsior has toyota badges on the wheels, engine and panels.

The window glass still says lexus/toyota. Mine was a CF package with heated reclining massaging chairs.

I believe they also have 1 piece headlights

[SW03ES]

The windows on the newer cars say "Lexus"

[dfkd]

They also have electric retractable outside mirrors with a button near the mirror switch.

[Coldnorth]

I recently purchased a 1992 Celsior and I believe it has a lower gear ratio than the LS400. My engine is revving about 2450 RPM at 70 mph... seems fast to me. As such, I am only getting about 23 MPG on a Canadian gallon... and that is mostly highway at 70-75 mph. Car only has 43,000 miles on it and is like new. It has the options in the back seats to entertain my teenagers and let me drive.

I see others are getting better economy with their similar year LS400's and wonder how they do it? I put in a higher flow air cleaner but no difference. Smooth engine... incredible. In fact, I have the Toyota boat with the very same 4.0L V8 but rated at 300hp... most likely due to no intake and minimal resistance on the exhaust. What an engine it is... absolutely the most economical on the lake by quite a bit.

How fast does the LS400 rev on the highway? Any other suggestions to get better mileage?

Thanks

[1990LS400]

I recently purchased a 1992 Celsior and I believe it has a lower gear ratio than the LS400.

You are correct. The 92 Celsior has a 3.917 rear diff and the 92 Canadian spec LS400 has a 3.615 rear diff. If you look at the part numbers for the two diffs, you can see the ratios:

92 Celsior: http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1992_TOYO...AEPQK_4101.html

92 LS400: http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1992_LEXU...EPGKK_4101.html

Any other suggestions to get better mileage?

Slow down to the 100 km/h speed limit of most Alberta highways? Clean out the trunk? Leave the kids and wife at home? ;)

[Coldnorth]

That is great information... not necessarily good for me, but it is good to know.

I will talk to my mechanic here to see how involved it is to change the ratio. I can't think it will change the mileage that much... I see guys claiming nearly 30mpg on a US gallon. Ours is considerably larger and I am only getting 23...

I sure enjoy the car though. What a beautiful ride. These are all new to me as I had never been in one before I purchased this one.

Can you let me know how fast your LS400 is reving at highway speeds?

Thanks again.

[1990LS400]

That is great information... not necessarily good for me, but it is good to know.

I will talk to my mechanic here to see how involved it is to change the ratio. I can't think it will change the mileage that much... I see guys claiming nearly 30mpg on a US gallon. Ours is considerably larger and I am only getting 23...

I sure enjoy the car though. What a beautiful ride. These are all new to me as I had never been in one before I purchased this one.

Can you let me know how fast your LS400 is reving at highway speeds?

Thanks again.

I have to laugh when I read claims of typically getting 30 miles per U.S. gallon on a gen 1 LS400. I tracked every drop of gasoline that when into my 1990 LS400 from new until I sold it at 183,000+ miles and it approached 25 mpg in highway only driving only a few times and only because of a rather stiff tail wind. Typically, the overall fuel economy was much, much lower -- probably 17 - 20 mpg. I gave the records to the 90's new owner so I can't give you the exact figures unless he (Toby?) happens to see this post (he is a forum member and also has a GX470) still has the maintenance/fuel log I gave him and provides the information.

My current 2000 LS400 with its 5-speed transmission and better aerodynamics gets substantially better fuel mileage that my 90 LS did -- it averages 26.7 to 27.3 mpg (U.S. gallons) in highway only driving in low wind conditions with the car fairly lightly loaded. The 2000 has just barely exceeded 30 mpg only once on a highway trip from Tulsa OK to Kansas City with a very strong tailwind -- gusts to 50 mph. Fuel economy in mixed city/highway driving is much worse -- mileage at the past five fillups were: 21.8 mpg, 20.6 mpg, 22.8 mpg, 21.1 mpg and 15.9 mpg. I doubt if I got on a highway and exceeded 45 mph during the period in which the 00 LS got 15.9 mpg -- it was all stop and go driving.

It should be possible for you to calculate RPM for any car at various mph/kmh for any transmission gear and final drive ratio combination by using simple formulas. Doing these calculations are probably more common in the track racing world. The following isn't the best webpage but I found it in a quick search -- it has formulas for calculating RPM: http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner...ing/mph-rpm.htm

If you are old enough, you might remember when cars could be ordered with a huge variety of final drive ratios. I'm kind of a Mercedes buff (even if I wouldn't buy one anymore) and see in one of my books that, for example, the 300SL roadster produced from 1957 to 1963 could be ordered with the standard 3.64 rear diff or with an optional 3.25, 3.42, or 3.89 rear diff.

According to a November 1989 Automobile magazine article, the 1990 U.S. spec LS400 had the following transmission gear ratios:

(I) 2.53 (II) 1.53 (III) 1.00 (IV) 0.71

It's hard to believe I've held on to that magazine issue for 20 years -- it led me to buying my first LS400 a few months later.

I can't imagine that changing your rear diff ratio from 3.917 to 3.615 would help your fuel economy enough to be worth the effort. You might even introduce unintended problems by opening up the rear diff. Let sleeping dogs lie.

[blake918]

I recently purchased a 1992 Celsior and I believe it has a lower gear ratio than the LS400. My engine is revving about 2450 RPM at 70 mph... seems fast to me. As such, I am only getting about 23 MPG on a Canadian gallon... and that is mostly highway at 70-75 mph. Car only has 43,000 miles on it and is like new. It has the options in the back seats to entertain my teenagers and let me drive.

I see others are getting better economy with their similar year LS400's and wonder how they do it? I put in a higher flow air cleaner but no difference. Smooth engine... incredible. In fact, I have the Toyota boat with the very same 4.0L V8 but rated at 300hp... most likely due to no intake and minimal resistance on the exhaust. What an engine it is... absolutely the most economical on the lake by quite a bit.

How fast does the LS400 rev on the highway? Any other suggestions to get better mileage?

I'd love to ask the engineers of the car why the revs are so damn high on the hwy. I've had 4cyl and 6cyl rental cars that don't come close to the rpm range that the LS does on the hwy, and they did just fine running the rolling hills we have here. I believe the Gen I cars run a little faster than Gen II, but my '99 runs...

-70mph = 2200rpms

-75mph = 2400rpms

-80mph = 2600rpms

Sounds like you might need a tune-up if you are getting less than 23mpg. Despite the gearing, I get great hwy only mpg, 27-28 mpg with the a/c on, and I always run 5-10 over the 70mph limit. I inflate my tires more than most since I hate how mushy 30psi or whatever they call for feels, I run a good synthetic oil, and I keep on top of all the maintenance items.

[OmarG]

I recently purchased a 1992 Celsior and I believe it has a lower gear ratio than the LS400. My engine is revving about 2450 RPM at 70 mph... seems fast to me. As such, I am only getting about 23 MPG on a Canadian gallon... and that is mostly highway at 70-75 mph. Car only has 43,000 miles on it and is like new. It has the options in the back seats to entertain my teenagers and let me drive.

I see others are getting better economy with their similar year LS400's and wonder how they do it? I put in a higher flow air cleaner but no difference. Smooth engine... incredible. In fact, I have the Toyota boat with the very same 4.0L V8 but rated at 300hp... most likely due to no intake and minimal resistance on the exhaust. What an engine it is... absolutely the most economical on the lake by quite a bit.

How fast does the LS400 rev on the highway? Any other suggestions to get better mileage?

I'd love to ask the engineers of the car why the revs are so damn high on the hwy. I've had 4cyl and 6cyl rental cars that don't come close to the rpm range that the LS does on the hwy, and they did just fine running the rolling hills we have here. I believe the Gen I cars run a little faster than Gen II, but my '99 runs...

-70mph = 2200rpms

-75mph = 2400rpms

-80mph = 2600rpms

Sounds like you might need a tune-up if you are getting less than 23mpg. Despite the gearing, I get great hwy only mpg, 27-28 mpg with the a/c on, and I always run 5-10 over the 70mph limit. I inflate my tires more than most since I hate how mushy 30psi or whatever they call for feels, I run a good synthetic oil, and I keep on top of all the maintenance items.

My 93 usually gets about 22-23mpg in steady 70+ highway driving. can get about 25 at 60-65. i've been meaning to buy a new fuel filter, might help things out. What do you think guys? is oem worth double the price of an o'reily/autozone filter?

I've wondered the same thing blake. I think its for better, more responsive highway driving in overdrive. i've driven other higher geared vehicles (like a 92 mercury g-marquis) and most have to downshift to speed up moderately. not so in the LS. Also wringing out 150mph top speed with only 4 gears takes some careful consideration.

my 93 runs is geared at 30mph per 1k rpm.

-60mph = 2000rpm

-70 = 2300

-75 = 2500

-80 = 2700

SC400's are geared even lower for more response.

[VBdenny]

Fuel economy milage depends on many factors but probably none as much as your individual driving habits. I love my V-8 Lexus and I figure that if I have a V-8, I'm gonna use it. In city driving I usually average right around 17-18mpg. On Interstates I can easily pull 25mpg. I could probably milk 30mpg out of it if I made an honest effort, but I don't. My foot tends to press down a little harder than many as I like to drive fast in this car so 25 is great for me.

[1990LS400]

Back to Coldnorth's question ... it would be interesting to know the curb weight of Coldnorth's car since it appears to be a Celsior C-spec with the "F" package.

The "official" weight of a U.S. spec 92 LS400 is 3,759 lb and that is probably similar to the Canadian spec 92 LS400. I'm guessing that Coldnorth's Celsior with it's rear airconditioning unit, rear power seats, and other additional equipment not available on U.S./Canadian spec cars could add quite a bit of weight. Increased weight = lower fuel economy.

[steve2006]

From a maintainance/cost point of view the Celsiors have no EGR system fitted as it is not required in Japan so no fiddling about changing that fractured EGR pipe,the radio aerial is part of the heater rear demister so no physical aerial on the rear panel,some models had a "fender Pole" a short electrical aerial type attachment on the front fender to allow you to judge the edge of the car, Celsiors generally have no manufacturers alarm/immobiliser fitted,dependant on the spec their is air suspension,standard springs or TEMS,interiors as mentioned can be velour or leather,they have electrically operated folding mirrors,traction control is fitted

[killerFatty]

Your right amcdonal. How do I delete my post?

[amcdonal86]

Why on earth would you post that in this thread? What do you define as "extremely light on the throttle"?