Ford Five Hundred An Lexus Ls Ripoff?

[1990LS400]

I'm in my 8th day (of 14) driving a Ford Five Hundred sedan on vacation in Virginia and I can't believe how much I like it and how similar it is to our 2000 LS400. Has anyone else spent time in a Ford Five Hundred and have opinions?

Except for the cruise control, much of the interior and even exterior design is a direct "ripoff" of the LS400/LS430. The clock in the center of the dash looks like a ripoff from the Q45.

The leather front seats are very similar to our LS - even the color is nearly identical. The seat cushion is the same somewhat inadequate depth as in the LS. Except for the manual (instead of electric) lumber supports, the seat adjustment switches are in the same location on the sides of the seat cushions and work the same way as in the LS. The seat memory switches are on the door in the same location as the LS and work the same way. If I was blindfolded (not recommended while driving!), I don't think I could tell the Ford and LS seats apart. The dual mode climate control switches are shaped a little differently but also work the same way as in the LS. The air vents on the dash exactly match the redesigned vents on the later LS which elimilated the rattles common on the early LS. The quality and texture of the interior materials in the Five Hundred seem very Mercedes-like (and lower quality) than in a Lexus LS.

The trip computer and its steering wheel controls are quite similar to the LS. I love the huge outside rear view mirrors - they look like they could have come from a large truck but they they cause little wind noise.

The interior is very roomy - I'm six foot and I could probably wear a ten gallon hat while driving this Ford. The rear leather seats (which I have not ridden in) seem very comfortable and have more legroom and much more headroom than our LS - and the seat backs fold down. The trunk is humongous.

I've been driving this car on lots of very winding roads as we visit many historical sites and wineries (and carrying an every increasing amount of purchased wine in the trunk) - the steering "turn-in" is quite sharp and precise. The car has 225/55-18 Pirelli P6 tires which probably help a lot - I thought they would cost a fortune to replace but Tirerack has them for only $84. The V6 is a little too "raspy" for my tastes but the six-speed automatic transmission helps make the car very responsive and quite zoomy up these Blue Ridge Mountain hills.

Driving this car has been an eye-opening experience. I tend to "write off" American cars but I am really getting a real kick at seeing how much Ford has "stolen" from Lexus in creating the Five Hundred. And I like seeing an American company make such great progress.

Would I buy a Ford Five Hundred? OK, I do own (too many) shares of Ford stock. But there are a couple of things I don't like about this Ford: The light color dash uphostery color causes an irritating reflection in the windshield - it should be much darker like in our LS. And I consider the lack of rear amber turn signals to be a safety issue. But I've driven over 1500 miles in 8 days and am very pleased with the 23.9 mpg overall.

It has been about 15 years since I saw Lexus LS cars being rented by a major U.S. car rental company. Although it may sound like heresy on a Lexus forum, I suggest that LS owners try a Ford Five Hundred the next time they need to rent a car on a business or pleasure trip. It will be an easy transition from your LS.

[monarch]

I couldn't disagree more. I rent cars 25 times a year and every time I get an American car I soon wish I could push it off a cliff. Why? Because NOTHING in an American car is simple and intuitive to operate. I can't get in and figure out how to turn the headlights on, turn the cruise control on, adjust the mirrors, adjust the seats, turn on the wipers, dim the headlights, open the gas filler door, open the hood, open the trunk ad, turn on the radio, adjust the radio and so forth. All this is downright scary if I rent in the late evening and try to drive to a motel without crashing or getting a ticket (for not having the lights on or being unable to turn off the high beams). It is as if the American car designers spent months trying to figure out how to infuriate drivers and make them hate their products.

[Lexusfreak]

I've had the chance to drive both cars in the past........didn't see, hear, smell or feel any similarities at all to be honest........and the Five Hundred is so under powered with the 3L V6 it's not even funny (I won't even comment on the AWD model). Ford really dripped the ball by not bringing that model (as well as the Freestyle & Lincoln Zephyr......er sorry, the now MKZ) to market with their new 3.5L V6. :whistles:

[blake918]

I couldn't disagree more. I rent cars 25 times a year and every time I get an American car I soon wish I could push it off a cliff. Why? Because NOTHING in an American car is simple and intuitive to operate. I can't get in and figure out how to turn the headlights on, turn the cruise control on, adjust the mirrors, adjust the seats, turn on the wipers, dim the headlights, open the gas filler door, open the hood, open the trunk ad, turn on the radio, adjust the radio and so forth. All this is downright scary if I rent in the late evening and try to drive to a motel without crashing or getting a ticket (for not having the lights on or being unable to turn off the high beams). It is as if the American car designers spent months trying to figure out how to infuriate drivers and make them hate their products.

Are you being facetious? Activating the wipers or moving the seats in a nonToyota isn't complicated at all.

I don't find that the 500 reminds me of the LS too much, other than their both being very fine cars! First of all, the 500 has great head and legroom, so that's your first indication that it isn't a Lexus! LOL Seriously though, I've spent 30 minutes or so behind the wheel (test drive) of a 500 LTD and loved every second. I've always liked Tauruses, so what's not to like about a larger and better Taurus built on a great chassis! I could see how the little 3.0l Duratech would be too slow for some (although 0-60 in just over 8.5 seconds is pretty good for an almost 4,000lbs car.), but if you are concerned that you are going to lose the race to the punk in the moded Cavilier next to you, you should probably look past the 500. Considering that the LTD model is just over $27k before incentives, it's a lot of car for the money. I'm certainly going to look at one when I get rid of my LS in a few years!

[SKperformance]

I find the interior cheap in the Ford , as in very cheap plastics and poor fit and finish.

[mburnickas]

I couldn't disagree more. I rent cars 25 times a year and every time I get an American car I soon wish I could push it off a cliff. Why? Because NOTHING in an American car is simple and intuitive to operate. I can't get in and figure out how to turn the headlights on, turn the cruise control on, adjust the mirrors, adjust the seats, turn on the wipers, dim the headlights, open the gas filler door, open the hood, open the trunk ad, turn on the radio, adjust the radio and so forth. All this is downright scary if I rent in the late evening and try to drive to a motel without crashing or getting a ticket (for not having the lights on or being unable to turn off the high beams). It is as if the American car designers spent months trying to figure out how to infuriate drivers and make them hate their products.

Are you kidding me????? Lights where much easier when I had a Ford; on the dash with a big light symbol on it. My lexus is on the stick (like a wiper), good move Toyota. I do not think any car is different with high beans. They all function the same, you move the lever front to rear or the other way. Not to hard here.

Open the trunk is the same in my Lexus of my parents Ford’s. Wipers are 180 degrees a$$$ backwards in a Lexus/Toyota then any other car I have owned or driven. Then again I know my grandkids (and even my own) can turn on all these functions faster then me and without issues.

I know Sk is correct with the interior feeling cheaper but then Toyota/Lexus. But so is the initial cost of the purchase. I do not see a Ford 500 in the $40K price tag either.

So in the end they both have pros / cons and what you like or used to.

[SW03ES]

I couldn't disagree more. I rent cars 25 times a year and every time I get an American car I soon wish I could push it off a cliff. Why? Because NOTHING in an American car is simple and intuitive to operate. I can't get in and figure out how to turn the headlights on, turn the cruise control on, adjust the mirrors, adjust the seats, turn on the wipers, dim the headlights, open the gas filler door, open the hood, open the trunk ad, turn on the radio, adjust the radio and so forth. All this is downright scary if I rent in the late evening and try to drive to a motel without crashing or getting a ticket (for not having the lights on or being unable to turn off the high beams). It is as if the American car designers spent months trying to figure out how to infuriate drivers and make them hate their products.

Have you driven a Ford Five Hundred? My guess is no.

The 500, while it still suffers from cheap materials and poor build, is a huge step forward for Ford. Both it and the Chrysler 300 are very good offerings.

mburn, your grandkids?

[LEXIRX330]

I couldn't disagree more. I rent cars 25 times a year and every time I get an American car I soon wish I could push it off a cliff. Why? Because NOTHING in an American car is simple and intuitive to operate. I can't get in and figure out how to turn the headlights on, turn the cruise control on, adjust the mirrors, adjust the seats, turn on the wipers, dim the headlights, open the gas filler door, open the hood, open the trunk ad, turn on the radio, adjust the radio and so forth. All this is downright scary if I rent in the late evening and try to drive to a motel without crashing or getting a ticket (for not having the lights on or being unable to turn off the high beams). It is as if the American car designers spent months trying to figure out how to infuriate drivers and make them hate their products.

Have you driven a Ford Five Hundred? My guess is no.

The 500, while it still suffers from cheap materials and poor build, is a huge step forward for Ford. Both it and the Chrysler 300 are very good offerings.

mburn, your grandkids?

I am not even going to start this one again! (KIA...HYUNDIA...FORD...whatever...I have not driven a Ford 500...and I do not care to drive one either...so I will not comment on the Car! :D :D :D

[mburnickas]

mburn, your grandkids?

opps, ment Nesses and Nephews..Got something on my mind (non lexus related)

[1990LS400]

By starting this thread I didn't mean to imply that the Ford Five Hundred was an LS competitor. I am making several points: During this vacation, it has been easier to transition from my 2000 LS400 to the Ford Five Hundred that to any other rental car I have ever driven.

Monarch, I don't particularly like how Toyota/Lexus puts the headlight switch on the turn signal stalk. By the way, how many of you know the reason Japanese cars have the headlight switch on the turn signal stalk?

I prefer how the Ford Five Hundred "ripped off" Mercedes with an almost identical headlight/foglight switch on the dash. How many of you can tell me about the tragedy that caused Mercedes to design the headlight/foglight switch that has been used on their cars for 50 years?

Unlike Monarch I rent cars only 5 - 10 time each year but sometimes accompany my wife who rents cars about 25 times each year on business trips. We rent a rather large variety of cars so we see a variety of good and bad cars. By the way, for safety reasons we never rent anything less than a full size car and never an SUV.

I generally do not have any problem finding the controls on rental cars. Why? I spend 5 - 10 minutes finding out how all the controls work before driving out of the rental company parking lot. I always carry a tire pressure gauge when I travel and check the tires before I venture out - I sometimes find tires under or over inflated by 10 - 15 pounds.

I really like Toyota/Lexus products and will likely continue to buy them. But my experience during this vacation with the Ford Five Hundred shows me that the gap is being rapidly closed. Competition from Ford and other manufactures will only make Toyota/Lexus even better. Competition is what it is all about.

Meanwhile, I am really enjoying this Ford. We off to Mount Vernon tomorrow on the continuing history tour -- four of the five first presidents' homes.

[SW03ES]

mburn, your grandkids?

opps, ment Nesses and Nephews..Got something on my mind (non lexus related)

I was wondering LOL. I mean...kids are sexually active younger and younger but that'd be nuts!

Monarch, I don't particularly like how Toyota/Lexus puts the headlight switch on the turn signal stalk. By the way, how many of you know the reason Japanese cars have the headlight switch on the turn signal stalk?

Isn't it because in Japan its customary to go to the city lights when you're stopped at traffic signals or in wel lit areas?

Meanwhile, I am really enjoying this Ford. We off to Mount Vernon tomorrow on the continuing history tour -- four of the five first presidents' homes.

The 500 is a very well done car I agree, its a huge departure from the Taurus and the Crown Vic and really revitalizes the "large American car" segment along with the Chrysler 300. If I were buying in that segment I absolutely would look at one.

You're in Northern VA? If you've got some time we should meet for lunch or coffee or something.

[mburnickas]

mburn, your grandkids?

I was thinking about this for some odd reason (having a few long island cold ones) :)

My wife is MUCH older then myself and "if" she had kid(s) in her first marriage, when either 16 to 20 she COULD have grandkids....so there!!!!!! ;)

[SW03ES]

Wow, you DO like older women don't you? ;)

[monarch]

I really like Toyota/Lexus products and will likely continue to buy them. But my experience during this vacation with the Ford Five Hundred shows me that the gap is being rapidly closed.

For 30 years, four major gaps have existed between the American and Asian cars; namely: Reliability, Durability, Long term Owner Satisfaction, Depreciation. The Ford five hundred and Chrysler 300 havn't made any substantial strides in those four areas, hence havn't helped Ford or Chrysler gain market share on the West or East coast where Asian cars rule. But I think they should help Ford and Chrysler maintain market share in the Midwest where American cars rule.

[SW03ES]

Again Monarch hasn't said whether he has ever driven a Ford 500 or Chrysler 300. My guess is no.

I mean, come on Monarch. Jim has driven Lexus LS' for what, 16 years? 14 years something like that? He's no stranger to quality, I'd say he's probably an expert on what a quality automobile feels like and drives like. You don't think his being impressed by a Ford 500 is a good sign for Ford? I'd say it is.

[GLM]

I like how the Mercury version has the LED tail lights and the HIDs standard.

But it does seem a little underpowered. I don't really know what they were thinking, especially with the HP and Torque wars going on between other cars in the same class.

[1990LS400]

I wanted to resurrect this thread to post a few photos of the top-of-the-line Ford Five Hundred Limited my wife and I rented in Virgina last May for two weeks -- wonderful car -- was amazingly similar to our 2000 LS but with the much larger trunk space of the non-Ultra LS430.

Before we bought our first Lexus LS in early 1990, we had a 1979 Mercedes mid-size (W123) sedan that I purchased new. The photo of the similarly sized Mercedes 300E (W124) sedan parked next to the Ford shows how big the Ford 500 is.

While I was surprised at the size and comfort of the interior and the excellent quality (including fit and finish) of the materials, particularly the leather, what really blew me away was how much fun the Ford was to drive on the winding backroads of Virgina where we visited numerous historical sites and wineries. The six speed automatic gets a lot of performance out of the V6 and always seemed to find the exact right gear when driving mountain roads. And the huge trunk held cases of purchased wine and all our luggage with lots of space to spare.

We still love our 2000 LS! But, since we can't rent an LS when we travel, the Ford Five Hundred is the car I want to rent.

[SW03ES]

Yep, its definately a lot of car. Have you driven a Chrysler 300C?

[denslexusgx470]

wow. if it wasn't for the logo, it would pass as an LS!

[dcfish]

wow. if it wasn't for the logo, it would pass as an LS!

Please forgive me for the late post. Thanx, I first saw the 500 at the minneapolis auto show and my personal opinion is that it was plasticy, Typical ford run of the mill trying to compete auto. I would not buy/rent or recommend it. I think it would make a nice cab or fleet car only.

It is in no way even close to an LS. And never will be......................

[SW03ES]

Well...it is a moderately priced car. I agree with you that the build and the fit is not as nice as something like a Camry, but it also drives like and is a bigger and more substantial car than the Camry, as is a Chrysler 300. If I were looking for something in that range, I would seriously look at the two. In fact, had the Chrysler 300C been out when I bought my ES, I might even be driving one of them now.

It is in no way even close to an LS. And never will be......................

No, its not. It is however at its most expensive $40,000 less than an LS. You could buy two well equipped Ford 500s and a nice used boat for the cost of an LS. Or you could buy a 500 and an ES350 for your luxury itchings for the same cost. Something you have to keep in mind when comparing two different vehicles.

As for the vehicles relative driving characteristics when compared to an LS, considering that Jim has owned the Lexus LS for 15 years now and extensively drove a Ford 500 over a 2 week period when you have never owned an LS, and never driven a Ford 500. I'd say his opinion probably carries a teensy bit more weight than yours. I love it when people post "irrefutable" "these are the facts" answers like that and have absolutely no real world experience to back them up. And admittedly so! It astonishes me. Thats like me saying oh Greece is a trash heap and can never compare to what a trip to Rome has to offer when I've never been to either place! Lunacy.

My advice, drive the car and have an open mind before you pass judgement on it so you at least have some assemblence of experience to form your opinion. THEN its worth posting, and someone might care what you "reccomend" or "don't reccomend". As it is now, I'll trust Jim

[dcfish]

Well...it is a moderately priced car. I agree with you that the build and the fit is not as nice as something like a Camry, but it also drives like and is a bigger and more substantial car than the Camry, as is a Chrysler 300. If I were looking for something in that range, I would seriously look at the two. In fact, had the Chrysler 300C been out when I bought my ES, I might even be driving one of them now.

It is in no way even close to an LS. And never will be......................

No, its not. It is however at its most expensive $40,000 less than an LS. You could buy two well equipped Ford 500s and a nice used boat for the cost of an LS. Or you could buy a 500 and an ES350 for your luxury itchings for the same cost. Something you have to keep in mind when comparing two different vehicles.

As for the vehicles relative driving characteristics when compared to an LS, considering that Jim has owned the Lexus LS for 15 years now and extensively drove a Ford 500 over a 2 week period when you have never owned an LS, and never driven a Ford 500. I'd say his opinion probably carries a teensy bit more weight than yours. I love it when people post "irrefutable" "these are the facts" answers like that and have absolutely no real world experience to back them up. And admittedly so! It astonishes me. Thats like me saying oh Greece is a trash heap and can never compare to what a trip to Rome has to offer when I've never been to either place! Lunacy.

My advice, drive the car and have an open mind before you pass judgement on it so you at least have some assemblence of experience to form your opinion. THEN its worth posting, and someone might care what you "reccomend" or "don't reccomend". As it is now, I'll trust Jim

Well a 15 year old ls might drive like a new 500 ? Sure I have never owned an ls, I have driven them ( and intend on purchasing one or two ). I wouldn't want to drive/own a chrysler/ford/chevy/ and the list goes on... I will always own a lexus. My 93 es drives smoother than most new cars. No arguement her on how you feel/think about other car mfgr's. There is just no comparison between a ford and a lexus. If one wants room , Buy a bus/van/motorhome etc... As far as lunacy goes compare a 500 to a ls. We obviously disagree on this topic. So let's agree to disagree and live with it. ;)

[SW03ES]

Jim has a 2000 LS, his second. I don't disagree with you about the 500 vs an LS, nor do I think Jim does. I simply think he was impressed by how poised and solid the car was and how the ride and drive reminded him of his LS.

My only point was that its ignorant to write a vehicle off simply because of its manufacturer. If everybody did that, Lexus would have failed in the first year. People used to refuse to buy Toyotas because they didnt believe in Japanese quality. People have discounted Hyundais for years and now they're rated higher in initial quality than Lexus. Things change and the past is the past. The fact of the matter is the 500 is a very competent car, and a HUGE step forward for Ford. If you know anything about cars, you've got to respect that.

I also think its irresponsible to reccomend or not reccomend a product that you personally have never tried, but thats another topic.

[2007GS450H]

no no ford makes some very nice product

looks just like lexus

very very luxurious

[bartkat]

Ford Granada looks like Mercedes