Lexus Vs Mercedes

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Based on some of the comments made in my '2008 Lexus LS Hybrid - Photos' thread [and elsewhere] I'm curious.

In YOUR opinion - is Lexus considered an EQUAL to Mercedes-Benz?

OR do you feel that no matter what Lexus does - it can never REALLY be considered a top-tier, cream of the crop luxury car? [like the MB S-Class or BMW 7-Series]

Some say, "Mercedes is a wonderful car!!" And then they'll say, "Lexus is a wonderful car - FOR THE PRICE!!"

IF you don't think that Lexus and MB are equals - is there anything Lexus could ever do to become an MB equal?

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[lexus400]

MB has a very bad reputation the past 5-6 years. I would say just the opposite at this point...

[RFeldes]

Boy Craig, You've posed a a couple of tough questions.

"In YOUR opinion - is Lexus considered an EQUAL to Mercedes-Benz?"

Each has their upside but If I just arrived from another planet and compared them I would say yes they are both equal. Dollar for Dollar the Lexus is the better value including "build quality".

"IF you don't think that Lexus and MB are equals - is there anything Lexus could ever do to become an MB equal?"

I believe the problem is "public perception".

Mercedes says you've "arrived"

BMW and Lexus say you're "getting there" If you know what I mean.

IMHO Lexus has caught up to BMW but has a ways to go to catch Mercedes.

A start would be to field a car equal to or better than the S55. Time and price will tell if the LS600HL will be a step in the right direction.

Again, it's perception and status.

[1990LS400]

Geez, not another one of these threads. Here is a website that sums up my experiences with three Mercedes and the kinds of difficulties my Mercedes owning friends and neighbors are still experiencing: http://www.mercedesproblems.com/

[mehullica]

Having worked at Mercedes and Lexus dealers, Lexus is #1. Best quality, reliability, and overall experience. If you think Benz is better, go buy/drive those Eurotrash vehicles and watch your money go down the drain to rent a car while your "new" Benz is in the shop for weird over-engineered breakdowns.

[rwallican]

I know owners of both as well. Most cars are GREAT when you first get them.....no problems. But show me a 95 lexus vs. mercedes vs. bmw and i'll show you why lexus is best 9 times out of 10! My buddy recently bought an 05 bmw 745 and had it in the shop 7 times for 3 different electrical problems. Well, they ended up giving him another car. Now he is having problems with this one!!

Also, take a look at Consumer Reports year end edition and check the ratings for lexus as compared to other "luxury" vehicles.

[Rx330driver]

this is a tough question. I absolutely love both brands, and i grew up loving mercedes and knowing everything about it. Even though lexus cars are better built and now obviously are a better brand, i would still buy a mercedes. The problem with mercedes is that they are over priced and they are losing the battle in quality over the past few years, but you cant beat their "reputation" and brand name. Just the name, mercedes, say it to yourself, it sounds much better than lexus. And no matter what lexus can do to separate themselves with toyota, its still a toyota.

Id like to think this sums up what most people think out there

[areitu]

One of my friends had a 01 bmw 325 tiptronic and he'd beat on the car all day. Floor it everywhere, drive around town in 2nd or 3rd to hear the motor. Jumped it twice, took it out to re-enact the dakar rally in the desert more than a few times. Nothing ever broke, no lights ever came on, but the interior rubber got dirty easily and rubbed off after just 20,000 miles. :(

[RFeldes]

One of my friends had a 01 bmw 325 tiptronic and he'd beat on the car all day. Floor it everywhere, drive around town in 2nd or 3rd to hear the motor. Jumped it twice, took it out to re-enact the dakar rally in the desert more than a few times. Nothing ever broke, no lights ever came on, but the interior rubber got dirty easily and rubbed off after just 20,000 miles. :(

I think you meant leather..as my girlfriend's seats also chaffed after 13k miles. Not quality leather like the Lexus. I admit the bolstered seats take a beating but unacceptable.

[ko90ls]

i agree with rx330. i think the "NAME" Mercedes with it's rich history as the top of the line brand in most countries will not fold to Lexus. maybe in the long term as the Lexus line grows and more models are added, revised and new buyers are born, then they may have a chance. The person said it best on the other post, it's all in the price. My friend just bought a new E500. $60k base. GS430 $60 at the most. so if you can afford to buy a over priced car go ahead. everyone knows you just spent toooooooooo much on something that you could've gotten for cheaper but then again why to people still shop at Red Lobster, Long John Silvers has lobster bites (in Columbus). HAHA!

[SRK]

this is a tough question. I absolutely love both brands, and i grew up loving mercedes and knowing everything about it. Even though lexus cars are better built and now obviously are a better brand, i would still buy a mercedes. The problem with mercedes is that they are over priced and they are losing the battle in quality over the past few years, but you cant beat their "reputation" and brand name. Just the name, mercedes, say it to yourself, it sounds much better than lexus. And no matter what lexus can do to separate themselves with toyota, its still a toyota.

Id like to think this sums up what most people think out there

Speak for yourself. Your words do not sum up what most people think, and certainly not me.

You like the name Mercedes? It was adopted by Daimler for his cars when his business partner Jellinek advised naming them after his daughter, and it is a Spanish name. Sorry to say that Mercedes herself committed suicide early in life. So much for connotations.

Buy a Mercedes. I have owned a few. They were, and continue to be, when they run properly, excellent cars. However, I like cars to be reliable as well, and therefore I have bought Lexus recently. Perhaps I will buy something else one day. I doubt it.

Cars are highly personal. Every, and I mean EVERY manufacturer appeals to that aspect of human behaviour in their advertising. Everyone will fall for something. So who cares what you fall for? It's personal.

And on a personal note - Hello Craig, and I hope you are well.

SRK

[monarch]

Yes, Mercedes is a female Spanish name. Wikipedia has this to day about Mercedes-Benz:"In recent years the brand's reputation once sterling reliability record has been called into question when it was recently ranked rather low in consumer surveys. In one J.D. Powers and associates reliability survey it was ranked below Jaguar Cars, a company historically associated with notorious unreliability, but which has, under Ford's guidance, become one of the most reliable companies in the world, with its XJ model coming in first place in the 2003 British car customer satisfaction survey (Top Gear). In stark contrast, the Mercedes-Benz ML had an abysmal showing."

[jzz30]

the majority of the people here are going to say that lexus is better. why? hmmm....www.lexusownersclub.com....try going to a mercedes form and ask the same what do you think they are going to say? yup u got it!

but seriously nothing beats japanese cars in general.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Interesting replies. Thanks.

It does make one wonder [well - it makes ME wonder] just how much power our neighbour has when it comes to what we end up buying. [even among the more self-assured of us] I've known people who would "much rather" own a 15 year old MB C-Class with vinyl seats than a brand new Lexus LS. WHY? Well... "it's a MERCEDES!!" But when pushed for a more logical response - they're not really sure why either.

And I wonder how many of us [myself included] would take all the identifying badges OFF of our cars and replace them with 'Hyundai' or 'Pontiac' badges - even IF we were paid $1,000 to do so.

It would be interesting to see the results of a road test of 10 brand new cars that were stripped of ALL identifying badges and ask a group of people [who don't really know cars] which one THEY liked best. This sort of reminds me of what my mom has been saying lately. This may sound odd [she tells me] but she doesn't know how to feel about the fact that every time she sees a small SUV that she likes - it's a Hyundai!!

Craig!! :)

PS Hi SRK. I'm OK. I hope you're OK too!! :)

[1990LS400]

Well Craig, I guess our neighbors have as much influence over us as we allow them to have. There are four Mercedes S-class cars in three households in my culdesac. I could not care less. I do feel somewhat sorry for them knowing the hassles I had with my three past Mercedes cars and how much time and money I spent at the local Mercedes dealer.

I've used this license plate frame on my two LS400's since 1990. It explains what I think of "image" cars. I'm not looking for an "image" when I buy a car - I just want a well made, reliable, safe and comfortable car.

[SRK]

I've used this license plate frame on my two LS400's since 1990. It explains what I think of "image" cars. I'm not looking for an "image" when I buy a car - I just want a well made, reliable, safe and comfortable car.

Very cool! I like your idea - another example of saying something first your own way and not waiting for someone else to say it and claim it!

Everything is going well here Craig, thanks!

[jainla]

I think you are actually asking 2 questions here; who has the stronger brand and who makes better cars.

I think from an empirical standpoint the win for the cars goes to Lexus. In comparison test after comparison test (and I can think of at least 8 over the last 17 years and I am sure there are more) Lexus wins. By most measurable standards; the cars are more reliable and better put together (My LS feels like a Rolls Royce inside compared to the same generation S Class). Recently they are also much easier to use and live with in everyday life. While Mercedes has come up with some really useful and groundbreaking new technology some of it can be considered superfluous and gimmicky (COMMAND controller anyone?), but such is the price of progress. Toyota has also made many technical innovations in the last 17 years, and many consider them of more value to the motoring experience; and they don't wreak havoc with the car's reliability. Factor in price and Lexus wins hands down.

The strength of the brand is another matter however. Mercedes Benz has 100+ years of experience and history to draw upon when establishing their brand in the marketplace, and apparently it still matters for a lot of people. Having a car from the people that 'invented the automobile' has a certain cachet, and for people who grew up watching rich successful people drive Mercedes Benz they are fullfilling a dream. I'm sure the aura of the 300SL and countless other models flashes through owners minds when they walk into a showroom.

You can however take a brand focused on marketing too far. In the mid '90s Mercedes decided that in order to increase sales, and take advantage of the emerging 'luxury' lifestyle they had to up the ante in their brand image. They switched the marketing and branding from focusing on the engineering of their cars to a more style/feeling focus. Instead of selling the car as a technical achievement, they sold it as a lifestyle. It worked; Mercedes sales soared, but in order to reduce the price of entry (and increase sales and profits) the cars were built to a marketing pricepoint instead of high engineering standards (the opposite of the approach in the past). Witness the cheaper interiors and failing components that post 95 cars have suffered. They are still paying the price for this.

It was not always so. the MB cars from the 80's and early 90's were well made cars that were reliable and also technically advanced. My '81 240D still starts on the first crank, and continues to run well at 189,000 miles. In the 12 years i have owned it is has broken down and stranded me exactly 2 times; both for minor maintenance items like an alternator or battery. However this entry level car would probably cost $50,000+ in today's dollars; far more than the C Class does.

Ignoring such problems can almost destroy a brand. Witness Rolls Royce, who still had a sterling brand image but because of lack of investment arguably made terrible cars before being taken over by BMW. The Rolls of the 80's-2000 were terrible cars by most measurable standards; obsolete, inefficient, unreliable, and ruinously expensive to buy and repair. In certain markets such as Florida their clients defected in droves to Lexus when it was launched. Let's hope Mercedes does not continue down that road.

Lexus and Toyota don't have that vast well of experience and history to draw on - yet. Part of that is the inital focus only in the US of the Lexus brand, and a lack of a coordinated, global branding gameplan. But young people today see are starting to see Lexus as a luxury brand. At the last TOL even I went to the vast number of people there were college juniors and seniors, so I think the tide is changing. Already the Toyota brand, about 30 some years in, has a more favorable image than any domestic brand and even other Asian brands; and Scion is a huge success in its demographic. So they can do it.

Also I think Toyota also has not historically paid the attention to marketing with Lexus that Mercedes has. They have not historically sponsored sporting and other high profile events, for example but this is changing. With Lexus being launched in brand-hypersensitive Japan they will have to create an image, an aura of what it's like to be and own Lexus. You can see for yourself on the Japanese Lexus site that they are trying to sell much more of a feeling and a lifestyle than a car.

If I have learned one thing about cars, it's this: Never ever EVER underestimate Toyota. Chapter 2 I think has yet to be written in this particular saga.

and PS 1990LS400--among my friends I too refer to my car as the "Big Toyota"

[Rx330driver]

well safety is a strong point for mercedes, unless the airbags fail to pop out for some german reason :P

[Jacob]

Lexus and Toyota don't have that vast well of experience and history to draw on

Am I missing something here? Are you saying that Toyota doesn’t have much experience because it’s younger than Mercedes?

[Rx330driver]

not necessarily experience, but strong reputation

[jainla]

Lexus and Toyota don't have that vast well of experience and history to draw on

Am I missing something here? Are you saying that Toyota doesn’t have much experience because it’s younger than Mercedes?

Not experience, but brand exposure and history. Mercedes cars in the 50's and 60's were seen as premium products and even style icons in their day. Toyotas were originally known as being seen as cheap and reliable; but hardly style icons or a prestige brand.

Lexus has only been around for 17 years, and mostly popular in the US, so they don't yet have a whole stable of iconic cars to reference in their sales and marketing efforts; or to recall in people's memories. They have some very good ones (i.e the first generation SC, the LS) but they also haven't been pushing as hard to get these cars media play. Also to be fair the luxury import class was far less crowded 50 years ago than it is now.

I think it will just take a little time. The new L-finesse language, love it or hate it, is very original and more importantly differentiates the Lexus brand from Toyota and other Asian brands. Being distinctive is part of the game in developing strong brand identity.

[Dust]

Reliability - Lexus

Performance - Mercedes

Luxury - Both

You decide.

[92ls forhundo]

i like dusts simplified take on it. It seems that lexus is quickly gaining the knowledge and wherewithall to soundly re;reliably, creep into the performance end of all as well......

[SW03ES]

Do I think Lexus is MB's equal is design and engineering? No, I think Lexus is MB's superior in these areas. Having driven MANY MBs and Lexuses I can honestly tell you I like Lexus better. There are only two MBs I've ever really been interested in:

1. The S class, but I don't find the new one appealing.

2. The new CLS sedan. Its a beautiful, and unique automobile.

Otherwise I find Lexus vehicles much more appealing, comfortable, and better made.

Now, as far as prestige, MB definately still has the upper hand here and it may always. However, when you look at the sales figures obviously buyers don't take that much issue with that since Lexus vehicles sell so well.

I'd love the 3 pointed star, and probably will have one one day just for the experience, butI have a feeling I'll always come back to the Lexus brand.

[PharmGuy]

Hey Craig,

I'm not sure about the cars, but when I was buying my RX-300, I drove 2 ML-320's, and I must

say, they rode like TRUCKS! The ride was rough, neither seemed very quiet, didn't seem to be quality vehicles (even though it was a MB dealership), and lastly the one that I liked had low miles,

but looked like it was driven 80% off-road.

I know Mercedes has had years of excellence, but they need to still work harder. Resting on your

past....only seems to give you a history. I would buy another Lexus, and probably will.

PharmGuy

(Paul)