smooth1

That's a nice tuck job bro! Slammed looks great! Work rims? what suspension are you on?

FLF is just a troll. But it's ok. I think it's funny and quite amusing. It's like talking to Archie Bunker.

Then you are bipolar ;) ......... where's my meds.........

Yeah cause GM didn't try to hide it's defective ABS systems for years, and years, and years...and I think they are still battling out. And that issue may or may not over shadow the spark plug ejecting cover up, and Ford has known about it's cruise control issues for way longer than it was covered in the news. Heck, Lincoln/Mercury paid millions in advertising hush money to keep their "unintended stuck accelerator trajedy out of the news when their car killed it's driver and passenger 7 years earlier. You do remember the media flogging they got right? Just like the one Toyota just got? Oh, that's right, it never happened. Toyota pulled their advertising dollars instead. That was Toyota's huge mistake here! Well, it's good to see all those billions of dollars GM took from us to pay the magazines to recreate a new image for themselves is getting through. The only problem here is it's complete BS. If you take away just fleet sales, I'm talking car sales to Enterprise car rentals and Budget and those that purchase on short term price and by contracts alone, GM, Ford and Chrysler can not compete in sales, even in just the US market, or especially in the US market. It's the crippling labor unions that have locked up the car companies and hence they will never be able to truly level the playing field. When was the last time american car company innovated something? or lead the technology advancements in true automotive design? Not since the 60's.Unless, you count Lee Iococa's K car concept that did help bring the unibody construction to the forefront, but then again it made car building cheaper, so of course the american car companies jumped on that one! LOL!! take a real look around, for example, the 4 door mid size sedan market. Lexus GS Mercedes Benz E 350 BMW 5 series Acura TL Audi A6 Hyundai Genesis Mazda 6 Toyota Camery Volkswagen Passat Honda Accord Then we look at us, Ford Taurus, really, this car just came back last year. It was discontinued for almost 10 years! Where's Ford loyalty? Ford Thunderbird, (gone, discontinued.) after being turned into the retro POS!! and completely ruined the legacy. Chevy Malibu ( You've got to be kidding me right? Until 2 or 3 years ago this wasn't even considered a real car any more. And even now, while yes, it does look alot better, it's still the same POS underneath!) Buick Regal ( this just looks like a bad imitation of a real luxury car and what is up with the "retro" modern grill contraption thing? Cadillac STS/ CTS This is the best I think we are doing right now, but it's still no where near to their Asian and European counterparts. Dodge Charger I'm sorry, but these cars are just designed for kids. There is just no sophistication in anything here. Chrysler 300- Look, it has 22's!!! Frod Crown Vic- Discontinued. The real american car of all time, ended. with No evolution. Why do all the american cars have to be a "gimmick." Look at the Camaro. Why does the interior of that car have to look like a matchbox car interior? Slide into a Nissan GTR and look at that interior! NOW YOUR TALKING! Even the Ford Mustang was all hokey until this last year it finally is starting to look like a real car inside! Geeze, where to start with this one.........first mistake, Taurus was replaced by the Five Hundred for ONE year, not 10. Thunderbird was on most recommended lists because of its quality. Lexus? Innovative? The first Lexus looked EXACTLY like a Mercedes. You know it, we all know it. And the first ES? A tarted up Camry. Sophistication? No. The Lexus can't self-park on declines.......hell, even a Focus can do that. Cadillac is now considered by the press as being equal to Lexus. Charger? It fits its market. Crown Vic, being replaced by the Taurus. Lincoln? A 3 year-old Lincoln is more dependable than a 3 year-old Lexus. Lincoln was #1 in reliabilty. Read the study. The government will probably MAKE money from its loans to GM. Lexus is made in the US. Toyota/Lexus engineering is not what it's been hyped up to be. Too many recalls, too many deaths. I'll buy American from now on. Keep the money, jobs here. Please get your facts right before you make such untrue comments on this site. I for one am not drinking anymore Toyota/Lexus Kool-Aid. Too many have died. Actually, they discontinued the Taurus, then came out with the 500, which was a completely different chassis and drivetrain, then renamed the 500 with the Taurus name again. Which it's been the "500" ever since. So, ok, about 6 years. This thing? Oh, that's right, you probably wanted to forget this travesty as much as the rest of us! Which even today is still years ahead of anything GM, Ford and Chrysler have done! Maybe the Detroit 3 need to pay attention! What you just said is exactly part of the problem! American cars are ugly! Even to Americans! After Lexus showed them it was possible in the first place. Lexus atleast had an original idea. Well, funny you should bring this up, because in 2007 the only american based Lincoln Murcury factory closed down, and the only two left are 1 in Ontario Canada and the other is in Hermosillo, Sonora Mexico. So, I would imagine that in the last 3 years their reliability rating have gone up. And by the way, the Ford Focus you mentioned is imported by Ford from Hai Duong Vietnam, Azambuja Portugal, Santa Rosa, Laguna Philippines, St. Petersburg Russia, Norlane, Victoria Australia, Valencia Spain, and also in Sonora Mexico. That car isn't even made in the US! Here's the Wall Street Journals report on total car sales for the last 30 days. http://online.wsj.co...-autosales.html Now heres the Fleet sales reports for the same 30 days. http://www.automotiv...Up-in-July.aspx So if you subtract those numbers from their total sales, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai would all be kicking GM, Ford and Chrysler's butt in sales by people who actually CHOOSE what car they want. And guess who's buying those fleet vehicles to keep the numbers up? You and I are! We buy them with our tax dollars as we HAVE to use Ford, GM or Chrysler for all the police cars, mail trucks, government vehicles, etc. etc. So how exactly did I make any money off the whole GM bail out thing again? Just think about the 1,000's of cars and trucks we buy from companies that know you have to buy them. Yeah, this formula never works and their line up shows it. GM and Ford have catered to the Fleet vehicle sales for years. While all the other car mfgr's have been evolving thier ergonomic designs, actually responding to the consumers like real families and the next generation car buyer. Advancing safety and technology and making them appealing to us. The service centers and the dealership themselves need to be completely revamped and a new philosophy needs to be established. I don't wanna haggle with some coffee breathe chain smoker in the parking lot! I don't want to look forward to cheap hard plastic chairs in the service waiting room and a cheap 19'' TV with rabbit ears pulling in Oprah reruns, while getting my side messaged by the vending machine I need to lean on to make room for the mom and 4 kids and a baby buggy. The Lexus waitng room is paradise in comparison! Yeah, I bought all this with the car just as much as I bought the niegborhood my house is in! Our Lexus dealership in my opinion is a model for how I think all dealership service centers should be. The next time I go there I'll take pictures of the waiting room. I'm not kidding. I'ts like 2 really huge living rooms! Big screen Hi Def TV's with cable, all carpeted and softly and warmly lit. Huge couches and recliners with pillows. A seperate internet cafe, and they provide the computers at seperate stations, or you can use your own laptop, theres a glass "quiet" room for book readers, and there's a seperate "noise proof" room for the kids to go in and play. They have a cafeteria with complimentary drinks and snacks, heck they've even brought and offered me warm baked cookies while I was in the waiting room! and then went around and offered everyone else that was there as well. This is a car service center? Man does GM and Ford have alot to learn. So what in the last year or two, suddenly GM and Ford and Chrysler now really care about me huh? And I'm just supposed to jump right back on and buy for the purpose of american pride. Well, where's the pride in making a car that I actually want to buy? I pay my taxes. So I already buy american cars because they make us. Where the spirit of free market in that? How is this more American? They made the game rules not me. I now refuse to buy a GM period. Ford atleast is trying, and Chrysler will hopefully let Fiat "design" a car for a change. You know, I'm not going to sit here and tit for tat over adjacent points. The truth is we taught the Japanese everything we know, and they are kicking our butt's with it, and using the same tactics we showed them back against us, and now we're sniveling and crying fowl as a tool to try and talk people into buying american made cars again. And somehow if your the "largest car mfgr. then that must mean your the best" mentality will continue. It's the only way GM can survive. Let me say something here about myself so when you need to insult me you have a little more insight. I am an old Chevy man! My dad is one of the areas most respected Ford race engine builders around. We have a 7 second Mustang. There is nothing more that I would like to see is a real car roll off the GM or Ford lines again. But the truth is the truth, and I live my life in the real world. So I drive a Mercedes Benz ML 350, a Lexus IS 350, a Lexus IS 300 Turbo, and a Volkswagen Jetta 2.5. I have a 1969 Camaro convertable in the waiting to rebuild some day rack, and a 71 Cuda that was wrecked and sold to me cheap. Why is it that when we all talk about american cars, the conversation always goes to the 60 and 70's?

Yeah cause GM didn't try to hide it's defective ABS systems for years, and years, and years...and I think they are still battling out. And that issue may or may not over shadow the spark plug ejecting cover up, and Ford has known about it's cruise control issues for way longer than it was covered in the news. Heck, Lincoln/Mercury paid millions in advertising hush money to keep their "unintended stuck accelerator trajedy out of the news when their car killed it's driver and passenger 7 years earlier. You do remember the media flogging they got right? Just like the one Toyota just got? Oh, that's right, it never happened. Toyota pulled their advertising dollars instead. That was Toyota's huge mistake here! Well, it's good to see all those billions of dollars GM took from us to pay the magazines to recreate a new image for themselves is getting through. The only problem here is it's complete BS. If you take away just fleet sales, I'm talking car sales to Enterprise car rentals and Budget and those that purchase on short term price and by contracts alone, GM, Ford and Chrysler can not compete in sales, even in just the US market, or especially in the US market. It's the crippling labor unions that have locked up the car companies and hence they will never be able to truly level the playing field. When was the last time american car company innovated something? or lead the technology advancements in true automotive design? Not since the 60's.Unless, you count Lee Iococa's K car concept that did help bring the unibody construction to the forefront, but then again it made car building cheaper, so of course the american car companies jumped on that one! LOL!! take a real look around, for example, the 4 door mid size sedan market. Lexus GS / ES Mercedes Benz E Class BMW 5 series Acura TL Audi A6 Volvo S60 Hyundai Genesis Mazda 6 Toyota Camery Volkswagen Passat Honda Accord Nissan Maxima Then we look at us, Ford Taurus, really, this car just came back last year. It was discontinued for almost 10 years! Where's Ford loyalty? Ford Thunderbird, (gone, discontinued.) after being turned into the retro POS!! and completely ruined the legacy. Chevy Malibu ( You've got to be kidding me right? Until 2 or 3 years ago this wasn't even considered a real car any more. And even now, while yes, it does look alot better, it's still the same POS underneath!) Buick Regal ( this just looks like a bad imitation of a real luxury car and what is up with the "retro" modern grill contraption thing? Cadillac STS/ CTS This is the best I think we are doing right now, but it's still no where near to their Asian and European counterparts. Dodge Charger I'm sorry, but these cars are just designed for kids. There is just no sophistication in anything here. Chrysler 300- Look, it has 22's!!! Frod Crown Vic- Discontinued. The real american car of all time, ended. with No evolution. Pontiac Closed, out of business Plymouth Closed, out of business Saturn Closed out of business Why do all the american cars have to be a "gimmick." Look at the Camaro. Why does the interior of that car have to look like a matchbox car interior? Slide into a Nissan GTR and look at that interior! NOW YOUR TALKING! Even the Ford Mustang was all hokey until this last year it finally is starting to look like a real car inside!

What if you drive a Mercedes and a Lexus?

All the work orders that come in and out of shops these days are CYA all the way. The Tire Store manager is being stupid. There's plenty of room on the work orders to type : Customer requests new tire installation on front of vehicle. Explained why they should be on rear, customer restated first request be done anyway. Total : $699.95 + Tax Date, and signed. in triplicate and a copy given to the customer. We go thru this every day. think about this also then, you bring in your car and ask for an oil change. While it's in they see your brakes are almost worn out, your tire wear is 90%, and you need an alignment. So it's $600 for the brakes, $400.00 for the tires and $199.00 (we're having a special) for the alignment. Tech notifies you of this and you say your broke, no way, just change the oil. Oil gets changed and the car is returned. If they drive out of there and go down the street and crash, that's not the shops fault or liability. The owner was notified of the conditions and elected not to perform the work. And by what I read here, if you said yes to the brakes, but no to the tires and alignment, they would have to tell you it's all or nothing. " I'm sorry lenore, but according to our lawyers interpretation of the liabilities laws, unless we can fix everything we see wrong with your car, if we released it back to you, even with your being made aware of the issues, we would be liable. And by the way, we can't give you back your car until the issues are corrected because of the obvious reasons we have already established.

Yeah, what he said!

Your welcome.

Seriously..why I was so dumb to let my car services by a bunch of "know nothing" ...and feel so dumb when I posted my question .. I wasn't directing that at you, and I hope you didn't take it personally. It just infuriates me when I see these $9.00 an hour tire shop labor guys posing as a real "auto technician" and say some of the dumbest things I've ever heard! There isn't a single guy in the shop that if you walked up to him or her and said " 18's on the front and 17"s on the rear that wouldn't do a quick double take and ask you why and what is going on there with that. And this guy said he suggests it???? Really?? LOL!!

Well, if you think the manufacture recommended tire pressure is to low, then of course you would think the brakes are to soft. I would be surprised if you didn't think the suspension was too soft as well. Anyway, I don't know how many miles you have on the car now, and where you are at with your maintenance schedule, but you pretty much have to change the discs at the same time you change your pads anyway. I suggest when that next time comes, change the discs to a harder disc, and get pads with a higher initial bite. A good semi metallic like EBC Greens would probably work. The only other thing you can do would be to change the brake lines to steel braided to prevent the line flex, which would makes you brakes much more responsive during initial braking, and provide alot more feel.

I feel dumber after reading that.

You just bought 19's? what ones? Do you have pics? What styles do you like? Why don't you narrow it down to like 3 or 4 and post the pictures of them and we'll tell you which ones we think looks the best.

Apple won't allow alot of their direct functions to be copied. Up to the 5th generation you could use any player to receive video, but for some reason Apple stopped that also. SO, it's not the interface modules, although there are some that are better than others, none I have seen do what your asking. Just be happy that Apple still thinks it's profitable to be able to interface it with other stereo systems. The best way to use ipods on intergrated car stereos is to create playlists. Such as the "a" list and the B list. Or set up the Driving mix playlists. Then you can just skip from playlist to playlist.

How do your tires look? What percentage would you say is left on them?

You actually only got about 3k miles less than what is expected. The Pilot's your looking at don't even have a mileage warranty. 15-20K miles on them is what you should expect. Pay off your loans and get a different car. If you put cheapo tires on that car, your wasting your time and money.

Yeah, I can't even look at GM product anymore without being embarrassed for us. This is the best the US has to offer the world in automobiles???????? Really???? Frickin Hyundai who just started making cars 15 years ago are moving faster and further than GM in a shorter amount of time! GM's been making cars now what 70-80 years? Probably a total unit count of billions of cars made.....and still can't get it right?

I wasn't trying to highlight or point to "they have bigger problems than anyone else." I was just pulling the most common issues I see to make the point that the grass isn't any greener over there. Your really just exchanging the problems your going to have. I can't and don't. My last purchase was a Mercedes Benz 6 months before the stuck accelerator issue, and then I bought the wife a Volkswagen Jetta just last year. Both European mfgrs. I thought the pendulum was swinging back to them and jumped on board this time. I still have the IS 350. And I've had no issues with any of our cars. What I think is Toyota got greedy and wanted the #1 spot,,,and it may have become no matter what, and at all costs..the general formula for destruction. And I see Hyundai much the same way.

When Lexus brought over the LS400, it already had a 10 year evolution and was already hailed as one of the best built cars around the world. Lexus used what they already built to prove in america they can build cars. And by the way, on the Hyundai forums is where your going to learn the truth about them. Just like here. I cruise the forums there quite a bit. I see: "like a paint chip that fell off the rear quarter panel (with no apparent cause), I closed the door and watched it fall off." "highway-speed balance that they just couldn't get quite right, and the dreaded clunky suspension that others have addressed repeatedly with their dealers, at the cost of much time & energy, and to no avail. Hyundai had revised the shock absorber three times and nothing helped." "the finish on all the cars' wheels was staining a little around the edges, which was unsightly. All of that was (barely) within tolerance for a car at this price point and again, with the excellent feature content. Then, almost at the same time, both of our cars developed the double-dreaded dashboard airbag seam crack. Both were replaced under warranty - one required follow-up work because the dashboard was not re-assembled correctly - with exactly the same part as the outgoing part. " "Many Genesis sedans in Korea suddenly stops(engine dies) and won't accelerate fast enough, and finally Hyundai admitted that ECU might be bad. Hyundai said it's NOT a serious problem since it can be fixed simply by replacing ECUs. Korean government will do investigation and release the result at the end of this year to decide whether Hyundai should recall Genesis or not. Don't buy Genesis now if you are planning on buying one in the future. Buy it after this issue is resolved. Sorry to say this, but Hyundai is a shady company and I don't trust their products. Good luck." These are the most common issues I see, among a few others. So, it's like I keep saying......If all car companies have some issues with their cars, and all your really doing is trading problems, then I would think it's way better to stay with what you know, and the car companies that prove over and over again they want your business, and are willing to go the extra lengths it takes to keep you coming back. Maybe their cars a bit more, but in the long run, the trade offs aren't worth it to me. The Hyundai family values and direction matter to me. I just don't see that they have any. Working with Hyundai is almost like working with a big bank anymore. They advertise low cost junk and free to get you in the door. Then when you walk out, how much did you really save after owning the car? was it really worth it?

I said a luxury line that competes with and beats MB and BMW. I don't think Lincoln-Mercury are even close! Do you?

I haven't liked GM very much lately, and I think Ford is the best America has to offer right now, I think I want to wait a few more years to see what Fiat is going to really do with Dodge/Chrysler, could be good, maybe......I'm not holding my breathe....Honda/Aqura looks goofy and wedgey. I don't know. They got a techy look thing going but still haven't really figured it out yet. Toyota/Lexus I think is going back into another identity crisis. The GS is due for a revamp, the LS is getting beat now, What's next for the IS, and the SUV's are out of step with everything else it seems, and the only thing they have again is the Corolla, Camary, and 4Runner. Nissan just released the awsome rocket GTR, and everything else get's lumped into everything else for them. They always seem to me like an "Asian Cadillac" impression. LOL!! Which brings me to Cadillac. Man I hope they just keep going. They are on the right track, but I think they need a couple more model evolutions to get there, and they need to focus more on the driver interaction and feel. I think of Hyundai/Kia like MDF. It has it's uses but you would never make your fine furniture out of it. No matter how good the laminate. Is Suzuki still making cars???? well, I think that question answers what's going on over there right now anyway. I think Volkswagon/Audi is hot right now. There cars "feel" so much better in so many ways it's not even funny right now. Merc Benz I think just reclaimed the #1 spot. The new E550 with the pano roof, built in drivers massage and active positioning monitor, along with the new interior design........and the S550......these are the top of the ring right now. BMW is just a tick or two behind in the 5 series to the E class, but the 3 series is way better than the MB 3 series, and I have been a very long time Volvo fan and I have to say their new car line up is looking much nicer, and the suspension system component upgrades I've been seeing are going to go along way to helping Volvo get back some market share. The new S60 is shocking to hear it's a Volvo. I wish american made cars could really come back. Ford needs to start a new luxury car line that competes with MB and BMW. And beats them! We need a champion again. Back in the 60's the Mustangs and Camaro's were kicking everyone butt. BMW's and MB's were laughed at...but not now. Not any more, atleast not by anyone still driving one of those. We stood still, and they kept advancing and evolving. I even drive a MB now! LOL!!!

Your reasoning begs the question that if something is no good, why does it become popular? Is Madison Ave. advertising that good, that it can fool all of the people all of the time? I give my fellow consumers a little credit for being smarter than you do. No offense. Well, as for consumers smarts........that would be an entirely different discussion, but I agree, I don't think the "mass consumer group" as a whole is a very smart bunch at all. But my point here was much more specific. Let's first remove any bias we may have about certian car makers for a moment, and just look at the overall history and evolution. What has really happened here is that the top car makers have become so good at making cars, that 60-75% as good is still more than most people would ever need anyway now. Look at the rocket ships MB and BMW are making! 550 hp V8 stock!!!!!!! the Lexus IS-F. The Nissan GTR. Those were super car numbers just 10 years ago. I remember when a 350 hp 350 cid engine was the marvel of all the car shows and no one was producing anything like what we are seeing today. Take a 1995 BMW M3. Off the showroom floor it produced 195 hp. today, the same car produces 420 hp. And look at all the new toys that cars come with today...Nav, keyless, 800 watt super stereo systems, automatic just about everything. So if a stout businessman decided to start a new car company, do you actually try to compete???? or just make a car that rides smooth, maybe not as state of the art, and instead of pushing the limits of technology and looking for ways to make it better, they use "other" methods and materials, and instead of 400 + hp, let's use a 300 hp engine. You see. the car itself is engineered to be the "middle of the road", or "good enough". So of course it's going to be cheaper. They didn't have to pay for all the R&D it took to get this good. I'm not for or against any one in the car industry. I understand that each car maker has a different set of goals and how they achieve those is according to thier philosophy. Whatever works. But just because your popular doesn't mean your the best, and the "best" can mean alot of different things to alot of different people. Everyone has a right to their point of view on this. I just don't like the idea that the car I am driving is engineered to be "middle of the pack." and then justify it with a lower price tag.

?????

Remember that popularity is only a measure of being popular. Just because things become popular doesn't mean they are better or any good at all for that matter. I'm reminded of the 70's- 80's when home stereos started becoming "popular". Before the Japanese electronics invasion, hi-fi stereos were purely a luxury item. Names like Macintosch, Phillips, Marantz, and a few others pretty much blazed the trail for reproducing sound as acquriately and completely as technology would allow. They put in years and who knows how much money into the pursuit of perfect sound reproduction. I've heard a tube amplifier made by Carver that's about 30 years old on a set of Paradigm Espirit speakers at decibel levels you can't scream to each other over even if your standing next to each other, and the sound is so amazingly real, there is no way possible, that if you were blind folded you could tell the difference between live or recorded. In fact, as I stood there and closed my eyes, my ears could easliy create a picture in my head of the exact location of each instrument. The drums sounded as if they were in the rear, the guitar was on the left side and the singer was out in front. I could in my mind, look across the stage and "hear/see" the stacks of amplifiers and speakers thumpin it out. You could "feel" the spaciousness of the stage. Just like when I was actually at the concert. Man, was I amazed, and convinced! So along comes the Japanese transistor radio......made by of course....Sony. Changed everything. Pioneer, JVC, Kenwood, oh man the list goes on, and doesn't everyone know these names? Suddenly, you could go to the store, like Circuit City, or Best Buy, and for about 500 or 600 bucks walk out with a 100 watt per channel amplifier, a double cassette deck, remember all the bouncing and flashing light EQ's?, a turntable on the top, a beautiful wood or glass multi shelf stand, and two huge speakers that seemed to sound pretty good. And at that time, a thousand dollars would barely buy the speakers alone from the high end "audiophile" grade stereos. What the heck was going on? Either the audiophiles were just crazy over marking up thier stuff, or the Japanese stereo was just the deals of the century! So fast forward to now. And look around. High end audiophile stereo companies are still here making high end stereos. But the "popular" thing now has become Mp3 players and micro systems. No more big rack stereo's being made by all these huge electronics names anymore. And still about 5 or 600 bucks.Interesting. So, my take is, For people who listen to music while vacuuming, or working in the garage, and while cooking dinner, "middle of the road" stuff is more than they will ever really need anyway, so the JVC mini rack is more than enough sound. But for the passionate, and much more dedicated listener, which whom there will always be, a Mark Levinson complete home sound system is the ultimate goal and still a bargain!! It's never going to change. I wonder what the name of the next car company to be "new challengers of" what ever segment will be next?

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