smooth1

http://autos.aol.com/article/global-traffic-jams/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl10%7Csec1_lnk3%7C218206 I didn't hear about this 60 mile traffic jam that lasted for a few days??? Really? LOL! So.......now what....we're buying to many cars? I never thought about it before, but yeah, I guess it's possible huh? I wonder if there is any math out there that's calculated how many cars per square mile or linear mile of road, and at what number it becomes a real issue, and where we are in relationship to that number right now?

Ok, so it finally came in today. 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 : It had 8 miles on it when I picked it up this morning.

I can't believe Honda only has the minivan on the list, and not a Toyota among them! http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/dc2011/ I don't agree with all of these while I can understand some of the others. I guess it's hip to hate Toyota now? The magazines are really beating on them for not spending enough advertising money with them.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52475 There some other "how to's" in the IS 300 forum.

So, I have an update on this whole fiasco! They were originally telling me that the truck would be here in about 2 or 3 weeks. I never really gave it much thought. So, now that 3 weeks have gone by, and when I call them I seem to get the full run around the city, not just the block. My question was if they said it would be here in 2 or 3 weeks, and it's been 3 weeks, what did you order and from whom? Has it shipped out yet or is it still sitting there? All I seemed to be getting was that glass over look when you ask your 12 year old child why the cat is bald and the back yard grass is all painted blue...... ""UUUhhh, I dunno..." But I'll say that I remained patient and I haven't been a jerk, but that doesn't mean I'll accept vague answers and be allowed to be pushed around. So, after asking "What is on order?" they finally answered...." Nothing." Chrysler has stopped taking orders for 2011. They tried to get mine in, thought they would be able to, but can't. So, my next question.....What are you doing now then? They said they WERE trying to locate a vehicle that fit my requirements and color. They really thought they wouldn't have a problem locating one, it would just take a couple extra days and some extra work..........But they said they have combed the US and nothing. Last week when we spoke he said they did have one, but the report came back.....Hail Damaged. So they had to keep looking. My next question.......So what's next?....Where is my ML so I can call the police and we can get the report done for the insurance companies. I was told ok, and taken to the back lot where my ML was sitting. I asked if they would call them for me and I would just wait there. He said ok and left. I would say about 20 minutes later the GM came out and of course started to give me the whole apology paragraph. I really just told him that the only reason he wants to apologize to me is to make himself feel better. It has nothing to do with me. This was a matter of what you will do and won't do, not a can or can't scenario. And I walked away and got in my ML and sat there. After another 10 minutes he sent a salesperson out to ask me to come in to his office. I explained that I wasn't really interested in hearing their apologies already and really just want to get this whole nightmare over with. He left and came back and asked me to talk to the GM again please. So I got out and walked in to his office. I didn't say a word he did all the talking. Basically he said I was exactly right about the apology, and he felt terribly embarrased. He said he's "never been called out like that before." So, after talking with me he called the owner again, then spoke with some "John" person on his staff, and said (I'll quote here) " John has a fully loaded Overland 4x4 in Silver with black leather interior. They already have it at another lot and can have it here in 5-7 business days." exact same price they already negotiated on my behalf. This truck would have been another $5 or $6K. It has everything the Limited does and alot more. I will make the phone call and make this deal happen right now on your say so." I asked to see the window sticker and go over everything again. He said no problem, called some people in, within a few minutes I had the invoice in my hand, along with the vin number and complete option and standard features listed on this specific truck. I looked it over. I have to say in my head I'm looking at this option package and thinking to myself I would be really stupid and stuborn to not give this another week for such a great possible outcome. So I said ok and signed it. He picked up the phone, spoke with some Jeremy person and my truck will be getting loaded up Monday, and should be here by the end of the week. It's coming from Maryland or New York. So, now I'm getting a Silver 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 with black leather interior. Basically the same color combo I have now with the MB. I can live with that. But now, I'll have a fully loaded top of the line everything GC! It even comes with the fully adjustable air suspension system now! (I'm on the fence about weather or not to be happy or afraid of this option. I've heard alot of conflicting stories about air suspension systems.) So we'll have to see. But I guess it also further upgrades the leather, and has tons of options I may never even use, but hey.....at this point it's free! I'm not really a person who jumps at the word "free". I like knowing that everything I own I earned. But in this case, I think I have earned this. So, I have to wait another week. I'm still driving their Durango. What's one more week.

And all this time I thought it was only me! LOL!! Like maybe only my arms extend under my shoulders and everyone else has longer necks?

You got em??!!! That's awsome! Military rules is 2x's full restitution isn't it? And a promotion to next rank for uncommon support and looking the other way. LOL!!

Yeah, I've always found it quite funny how politicians can raise hundreds of millions of dollars for ad campaigns to get elected and then look us square in the face and say there just isn't enough money in the budgets for educational programs, the arts, public schools and medical services. I read a bumper sticker once: "It would be a great day in history when our education system had enough books, computers and highly advanced programs for learning and our military had to have a bake sale to buy a new bomb."

Oh they are VERY lucky it wasn't the Lexus! I don't even want to think about if that had happened!

I agreed with you....LOL!!.. what I did say was don't buy a first year model, which due to the forces of nature, I have just done. I'm hoping this will be the exception to the rule of course and my ownership experience will be a good one. But even as this is going on, I am somewhat skeptical and when I look at this deal I kind of shake my head. I still can't believe this is happened! I should know later today, maybe tomorrow. I know right? They have me in a 2011 Durango now. I've had it now 2 1/2 weeks. ( 800 miles on it so far! ) While it's much better than any Durango before it, and funny, it's really nothing like the Durango before it, so after it being gone from the line up for 2 years, I would have thought that would have been a good time to just rename it. I don't know. That's just an observation point. While living with this I've discovered: 1) I really don't like the retaining hinge points of the doors. The first point is about a quarter of the way open which isn't really enough room to move in and out of. the second hinge point doesn't really hold the door at all and the third point is all the way open, which in car lot parking stalls easily reaches other cars and trucks. So I find myself having to hold the door alot and being more careful. 2) The steering wheel and dash alignment. I actually have this same problem with alot of other cars also, including my Lexus IS 350, although not as much or as bad as the Durango's. My issue is that when you put the steering wheel where you like it, you can't see the gauges at all. And if you put it where you can see the gauges, it feels like your reaching up to the steering wheel. 3) When I select the USB port for my ipod and set it up to play my music lists, any time I turn the vehicle off and get back in, it defaults back to FM radio. I have to reselect the USB and then reselect the playlist to play again. Stupid. 4) The driver seat has developed a tick in it when I lean back. I think it just has a loose bolt somewhere. 5) They decided to put these really dumb red LED rings around both gauges! I just figured out how to turn them off though, so I'm liking the gauges much more now. 6) No hatch glass opener. Only the whole liftgate opens. 7) The standard cloth seats really suck. 8) The side pocket storage in the doors shape makes it really hard to get things back out. 9) The center armrest compartment is pretty cheesy still and doesn't feel as solid as I think it should. On the other hand: 1) I really like the new suspension and steering. It stays on point much better, and the center weighting much more precise. Just the steering alone is 1000% better than any other Chrysler I've driven before. 2) The brakes are much improved as well. They have a good sense of feel to them. 3) The 3.6 liter V6 makes 290 hp and 260 feet pounds of torque. For this being a 5000 lb. truck, it move it around just fine in my opinion, and I'm currently averaging 19 mpg. A good surprise for a change. 4) Uses alot of Mercedes parts inside. The switch plates, the center digital info center, the air vents, and more all come directly from the ML. So of course they work nice, and look great. 5) The cabin is pretty quiet for a base model SUV. 6) I like the front end design. I also like the profile, but I hate the rearend view.

video camera. That's all you can do. And get a good higher resolution camera too. I have a 16 foot box truck that we have to bring inside the building every night because even a locking gas cap won't stop someone from cutting the rubber hose line from the inlet port to the tank that you can plainly see! I need to have a body guy make a metal guard that goes around that hole area.

So, I go to the dealer yesterday to drop off the things that weren't in my ML as I wasn't expecting to sell it or trade it in when all this happened. So I didn't have the cargo cover thing, and the spare key etc. etc. I go down there today and drop them off and the salesperson I was originally dealing with was there and we had a few moments to chat more. During this conversation, he reveals that I was in fact the second accident to occur in the last 60 days! Apparently one of the service people hit a Dodge Grand Caravan coming into the dealership and they are currently in a heated lawsuit over this already. So, when Chuck, (the salesperson I'm talking to) said they called him back there, he said he never heard so many cuss words in a row before. they keep talking about how lucky they are that you were willing to just keep this in house.

Ok, I'll start from the beginning, and try to keep this brief. I like to test drive alot of cars and trucks. Pretty regularly. Recently there's been some threads here regarding the new Jeep, and how Chrysler/Dodge is changing their line up for the better. GM and Ford are rolling out new models and better quality, blah blah blah. I like to be able to speak from first hand knowledge and expereience, so I like to keep up with them and drive them when ever I get a chance. I decided to test drive the Dodge Durango and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. I get to the dealership and find a sales person. I spent about a half an hour looking them over in the show room, climbing in and out of them, sitting in the back and moving things around. One of the things I kept asking myself is if I would like the extra room the Durango offers? Will it fit in my garage? Even if I don't get a Durango, would I want a larger SUV? Hmmm. So I go over to the Jeep Grand Cherokee and give it the go through as well. I have to say, both are very nice. Dodge is definately going in a new, and much better direction. The toy package the Jeep offers easily rivals that of the Mercedes. So afterwards, the sales person asks if I would bring my ML up to the front so the buyer can take a look at it so we can get some numbers. Knowing how the game is played, I said "sure." and went to the parking lot and brought the MB up to where he was standing, he pointed to a parking stall and I parked it there, got out and handed him the key. He had brought he Grand Cherokee around and we simply hopped in and went for the test drive. I test drove a Dodge Durango Citadel with the 5.7 liter Hemi V8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with a 5.7 liter Hemi, and a Limited V6. When we got back from the test drive, I noticed that my ML wasn't in front where I left it and assumed the buyer test drove it and parked it somewhere else. We were discussing the Grand Cherokee when the sales person I was talking to disappeared for 10 or 15 minutes, then came back and asked if I would follow him. He guided me down a hall to the service dept. and as I turned the corner there were 4 or 5 people who looked to be management, another salesperson who was sitting on a bench, a huge sparkly blue Dodge Ram 1500 and my Mercedes Benz. They were all standing at the rear of the vehicles, so as I approach one of the managers starts to apologize, and then of course I see it. The liftgate hatch has a huge dent in it next to the license plate. The rear window is cracked, the taillight is smashed, the rear view camera lense thing is hanging by the wire, and there is sparkly blue paint all over the place! Yeah, I'm curling my toes in my shoes to keep from blowing my lid at this point. They explain that their staff member over there backed the truck into my ML when their buyer was test driving my car. ( This is where I kept asking myself how are the insurance companies going to handle this?) So, upset, in some shock at the realization that my SUV isn't even driveable now, what are we going to do? The GM offers we go to his office. Once we get there, we start talking. His first real question was, so is there a way we can settle this or do you want t file insurance claims? That's when I said, yeah, I guess I don't have a choice, I'll call the police and file an accident report for them. Then he asked again, if there was something we could do that would avoid all that embarrasment and maybe help save his job also. So, now understanding where he was going with this, I asked him "well, what did you have in mind?" so he asked if I would be open to the deal of the century on anything he had on the lot. ( I'm no fool. "Deal of the Century" and lots of leverage.......let's see where this goes. The police can always be called afterwards.) So he brings the salesperson I was working with in and he starts sending him on info errands and files. I said we might be able to do something with a Jeep Grand Cherokee, but I want what want, and it has to be everything, or forget it. So, to make a long story short, and to save you the in office battle I went though, they are ordering for me, a new Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 290 hp V6 4x4 fromm the mfgr because they didn't have, nor is there one anywhere in the US (LOL!) that has everything I wanted in the color package I wanted, (Dark Charcoal with black leather interior), I'm unfortunately not allowed to discuss the financial terms of our arrangement as part of the deal. But I can tell you that my payment went down, and the loan is for 3 months longer than what I had remaining on my existing loan when I drove in,, and comes up to $450.00 less than the amount I owed the bank when I drove in. And they are "buying" the ML from me. They also threw in 5 years of "Dodge Total Care", so the next 5 years is all free oil changes, belts, brakes, tires, anything that is maintenance, and extended the warrentee 5/50 as well. How do you say no to that? It was either take this deal, or file the insurance claim, get it repaired, maybe su the dealership or not, and then have an SUV that now has an accident in it's history report, not to mention all the hassles I see in the future with this path. So I agreed, and took the deal. The next funny thing that happened was we walked out of the office shook hands and everyone took a deep breath that I was going to work with them and no insurance companies and police reports along with bad media, and possible dealer ranking consequences, when I asked, ok, so what am I going to drive until my new Jeep gets here? They all froze. LOL!! Right! so he tells the slaesperson to pull a Jeep Patriot or Liberty up so he can sign it out for me to drive until my new one comes in. And of course I had a problem with that. I explained that I use my vehicle for my job as well for clients and residential and dinner meetings, etc. etc. So I asked for and recieved a new Dodge Durango to drive until my Jeep comes in. So I get to live with a Durango for 2 to 3 weeks until the Grand Cherokee comes in. How the @#$%!!! did this happen???? (Shaking my head) Stuff like this only happens to me.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but maybe that can be popped out from the other side if you took the bumper off. The chrome might crack, might not. You could also just cover it with bumper protectors on each side. And as I'm thinking about it, 350 for a new bumper isn't bad. Just think what that would look like if it were a plastic bumper cover like 99% of the vehicles on the road today! They moved your truck a foot and only left that behind?? Good bumpers. Sucks that it happened though. That's people for ya. They are probably just *BLEEP*ed that their car is dented!

You only need to post your topic once please.

Yeah, I don't see how any of that solves any of your issues. I'm just one of those that likes to sleep at night and not have to stress over bills and mounting debt. Have your thought about doing a double dinger? Like taking the Ram in to the Dodge dealership and trading for her a Dodge AWD Journey, and you another truck or SUV? MAybe get them both 1 or 2 years CPO ?

So you think the government mandates they established so far have helped anything?

I merged these 2 topics to keep this together better.

I would still stay away from KIA. Their cars and trucks still can lose up to 65% of their value in just 5 years. That's way above the segment average. As for the Dodge Durango, my advise is to wait atleast another year, maybe two. I know someone who bought one and they are having some of the strangest problems I've ever seen. For example, the entire nav/radio/ac/ central command center shuts off when ever he makes a left turn. It took them 5 visits and weeks of having it to finally fix it. (We think it's fixed at this point.) The driver seat developed a bad creak when you first sit in it, and then the power adjustment motor stopped working. He has an appointment to get that fixed, but in the mean time the driver seat won't move and it's almost all the way back because it stopped working when he was trying to find the cause for the creak. LOL!! I really think Dodge just needs more time to get the "new" Dodge going first. I feel the same way about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Let's see what the maintenance and problematic issues are first. Besides, I live by the rule, never, never, never, never, ever buy a first year model. Especially from a car mfgr. that has gone thru as many changes in such a short time as Dodge/Jeep . One of the biggest factors I looked at when buying new cars and trucks is the total cost of ownership over the 5 year period. You will be amazed what you think is a good price on a vehicle is actually not. Let's take the Kia Sportage. The Kia will cost around $17K-$24K on the invoice, but the total cost of ownership, ( insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. etc.) is an average $38K ! over the 5 year ownership. By contrast, last year's Motor Trend "Sport Utility of the Year," the Subaru Forester is more expensive than the Sportage, but in the long run, will cost less. Its TCO starts at just $30K and earns the Subaru an "Above Average" rating from IntelliChoice. Yet the Forester offers more cargo space, sportier handling, and when it comes time to replace it, much higher resale value than the Sportage. MSRP from $20,295 I know you said no Subaru's, but I'm just making a point here. High insurance costs and heavy depreciation are things you can't do anything about. The Honda CRV is one of the lowest TCO's, but I see Volkswagen, Toyota, and Subaru are the kings in this size SUV market. After that it's not even close. I see almost $8-$10K difference to the next levels. Honestly, the list of your needs and lifestyle scream Subaru, but the Honda/Toyota/VW would work well also.

See, I have a problem with government mandating. It's actually part of the problem. If people stop buying Escalades and start buying Versa's then the Escalades go away on thier own. We don't need the government regulating this. Don't they have real problems to focus on? This is stupid.

the LS hands down.

This is an open and free forum to share experiences, knowledge, and our passion for cars while making friends and meeting new people from all over the world. Unfortunately there are those out there that have other intentions. Identifying and removing those are the job of the moderators. How each site manages their moderators can vary greatly, but here, we all work together and act together. Although it may be one moderator or another actually handling the communications, most times it's done after we have consulted with each other and have agreed on a course of action. I was a member here for a few years before I became a moderator.

Well, I'm sure the Diablo chip has something to do with that also.......LOL!!

Welcome to the LOC.

Yeah, that's not bad at all! I'm actually hopeful for Dodge. I would love the idea of Dodge emerging from the ashes of Detroit as the new leader in american made autos. I like what they have done with the new Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and although I haven't been up close on the 300 yet, it looks like it's going that way also. Even though these are still ancient chassis now and I would still give them a few more years to develop all new models under Fiat and see how the quality holds up, I have to say that for the first time since the introduction of the new Ram, I like the new look, but even more importantly, the interior is starting to come together as well, the suspension upgrades are well past due, but atleast it's there now. I would bet in the next couple years Fiat will introduce all new engine platforms too. FINALLY!!! HOPE!!!!! LOL!!!!! Good choice on the 4.7 liter btw.