Class Action Lawsuit - Rx 450h

[TheBjamin]

I own a 2013 RX 450h and from the day I purchased it I have averaged 24mpg, bouncing from 23-25mpg highway mileage, with anywhere from 22-26mpg city... a far cry from the 28/32mpg advertised. The dealership has reset my ECM three times, changed the inflation on the tires four times, and added a special spoiler and "areo fins", all with 0 effect. After pestering Lexus for over a year, I was told that 24mpg is NORMAL for this car, and there is nothing wrong with it. I have polled other 450h drivers and the vast majority state their mileage is the same, around 24-25mpg. Only 3 have said they get the promised 28/32mpg.

I intend to file a class action lawsuit against Lexus for artificially inflating their MPG rating on their hybrid vehicles in order to increase sales and justify the massive price difference between the hybrid and regular models.

I am polling all 450h owners, 2010-2015, to find out what their average mileage is. If a significant number are having the same issue, I will begin the process of filing on behalf of all 450h owners.

Again, this is only for 2010-2015 models. Thank you in advance for posting your MPG experiences.

Ben

[pj8708]

Hi Bjamin and welcome.

The issue of MPG is a constant ping pong game. As you said, bouncing results back and forth gives the driver a poor estimate of how much fuel they would need for a trip. Additionally, allocation for a cost per gallon makes it difficult to calculate your fuel budget for say a month to plan your cost for monthly needs.

Having said that, the responsibility for estimated MPG is not up to the manufacturer but the EPA. Specif MPG are set by the EPA and are required that all autos meet those standards. If the consumer does not get the estimated figure I'm not sure how a Class Action Suit could provide any remedy. If the manufacturer meets the required, current standards, and those standards are estimates, it would seem that finding a remedy would be like nailing Jello to a wall.

Paul

[TheBjamin]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your input. However, I am not asking for opinions as to the validity of the lawsuit. Several have already been filed, and won, by litigants against Ford, Kia, Honda, and Hyundai. It's time to take a look at Lexus and see if they should join the ranks.

I am asking 450h owners to share their MPG experience for 2010-2015 models. That's all.

Thanks,

Ben

[pj8708]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your input. However, I am not asking for opinions as to the validity of the lawsuit. Several have already been filed, and won, by litigants against Ford, Kia, Honda, and Hyundai. It's time to take a look at Lexus and see if they should join the ranks.

I am asking 450h owners to share their MPG experience for 2010-2015 models. That's all.

Thanks,

Ben

Good luck.

[engnrng79]

2010 450h, in 2013 mileage averaged 29/30 mpg combined city/highway (mostly highway at 65 to 70 mph). Put on new tires last year, then mileage dropped to 27 mpg (factory air pressure settings). I increased air pressure to just under sidewall maximum and mileage improved about 0.5 mpg. During summer, mileage is as much as 2 mpg higher than during winter. 75 to 80 mph on highway drops mileage 2 mpg. I leave the car in ECO mode setting which reduces gas wasted during hard acceleration. Lots of factors involved. On my best tank, I have not seen an average over 30 mpg, on my worst tank I have not seen below 26. In my opinion, 24 mpg sounds low, even if it were the result of high speed/high acceleration driving. Ever had any error codes?

EPA test ratings of hybrids always yield high mpg numbers and manufacturers are required to put those numbers out to the public, even if the engineers recommend otherwise. Later, EPA denies all responsibility and manufacturer ends up eating $millions, so there is precedent for your suit (Ford CMax and Fusion) .

Typical results are that a hybrid version gets 25% better mileage than the non-hybrid version of the same car. What does the RX350 typically get?

[ukrkoz]

My HiHy is 500 lbs heavier and has technically same power train, right?

[PARISJET]

Ben,

Please file the Class action suit and I will sign up to help.

This Car has been one of the biggest disappointments of all I have owned. We have tried everything to get better gas mileage from turtle like starts at stop lights to coasting down hills both in gear and in neutral. the best we see is 24 to 25. I have rented new Chevys and Fords that consistently get over 30 in a non Hybrid.

What do the new RX450H Hybrid cars get, would be interested if Lexus has improved them and if so how about a replacement for a nominal fee (based on mileage)

[pj8708]

I was surprised when I saw that this topic had risen from the dead. Given the amount of time since the first posting I thought that all of you had won buckets full of cash to assuage your egos.

Most people who purchase hybrids do so after much research. If that is true here, all of you found the oxymoron of hybrids which is, they get worse gas mileage at highway travel and Interstate speeds. I've never heard a good explanation as to why this is, but it makes no sense. I have read in several sources that this is a common problem, including hybrids by other manufacturers. This combination of reverse mpg has frustrated many owners.

I do not see the prior intent to defraud the Lexus customer. This is not another Volkswagen industrial bait & switch. In reading the results of other class action suits, the customer gets around .25 cents on the dollar while the Lawyers take the rest. What would you sue for? How damaged have you been? Why not sell the thing and get a lot more money out of the situation.

Good luck

Paul

[VBdenny]

I'm kind of of the opinion that if you have such concerns about fuel economy, then the resolution begins with the vehicle. I'd rather see someone driving a tiny smart car that accelerates off a traffic light than someone who drives for super economy (such a snail starts) any day. If someone does a snail start, then everybody behind them also must snail start which cause about 1/2 the people behind to miss the light cycle which wastes more fuel. I do not like being held up by someone driving a large vehicle trying to save fuel as it causes accidents and traffic jams.

I say accelerate hard off the light and not worry about fuel economy. More fun and hardly uses any more gasoline.

[J.J]

I agree with Ben.

The deciding factor in purchasing the 450h was the excellent mpg rating!!! I would never think that a person would have to search all over the internet to find out that the vehicle they want to purchase does NOT EVEN GET CLOSE to the estimated mpg it has advertised. Especially a brand that is not 'cheap' by any stretch of the imagination. I purchased a Lexus because I wanted a luxury high quality vehicle WITH good fuel economy. Buying the more expensive brand was weighted specifically by the savings granted with the fuel economy. 

Furthermore, I am appalled by the responses given by Paul. I have never had problems getting [very close] to the estimated mpg with every car I have owned. This car is pathetic. I have never gotten [even once] the estimated mpg on my 2010 RX 450h. 

 

If Lexus is aware that this car does not get that type of gas mileage, as it appears they are, then they should never ever put it on the stickers for the vehicles and in the specifications!!! 

[ukrkoz]

Been a while since I visited this topic.

I own 2012 Highlander Hybrid which, technically, is same vehicle as RX400 or RX450 hybrid.

That power train performs excellent in mpg respect. Even now, winter time and after I used my HIHY as truck, towing and doing tons of short trips, mid winter, I am sitting at 30.1 mpg. Summer time no traffic I had her at solid 32 plus.

Please, do not blame excellent cars and design in something that has many many variables that may cause sub advertised mpg. Starting with very poor driver habits, through mostly short trips in rural areas and all the way into possibly a mechanical issue with a particular vehicle. Before blaiming, one has to clearly describe terrain, daily trips, traffic, petrol quality  AND DRIVING STYLE as those are the three great whales mpg is based on. Just like when I bought my 07 TCH, owner had her at 32 mpg and in 6 months down the road I had her at 39.6 Or, when I bought my HiHy, previous owner sold it with 26 mpg and I brought it up to documented 37 same year, late July.

I said it and will keep saying - it's not what you drive, it's how you drive and where you drive.

 

Best

 

[J.J]

Paul,

A small percentage of vehicles are actually tested by the EPA. The vehicle manufacturer actually supplies the EPA with the estimated mpg numbers! I strongly suspect this is the case with the 450h due to the huge variance in the estimated mpg's versus the customers actual experience. 

[J.J]

Interesting that you would just "happen" to show up now to make a totally uneducated, not to mention rude, comment. You don't know me or my driving habits.

I am well aware of all the variables that effect gas mileage and have tested this vehicle from one range to the other extreme. It has underperformed in ALL cases. I bought this car because I had a very high opinion and experienced history with Lexus. I have rented the Highlander on multiple trips - IT outperforms the 450h hands down.
Hopefully you will try to refrain from making assertions you know nothing about.

Best

[pj8708]

18 hours ago, J.J said:

I agree with Ben.

The deciding factor in purchasing the 450h was the excellent mpg rating!!! I would never think that a person would have to search all over the internet to find out that the vehicle they want to purchase does NOT EVEN GET CLOSE to the estimated mpg it has advertised. Especially a brand that is not 'cheap' by any stretch of the imagination. I purchased a Lexus because I wanted a luxury high quality vehicle WITH good fuel economy. Buying the more expensive brand was weighted specifically by the savings granted with the fuel economy. 

Furthermore, I am appalled by the responses given by Paul. I have never had problems getting [very close] to the estimated mpg with every car I have owned. This car is pathetic. I have never gotten [even once] the estimated mpg on my 2010 RX 450h. 

 

If Lexus is aware that this car does not get that type of gas mileage, as it appears they are, then they should never ever put it on the stickers for the vehicles and in the specifications!!! 

I apologize if you felt I was being rude or disespectful. That was and is not my intent.

As I mentioned in my earliest thread, this subject comes up every now and then. It has been my experience that the owner feels as though this is a personal slight and Lexus continues to openly ignore the customers demands and the only way to resolve the gas mileage issue is to sue Lexus on the belief that by doing so the customer can get their attention.

I say this based on Long trips and around town driving. In any of those drives, I have never gotten the exact same MPG on any trip. For some reason, some of you expect the the laws of physic should be suspended for you. For example during the course of any month, how many times do you drive up.hills? How many times do you go down hill?  Everyday when your driving around, is the humidity and ambient air temp the same all day long.? What is the tire temperature variant during driving? You get the idea.

Here is my big mouth again, but folks, when you invest in a $50-55,000 car, do you expect it to be maintained for the same price as a "Kia"? You could say YES to that. The position would be , the more expensive the car, the more perfect it should be. This is the place where finding the true villain will be hard Is Toyota trying to cheat us? would be the benefit to Lexus to consistently put out a product that intentionally gets lower results than advertised? 

If your intent is still to sue, I would recommend contacting your states attorney generals office for information on filing such action and does your state use the Federal "Lemon Law.

Good luck with your efforts.

 

Have a good week everyone.

Paul

[engnrng79]

So, the difference in gasoline cost from 30 mpg to 24 mpg is about $2500 over 100,000 miles.  Difficult to justify purchase of the hybrid vs 350 based on gas pricing alone.  My personal motivation was based more on reduced emissions, longer life engine and brakes (neither has to work as hard), since we plan to own the vehicle a very long time, and I am an engineer and have had hybrids in our family for a dozen years.  Yes, my mileage went down about 10% after putting new tires on, but next time I need new tires (later this year), I will get the current hi-tech low rolling resistance tires and expect the mileage to go back up.  My biggest disappointment was the fuel gauge.  I bought a 17 gal tank that shows empty with zero range at 14 gal used.  I often go 50+ miles beyond empty and have never run out of gas. 

So, what are you going to sue for?  $2500 "damages" + $250,000 legal fees?

 

[pj8708]

23 hours ago, J.J said:

Paul,

A small percentage of vehicles are actually tested by the EPA. The vehicle manufacturer actually supplies the EPA with the estimated mpg numbers! I strongly suspect this is the case with the 450h due to the huge variance in the estimated mpg's versus the customers actual experience. 

Thanks J for the reminder of this "know you see it, know you don't. It is my understanding that yet another revue of the program is coming.

[TheBjamin]

Can everyone please stay on topic?   I was asking for names of those who wish to join the list in a class-action lawsuit against Lexus for falsifying EPA estimated MPG in order to artificially inflate the sales value of their RX 450h.   Whether you get good mileage in your Toyota Highlander, or whether you feel the lawsuit is valid is a complete non-sequitur and of no value to this discussion.

Regarding Bruce's comment, the amount claimed in the lawsuit is not the lost monies from gasoline costs.  It is the difference in cost between the RX 350 and the RX 450h that Lexus charges for supposedly increasing the MPG through a hybrid engine which is roughly $6,000 for base model pricing.

Paul, out of everyone in this thread, you have been the least helpful regarding the topic for this post.  Please stop.

David, I've added your name to the list.  If anyone else wishes to be added, please let me know.

Thanks

[pj8708]

Lighten up BJamin!! This is not your personal forum, nor are you required to participate in the conversation. Posting your topic in the proper forum might help asuage you tension. For example the RX forum.

For the future, I'm not going to stop.

Paul

[TheBjamin]

Once again Paul, a completely useless contribution.  A class-action lawsuit would encompass ALL hybrid vehicles made by Lexus that do not perform to their EPA estimates, not just the RX (unless of course that model is the only one that proves to qualify).  This is why this conversation is not posted only in the RX forum.  Once you have been involved in a class-action suit or have any legal background regarding such suits, I more than welcome you to join in the conversation.

B

[pj8708]

Gee, some where we got off track regarding your class action intent. Some where you got the impression that I care about your happiness..

 Several threads have supported your position and others have tried to reason with you on the subject.  But you and JJ have not welcomed their attempt. Now, after a year from your first posting on the topic you are expecting everyone to recognize  you as the messiah of all things expert on the RX family.

I and the moderators serve the needs of all 146,000 members of the club. You posted your topic and over the course of a year you have received support for those who agree. Other members have not felt the same way Since June of 2015, One would think you have run your course.

Your insulting approach to some of the members and me  create a hostile environment that goes against the "Forum Guidelines". This will not be tolerated. I still wish you good luck.

Paul

[TheBjamin]

Paul.. you are a petty man.  Your threat means absolutely nothing because you have absolutely no power.  Feel free to delete the post, ban me, whatever; I honestly don't care one whit what you do.  You show why sites have gotten rid of forum moderators, but it seems LOC hasn't learned the lesson of the 2000's.  That's too bad.  I'll let you get back to feeling like you're important.

Adios.

[pj8708]

Hi BJamin. I hope your having great sunny California day.W e still have snow.

If you will, lets take another attempt to make your original posting and the support you were looking for come true. .I've gone back to your original posting last year,when you explained your problem and the action you wished to take. Your introduction was clear and precise. And your correct in reminding us that the law suit was all the information you wanted. So far so good.

Many customers say they are unhappy about their mpg as well regardless of model,. Lexus mpg. ( our 2013 RX 350 gets 24 mpg.).

I am not going to apologize for my initial thread. As I was reading your post, I was way ahead with my thread that has been  helpful in these "false" mpg situations. Knowing some of the other folks that put up threads felt that by calling on their personnel  experience which they felt would help you. Combing back to you topic in under a years time might have kept the topic closer to the top of mind awareness.

In terms of my power, I have banned one member in 8 years. The only other posters who get flaged for future use are "Spammers".

The intent of the moderators is one thing. Welcome and help all members with any reasonable need. If you fell the need to email the owner, I can send you his address in the UK.

Paul

[browercreed]

I have an '08 RX 350 with 137,000 miles on it, and was thinking of trading for a 450H.  I'm so glad I found this topic because the increased mpg was my only incentive to trade! My Brandywine baby is performing perfectly, so I'll forget this trade idea and get over the new car fever!

[lenore]

Fuel economy is and always will be an issue.  THe EPA has recalculated their numbers a couple of times because of poor testing.  My RX400h gets 24 to 25 consistently, however my old RX300 got 16 to 21.  So the improvement to me far exceeded the advertised mileage.  The pure power difference and smoothness of the CVT transmission makes the RX400h an incredible vehicle.  I also am on Toyota forums and the Highlander (hybrid) appears to get a little bit better mileage on the same drive train.  However the plus is the Highlander requires only regular fuel.  (Hmmm maybe a Highlander Limited in the future).  I believe very few automobiles get what the EPA claims.  Mileage can vary do to location (California gas sucks) to climate, tires, driving habits (Hot rod foot).  Some people are just following the numbers too closely.  Build a bridge and get over it.

[MellonC]

Did Benjamin move forward with this?  What is the status now?