Premium Gas?

[MendoPaul]

We're on the verge of buying an '04 LS430.

The gas prices have us reeling! We know that the specs say premium gas is necessary just like they did on our Lincoln Navigator. But people at the Lincoln dealer told us to use regular gas and we have for 3 years without problems.

Does anyone operate the LS430 with lowest grade fuel?

[rvnlt]

You have the money for an '04 LS430 and your complaining about Premium Gas Prices. Gimme a Break!!!

[VGR]

I agree rvnlt. These folks should be driving Corolla if the 12% extra cost of Premium is going to strain their budget.

[vevro]

MendoPaul,

I completely understand your pain, gas prices in Cali are the highest in the nation. The manual says that temporary use of lower octane shouldn't have major consequences on the engine. I used to mix it up between 89 and 93 octane for a while and I haven't noticed any problems in my 99 LS. Give it a shot, the car is covered by warranty, in case something horrific happens, dealers will take care of it.

By the way, congratulations on the purchase, do you mind posting some pictures?

[HRP]

We're on the verge of buying an '04 LS430.

The gas prices have us reeling! We know that the specs say premium gas is necessary just like they did on our Lincoln Navigator. But people at the Lincoln dealer told us to use regular gas and we have for 3 years without problems.

Does anyone operate the LS430 with lowest grade fuel?

If you are going to sweat gas prices, either wait for the Lexus hybrid or get a Prius. Worrying about gas prices could ruin your Lexus LS430 experience. If you are going to drive a luxury car like the LS430, treat it right. In the long run, it will be worth it. Right now you do have a choice since you haven't bought it. Alternatively, you could get a 1 or 2 year old LS430 and use the savings to pay the extra cost of gas. And you'd find out if you really want to drive a Lexus LS430.

Buying premium gas is part of the price of Lexus luxury.

[luvmy98LS400]

Congratulations on your new, wonderful car! :D

I have done a little research on this myself as I just bought my first car that requires premium fuel.

Here's what I've concluded. In the short run, you're OK. In the long run, it probably doesn't pay as your engine will build up carbon deposits faster, run hotter, thus reducing engine life. You will also have less power on regular, and slightly reduced gas mileage. After a while, your car will hesitate and run rough. So you'll need a carbon cleaning every so often, and my local Lexus dealer does not even have a carbon cleaning machine. You will also probably pollute more.

Here's a link to an article from AAA on the subject.

http://www.aaa-calif.com/WESTWAYS/0302/OVERDRIVE_1.ASP

I'm biting the bullet, and paying for premium. If you plan to keep your car a while, I would do the same.

Enjoy your new ride! :D

[99lsguy]

Let say:

You drive a lot....20K a year

And you get 20 mpg average....

That's 1000 gallons of gas a year........

Premium is what....20 cents, 25 cents more a gallon.....

That's $250 maximum a year extra in premium gasoline. Not much - because you still have to buy some sort of gasoline.

Yes - Gas is too high, but we still have to buy it Enjoy the LS!

99

[VMF]

car has been designed to use premium fuel, it means that ECM logic for engine and tranny are based on the qualities of the 93-95 octane and using any other octane fuel will lead to the shortened parts life, perfomance decrease and non economic fuel consumption

[SW03ES]

Just because the guy can afford to pay $65,000 for a car doesn't mean he's not interested in saving money on gas. Just because you have money doesn't mean you just buy things without seeing what they cost or if you're getting the best deal. Did you all just walk in and pay sticker or whatever they were asking for your cars? I didn't, I negotiated hard for $4000 off, does that mean I should be driving a cheaper car? Come on.

A common misconception from people who don't have money, people with money just should/do throw it around on anything regardless of the price. People who really have money don't waste it. If you waste money needlessly then eventually it will catch up to you and you wont have any money anymore. People who waste money don't really have any money in the first place, they just want to look/feel like they do. Whats parked outside all the really expensive houses in your area, the latest most expensive car? Not here, you see many more 4-10 year old Lexuses, BMWs, and Mercedes, old Land Cruisers. These people have more money than you could even believe.

I think his question was is this a neccisary expense, he didn't say if it was he wouldn't do it. The dealership requires insane service intervals and charges $120 an hour, are you cheap for not having this service you don't need done?

Anyways I digress, it just irritates me that people automatically assume when people don't just fork over the money for the highest level of something without asking what they're getting first that they:

A: Can't really afford it

B: Are cheap

You MAY need to run premium fuel. Its not going to hurt the car if you try running it on a tank of regular and see what happens. Lexus' ECU is dynamic so it should adapt to whatever octane fuel that you put in. I know people that have LS and run regular gas. *I* run premium simply because it is an expensive car, and I do plan on driving it for a long time and it gives me better peace of mind. The same reason I use synthetic oil.

[Birger]

Hi

As for the idea about the Regular and the Premium gas there are no difference I have a 1996 LS400 with 111.590 miles and have only used Regular gas in that car I really don't see any difference with 5 octane I don't hear any ping plus the miles I get are in the City 18.6 and on the highway is 25.8 miles per gallon on the highway I use the cruise control all the time, as for repairs I have never had any thing done with the motor.

Birger :chairshot:

[SW03ES]

The world didn't end huh?

[lxs300]

A common misconception from people who don't have money, people with money just should/do throw it around on anything regardless of the price. People who really have money don't waste it. If you waste money needlessly then eventually it will catch up to you and you wont have any money anymore. People who waste money don't really have any money in the first place, they just want to look/feel like they do.

Well said. Save little where there is a possibility for saving, spend where you can't save but have to spend., that little you saved earlier makes difference.

[blake918]

Very, very well put Steve! :D I just went through this same senario when some people had a sh_t fit about how I was trying to and did better the fuel economy of my car-95 LS. The sticker on my car shows $57k, so what should gas be to me? Right. Wrong!!! I paid nowhere near $57k for the car, and even if I could, I'd still care about the fuel economy.

Back to the origional question, Paul, I only run Premium. Is it a waste? Possibly!, but there must be a good reason why Lexus stamped it on the gauges. But, most importantly, like a few others,it gives me piece of mind. :D Good luck with the puchase and take some pics for us. ;)

[Wilson1911]

I'm putting only 87gas in my LS right now and I'm never gonna put anything higher. I personally firmly believe that higher octane doesn't affect anything, and if it does, it's too little for me to notice. I run 87 only on my fuel injected Suzuki GSXR sportbike, this engine is definitely more finicky and tells you if your oil sucks/filters are bad/(cant think of any more little parts off the top of my head right now) and it doesn't make a single hiccup or ping (I HAVE had pings before, when the bike was brand new, I actually could feel it with the engine under me) as i string it out at 10-14,000 rpm on the freeway and empty straightaways. My bike eats it up just fine, my lower-tech (yes yes, it IS an advanced engine compared to most other cars, but it's not as high-tolerance and super-fine tuned like a race engine) Lexus will do just as well. Just my 2 cents.

[monarch]

The 2004 LS430 owners manual says "Select premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 or higher for optimum engine performance. However, if such

premium type cannot be obtained, you may temporarily use unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating as low as 87."

So 87 octane is approved only for temporary use. Using 87 full time is therefore risky - increases the risk of premature costly future mechancal problems and repairs.

[93LSOwner]

Lexus engineers & designers are this intelligent to put together a car like “Lexus.” Then don’t you think they will know a thing or two about, what is good and wrong for what they have built.

I put the kind of gas it says to put in all of my family's cars.

Besides the gas issue: I only serve my car with the best, because I Love cars.

I just went and bought a pack of paper for my printer, there were 500 sheets for $3.99 and there was 500 sheets pack for $9.99. I bought the $9.99 one, because the cover said it is whiter and thicker, if it wasn’t won’t the price would have been lower. If everyone was a cheater in this world, do you think we would have made it to 2004?

The brand name of the paper was “HP”, also the name of my computer, printer, and scanner. So, I trust them.

My point, trust the tag as well as the price tags, its there was a reason.

[SW03ES]

No offense, but you're a sucker. Just because something says its better doesn't mean its actually better or that its going to make what you're doing with it any better. If you were printing up official documents or something than the heavier stock would be neccisary, but for home use? Why buy anything but the cheapest copy paper? Who'se ever going to see it, you? And if you say it makes you feel better, you need the thickest paper to feel good about yourself?

My dad sells commercial printing paper, he probably sold HP the paper to make that printer paper. All paper comes from a couple manufacturers, and then it is resold under specific brand names. My dad sells the paper to the end user from the manufacturer. Odds are both those papers came from the same mill. One might be a little heavier than the other, but not enough to increase the cost of production by 110%. So you bought almost the same paper and paid over twice as much for it. You got taken man LOL. I'm sure my dad will thank you for making his LS430 payment this month.

Thats just what companies and advertisers have programmed you to think you're entire life, that something is better just because it costs more. Look at a Mercedes, is it better because it costs more? People who drive Mercedes think so. Advertisers have been doing this to you your entire life, if you don't learn to think for yourself then you're going to remain a drone.

I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you. Its expensive!

You say "trust the tag as well as the price tag, they have a reason", the only reason is they want to make as much money as possible. They love the hell out of consumers like you. They have to actually give me reasons their product is good to make me buy it, they don't like me as much. All they have to do to sell you on a product is make it cost more and tell you ambiguously its better. Why is it better? What will it do for me? Why should I spend my hard earned money on this product over the cheaper one? The answers to these questions are of no importance? I work too hard for my money to just squander it.

Thats why advertisers spend over $850 a year on every person in the US, because there's a sucker born every minute. If they keep everyone feeling that having THINGS is going to make them happy, then they'll make 20 times on their investment like they do every year. And you buy into and trust these crooks?

Anyways just because the Lexus manual says 87 may be used only in a pinch doesn't mean thats neccisarily the case. Keep in mind what I said, its all about image. If they admitted the car would run on 87 for some owners it would lower their feelings as to its "expensiveness" and "eliteness". People like that their big luxury cars guzzle premium fuel because it gives them another opportunity to show off and feel better about themselves.

I think the members here that have older LS that run on regular fuel have shown that there's no harm. Maybe at 400,000 miles a ring might go bad a little early, but who cares at that point? In the life the car is going to have with you its not going to cause any harm.

[Wilson1911]

SW03ES, I couldn't agree with you more. :)

[blake918]

I know I am! :D I spend the extra $5 for brighter and thicker laser printer paper just because I like the look and feel of it even if they do come from the same mill. I can't think of very many things where you don't get what you pay for. Your ES will gladly run on 87; Alan has done this since '94 on his first ES and on his 03-like your car, and he's never had a problem. I know my LS would probably run fine on 87, but I pay the extra $.20 at the pump for my own comfort. After reading your post above about marketing, I can't help but wonder are you a "sucker" too?.......

*I* run premium simply because it is an expensive car, and I do plan on driving it for a long time and it gives me better peace of mind. The same reason I use synthetic oil.

From the quote above, it sounds like you are one of those...

People like that their big luxury cars guzzle premium fuel because it gives them another opportunity to show off and feel better about themselves

So...you run Premium just because your car is expensive? Hmmmm <_<

[prix]

Agree with many others here, which is that if you can buy that car, treat it right and don't penny pinch on the fuel. Question: I see a lot of posts about using 93 rated octane (as opposed to 89), and I've been filling up at Mobil forever, always using super unleaded. The rating I see at the pump is 91 though. Does this mean I'm not getting the best grade fuel? If so, no wonder the prices at this station are always a few cents lower than others in the Los Angeles area. Thanks for your comments in advance. ( drive a 94 LS 400, btw).

[SW03ES]

Blake, oh yes, we're all suckers to one degree or another. We've been programmed since birth to think that only whats more expensive or a name brand is worthwhile.

To continue with the paper analogy, lets say that you just like heavier paper, who doesn't? So since having talked to me you know that two brands of paper, if they're the same weight (thickness) and the same finish (color, texture) probably came from the same mill and off of the same roll, and are sold under two brand names. Lets say you have two choices, HP brand and Office Depot brand, and the HP is $2 more. Now, you are educated now, you know they are the same. Out of the box they will look, feel, and preform identically. Which do you buy? If you answer HP then you're admitting that you are a slave to the brand name.

You say that you can't think of many things that you don't get more when you pay more. I can think of many, I'll list them.

1. Cars. Is a Mercedes better in substance than a Lexus? We've all already made that choice.

2. Paper. Now we know that paper comes from only a few sources, yet recognizable brand costs more.

3. Gas. Most people always say "Buy only name brand gas" when in actuality, gas all comes from the same refineries. Different companies just fill up their tankers from the same source, its all more or less the same. Yet "name brand" gas costs more. Sunoco sells "94 octane" for $.20 more a gallon tahn 93, 1 octane cannot possibly make any difference in performance, yet people buy it.

4. Car service. We all say up and down that the dealerships overcharge on here, and that you get better quality at independent shops for less.

5. Clothes. I only wear name brand clothing, polo, dockers, etc. My fiancee has always bought off brand clothing. She always machine washes her clothes, I always dry clean mine. Her clothes FAR outlast mine. I have bought her expensive brand clothing as gifts, they always wear out before stuff she's had for years and years.

6. Food. Canned vegetables, cereal, other canned goods, produce all come from the same source and are bottled/canned/boxed by the specific manufacturers. Yet brand names cost 50% more on average.

7. Computers. My $3000 Sony computer just fried its motherboard. I took it in and was chatting with the guy who does the service. He says Sony, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, all the big names and big money computers are the ones that always fail. Cheap off brand or store brand (emachines, gateway, vprmatrix) or hand built computers are much more reliable.

8. Cell phone service. Some of the more expensive carriers have the least in thrown in services, the least minutes, and the least coverage included. Verizon wireless comes to mind.

9. Watches. I have a $150 Seiko watch that has never let me down that people always mistake for a Movado, a $1000 watch.

10. Credit cards. American Express has marketed themselves as the card of the elite forever, monthly fees, expensive rates for merchants etc. What they don't tell you is that other, free credit cards offer all the same frills, AND MORE, and are accepted MORE places. If you pay the whole balance off every month like you have to with an American Express card you wont incur ANY charges.

Now, I've listed you 10 things that you pay more for and get nothing, or even less than with less expensive options. I'm not saying I'm immune, I have my car serviced at the dealer, I run premium fuel, I use synthetic oil, I'm wearing a $70 Polo shirt right now, I have an American Express card, and I have a Sony computer. I'm not saying people shouldn't spend money on these things, you only have one life and you have to do what makes you happy. All I'm saying is people need to think for themselves and be skeptical of where their money is going.

My problem lies with people that make comments like "Don't be cheap", "Drive something less expensive" when people want to save money. I could say the same to all of you who dont use dealer service, you're being cheap but I wouldn't because thats your decision to make. Everyone has different priorities. I would never buy a used car, but that doesn't mean that I think buying new cars is better than buying used, or that my car is better than any of yours simply because I purchased it new. I realize that I have wasted money buying new, but I don't care. You can not care all you want, but you shouldn't allow yourselves to be duped into thinking you haven't wasted money by the advertisers.

Just be aware of the truth, not what companies want you to believe because that is most definately not the truth.

[SW03ES]

The rating I see at the pump is 91 though. Does this mean I'm not getting the best grade fuel? If so, no wonder the prices at this station are always a few cents lower than others in the Los Angeles area. Thanks for your comments in advance. ( drive a 94 LS 400, btw).

The octane ratings vary in different parts of the country due to emissions regulation, altitude, local rules and regulations. Thats why Lexus specifies 90 octane or better, because this will always be premiun fuel wherever the owner lives. 91 is the highest you have availiable. In your climate and area it preforms just like 93 does in mine. That make more sense?

[blake918]

I can agree to that to a certain extent...my dad has taught me that MB's(and pretty much all other European makes) are junk ever since I was 5.

With the paper. I'll admit that I'd probably go for the HP paper because I wouldn't take the time to compare the lables. I'd just automatically assume that the HP is better because of the price.

1. Agreed. However, I'd like to add that on the MB you're not paying for top reliability; you're paying for the hood orniment and the recognition that goes with it. And with this name recognition comes added Piece of Mind(for most things! MB excluded)!!!

2. Ok...name recognition always cost more; see #1 lol

3. I don't agree; while it might all come from the same refineries, they all mix different additives in: some better, some worse (techron, etc.)

4. I was actually thinking about that 1 as I typed that statement! Believe it or not you do get some nice things with the extra prices at Lexus: mainly a Lexus loaner car that is less than 1 year old and more important their accountability-they'll most likely still be in business tomorrow(sorry Lex3486!). If I wern't a broke teen, my car would go to the dealership for service. However, if you don't feel the need to sit in a leather chair while waiting for your car to be serviced then washed, you can always go to an independant guy for a lot less money. Along with the gas, I think we can mark this one under the "piece of mind" category. I think the only ind. mechanic I'd trust is JPI!

5. That comparison is way to obsured. I'm skeptical that both you and your fiance have done the exact same activities(better oppertunities for tears, wear, etc.) while wearing designer clothes and WalMart clothes. Also, your clothes were dry cleaned, and she machine washed hers. The chemicals your dry clearner uses might not mix well with the clothing fabrics and what not. It's a lot of BS, but all I'm saying is that your comparison is not on level playing ground. My parents are into all of the expensive clothes(suits, sweaters, shoes etc.) too. They are just different from the $35 Old Navy get-up I've got on as we speak. The fabrics are softer; the colors are brighter; they fit you like they were taylored just for you; they are obviously higher quality pieces.

6.It's(fruit, veggies, other cans) just like meat. It all comes from the same place, but some cuts are better than others. In the abense of meat, we can say quality. The store branded cans probably have more brusied and lower quality items per x amount of cans. I'm not much of a cereal person, so I can't argue if the stuff w/o a box taste just as good the stuff with the pretty box.

7. I dunno...kinda agree. Computer manufactures all use the similar componet companies like Intel, ATI, AMD, and so on. I think the failure is a random thing...maybe not random, but inevitable is a better word. The manuf's probably know that x amount of them will fail just out of man. defects, and whose to know if Sony or Dell will get that lousey video card?? I've got a $3500 Apple computer in my room that fried it's video card in the first year I had it which costed another $300. It's the same video card in the dinky HP that I'm talking to you on right now that's 4 years old and going fine. I suppose I'm getting at electronic failure is not price bracket specific, so my super high tech Apple computer has just as good of a chance of failing as the $400 Dell you see on TV.

8. Noo way. My dad just switched to Nextel in an attempt to lower his $500 cell phone bill. What a mistake! The Nextel is garbage eventhough he did save like $200 a month. Needless to say he's coughing up the extra $ for Cingular's better service.

9. Timex's are indestructable and cheap, but I did have a Fossil($100) watch that was the biggest POS ever-the hands would move freely after I had it for several months. I replaced it with a Seiko that was 2x the cost, and just like your's the thing is awesome.

10. Agreed! I know what you're saying about the Am Express card. My dad used to have one for his company expenses; very few places would accept it. I dunno why anyone wouldn't want a free Master card or Visa?

Great point about simply being aware of what you're getting for your money and where it's going. :D

[UCF3]

Birger Writes:

"Hi

I own a 1996 LS400 for about a 1 1/2 year and all I use is 87 octane, I

get about 18.7 miles per gallon in city, on the hwy I get 25.8 miles

per gallon and I allways use the cruse control.

I would tell you to go ahead and use the 87 octane as long as you don't

hear any ping in the engine.

Birger"

AND

"Hi

I forgot to tell you that I have 111.536 miles on my 1996 LS400 and

still using only regular gasoline with no troubles.

Birger".

Please Click on "QuickReply" or "New Reply" to reply on any post.

[93LSOwner]

Well, let’s start off with the paper. Like, I mentioned “will be printing lots of pictures,” I bought the paper because I have a senior project due and will be printed from my printer. It is a project that will only determine if I graduate or not. It will also be read by just about every student and teacher in my school, then the judges. Well, if you print pictures in the “best quality setting” the printer will throw out a lot of ink, now if you have thin sheet of paper do you think it will absorb it better than the other? Like I mentioned I have HP: PC, monitor, printer, scanner and an external CD-RW Driver and had it for 7 years now; so, I know about the company.

Computers. My $3000 Sony computer just fried its motherboard. I took it in and was chatting with the guy who does the service. He says Sony, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, all the big names and big money computers are the ones that always fail. Cheap off brand or store brand (emachines, gateway, vprmatrix) or hand built computers are much more reliable.

When I worked at Circuit City, my manager stated that E-machines are not cheaper because they have cheaper parts than HP or Sony, but they are not tested by the manufacturers before they come out. The customer has to pay for any services the manufacturers perform to make their product. Now, before you start hitting up saying something. That Sales manager has led that Circuit City store to be the second Circuit City store in the state of NC for the highest sales. He also had his own business in cell phones and other wireless products. So, I guess that guy might know a thing or two about this stuff.

I didn’t go around asking mechanics about what Lexus is all about. I could have asked my mechanic, “Hey what do you think of such and such car [a car which gives a lot of problems at the miles it had]” Now do you think he would say, NO don’t buy it OR he could say, that’s a good deal and make a so called “sucker” and pay “his bills [maybe to a LS430]. Or I have another idea, how about going to this website called LOC.com and see what they say. Ding, Ding, Ding, OH Yeah: I forgot this a website full of LEXUS enthusiasts, I wonder what they are going to say. I had some references to look at, about 8 of my friends other relatives have Gen. 1 LS400s and have good miles on it and I know a lot about there cars and their histories. This, the mechanic and LOC led me to buy Lexus over BMW or Mercedes.

My point: There is something called trust & common sense.

Now, you can’t buy everything in relation to the price of it but you can use some references and common sense.

Aside the paper issue. If you go back to everything you buy, aren’t they all made from the same elements? Lexus and Bentleys have huge price difference; But aren’t they both made out of metal?

Just because something says its better doesn't mean its actually better or that its going to make what you're doing with it any better.

Now, lets go back to the paper. Both kinds are made exactly the same but one says it is better than the other and the makers know he/she is exaggerating the truth or even lying. Maybe, that’s why some quoting: “some” business leaders are a lot wealthier than some lets say doctors with Ph.D. and some descent ethics & morals.

Cough, cough. By the way: How about looking into your own collar before coming to conclusions.