Spent Some Time With A Ford Flex Today...

[SW03ES]

My father in law was in town breifly today and we exchanged Christmas presents and went out to dinner. His Lincoln Navigator is in the shop (again, its a real peice...) and they gave him a new Ford Flex to drive on his trip while they were figuring out why the Navigator died in the middle of the road...again.

Anyways we were very impressed with the Flex. Its kind of a funky surfer-dude looking vehicle. but its unique. VERY spacious (they are really big, deceptively big, its about as long as a Navigator probably) but very easy to drive. Rode great, very smooth drivetrain, excellent quality materials.

I would buy one...

[TA in KC]

Interesting. I guess Ford is the best of the domestics. Any pictures of the Flex?

[SW03ES]

Here;s one:

[jcrome04]

I hate the dash. The model I sat in had WAYYYYY too many buttons it looked like a big mess.

Sounds like an overall good vehicle though.

Have you seen the 2010 Fusion???? Now THAT is an amazing vehicle.

[TA in KC]

The styling reminds me of the first-generation Scion xB. Not a bad looking car, but I could do without the lines on the doors.

I have not seen the interior of the flex other than in the TV commercial, but if it is like other current Fords, the fit and finish is probably much improved over their previous products.

It will be interesting to see if this becomes a popular model.

[cduluk]

Not the best looking vehicle but supposedly Ford is making them with better quality...

[SW03ES]

The fit and finish on the interior is excellent. I liked the layout of the dash...

[BillyShaft]

Man...I guess each person has different likes/dislikes.

Personally, I think that is possibly the ugliest vehicle I have seen in a while. I think that my cat could have designed it if he had been given the task of producing a shoebox shaped 4-door crossover. I think he would have left the grooves off the door tho, since he isn't a highly-paid automotive designer.

No offense intended for those who may love it...it just hasn't grown on me. /shudder

[LEXIRX330]

Man...I guess each person has different likes/dislikes.

Personally, I think that is possibly the ugliest vehicle I have seen in a while. I think that my cat could have designed it if he had been given the task of producing a shoebox shaped 4-door crossover. I think he would have left the grooves off the door tho, since he isn't a highly-paid automotive designer.

No offence intended for those who may love it...it just hasn't grown on me. /shudder

I have to X2 what Billy said. Not my taste.

[cduluk]

I know the Mazda Cx9 is a nice lookin vehicle with really nice materials. I always liked the 05 Lincoln Aviator's as well as far as materials and looks.

Still would take a Toyota/Lexus over ford/lincoln/mercury/mazda however <_<

[eatingupblacktop]

Looks like a cross between a Scion and a Mini Clubman. The lines on the doors look like they were put there after the designers were done with it. Not my taste, but then neither is the current Lexus GX. The Audi Q7 looks a hella better. If as SW mentions, Ford has improved the fit and finish, then maybe they can stay afloat long enough to convince buyers with this and other models in the wings, that once the car recession bottoms out, they'll have the quality consumers want. Right now they're the only American manufacturer not asking for a handout. Just sayin'.

[smooth1]

Contrary to what most people may think, Ford makes a good product. I think they are just out of touch with what consumers really want. The Flex being another example. If pure user space and functionality are your only priority, and you don't care what it looks like, then the Flex may just fit the bill. Some retro designs are better left in the past I would say.

I've driven the Flex also. The only complaint I had was the steering wander that seems to keep you in the constant correcting mode to drive. But other than that, the Flex does ride pretty nice.

[SW03ES]

I'm not saying its styling is what impressed me, what impressed me was the quality of its construction, the build and material quality, the smooth ride and smooth powertrain, and the amount of room. Its a unique looking vehicle, I wouldn't say its the best looking vehicle I've ever seen, no.

Contrary to what most people may think, Ford makes a good product.

This is true, however they have not in recent future made vehicles as good as those from Toyota and Honda. Take my fathr in-law's Navigator. A $60,000 vehicle with two valves needing to be rebuilt and behing hauled to the dealer 3 times this year on a flatbed. Thats inexcusable.

However, dare I say, this Flex felt much more expensive inside to me than any of the latest slew of Toyotas, and even dare I say the Lexus ES350...

[nc211]

A few months ago I posted a topic about the Flex as well. Foxnews.com had an article about it being "The SUV killer" when gas prices were heading for the $4 range. Oddly enough, the mileage of the Flex wasn't any better than the 4.7 V8 in my 4runner. But, I liked the looks of it then, and still do today, if not more. I think it's pretty cool looking. Kind of a throw-back to the 60's surfer wagons in California. But, it is a Ford, and therefore, I have my "yeah, right" thoughts.

My 07' Mazda 3 GT has FoMoCo stamped all over the mechanicals, from the engine to the mounts. Granted, it's a $21k car, with a little 2.3 I4, which is really a nice engine for what it's meant for, it still shows it's heritage. For instance: the idler tensioner is plastic, and makes a horrible click/clack noise in the mornings. I've had it replaced, the belt replaced twice, even the a/c unit replaced, to try and fix it, but it still comes back. The motor mounts are tiny little things that wear out around 35k miles. They're cheap, oil filled mounts that develop leaks. The clips in the windshield are bad and cause the glass to rattle when under 40 degrees outside, being replaced as well. The intake harness is cheap plastic and rattles (fixable with some foam tape). Some guys with earlier models (05'-06') actually had bolts wiggle loose inside the engine and come off, destroying the engine. Lots of CEL lights reported on the webforum as well. I haven't had any, knock on wood. Also, the transmission is horribly undercooled and very hard on the fluid. After 10k miles, the oem fluid was black and burnt, under normal driving conditions. That sort of stuff is what concerns me the most about Ford. Plus, my neighbors Expidetion has had a leaking front differential for years, with countless replacements done, no fixes. Last I heard, he still had an open lawsuit case going. But, to Ford's credit, he doesn't want to give it up, he just wants some sort of compensation.

The interior of our little Mazda though, is spot-on great! Fit and finish is tight, comfy, and solid, with no rattles what-so-ever. Pretty amazing considering it has those low-profile tires and a suspension that's been known to cause a few hemorroids. We've had no problems with the electronics, computers, fuses, etc. For the most part, the car is mostly Ford. And given our experience with it, I can't complain much. Other than a few minor glitches, it's been a fantastic car. At cruising speed, the mechanicals are dead silent. You can't hear or feel the mechanicals working until around 90mph.

Of the big three, Ford seems to be the one trying the most to change their platform, and succeeding at it too. Outside of the Malibu, I haven't really seen much change from GM. Chrystler, well, we'll see what they come up with under their new ownership structure. I read their business plan that was submitted to congress a few weeks ago. They said they're in the process of HUNDREDS of changes, with a stong focus on electric based automobiling. However, Both GM and Ford's business plans were in the 40 page range, and Chrysler's was only 14 pages. It basically said "give us the money, or we'll fire everyone". So, uh, we'll see. BUT, any automobile maker's claim that "they're the most dependable", will "last forever", type slogan, I think is crap. They might last forever, as my buddy's 1990 4 banger mustang "rustang" did, but so does herpes!

[RX in NC]

I bought our first-ever semi-Ford product ten days ago, a 2005 Jaguar S-Type that I virtually stole for what I call "Honda money". The engine is Ford (actually Lincoln LS), the transmission is German, the coachwork is British, and most of the electronics are Japanese. We got it as a sleek highway cruiser to help take some of the miles off of my wife's 2004 RX330 which is now pushing 86,000 miles. The Jag only had 18,000 miles on it and is in perfect condition with all service records and a squeaky-clean CarFax report. It was a 3-year corporate lease vehicle in Fort Lauderdale, obviously used by a guy who flies a lot more than he drives. Good technical-and-maintenance forums for Jaguar have been hard to find, but I finally stumbled across one today that should prove to be quite helpful. It is active and technical whereas most of the Jag forums I had found previously are nearly empty and tend more towards social gatherings and rallys....

So we'll see how this mish-mash conglomeration of parts and designs from all over the globe holds up in the years ahead. It actually has received very good reviews from Powers once Jaguar fixed their image problem on reliability and dumped the previous Ford transmission used in the early S-Types for the well-proven and bulletproof German ZF transmission starting with the 2003 model....

My wife took the Jag to Florida for her post-Christmas visit with her elderly parents. She says that it performed like a dream throughout the 12-hour trip down there and is expecting the same for her return trip tomorrow....

I'm hoping that this Jaguar with Ford bloodlines will indeed hold up needing nothing but routine maintenance over the years ahead and thereby allow us to keep both the RX330 and the S-Type for a long, long time. Considering I nearly stole the S-Type due to Jaguar's always-accelerated depreciation along with the dealership's desperation in this terrible economy, I really don't consider this car to be much of a gamble....

[SW03ES]

Nice buy RX! I have a client that has an S Type 4.0 the same year and he is very happy with it.

[RX in NC]

Thanks - we'll see how it goes....

I've complained over the years at having to pay $4 to $5 a quart for Toyota Type T-IV transmission fluid at our nearest Toyota dealer. I had to pick myself up off the floor last night when I learned that the ZF transmission fluid required for this Jag runs about $65 a litre at the local Jaguar dealership. But it's a steal at the local Mercedes dealership for only $50 a litre. Maybe BMW sells it for even less. What a deal, huh? More like what a pain in the wallet....

The German 6-speed ZF transmission in this Jag is supposedly "sealed for life". It doesn't even have a dipstick to check the condition or amount of the fluid. I know that the 6-speed version ZF has a bulletproof reputation and at these prices, I surely hope it is indeed "drive it and forget about it"....

[nc211]

Nicely done amigo! My brother has a 92' Jag, with 42k original miles on it, that he calls the lead-sled. He loves it. My father in law has a 01' S Type 4.0 "from Leith Euro" that he likes, but doesn't love. Although, he doesn't drive it that much at all. Although his model year and yours are probably worlds apart in terms of updates and such, his has seen quite a few problems with the a/c unit, and O2' sensors. The security system also kills the battery pretty quickly too, relatively speaking, since he doesn't drive it but maybe once a month. But other than that, it's been good to him. They're not like us though when it comes to car maintenance and upkeep. They buy cars to drive them, period. As where we buy them to enjoy them and maintain them.

I'd be cautious of that ZF transmission being "lifetime" sealed though. BMW put that into their cars too, and many 3 series guys were reporting failures around the 50-60k mark. I think it's pretty much known in the BMW community that 30k is the ceiling for changing out that fluid. Our 05' 4runner has this "sealed" transmission too, and at nearly 70k on the clock now, being who I am about cars, I can tell it's going to need to be changed soon as well. Changing it is no small task either, on any of the sealed transmissions, from what I'm told. I've heard that you have to get the fluid up to operating temp, and do some kind of balancing act to make sure you end up with the proper level. The 4runner requires some kind of wiring bridge in the fuse box to trick the computer into flashing the transmission light when the fluid is at temp. Some kind of morriscode thing. I'd be willing to bet though, the jag forum guys know this stuff front and back. I think my brother is on jaglovers.com "or something similar".

[RX in NC]

Believe me, I did my ZF transmission homework before I made my offer on this particular car. The ZF transmission in the 2003 and 2004 S-Type models was the old 5-speed version, not the newer 6-speed version like ours is. Although they were much better than the original Ford transmission in the 99-03 S-Types that have been so troublesome, they are not as solid and bulletproof as the 6-speed ZF. Your father-in-law has the old Ford transmission, and it really gets trashed on all of the Jag forums. I believe that your father-in-law's biggest problem is that he is not driving his S-Type enough to keep all of its systems primed and operational. You are correct - changing the ZF fluid will be a lengthy and messy job. I'll have to get underneath the car to drain the fluid, then find the top add plug and pump the new fluid into the ZF unit using some kind of manual fluid pump rig that is described on the Jaguar forums. It ain't gonna be easy and it sure ain't gonna be fun. My wife had better guard her turkey baster in the kitchen because I may wind up using it to finish the job....

Jag-lovers.com and Jagplanet.com are both decent forums, but the best I've found by far is at www.forums.roadfly.com. It has supposedly the largest Jag forum in the world and there is no question that it is the most technical of the 6 or 8 I've stumbled across so far. There's a guy on that forum nearly every day named "Real Tech" who is a master Jaguar mechanic and he is an endless fountain of Jag knowledge and expertise. If your brother doesn't know about this particular forum (and "Real Tech"), you should make him aware. I can already tell that this guy is going to save me a ton of time during my learning curve and a wheelbarrow full of money on D-I-Y as well. He answers questions in the most informative, specific, technically-detailed manner of any expert I've ever seen on any forum (including the much-respected dodgetrucks.org forum for my Ram where those guys live and breathe every aspect of Ram trucks and will describe in minute detail what your fix is for any issue you can name, and they're ALWAYS spot-on)....

My wife loves this S-Type. She's on her way back from visiting her parents in Florida today so the car is doing what it does best - being a sleek highway cruiser. She has all but abandoned her RX330. I need to get her back in the RX, though, so I can spend some valuable learning curve time with the Jag while some of what I've learned this week is fresh on my mind. I've got 6.5 months of factory warranty left on the S-Type and much to learn before I assume all maintenance responsibility for it. Of course, I also want to drive it myself a bit since it is such a blast out there on the highways and byways....

[cduluk]

I know my friend's Jetta's transmission is one of those 'sealed' for life types... weird.

[jcrome04]

It's a VW so I'm assuming you meant to say "Failed" for life......right?

hahaha jk I couldn't resist B)

[cduluk]

It's a VW so I'm assuming you meant to say "Failed" for life......right?

hahaha jk I couldn't resist B)

it's not the highest of quality car's, that's for sure...

[jcrome04]

Back on subject... :)

Ford has really stepped up it's game. I still think they just need to release their European cars here. Like the Falcon.