Should I Claim Insurance?

[tex2670]

LexirX330 this may come as suprise to you but -

I don't pay for homeowners insurance either.. I am forunate to own my home out right and if some thing happens like a fire or earthquake I am liscensed contractor and will rebuild myself... If you own your own home free and clear you are not required or obligated to have homeowners insurance on residential properties...

Wow. I guess you've got lots of $$ socked away to pay for all the raw materials, and subs you may want to hire to help (I just hope it's not in your mattress). And to replace the 50" plasma screen, and all your other "stuff" inside the house? You may be able to do the work for free, but there's usually other significant costs involved. Hopefully, you never have to find out what will happen...

Excellent point above about liability--if someone gets hurt on your property, you are paying their claim, and legal fees, yourself.

Not to scare the $hit out of you, but this is a headline today. Good luck self insuring this type of liability:

Phila. Attorney Secures $11 Mil. Settlement in Lackawanna County

The Legal Intelligencer

By Amaris Elliott-Engel

February 20, 2008

An $11 million settlement has been reached in a Lackawanna Common Pleas Court personal injury lawsuit brought over a woman's death in a head-on collision.

Dean O'Halloran of Dunmore was driving a Penske truck eastbound on Route 590 in Salem Township, Wayne County, around 9 a.m. on April 15, 2005, when his truck crossed over the centerline and collided head-on with a Dodge Neon operated westbound by Diane Glynn, the lawsuit complaint in Glynn v. O'Halloran alleged. Glynn was pronounced dead at the scene, according to a Pennsylvania State Police accident report and the lawsuit complaint.

O'Halloran, who is now 25, was driving a company truck and was employed with Erie Materials/Scranton Inc., which had lease-to-own Penske trucks from Penske Truck Leasing Co., according to court papers.

Mark W. Tanner and Daniel J. Mann of Feldman Shepherd Wohlgelernter Tanner & Weinstock represented the plaintiffs: Kerry Glynn of Greentown, the eldest daughter of Glynn and executor of Glynn's estate, as well as Diane Glynn's 14-year-old daughter and 7-year-old son.

Richard G. Fine of Fine Wyatt & Carey in Scranton, a defense attorney in the case, confirmed the settlement but said that, out of respect for his client's confidentiality, he did not want to comment on his client's reasons for settlement or the defense theory of the case.

"I think the settlement was the result of a couple months of negotiations," Fine said.

Jeffrey E. Havran of Fine Wyatt also represented the defendants.

In the defense answer to the lawsuit complaint, the defendants argued they acted within due care at all times and denied "any inference of negligence, carelessness or recklessness."

The settlement was important to the Glynn family because "they like anybody else want justice," Tanner said.

Mann and Tanner said that the $11 million settlement maxed out the defendants' policy limit with Acadia Insurance Co./Fireman's Insurance Co. of Washington.

The plaintiffs' attorneys called their case a strong one because a hospital blood alcohol test showed O'Halloran had a 0.149 blood alcohol level two hours after the accident and because O'Halloran had been in another accident earlier that morning. The test was included in the plaintiffs' motion to file an amended complaint.

According to a Pennsylvania State Police report - included in the plaintiffs' motion to file an amended complaint - about an accident around 6:15 a.m. on April 15, 2005, O'Halloran was driving north on Interstate 81 in Lackawanna County in a 1987 Chevrolet Blazer when he swerved into another northbound vehicle. The report said O'Halloran was observed to "stop on the other side of the road, got out, looked, then drove away."

The police report also said that it was established later that O'Halloran was involved in both the hit-and-run accident and the fatal accident and that the investigation would remain open "pending a determination of county of prosecution."

The plaintiffs' attorneys also said the case was a strong one because it involved potential compensatory damages for Diane Glynn's two youngest children, who were placed in foster care after her death before her 14-year-old daughter was adopted by Kerry Glynn and her 7-year-old son was adopted by his aunt.

Tanner said that he indicated to the defense he would try the case unless they settled for $11 million. The settlement was reached last month.

The plaintiffs' attorneys said that with the case settled they will send letters to law enforcement authorities, including the Pennsylvania State Police's internal affairs, raising the question of whether O'Halloran should face criminal charges.

"There's never been a criminal prosecution. And that's what we're working on next," Tanner said.

Officials from the Wayne County District Attorney's Office said last Wednesday that they did not have any record of any criminal charges filed against O'Halloran.

According to the Pennsylvania State Police accident report related to the fatal accident, Gail Wintermute, a witness to the accident, said that O'Halloran's vehicle crossed the centerline about five times; Wintermute was afraid O'Halloran would run into him, pulled off the road and observed O'Halloran's vehicle cross from the eastbound lane into the westbound lane and strike Diane Glynn's vehicle. The accident report was included in the plaintiffs' motion to file an amended complaint.

During O'Halloran's June 7, 2006, deposition, Havran instructed O'Halloran to assert his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination when Tanner asked O'Halloran if he had consumed any alcoholic beverages the night before the accident.

During the deposition, O'Halloran said that he did not know what happened during the accident. O'Halloran had a left knee laceration and possibly hit his head because of the accident, according to his deposition.

At the time of the deposition, O'Halloran reported that he was currently on workers' compensation and that he had not returned to his prior employer because he found it emotionally stressful to be there. O'Halloran said he reported for work at 6:30 a.m. the day of the accident, according to his deposition.

During the March 14, 2007, deposition with the first state police trooper responding to the fatal accident, Trooper Patrick Foy said that O'Halloran "was coherent, didn't have an odor of an alcoholic beverage about him, didn't appear to be injured in a major way." Foy also said that he believed O'Halloran had fallen asleep behind the wheel and that the weaving observed by the accident witness could indicate sleep deprivation.

During the March 14, 2007, deposition of O'Halloran's stepfather, Michael McTavish, a corporal in the Pennsylvania State Police, McTavish said that he attended Foy's interview with O'Halloran to give his stepson moral support. McTavish said in the deposition that O'Halloran indicated in the interview that he believed he had nodded off and drifted off the shoulder of the road.

McTavish also said during the deposition that he did not know of the other, earlier accident but that Foy did ask O'Halloran if anything else had occurred earlier that morning.

[bartkat]

Come on guys, let's get back to the topic of the question the thread starter asked. I think it's pretty well been answered as he found out what it would do to his rates to make that claim.

I might add that any time you have an at fault claim it's not only going to raise your rates, but if you get enough claims the insurance company can put you into another class and even force you into "risk insurance". That's going to cost a bunch and take years of no accidents and not even traffic tickets to requalify for lower rates. The attitude that you ought to make claims because you are paying for the insurance has absolutely no standing with the insurance companies themselves.

[JIBBBY]

I can see I am getting a lot of negative feed back based on my previous posts and comments in regards to my thoughts and suggestions on insurance ... Ignorance is bliss, keep paying those high insurance premiums, keep supporting and building those huge insurance companies, and keep sleeping secure and safe at night knowing your fully covered all the way accross the board.. That's fine and dandy for most but don't knock me for going outside the BIG COMPANY money pits.... It's worked for me and I sleep just fine at night..

I am going to try to answer the skeptics.. Remember I am only trying to help you people and offer the big picture and nothing more... Insure or don't insure it's your choice..

1) An insurance bond is much cheaper then yearly insurance premiums.. If I hit or kill someone by mistake in my car, my personal liability insurance will cover up to $30,000... Most "normal" auto insurance companies offer the same coverage $30,000... So in the event of a catastropic event such as that you must remember you can always be held responsible over and above your insurance coverages and have your assets stripped from you in a court of law regardless.. That's my logic and it's undisputed... This is good for people that just want to insure their used vehicles with liability coverage only...Obviously this won't work when seeking out full coverage which would be required on a new and or leased vehicle...

2) No, I do not have a wife or kids yet. If I did have a family I would consider life insurance to compensate my wife and kids in the event of my untimely death to insure their continued financial security...That's about the only smart insurance I can think of.. That's called being responsible for your loved ones.. Single and swinging though I don't see the need for life insurance..

3) Someone asked why not insure your home incase someone trips or gets injured on your property. Well, I say it's a private home with no apparent hazards on it..I will hire an attorney and fight the more then likely frivilous injury claim... My propery is well kept, no trip or fall hazards anywhere on the property.. This is my personal home, who is going to trip fall and sue me, my mom and or gardener, the mail man maybe, come on? I think I will take my chances on that long shot... Again, even if insured with a good homeowners policy and someone trips and falls and sue's...They can always sue you over and above the full coverage of the homeowners policy anyway..

This stuff works for me as it may not work for others... So don't be harsh people as I am just sharing my thoughts and opinions and nothing more... I am not telling you not to insure I am just trying to make people aware of what I do and why I do it...

[LEXIRX330]

I can see I am getting a lot of negative feed back based on my previous posts and comments in regards to my thoughts and suggestions on insurance ... Ignorance is bliss, keep paying those high insurance premiums, keep supporting and building those huge insurance companies, and keep sleeping secure and safe at night knowing your fully covered all the way accross the board.. That's fine and dandy for most but don't knock me for going outside the BIG COMPANY money pits.... It's worked for me and I sleep just fine at night..

I am going to try to answer the skeptics.. Remember I am only trying to help you people and offer the big picture and nothing more... Insure or don't insure it's your choice..

1) An insurance bond is much cheaper then yearly insurance premiums.. If I hit or kill someone by mistake in my car, my personal liability insurance will cover up to $30,000... Most "normal" auto insurance companies offer the same coverage $30,000... So in the event of a catastropic event such as that you must remember you can always be held responsible over and above your insurance coverages and have your assets stripped from you in a court of law regardless.. That's my logic and it's undisputed... This is good for people that just want to insure their used vehicles with liability coverage only...Obviously this won't work when seeking out full coverage which would be required on a new and or leased vehicle...

2) No, I do not have a wife or kids yet. If I did have a family I would consider life insurance to compensate my wife and kids in the event of my untimely death to insure their continued financial security...That's about the only smart insurance I can think of.. That's called being responsible for your loved ones.. Single and swinging though I don't see the need for life insurance..

3) Someone asked why not insure your home incase someone trips or gets injured on your property. Well, I say it's a private home with no apparent hazards on it..I will hire an attorney and fight the more then likely frivilous injury claim... My propery is well kept, no trip or fall hazards anywhere on the property.. This is my personal home, who is going to trip fall and sue me, my mom and or gardener, the mail man maybe, come on? I think I will take my chances on that long shot... Again, even if insured with a good homeowners policy and someone trips and falls and sue's...They can always sue you over and above the full coverage of the homeowners policy anyway..

This stuff works for me as it may not work for others... So don't be harsh people as I am just sharing my thoughts and opinions and nothing more... I am not telling you not to insure I am just trying to make people aware of what I do and why I do it...

Most normal policies...you might have meant most state minimum policies. My policy will cover up to $500,000 for bodily injury, and $250,000 for property damage. The state actually sets the minimum coverage, but there is litigation to have that changed and controlled by the federal government because the states are to low. DE is 15 for bodily injury, MD is 20 and VA is 25. These are the states I am licensed in and I can tell you for sure the only people that are driving around with state minimums that we insure and most other agencies in our area are young drivers that have nothing to their name. In most states the coverage that you carry for the other person also would be the same coverage amount that you would have in the event that someone hit you without insurance. Sure you can be sued for more than what your limits are. If you have someone sue you to get a good attorney to represent you in a serious claim I am sure that you will spend well over $10,000 - $20,000. That is on top of any money you could have to pay to the person suing you. My homeowner’s policy would pay out $250,000. Who can sue you…anyone. Do you ever invite a friend over…do you have a dog or any pet?

As far as life insurance you will be the same person who applies for a life policy when they have had a major change in health…heart attack or something and then is telling everyone the insurance companies are ripping people off since they will only accept you if you are healthy. There are plenty of reasons to buy life insurance when you are single, the main one is your health and age, which is what your premiums are derived from.

Your logic to not have insurance because insurance companies make loads of money is down right stupid. Wal-Mart makes loads of money no groceries; McDonalds makes loads of money, no big Macs...come on. What type of appliances do you have in your home…my god don’t let it be GE, or Maytag…they make loads of money. I could go on for days on that argument. Unless you live in a log cabin of trees that you cut down by hand and live like survivor man.

I guess toyota/lexus doesn’t make enough money yet since you bought a Lexus.

You are just spewing out opinions. The first poster asked a question should he file a claim. You say yes that is why you are paying for it. That was not good advice…that was my point.

[JIBBBY]

My guess is that you are paying for that large insurance coverage, right? It also sounds like you are wasting money by being over insured.....Just so you know, I can increase the bond amount for more insurance coverage if I so choose.. The $30,000 is what I elected to get and is a personal choice... As far as homeowner insurance coverage is concerned my friends won't sue me and I don't have any pets, nice try..... What else? My stupidy as you claim has saved me thousands of dollars over the years and I am laughing all the way to the bank while you my friend will keep paying for those high insurance premiums every year to give you peace of mind.....Bla bla bla...

I don't want to get in a *BLEEP*ing contest with you or anyone else, but like I said before what works for me may not work for you or others.... The bottom line is I have cut out just about all insurance costs in my life, incurred very little risk in doing so while staying legal... Is that being stupid or is that being cost effective?

Just so you know - My logic and opinions has served me well over the years in business, investing, etc...Lexir330 let me ask? - Do you own your home free and clear in a very nice area? Do you own your cars out right? Do you own a commercial propery that is leased and paying you off a nice profit each and every month?

If you do have real assets Lex330- Did you aquire your assets thru hard work and smart investing before the age of 40? Well, I did and this is not an attempt to brag about what I have achieved or have but to clearly state that I believe my opinions and actions are not just plain stupid as you so claim......Now, with all that being said I humbly and respectively say - I must be doing something right in my life and must not be as stupid as you say I am....

[bartkat]

Moving to General Discussion.

[jcrome04]

Yeah I'd say try to have the city or county (or whevever it was) pay for it since it's their responsibility to maintain the roads.

[LEXIRX330]

Jibby-

I did not call you stupid. I said that the logic that you used was stupid. Example: Your logic to not have insurance because insurance companies make loads of money is down right stupid. Wal-Mart makes loads of money no groceries; McDonalds makes loads of money, no big Macs...come on. What type of appliances do you have in your home…my god don’t let it be GE, or Maytag…they make loads of money. I could go on for days on that argument. Unless you live in a log cabin of trees that you cut down by hand and live like survivor man.

I am not starting a P I S S I N G contest either...and I contacted Barkart and asked him to reopen this thread...I am enjoying this conversation with you...I love hearing others views...

I am 28; the first home that I had was all but paid for when I sold it. The home that I live in now, well lets just say I am in one of the best areas in my location...no it is not paid for but by the time that I am 40 it should be paid for. By the way the personal injury attorney that lives across the street from me would have your home, commercial land and any other asset you have in your name if he represented anyone that was injured by you in an accident. I have more than enough equity in my home. Interest is tax deductible still right??? My cars...some are paid for others are not, so what...I am driving new cars. If I wanted to pay all of them off, I can. My wife stays home and takes care of our newborn son and only works maybe a day a week. I make a great living...and invest my money very wisely...and I can say I earned what I have. That is why I make sure that I have insurance to protect what I have.

Just had a client not long ago who's home burned to the ground. Home was insured for 300K. Now by the time the claim was settled, the insurance company had paid out close to 500K. Their premium was $550.00 year; it will only take them 909 years to pay that back to the insurance company using the premiums that they had been paying. That seems to me a wise investment of $505/ year. Maybe not you...

But I do have one last question for you...

Do you require the commercial property tenant that you have to have insurance...I bet you do!

[SW03ES]

Jibby, I hope you never hit me or hurt me or someone in my family. $30k bond? That won't even make a dent in any liability you may have. You maim someone and the suit STARTS at 7 figures. $30,000? Thats a joke.

I'd have everything you own. If thats okay with you fine, but don't call me or others tupid or foolish by taking the responsibility to adequately insure our assets and protect ourselves from liability in the event something unforseen may happen.

What if you have a house fire and your house is destroyed and you are maimed and cannot repair it? Even if you did repair it yourself...materials aren't free.

Recipie for disaster. Talk to any financial advisor...one that does not sell insurance and look at their face when you feed them that crap.

[eatingupblacktop]

Jibbby, each to their own devices. Unfortunately insurance is like taxes and most recently, the cost of fuel. Everything seems to be on the rise leaving us scrambling to catch up. Personally I have $2M PLPD coverage for both cars. I'm downtown a lot. If I was to hit and maim or kill one of those BAY STREET (WALL STREET in Canada) CEO's, lawyers or investors, even with that coverage, I'd be lucky not to be working for the rest of my life paying off the claim against me. I mitigate the policy by lowering much of the rest of my coverage so the premium doesn't get out of hand. For example, on the Volvo, I've dropped collision (because it's an older car) and fire & theft (don't think anyone's going to be interested in stealing it - especially if I park next to bimmers or benzes).

I have a commercial lease that stipulates $2.5M liability coverage.....no choice there......either I get the coverage or I can look elsewhere for a lease.

On the other hand, I know someone who is a manager in commercial transportation. His company insure themselves. They are bonded for over $20M instead of being insured with a major carrier. He tells me the savings for that company are phenomenal.

I applaud your stand against the rising tide of insurance rate hikes and I think many of us support you in spirit, but the levels of protection you have established for yourself would never work for me, and I would guess for most others. Good luck.

[JIBBBY]

Jibby-

I did not call you stupid. I said that the logic that you used was stupid. Example: Your logic to not have insurance because insurance companies make loads of money is down right stupid. Wal-Mart makes loads of money no groceries; McDonalds makes loads of money, no big Macs...come on. What type of appliances do you have in your home…my god don’t let it be GE, or Maytag…they make loads of money. I could go on for days on that argument. Unless you live in a log cabin of trees that you cut down by hand and live like survivor man.

I am not starting a P I S S I N G contest either...and I contacted Barkart and asked him to reopen this thread...I am enjoying this conversation with you...I love hearing others views...

I am 28; the first home that I had was all but paid for when I sold it. The home that I live in now, well lets just say I am in one of the best areas in my location...no it is not paid for but by the time that I am 40 it should be paid for. By the way the personal injury attorney that lives across the street from me would have your home, commercial land and any other asset you have in your name if he represented anyone that was injured by you in an accident. I have more than enough equity in my home. Interest is tax deductible still right??? My cars...some are paid for others are not, so what...I am driving new cars. If I wanted to pay all of them off, I can. My wife stays home and takes care of our newborn son and only works maybe a day a week. I make a great living...and invest my money very wisely...and I can say I earned what I have. That is why I make sure that I have insurance to protect what I have.

Just had a client not long ago who's home burned to the ground. Home was insured for 300K. Now by the time the claim was settled, the insurance company had paid out close to 500K. Their premium was $550.00 year; it will only take them 909 years to pay that back to the insurance company using the premiums that they had been paying. That seems to me a wise investment of $505/ year. Maybe not you...

But I do have one last question for you...

Do you require the commercial property tenant that you have to have insurance...I bet you do!

Well, since we are discussing these issues at hand in a civil manner I will continue... When my commercial property was leased to the tenant which he is now running a new car dealership off my property, I absolutely required him to pay for the complete insurance costs for the property and business...Since, there is high customer traffic on the lot I believe it is an absolute need to cover trip and fall hazards, etc.... Infact, I had created a common commercial lease called the "triple net lease" where as the commercial tenant pays the full insurance premiums, taxes and land up keep.... I do nothing but recieve checks on the first of every month... Commercial real estate when leased is absolutely the best way to invest your money in real property.... No headaches what so ever, tenant repairs, etc.. Just nothing... However, it can get a little tricky when vacant and trying to re-rent but then again that all depends on the demand and location of the commercial property... They have commercial leasing agents to assist with that....

Well Lexir330, it sounds like from your posts you are on your way to financial freedom...Good job.....

I do appologise for slightly jacking this thread, but I am still talking about insurance issues which does follow the topic to this thread sort of.... I am also giving up some financial gems...

[JIBBBY]

Jibby, I hope you never hit me or hurt me or someone in my family. $30k bond? That won't even make a dent in any liability you may have. You maim someone and the suit STARTS at 7 figures. $30,000? Thats a joke.

I'd have everything you own. If thats okay with you fine, but don't call me or others tupid or foolish by taking the responsibility to adequately insure our assets and protect ourselves from liability in the event something unforseen may happen.

What if you have a house fire and your house is destroyed and you are maimed and cannot repair it? Even if you did repair it yourself...materials aren't free.

Recipie for disaster. Talk to any financial advisor...one that does not sell insurance and look at their face when you feed them that crap.

SWO3ES - My friend, I would not call anyone stupid or foolish period...I respect every ones opinions and am only trying to express my own... Maybe I said something to that effect because I was getting blasted for my non insurance opinions and suggestions... A man can only take so much...

Ok, SWO3ES I like you, but I don't think you will be taking everything I own if I crashed into you...I will explain later..

First off in the State of California we are required to carry liability insurance no less then $30,000... I would venture to guess 70% or more of the drivers here in California have that type of coverage, which includes illegals, low income individuals, etc... It is not that uncommon... Yes, but these people do not own real assets, so that coverage makes sense to them as they don't have much to lose... I understand that..

Now, getting into the security blanket of my assets, do you really think I would have all my properties solely in my name alone so I can get sued and lose them all? Now that would be stupid.. Ever heard of incorporating your assets, living trusts, etc... My house and commercial assets are owned in different enities...You may possibly sue for one of my assets if you can find them but not more then one, impossible by law..... That's basically called putting your assets not in one basket... If I were to get sued the worst I would get is probably a judgement on my name which I could deal with... I am basically an employee to the corporation so I wouldn't lose any of my assets... My wages may get attached though and that would suck at worst...

So if I were to get in an accident that was my fault, that someone would most likely see that I don't own any assets under my name in the legal records, and would only sue most likely to maximum insurance coverage I am offering $30,000... That is what happens most of the time but not all the time...

Lastly, the biggest problem I have with dealing with assets set up in this way is you get stung with taxes... I do not have a lot of right offs so I pay uncle Sam, but I guess that is a good problem.... If I were leveraged and insured I would have more right offs, and pay less in taxes every year...That is the only down side I see....

Again, I don't think my logic is stupid, but I believe it is actually very clever and well planned...

Any other questions my fellow comrads?

[SW03ES]

SWO3ES - My friend, I would not call anyone stupid or foolish period...I respect every ones opinions and am only trying to express my own... Maybe I said something to that effect because I was getting blasted for my non insurance opinions and suggestions... A man can only take so much...

As an outsider looking in the exchange I saw was completely one sided. You were getting reactions about your statements but they weren't incendiary, you all but called us stupid for owning insurance several times.

That works for you and thats great. Me? I'll just pay for insurance and structure my assets in such a way that protects me from tax liability. You're paying one way or the other, you're just paying the government instead of the insurance companies by your own admission.

[JIBBBY]

Well I can't argue with you there SWO3E3... However, I looked over this thread I can't find where I called anyone directly stupid one time?...If anything it was the opposite way around....SWO3E3, Please post with accurate statements so I don't look like a frigg'n *BLEEP*o...Thanks...

I guess I can say it's better to pay taxes then insurance companies, no?... Atleast my tax money is being spent in our countries budget and not going towards some over paid over weight insurance CEO sitting behind the desk doing nothing other then wondering how he shot so poorly in his last golf game..... ;)

[nc211]

Now this is my kind of language! Jibby, you're structured with SPE's aren't you? Single Purpose Entity, Bankruptcy remote, non-consolidating entities, that at the top of the food chain are all attached under one single umbrella, and you fall a few ticks down from the top for protection. But, a search through the secretary of state records, and a couple of others, one could easily make the connections through LLC documents, registered agents, etc.... It can be done, but only by those who know what to look for. So just be careful man, you're not as protected as one might think. You're not flapping in the wind, but in a worse case scenario, piercing your armor is possible. One might not "own" all of your assets, but one could possibly "control" them, which is even worse...you have all the liabilty, and they have all the benefits. But, it's doubtful due to legal expenses to get to this point, that it would ever happen. There is ALWAYS a top tip of that umbrella, and 9 out of 10 times, it's found as an "employee" of one of the LLCs.

On a side note, you mention one of your properties is actually being used as a car lot? You've got the tenant on a nnn lease, but do you have complete indeminety to environmental matters from the tenant? Anything having to do with automobiles/photo labs/ dry cleaners/ chemicals in general, you better have an IRON-CLAD agreement in that lease that holds the tenant solely and completely liable for all environmental matters that were created by them. Depending on the size of the operation, you might wish to require a reserve account/letter of credit issued by them for such issues. As a commercial real estate investor, first for small business purposes / SBA / Start-ups, and now with a major life company that finances major projects around the country & Canada, I can't tell you how many deals I've seen go south because the owner's previous tenant polluted the ground, with no iron clad agreement in the lease for recapture. I mention the Letter of Credit as a preventive measure to bankruptcy filings by the offending tenant. It gives you amunition against the issuing bank in the worst case scenario. All it takes is one bad Phase 1 to spoke off an investor or buyer. Some kid on break accidentaly kicks over the oil drum out back, and you've got a problem amigo, a big problem. Far reaching to the adjacent property owners, and if it finds it's way into the water table below, anything and anyone down gradient from the site has a case against you.

[JIBBBY]

NC211 - It appears I am speaking your language... I agree my situation is not bullet proof from all legal law suits, but the my umbrella is very solid never the less..... Yes the LLC can be traced but not easily... The LLC was executed in Nevada and not in California where I now live and probably most likely would be sued...

You know if I were that unlucky to get rocked in a court of law and lose everything I would simply kiss my assets goodby, get back to work and rebuild with a vengence...... It would give me a new challenge in life.. As you can see I don't hold on so very tight to material things, as I care more about personal health, sanity and state of mind.... I stongly believe health and happiness is everything in life and everything else should be secondary... Still I would not be at all over joyed if I lost everything, but in the real world I don't see that happening... It's like getting hit by a bus or lighting, it can happen but not likely... Can you insure for being struck by lightening? At some point you have to draw the lines and take your chances....

I also agree with you NC211 - If your a single entity it does create a completely different scenaro when considering to insure and for what amount of coverage to insure for..... If you own assets or nothing at all that also makes a huge difference in my opinion.....

In regards to my NNN lease at the car lot I do not have an envirnmental clause written in the lease... However, the lease does state the tenant is to be responsible for any damages caused to the fixed propery and or the grounds... I also have new black top thru out...Don't know how much chemical waste can get thru that new asphalt and polute the soil... Thanks for the heads up regardless, I will look into that....

[SW03ES]

Well I can't argue with you there SWO3E3... However, I looked over this thread I can't find where I called anyone directly stupid one time?...If anything it was the opposite way around....SWO3E3, Please post with accurate statements so I don't look like a frigg'n *BLEEP*o...Thanks...

Sure, here you go:

... Ignorance is bliss, keep paying those high insurance premiums, keep supporting and building those huge insurance companies, and keep sleeping secure and safe at night knowing your fully covered all the way accross the board.. That's fine and dandy for most but don't knock me for going outside the BIG COMPANY money pits....

So, let me get this straight. Does being ignorant suddenly mean smart? Would a smart person "build those huge insurance companies"? We're not 5 years old...we understand tone and intention. You may not have directly called us stupid, but "ignorant" was close enough and we know what you meant.

I guess I can say it's better to pay taxes then insurance companies, no?... Atleast my tax money is being spent in our countries budget and not going towards some over paid over weight insurance CEO sitting behind the desk doing nothing other then wondering how he shot so poorly in his last golf game..... ;)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You don't think your tax dollars make someone overweight a rich behind a desk doing nothing? Do you honestly think a toilet seat costs $300,000? How about this rediculous war that costs us a billion dollars a day?

Thats a stitch.

So yes, I'd rather pay the insurance companies. At least I can buy stock in them and share in their success, and at least if something should happen I'll be okay. You think the government will help you? So did the people in New Orleans.

And before you blame insurance companies in New Orleans. Yes people got screwed out of their insurance claims in N.O., but they didn't have enough insurance. No flood insurance in New Orleans=stupid.

[lambobaby1218]

Just had a client not long ago who's home burned to the ground. Home was insured for 300K. Now by the time the claim was settled, the insurance company had paid out close to 500K. Their premium was $550.00 year; it will only take them 909 years to pay that back to the insurance company using the premiums that they had been paying. That seems to me a wise investment of $505/ year. Maybe not you...

Better yet, a homeowner in my neighborhood had his home burn down during the wildfires of 2003. He didn't reup his insurance only the month before. He's been trying to sell his lot ever since then.......

[JIBBBY]

Like I said, I never directly called anyone stupid...The saying "Ignorance is bliss" is just a common frase and is nothing more then that...

Anyway, I can see you are very disappointed in the way the United States government manages and spends it's money...Where your tax dollars go and for what... It's easy to look at the negatives like everyone usually does... Even though alot of expendatures are questionable within our government, wars, etc...however, the last time I checked the traffic lights still work, steet lights still turn on at night, law enforcement is still intact and responsive, the major streets are still paved, etc... etc.. My tax dollars or lets say atleast a small percentage of my tax dollars I believe still goes to a worthy cause... I've traveled thru many third world countries and I can see the difference between a totally corrupt government and one that is not... This is still in my opinion one of the best countries to reside in in the world .... So, I would say to you stop hating and being so critical of the good ole USA and it's government and try and look for solutions to some of the current problems and look for the positives in bleek situations... I see too much of this negative talk in news, political shows, between political parties, moveis, etc.. We are almost brain washed daily into thinking our government and leaders are totally corrupt all the time... There may be some truth to it, but I still don't like it... The way I see it is we all enjoy are our everyday comfortable and secure life styles here in the USA while living under this "so called hellish and corrupt government of ours" Were is the love?... It was not this way back in the fifties...Most people backed their government, and leaders back in the day...We went to wars fighting for a good cause like WW1 and WW2... Is trying to liberate Iraq's people from the religous fanatics and terrorists and trying to get another strong hold in the middle east all that bad? People are forgetting why we are even over their, we just see our young troops dying on the news daily and a self proclaimed President's agenda against Sadam and Bin Ladin.... I would like to think different...

Does anyone feel as I do?

[scottmcc]

Its amazing how the question of SHOULD I CLAIM Insurance has turned into a thread of Corruption in the OLE USA...

Please lets not turn this into a USA bashing thread. AMERICA and AMERICANS are the most giving and caring people in the world.. I am proud to be an american and proud to pay taxes.. I am happy that I have a job where I can pay my taxes..

Comparing Paying Insurance VS Paying taxes is Ridiculous..There will always be corruption and conspiracy in the US. But who else can shoot a satelitte out of space from a boat floating in the ocean with one shot and pinpoint accuracy?

Do I have a problem with the IRAQ war no.. Could it have been handled better and quicker.. Yes

By the way,, Ignorance is not being stupid..it just means your uninformed.. once your informed you are no longer ignorant..

PS.. What are you going to do with your $600 or $1200 stimulus check..

This thread should be moved!!

[scottmcc]

Nevermind on the moving thing.. I see that it already has been.. Now we can all rant and rave about politics now..

[nc211]

Like I said, I never directly called anyone stupid...The saying "Ignorance is bliss" is just a common frase and is nothing more then that...

Anyway, I can see you are very disappointed in the way the United States government manages and spends it's money...Where your tax dollars go and for what... It's easy to look at the negatives like everyone usually does... Even though alot of expendatures are questionable within our government, wars, etc...however, the last time I checked the traffic lights still work, steet lights still turn on at night, law enforcement is still intact and responsive, the major streets are still paved, etc... etc.. My tax dollars or lets say atleast a small percentage of my tax dollars I believe still goes to a worthy cause... I've traveled thru many third world countries and I can see the difference between a totally corrupt government and one that is not... This is still in my opinion one of the best countries to reside in in the world .... So, I would say to you stop hating and being so critical of the good ole USA and it's government and try and look for solutions to some of the current problems and look for the positives in bleek situations... I see too much of this negative talk in news, political shows, between political parties, moveis, etc.. We are almost brain washed daily into thinking our government and leaders are totally corrupt all the time... There may be some truth to it, but I still don't like it... The way I see it is we all enjoy are our everyday comfortable and secure life styles here in the USA while living under this "so called hellish and corrupt government of ours" Were is the love?... It was not this way back in the fifties...Most people backed their government, and leaders back in the day...We went to wars fighting for a good cause like WW1 and WW2... Is trying to liberate Iraq's people from the religous fanatics and terrorists and trying to get another strong hold in the middle east all that bad? People are forgetting why we are even over their, we just see our young troops dying on the news daily and a self proclaimed President's agenda against Sadam and Bin Ladin.... I would like to think different...

Does anyone feel as I do?

Oh snap... here we go now! Hahaa.... Jibby.... I feel as you do amigo, just haven't expressed it around these parts in a few years.... If anyone wants another NC211 loves the USA rant, just do some searching, 'cause there be a few 'round here. If anyone wants another one, with updated views on our progress in the middle east, please forward your beer money in advance. Although my tolerance has decressed quite a bit since getting married, I can still take down a few Budweisers and get on my soap box of truth!

[jcrome04]

We're so scared of offending the liberals.

Drill for oil in America. If gas was around $2.00 a gallon........is it even a QUESTION the economy would go through the damn roof!!!!!!!!! (and there is no recession just cause the liberal new says there is!!!!) anyways.... I'll try not to get started! hahahah B)

[SW03ES]

Like I said, I never directly called anyone stupid...The saying "Ignorance is bliss" is just a common frase and is nothing more then that...

Sorry, not buying. In order for ignorance to be bliss, we have to be ignorant. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them ignorant.

I never said our government or country wasn't great. I was simply making a counter to your argument that your tax dollars are used to benefit you. Your LOCAL taxes are used to benefit you, but not your federal taxes. I'm happy to pay my taxes, I just don't agree with a lot of what is being done with my money right now.

It has nothing to do with the government, its this administration (and for the record, I have been a republican all my life, I've recently left the republican party because of the corruption in the party and the fact that these people are not behaving like fiscal conservatives). In fact, I resent the implication that those of us who are critical of this administration or our government are "hating on America". Well if thats the case, 70% of Americans are hating on America. Thats ridiculous.

The issue I have with the war in Iraq is that the reasons we got in and the reasons we remain there change to fit the moment. You can't trust liars, and this administration is FULL of crooked liars. Now that we're there we have to do it right, but I don't think we ever should have been there in the first place.

(and there is no recession just cause the liberal new says there is!!!!)

If you believe that this country is not heading for...or already in the early stages of a recession you don't know what you're talking about. Is President Bush a member of the liberal media? Because he believes we're heading for a recession.

A recession is defined as a period of negative economic growth for a period of two fiscal quarters or more. Locally a lot of areas have been experiencing negative economic growth for years, not quarters and nationally our growth is down to lower than it was before the last recession in 2001. With the volitility of the stock market, the mortgage market, and the real estate markets nationwide coupled with the extreme devaluation of the dollar we are DEFINATELY teetering on the edge of, or already sliding into a recession. Thats a fact, and pretending its not happening won't help matters.

[nc211]

Oh, I think it's pretty much a given now, we're in a downturn with several states already in the grips of a recession, like Ohio, Michigan, Florida... In the commercial real estate world, we're evaluating things back in 2004 terms, pretty much wiping the slate clean and hitting the reset button for the past 4 years, just to be safe. I've read numerous "doom & gloom" articles recently, one of which was a 12 step total global financial & economical meltdown scenario, which is possible. I agree steve, it's pretty ugly. Fortunatly from what we're seeing, DC is hanging in there quite well, with still nation leading numbers in terms of employement growth and income levels, but certainly down from 18 months ago. New data is coming out now.

But, I stick by my earlier predictions regarding all of this turmoil in connection with the changing of the guard "presidential election". I think once this country has a clearer picture of who's going to lead the next 4 years, markets will adjust accordingly and get back on track. All the negative press on the markets, are quite academic, and some quite good. But, as my gripe with the scholarly world, they just look at charts and graphs, and always forget the "human factor" of drive. Right now, it's all in limbo, with soooo many different platforms and ideas being thrown around every night on the news. Nobody can see which way we're going yet. Just as it was back in the early 80's when Reagan came in, early 90's when Clinton came in, 2000 when Bush came in, and now... It's a clear cycle, for whatever reasons. The ones who will HANG in the near future are the oil traders who are artificially running up the gas prices with manipulating the futures contracts on wall street. Mark my words, once the election picture is clearer, no matter who wins, and Big Oil is out of the White House, the hammer will drop on the oil sector and we'll be back to normal gas prices.....mark my words. But expect to pay the highest ever during this last and final summer of Bush/Cheney.... The Oil guys will take full advantage of the last spin around the golden fountain.

PS: if you're an analyst from one of the rating agencies "Moody's, SP, Etc...", I wouldn't be bragging about that on your resume' any time soon. Good luck getting a job at the Gap, after the fine job you've done with the AAA ratings on subprime securitization and CDO's.....you idiots! Some of you probably couldn't get the freakin' weather season right, thanks to that multi-million dollar bonus from Santa Clause, predicated on you saying June was winter, and December was summer.