I Drove The New Ls460...now I'm Wondering?

[SW03ES]

The side visibility of the front turn signals on my 00 LS is barely adequate.

How? The signals are on the side of the car...and there's a sidemarker..

The Toyota Avalon Limited is looking better to me all the time.

Don't drive oan LS first then. You recently said you were dissapointed when you drove an ES, you're going to be dissapointed in the Avalon compared to the LS.

[1990LS400]

The side visibility of the front turn signals on my 00 LS is barely adequate.

How? The signals are on the side of the car...and there's a sidemarker..

The Toyota Avalon Limited is looking better to me all the time.

Don't drive oan LS first then. You recently said you were dissapointed when you drove an ES, you're going to be dissapointed in the Avalon compared to the LS.

Steve, the amber front "side marker" (on the side of the bumper) on a 98-00 LS400 is not a turn signal although it might help a little if it was. The problem with the 98-00 front turn signals is that, even though they are on the front corners of the car (instead of in the bumper), during daylight hours the signals can not be easily seen by drivers who are approaching from behind in the lanes on my left and right in my "blind spot", i.e. their front bumper is about even with the rearward edge of my rear door.

It is not a problem at night since the 98-00 LS front turn signals put out LOTS of light and can be easily seen from the side.

Buy an eye patch (you'll probably look like a pirate, LOL) at a drugstore and try driving for a few hours (no, days or weeks!) while wearing it -- I suspect it will be an eye-opening (pun intended) experience. I suspect it is a little difficult for people without seriously impaired vision to understand how one's life and choices have to revolve around selecting products that help mitigate these problems.

It was very frustrating driving my first, then new, 90 LS400 -- I was so taken with the car that I bought it without even noticing that the front turn signals were completely invisible from the side -- just like on the LS460. My driving comfort/pleasure improved immensely after I had a body shop install side turn signals from a European spec LS400 - you can see the additional signals in this photo in the gallery--> http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...=si&img=803

Yes, I agree that the Avalon is disappointing compared to an LS -- but safety has to come first -- it is just too stressfull to drive without turn signals than can be seen at all from the side. Maybe I'll go back to Mercedes -- all of them have wonderful side mirror turn signals. Just kidding, I will probably never buy another Mercedes.

But seriously ... if Toyota thinks it is important to put wonderfully visible side turn signals on their bottom-of-the-line Scion cars (mirror mounted in the tC, body mounted on the xB), why the hell don't they think it is important to provide something similar on their top of the line Lexus cars? Do they think their customers are a bunch of sheep?

Now, after that rant, I should remind myself that our Toyota shares closed today at $126.10 -- a new 52 week high.

[nc211]

I think one of the best additions to the automobile industry in general is the emerging turn signals on the outside of the mirrors, and the signal within the glass of the mirror itself....for the exact reason Jim states here. It is tough to see if an LS is coming over a lane when you're coming up on one to pass it, when you're right at it's rear quarter panel.

[SW03ES]

All valid points, I wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of being alongside the car.

The turn signals integrated into the mirrors are a nice feature I agree, but I personally don't see them as vital by any stretch of the imagination. I have normal vision though...

I think the reason they have them on the tC is that they're considered a "cool" feature.

There are companies that sell signal mirror kits for cars without them too...

[lexuus]

what i dont understand is if the new euro lexus models can have a side turn signal, why cant the new US models have it?

[SW03ES]

Who knows...

[lexuus]

i mean lexus is becoming so into safety precautions that we cant even roll up the windows from our key fobs when the car is off, or control the nav in motion. so i really wonder what the reasoning is behind no side signals for the US.

[Rx330driver]

...its not required...

my number one fear on the freeway is cutting lanes when somebody else is trying to get into the same lane from the 3rd lane. its a real pain to not have those side blinkers on every car.

[UCF3]

I think the side markers are very important. I've been tempted to change lanes without know if the guy next to me wants to do the same; which is why I converted the corner lights to blinkers, and added another set of side markers.

On our busy highways, and since I change lanes so often, it kind-off prevents others from coming into my lane.

I'm sick of my 94LS. I'm probably going to change years or cars altogther in the near future. Also need to get out of Premium Fuel cars; it's costing me a freakin fortune.

Lexuus:

You can't close your windows from the FOB anymore? That doesn't sound right. Was it programmed?

[phil390]

I traded my 2000 LS 400 for the new LS 460 and have had it for 11 days and ~350 miles. From the first I enjoyed major improvements in handling and acceleration, especially rolling acceleration. Also, the comfort of both front and rear seats is greatly improved. And, the Mark Levinson sound system with the hard disk, the navigation system, the back up camera and the park assist sonar plus a few other gee gaws are worthy additions. In this latter camp, I particularly enjoy the keyless start feature and the automatic electronic parking brake/hold feature -- what a truly great idea this brake is! The styling is attractive to me and has drawn several positive comments. I do not find the 8 speed transmission to be either a significant plus, or minus, to this point -- it is like other Lexus trannies -- smooth and seamless. Overall, the LS 460 is not quite so smooth riding as the LS 400 and I believe may not be quite as quiet, altho differences, if any, are very slight.

I cannot adequately compare the LS460 with the LS 430 as I have only ridden in the LS 430 and never driven

it. However, the LS 460 rear seat is definitley more comfortable and roomy for passengers.

To this point, I am pleased with what I see as generally significant improvements and enhancements when compared to the LS 400 I have driven for 7 years. We also have an SC 430 which we love.

I agree with most of the above.

I traded my LS 430 for the 460 and I see a lot of differences primarily in the electronics and luxury features.

But it looks and feels very solid, quiet, but also drives "bigger".

I have a Mercedes conv and Jag conv and Yukon but the 460 quickly became my daily driver.

Phil390

[erosx]

I own a 2004 Lexus LS430 with less than 20K miles on it and I am considerting getting a 07 LS460. The dealers where I live are sticking pretty close to MSRP. Is it different where you live?

[SW03ES]

Pretty close to MSRP here too.

[JAM123]

Pretty much MSRP. Our local dealer has a waiting list of 50+. I had to wait a little over three months.

[birdieman]

I could have had a LS430 with 200 miles & almost choose it but I went for the 460 with newer styling & more electronics that I love especially the hard drive radio. I still don't know what the headlamp washers do.

[SW03ES]

Wash the headlamps ;)

[Rx330driver]

push button

water pressure jets pop out of bumper in front

sprays water on headlights

p.s. headlights have to be on for this to work

[SW03ES]

I think he means he doesn't find them effective ;)

[Rx330driver]

its more effective if you lived in snowy areas and snow has piled up over them. I think they are heated?

[patcom]

Let me say up front I love my LS430. I came from Mercedes and BMW's and I love the quality, reliability, and comfort of my LS430. So I went and test drove the new LS460. Drove it about 15 miles, on streets, country roads, and interstate highway. It is a wonderful car and drove great...absolutely no complaints...........but............I did not see that great of a difference between the LS460 and my LS430. I expected the steering feel to be much improved after talking with the salesman, but I could not detect any significant difference. Power was greater, the 8-speed transmission shifted more often, but frankly, I think I prefer my LS430. I would be interested to hear the impressions of you who currently own an LS430, and have driven the new LS460. What differences did you notice, and if you liked it better, why?

Not exactly a reply to to your question but I feel the same way about the difference between my 2000 LS400 and my 2006 LS430.To me the handling and steering are better in the 2000 LS400 than the newer LS 430.I blame it on the 18" tires.To me it is a downgrade in quality.

[PEG460]

Not knowing any better, I thought the 460's truck was cavernous!

Better look again....it is significantly smaller.

Why would I look again. I own it and it is still cavernous!

I have a 2006 Tundra if I need to carry all. The LS460 truck size is perceived differently by each person. I could not be more happy and it held my luggage for two without a problem. Some, maybe need to rethink what they are putting in their suitcase!

I have a 2006 LS460. The trunk holds 4 sets of golf clubs so three of my buddies and I can head to the golf course in style and comfort. It is a great car.

[marday]

Let me say up front I love my LS430. I came from Mercedes and BMW's and I love the quality, reliability, and comfort of my LS430. So I went and test drove the new LS460. Drove it about 15 miles, on streets, country roads, and interstate highway. It is a wonderful car and drove great...absolutely no complaints...........but............I did not see that great of a difference between the LS460 and my LS430. I expected the steering feel to be much improved after talking with the salesman, but I could not detect any significant difference. Power was greater, the 8-speed transmission shifted more often, but frankly, I think I prefer my LS430. I would be interested to hear the impressions of you who currently own an LS430, and have driven the new LS460. What differences did you notice, and if you liked it better, why?

After driving the LS460 I felt exactly the same as you. I like my '04 LS430 just as well. When they say it has 100 more hp. I dont know where those horses are. Then, when they wanted list for their car and offered me $2000 less than Carmax would give me for mine, I walked. And, they could care less. This is the 9th Lexus I have bought from this dealer. Customer loyalty means nothing to them.

M. Day

Orlando, Fl

[SW03ES]

If they let you walk then the deal didn't make financial sense to them. Its business, customer loyalty is great but the car is a commodity and its one they can sell in your particular market for list price, so there it is. Why should they sell it to you for less?

As to the older car still being impressive after driving the new one, I agree thats one of the great things about Lexus vehicles. Its more a statement of how well made they are and how well they age than it is anything positive or negative about the new model. I like the LS460 better than the 04-06 LS430, but if I had that generation 430 I wouldn't trade it on a 460 either. Now if I had an 01-03 maybe...

[audvid]

Let me say up front I love my LS430. I came from Mercedes and BMW's and I love the quality, reliability, and comfort of my LS430. So I went and test drove the new LS460. Drove it about 15 miles, on streets, country roads, and interstate highway. It is a wonderful car and drove great...absolutely no complaints...........but............I did not see that great of a difference between the LS460 and my LS430. I expected the steering feel to be much improved after talking with the salesman, but I could not detect any significant difference. Power was greater, the 8-speed transmission shifted more often, but frankly, I think I prefer my LS430. I would be interested to hear the impressions of you who currently own an LS430, and have driven the new LS460. What differences did you notice, and if you liked it better, why?

I am writing my detailed experience so that you can appropriately weigh in my comments and put them in contex.

I have owned 5 LS cars - 90, 95, 98, 2001, 2007. The 90 was in a league of its own - far ahead of its competition - I put 250,000 miles on it and kept it for 9 years or so. I did not like the 95 better (less solid than 90). Transmission was apparently made lighter. There was nothing wrong with a 95 but it was really the same (less?) car. The 98 was quite an improvement over the 95 - quicker too. My first Nav and it worked fine. The 2001 was really not a major improvement. At the same time period, I had owned a Merc s class AMG. The 430 was quicker in city and convenient to drive. the s class was felt a bit heavy in city driving but was simply superb on the highway. the ls 430 was simply not in the same league beyond 75 mph. But the merc engine and transmission felt a lot less refined than the lexus'.

Recently, I test drove the S550. It felt more like my old ls 430 (quiet and a slightly floaty ride! - it almost felt that merc was following lexus!).

I did test drive the standard 460L but I really don't remember how it felt. Mine is the touring/sport version - with 19" tires, bigger brakes, air suspension. My 95 had air suspension but I really did not find it to be superior. My 98 and 2001 did not have air suspension. But this 2007's air suspension is clearly superior to my 95's.

I do agree with you that the steering feel is really not too different from previous cars (actually even the 90 felt pretty much the same). If you really want the best steering feel - you should drive Audi A8! Between LS 460, S550 and A8, The A8 has the best steering feel and fun factor of driving. I was less impressed with S500 - Obviously it too is quite good of course - I preferred my ls 460.

Besides the steering feel, the 460L is, in my opinion, a clearly desirable car and the 430 should be a quick trade in. Considering your preference for steering feel, you should buy the sport/touring version (available by special order) and use it in sport setting. Granted, it would not drive like an A8 or a 750il. Assuming that monetary factor is not an issue, I would encourage you to trade in your 430 for a sport 460L. You will be quite pleased. Perhaps your local dealer has a sport version demo? They are not very common. In fact, my local dealer asked me to do him a favor and let one of his customers drive it (which I obliged and that person immediately ordered the sport package). There is one issue with the touring version you have to understand - its tires and brakes will have half the life of the normal car. I do not know whether it stops shorter or better but I am pleased. I really don't mind changing the tires/brakes. After all, lexus is low maintenance anyway!

[needone]

Let me say up front I love my LS430. I came from Mercedes and BMW's and I love the quality, reliability, and comfort of my LS430. So I went and test drove the new LS460. Drove it about 15 miles, on streets, country roads, and interstate highway. It is a wonderful car and drove great...absolutely no complaints...........but............I did not see that great of a difference between the LS460 and my LS430. I expected the steering feel to be much improved after talking with the salesman, but I could not detect any significant difference. Power was greater, the 8-speed transmission shifted more often, but frankly, I think I prefer my LS430. I would be interested to hear the impressions of you who currently own an LS430, and have driven the new LS460. What differences did you notice, and if you liked it better, why?

I just lost the reply I was editing on you subject. I can't go through it again at this time, but I'll sum it up. DON'T DO IT!

[needone]

i mean lexus is becoming so into safety precautions that we cant even roll up the windows from our key fobs when the car is off, or control the nav in motion. so i really wonder what the reasoning is behind no side signals for the US.

You are right! The reason is $$$$$$$$$$ Lexus is starting to harvest their reputation by "reengineering" the car for marketability, not customer satisfaction.