Drove An Infiniti M35

[SW03ES]

Well I had some spare time on my way home from the office this evening, so I stopped off at an Infiniti dealer (the only one in pretty much the whole area) and spent some time with the M35 and even took it for a spin. I thought I'd post my thoughts on it vs the ES350, since it was the last new Lexus model I drove that I think could possibly be cross shopped with an M35.

Overview

First of all let me say I was really impressed with the M35. I went in expecting to see some small quality issues like my parents have in their FX35, but I was pleasantly suprised.

Exterior

The styling has grown on me, but its still not the most gorgeous car I've ever seen. The rear lights are unique, but somewhat strange (no moreso than the headlights on my ES are). One car I saw had some aftermarket altezza type rear tails that actually blended into the car better I thought. I like the grille and the headlights, the contrast between chrome and black chrome in the grill is definately attractive, as is the satin silver trim on the trunklid. I also like the way the chrome is used framing the door handles instead of the entire door handle being chrome like on the ES. The ES350 and the GS are undoubtedly the better looking car, but the M is definately less "ordinary" since I'm starting to see ES350s everywhere. I love the Diamond Graphite color, its such a nice alternative to ordinary silver. I definately would get it if I were to buy an M.

Interior/features

This I believe is the absolute strong suit of the car. The interior of this car is so much classier than either the ES350 or the new GS. There's plenty of wood trim contrasting with real alluminum accents, and the wood trim looks great with the matte coating. I definately would miss the wood/leather steering wheel, although I hear you can order one from Japan for the M for about $800 which isn't bad. The control layout is a little different with that "piano style" dash but all the controls fall easily into your hand, and almost anything you'd want to do you can do from the steering wheel anyways. Speaking od the steering wheel, I MUCH Prefer the feeling of a 4 spoke wheel to the 2 spoke wheels found on Lexus vehicles nowadays. Instruments are great, 4 individual pods with equally sized and side by side speedo and tach (with the speedo on the right where it belongs). I liked the amber optitron gauges with the eclipse effect around the rims. A little something different since the white optitron is getting so common. Infiniti's navigation system also seems good, the screen was higher resolution than the one in my car, but not quite as crisp as the screen in the new Lexuses. Its not touch screen, BUT they do have a great voice interface that IMHO works better than Lexus', and you can enter destinations on the fly which negates the annoying issue of the nav being locked out when the car is in motion. Seats are covered in very good quality leather and are firm but very comfortable with heating and cooling functions, carpeting is good but not quite as nice as Lexus, and the headliner had a very nice woven high quality looking fabric. Infiniti also has dual sunvisors, which is a nice touch. The Bose Surround stereo was awesome with the two surround speakers on the shoulders of both front seats, but then again I've never heard the ML in the new GS or the ES350. I also liked the fact that the car has a true bottom hinged gas pedal, something Lexus has only ever provided in the LS.

Radar cruise was a nice feature.

All in all, I'd rather have this interior to the interior in the new GS or ES, but time will tell how well it ages. I was really impressed with the quality, in a lot of ways it seemed more solid than the current interiors from Lexus.

Ride and Drive

This is another area that really impressed me. When I drove the new GS, I was immediately aware of the increased bumpiness and road noise, probably because of the runflats. I was not so immediately aware of it in the M. Yes, its a far tauter and sportier car than my ES or the ES350, but it retains that glass-like smoothness that the ES and LS have that the GS did not. I was impressed by how close it was to the quiet ride of the ES, and didn't find the somewhat stiffer suspension objectionable. There was a little impact harshness and some road noise north of 45MPH, but that could possibly be remedied by adjustments to the air pressure or better tires (Goodyear Eagles are OEM, not a quiet tire).

Throttle response was good, not quite as torquey as the new 350s but adequate. One interesting characteristic was the fact that both the gas and the brake weren't very heavily weighted, causing some jumpiness and making it more difficult to deliver smooth acceleration and smooth stops, probably would adapt to that although I was surprised the brake in my ES was firmer than the brake in a car tuned much more for sport.

My one issue with the ride and drive was the engine note. Like the GS, the exhaust is tuned a lot more towards delivering a throaty engine note. Yes, it sounds good. No, I don't think I'd want to listen to it all the time. The note of my ES and the ES350, even the note on the new GS is more refined and more subtle. Maybe the V8 would be better.

Overall I was very pleased with how the car drove, not quite as refined as a Lexus, but close.

Overall Dissapointments

I think I only really have four gripes.

1. The dealers. Definately nowhere near as nice as the Lexus dealers around here, small and cramped and the service areas aren't nearly as well appointed.

2. No auto wipers. Now, I make a lot of fun of the auto wipers. The truth is now that I'm used to them driving a car without them and having to think about changing the wiper speed is beyond annoying. I would really miss them.

3. No sensors for the smart key on the rear doors. All Lexus vehicles but the IS have sensors so the driver can open any door if they have the smart key in their pocket. Our Prius only has the sensors on the front doors, and so does the M. This is terribly annoying for me because all the doors don't unlock when you open one, and the first thing I do when I walk up to the car is open the left rear passenger door and hang up my suit jacket. I'd have to either open the drivers door and then unlock all the doors, or use the keyfob making the smart entry useless.

4. The lane departure warning system must be defeated EVERY time you restart the car. Stupid.

All in all I was pleased, next time I trade cars I will definately look at the M35.

[blake918]

Nice write-up! What did you think of the driver's leg/head room (did you have the seat all the way back?)?...you know I have to ask! ;) I really LOVE the floor mounted gas pedal in my LS, that's great that they put it in the M!

[nc211]

I agree about the floor mounted gas pedal. I love it, and have a tough time adjusting to the pedals that are not floor mounting. I alway MASH the other ones down too quickly, which usually puts my coffee in my lap. I like the M series too, A LOT. I would honestly have to say that I would probably buy one of those over the GS. They just look "meatier" to me. The reviews I've read on them all say they're about the most perfect car in their category. I love the interior. My only concern is with how well they'll age...particulary in the ride & engine noise category. The reason why I say this is because when I got my new Maxima back in 01', the ride was amazingly quiet and smooth, yet tight. The engine was whisper quiet too. But 20k miles later, it wasn't like that anymore. A lot more road noise, wind noise and rougher ride. Plus engine noise into the cabin was a lot more pronounced. I put new tires on it, and it helped about 50%, but you could tell the suspension had settled in, and the result was a louder and harsher ride. I put synthetic oil in it, and it helped, but still, you could tell the trend was to continue. That's the main reason I got rid of it. I took great care of that car, didn't beat on it at all. Maybe Infiniti uses better mounts, which I would guess to be true. I do know those QX4's are AWESOME suv's "quiet, smooth, fast," and would be my only pick if I ever bought one...well...that and a 99' Tahoe, but need a raise to maintain that one.

[anthonyiez]

i have a friend who bought a m45 sport a few months ago and said it was hands down better than the new gs 430.

[RFeldes]

I'm not sure about the depreciation on an Infiniti compared to Lexus...Any feedback..Plus I feel a Lexus is a Lexus and an Infiniti is maybe a step below in public perception ...That should give you guys a topic..lol

[nc211]

Oh lord...had to go there...might as well ask if the infiniti will run better on full synthetic oil. Hahahaa.... Actually, very good point on the depreciation, totally didn't even think about that.

I think I read somewhere that the French are tied in with Infiniti now, and they played a big part in the M's design. SWO, was that you that told me that? I can't remember...that brain cell died off a long time ago...like last Saturday night..I think.

[blake918]

Plus I feel a Lexus is a Lexus and an Infiniti is maybe a step below in public perception

Their's no doubt about that one--I think the same can be said for Acura as well! I think Mercedes and BMW are perceived better than Lexus though. All of that aside, I think Infiniti sure is making a more attractive line up...

[indiasfinest]

infiniti doesnt quite hold the same rep when as lexus generally, but the M45 does look more sporty to me. i loved the cars interior, its a nice car but it is pretty expensive, loaded around 60K...

[SW03ES]

Nice write-up! What did you think of the driver's leg/head room

It seemed good, it has a high roofline and the track seemed long.

My only concern is with how well they'll age...particulary in the ride & engine noise category.

I have that concern too, my Mom's FX35 though is 3 now and has like 45k miles and it still rides great with no rattles, the interior plastics are a little cheap in places but they appear much better in the M. There's an agent in my office that has a 91 Q45, and its in just as good conditon as any 91 LS400 would be. Still gives me pause though.

I'm not sure about the depreciation on an Infiniti compared to Lexus...Any feedback..Plus I feel a Lexus is a Lexus and an Infiniti is maybe a step below in public perception

Depreciation is not as good as Lexus across the model line, but as they build more attractive vehicles (the FX, the G and the M) that may change. I know they use better residuals in their leases than Lexus making them much cheaper to lease ($150 or so a month), but thats just subsidized leases.

To buy and keep for a long time, it'd have to be a Lexus. To lease for 3 years though and give it back, who knows...

As for public perception I agree, but again that may change too as they build more attractive vehicles. I think Infiniti is precieved at least as a step above Acura. Lexus definately has the brand prestige though.

I think Mercedes and BMW are perceived better than Lexus though.

I think that depends who you talk to. I've noticed that "Lexus" has effectively worked its way into the lexicon as being a symbol for affluence and quality. You hear things like "The Lexus of this, the Lexus of that" much like you used to hear Cadillac referred to (in fact Websters dictionary defined Cadillac as something that is the worlds best). I hear "This is the Lexus of office chairs" more than I hear "This is the Mercedes of office chairs". Who knows why.

Among car enthusiasts I think BMW and Mercedes are definately held in higher regard, but among the common public I'm not so sure.

its a nice car but it is pretty expensive, loaded around 60K...

$58,800 fully loaded M45 Sport, but thats in line with a GS430, and a LOT less than a BMW 5 or Benz E.

[RFeldes]

Steve is right on all points, in my opinion...I have noticed a lot more Lexus vehicles in my town compared to a few years ago..Less MB's and about the same Bimmers..a lot of 400's, 300 series, SUV's and an appreciable amount of 430's. Do any of you see that trend in your areas?

[SW03ES]

Absolutely.

[93LSOwner]

Steve is right on all points, in my opinion...I have noticed a lot more Lexus vehicles in my town compared to a few years ago..Less MB's and about the same Bimmers..a lot of 400's, 300 series, SUV's and an appreciable amount of 430's. Do any of you see that trend in your areas?

Same here at Cary, Raleigh and Greensboro, NC.

[Rx330driver]

"This is the Lexus of office chairs"

i dont think ive heard that before :P

i wont lie, a big decision in my car purchases have to do with brand image. I definately think that lexus is above cadilac (which i have no idea why people still think its as prestigious), acura, infiniti, and all the other (i think thats it tho) models out there. The next ones to beat our bmws and mercs. Its going to be hard though, people who love mercs always use that "heritage" example and bmw enthusiasts always use the "soul" example.

lexus just needs a good sports car and a good luxury sedan (like the Ls460) to shut those people up one and for all.

that car will officially be the "lexus" of all cars.

i get to see a lot of nice luxury cars out here. there is about a good amount of each of those prestigious car brands and also of course the low ended ones. I even saw a Maybach next to a bentley continental on the street the other day...while i was sitting in my RX, a little out of place actually. lol

to be honest, if i had the money, i would probably spring for mercedes' cars, though its a hard call. Ive learned to love lexus after just three models, but ive been a long time fan of mercs.

[nc211]

Steve is right on all points, in my opinion...I have noticed a lot more Lexus vehicles in my town compared to a few years ago..Less MB's and about the same Bimmers..a lot of 400's, 300 series, SUV's and an appreciable amount of 430's. Do any of you see that trend in your areas?

Same here at Cary, Raleigh and Greensboro, NC.

I think the word is out that a used LS400 is better than most new cars in general, and for way less money. I've seen plenty around here too, especially the gen 1 models, and the gen 2. Not too many gen 2.5's though. I saw a sweet gen 2 in white yesterday. I really like these cars in white! Thought I heard "ebony and ivory" playing in the heavens as I passed him. I think I've seen 93LS sitting in traffic on the I540 to I40 merge?

[SW03ES]

Thats another thing I forgot to add. Getting back in my ES from driving the M35 I again was impressed by the fact that at getting close to 80k now its just as solid and drives just as well as an M35 with 50 miles on it.

All these cars are built to last.

[LexKid630]

I haven't driven the Infiniti, but i have the Es350. To be honest i don't like it I had it this week as a loaner and was glad to give it back. The only things i actually liked about it was the power and the headlights' wide viewing area (compared to the rx300)...

I don't know where Lexus is going where their new models, but i don't like it!

[dcfish]

I haven't driven the Infiniti, but i have the Es350. To be honest i don't like it I had it this week as a loaner and was glad to give it back. The only things i actually liked about it was the power and the headlights' wide viewing area (compared to the rx300)...

I don't know where Lexus is going where their new models, but i don't like it!

LexKid630, I agree with you on the new models that lexus has. In my opinion they are losing there independant "LOOK" and becoming more like middle of the road styling. Lexus, Nissan, BMW, Even Huyundia are all sharing in a similar "LOOK" Not for me.:whistles:

Although I wouldn't kick any one of them out of my driveway.

[LexKid630]

The quality of the interior materials is CRAP on the new ES, IS and GS. I don't like the interior color combo's (the black dash with the "yellow/tan" leather, black with gray leather, or black with the black leather) or the "look" of the center controls etc. Everything just looks, and feels cheap IMO. The wood is real though, i will give them that...

The windows are too thin and small compared to the earlier models, and the back is raised too much (hard to see out of the back). I do like the LED's for the interior and license plate lights though; makes lighting brighter.

The one thing that stood out for me in the ES350 was the power; I couldn't believe it! also the headlights seem to illuminate the road a bit better as well, along with a much wider angle which i really did like.

Other than that, the Es350 doesn't strike me as anything "lexus"... I would never buy one!

The only models left that seem to have some quality are the Rx350 (i'm buying one in the next few weeks), the Gx470 and the Lx470. And i haven't been in the new LS, nor do i really want to! I'm afraid to...

[indiasfinest]

the only reason (IMO) that lexus is behind BMW and mercedes is because lexus stops at quality and does not provide performance,

IE: bmw has M and mercedes has AMG...lexus has...the SC?

[SW03ES]

Lex-

How could you not at least like the way the new ES drives. It drives very similarly to the old one, just a little smoother and a little quieter.

As for the interior materials, they are using some sort of new vinyl material on the dash that is weird, its got that sheen to it and the grain looks unnatural. The good thing is, from the photos I've seen, the new LS doesn't use that vinyl.

I love everything about the new ES except for the interior. I drove an IS and loved it too, although its not my kind of car (nobody can say that interior isn't an improvement over the IS300). I don't care for the GS, but then I've never cared for the GS...

To say the cars have no quality though is an obvious overstatement. They're still extremely high quality vehicles, they're just different.

My Lexus salesman made a comment to me that they might be able to do a Modern Luxury LS430 for $750 a month yesterday...hmm...

[SW03ES]

the only reason (IMO) that lexus is behind BMW and mercedes is because lexus stops at quality and does not provide performance,

IE: bmw has M and mercedes has AMG...lexus has...the SC?

Remember though, Lexus outsells BMW and Mercedes.

As far as performance, have you driven the IS350? Or the GS350? Or the ES350? May have been the case in the past that Lexus was less concerned about performance, but not nowadays.

[Rx330driver]

they certainly try to make some cars more sport oriented...but they always seem to disapoint the car mags and the testers. More power doesnt always mean more sporty. Lexus so far does own the mercs and bmws on cost and what they price will bring to the table as for as HP wise, but the reality is that lexus doesnt put much thought into driving dynamics, weight distribution, and handling like bmw.

i actually like the IS and the GS and the ES, lol :) i think its funny how you dont like them but it is your opinion. the ES interior is a bit weird, but you must have like the exterior! im just hoping that the new LS can show the world that lexus can build a car worth standing next to the S class

[LexKid630]

Ok, i will admit it drives pretty well and the handling around corners is excellent. It's VERY quiet, even on the highway, which i liked.

The sound system isn't that good though, compared to the Rx300. I'd have to say the Rx300's sound is better than the Ls as well! Just my opinion.

And as for exterior looks, (i didn't wanna say anything, but) i don't like it... The rear appears a bit too "high" (like the new GS) and the doors look too tall (because there isn't that strip half way...you know what i'm talking about...). I just don't like it I do like the front headlights though; i LOVE the projector units!!

I just didn't feel comfortable in it when i had it. Usually when i get into a Lexus i can usually say to myself, "This is a Lexus". -Didn't get that feeling in the new ES.

I REALLY hope this isn't the new "Lexus". I hope the new LS is better.

[indiasfinest]

the is350, GS350, or ES350 come nothing close to the M or AMG

IS350 0-60 time- ~6 seconds

~60<M3 or AM

the catch: there is an insane amount of price difference, but lexus is losing their customers who want this performance and have the money

as well as street cred :D

[Rx330driver]

The sound system isn't that good though, compared to the Rx300. I'd have to say the Rx300's sound is better than the Ls as well

i find it interesting you say this. my father also thinks that the rx300's sound system is better than the RX330 i swtiched to, even though there are more speakers.