Course Selection In High School

[indiasfinest]

well in our high school we have this thing called LEAP, which combines PAP world history and PAP english and it makes a year long course, its harder than selecting JUST PAP world history and PAP english, because it has some unique material that these class don;t have, you get the same grade multiplier (1.2). why take this class. (i already did, now im regretting it) , it isnt something you can really put on your college application, so why? thanks

[steviej]

It would help if you spelled out L E A P and P A P.

I am assuming the A P part is "advanced placement" ?

steviej

[93LSOwner]

well in our high school we have this thing called LEAP, which combines PAP world history and PAP english and it makes a year long course, its harder than selecting JUST PAP world history and PAP english, because it has some unique material that these class don;t have, you get the same grade multiplier (1.2). why take this class. (i already did, now im regretting it) , it isnt something you can really put on your college application, so why? thanks

Okay bud. Realistically you are not going to find what you are looking for from the information you have provided. Every state is different. As steviej stated tell what those abbreviations stand for and even touch on the GPA multiplier. Have you encountered this site before: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/ It has A LOT of information, especially in those discussion/forums. I found it while in college and not before!

[indiasfinest]

even i dont know what LEAP stands for ,but PAP stands for pre-advance placement, (i think). i will take a look at the site, thanks

[SW03ES]

Its been a long time since most of us were in high school LOL. It hasn't been all THAT long for me, and I don't even know what those things mean, other than AP.

When I was in high school there were APs and honors courses, but no PAP or LEAP or anything like that.

My suggestion overall would be to push yourself, but don't substitute your ability to get good grades for a higher level course.

[Rx330driver]

Its been a long time since most of us were in high school LOL. It hasn't been all THAT long for me, and I don't even know what those things mean, other than AP.

When I was in high school there were APs and honors courses, but no PAP or LEAP or anything like that.

me neither, i have a nephew who is a senior this year, and in california, there is only honors and AP classes, none of all that mumbo jumbo. I heard for AP class at least that you can score a little lower with a more advanced class and it will still benefit you. ask your college counselor?

My suggestion overall would be to push yourself, but don't substitute your ability to get good grades for a higher level course.

[Toysrme]

Im going to be very, very honest with you. Your corse selection in highschool is meanlingless. Unless you simply want the challange. Don't enroll in honors type classes. Be sure that if your intended college corses have higher math (Calc etc., and there is a lot that requires cal that you wouldn't think does) to really pay attention with ALG II, and take an intro to cal. corse in highschool.

I've got news for you. No college you could possible want to go to cares what the hell you take in highschool! They don't care who you had, how hard it was, nor about any multipliers.

Your *first* day, or two of college orientation, they're going to know all about you they want to know. You'll spend that time taking THEIR apltitude tests. Math, Engrish, Computers any foriegn languages you wish to study, to which point you'll be placed in the level you should be at.

They simply don't give a flying *u** about what you did in highschool & that's the complete truth to it. All you need is descent grades (which will be easier to get high grades in normal classes), and good exit/sat/act/state exam testing - whatever your school system uses.

[LexKid630]

I'm not even gonna say anything about the last response :whistles:

Taking higher level courses in high school IS a good idea.

It's even better when you pass an AP exam (if those classes are available) & get college credits; this means you may not need to take the classes (which will be much harder) in college ;)

Taking "honors" classes is also a good idea if you're capable of getting either an A or B. Getting a B in an honors class is better than getting an A in a secondary "college prep" level course. This is because of the weight the grade has on your GPA. For example, getting an 85 in a secondary level class "looks" about the same as getting an 80 in an honors class. When colleges see that you were taking honors level classes, they know who they're dealing with. Colleges know who's just "getting by" and who's putting the extra effort in. But remember, many schools use a different GPA multiplier, so you'd really need to do the math :o

I have two kids in college, and one daughter going to be a junior in high school in September; i have a lot of experience on the subject.

It also depends on what you want to do in college, and which college you choose to go to. If you want to go to a challenging college, you will need the title and experience of taking "honors" classes to compete with other students and to get better grades in college. If you want to go to a "no name" college, it doesn't really matter LOL

Lets say you're a college choosing students; you have two students to choose from, both have the same GPA, both took the same "classes" but one of them took them at the advanced level! Who are you gonna choose? The student who challenged themself, or the one who "got by" ?

Plus, the amt. of information & the general atmosphere in honors classes is much more similar to what you will see in college classes. Honors classes are also run more vigorously than in lower level classes; very similar to what you will see in college!

I took all of the "honors" level classes (back then it was either level 1 (like honors), level 2, or level 3 (like an applied class) when i was in high school. In my junior year I took Bio 2 "level 1" and fell in love with the subject. I also took every other honors bio & chem class available (actually there were only three...).

At the beginning of my senior year in high school it was clear that i wanted to go into the field of biology & or chemistry. I applied to 5 "challenging" colleges & got accepted to all but two. I decided to go to Providence College (my first choice b/c of location) as a bio major. I found that the level of difficulty in the college bio courses was similar to the "level 1" classes i had taken in high school! It made the classes much easier :)

After 6 years at Providence College i then went to medical school at Boston College. Again, the classes were EXTREMELY hard, but i made out very well thanks to the experience i had learned in high school.

From there i joined my brother in law and went into the medical field as a physician specializing in general surgery. It wasn't until a few years ago that i went back to college to get my degree in the chemistry/pharmacy field. I am currently working for a pharmaceutical company in MA.

Bottom line, taking "honors" level & AP courses in high school is a great idea to get you ready for college. both my son & first daughter took the honors level courses in high school, which gave them the background they needed to get into & make it through the colleges they are currently in. My son is in Med School at Miami University and my daughter is at Fairfield University (in CT) as a business major.

As i stated before, my second daughter is going to be a junior in high school next year, and she's NOT in the honors track; she's on what's called the "college prep" track, or on the "level 2" level. This is what the "average" student takes. My wife and i have told her that she is perfectly capable of taking the honors level classes (which she is), but she insists on staying in this level. I GUARANTEE this is because all of her friends are in these classes We've given up trying to talk her out of it... I just hope it doesn't come back to bite her in college when she is introduced to the new level of work

I would recommend talking to your guidance counselor to discuss what you want to do. Many of these schools are different and the classes are as well. They should be able to tell you what is best for you. But as far as i can tell, you're one smart kid! You definetly belong in the honors track. <_<

In my opinion, it's best to take the honors level courses if you can manage to receive an A or B in them. At times you may feel as if the work load is too much, but when you get into college you'll be greatful you had a chance to see what the college classes are like before you "hit" college for the first time.

Good luck with your decision! :)

[Grandpa]

Errr... first two days of orientation are tests?!?!?! I just took tests to get placed in my freshman classes; why would I take more tests the first day?

[steviej]

I don't remember any test on my first few days or even at orientation. Mind you that was 24 years ago.

steviej

[SW03ES]

I heard for AP class at least that you can score a little lower with a more advanced class and it will still benefit you. ask your college counselor?

Yes, in my school district honors and AP courses were weighted differently than ordinary courses, instead of A=4.0 and B=3.0 etc, A=5.0 and B = 4.0 to encourage people to take a chance on the more difficult courses. Our valedictorian had like a 4.6 GPA.

As for Toysrme's advice, in a lot of ways he's right. Don't stress over this really, pick classes you'll enjoy, try some new things, keep your grades up and you'll get into a great college. College is the time to buckle down if you're going to be going on to higher education. AP courses are nice because you can apply the credit towards college and get ahead, but theres more to college than the courses you take and the grades you earn.

SO, if you want to push yourself thats great, try out some AP and honors level courses. Don't however give up on having a life because of it. The things you learn about LIFE in highschool and college are just as important as the peices of paper you're going to wind up with when you're done.

Education is very important, but it isn't the be all and end all of your life. In my experience a lot of people wind up missing out on their life because of their drive to maximize the difficulty of everything they do in school, especially people from other countries.

[indiasfinest]

thats some really good advice, thanks

[GLM]

True you can get college credit in some AP classes?

[93LSOwner]

well in our high school we have this thing called LEAP, which combines PAP world history and PAP english and it makes a year long course

Sorry India, I completely forgot about the combining of AP History and AP English. They started this on the class before me so I took them as separate courses, plus our school combined AP English with AP ‘US’ History.

Okay, the history AP tests have a lot of essays along with multiple choice answers. Anyone can do those multiple choice, but boy are those essays tough. By combining the two classes you learn how to write essays for the history courses because students loose majority of points from the essay questions. There is a little twist to writing those essays. You will find that in AP biology as well. So overall the most dreadful part of AP tests is the free response section, unless you have mastered the technique of writing a well thought-out essay in class, this is where the combination comes in.

In college: All of your exams in the history courses will be essay. You will be worried more about time running out than your hands cramping up (this is where MS word comes in…lol).

If you are a biology/science major you will have to take two courses of General biology and two of General Chemistry. If you score 4 and above on the AP biology & Chemistry test, you will not have to take them in college. Now, that’s 4 classes (these are 4 credit hour classes in just about all colleges) and all four have labs with them (these labs meet once a week for 3-4 hours) they also include lab reports, lap practicals, and quizzes. Aside from the classes, labs are the worst part of these courses, and if you get a strict go by the book TA (teacher’s assistant, these labs are taught by grad students)…….you can imagine. So these are 4 courses each count as 4 credit hours that’s a total of 16 credits = ONE WHOLE semester.

We are still in college now if you are still with me. No matter what your major is you will be required to take English 101 (the intro English). Once again if you pass the AP test no more English 101. In that course you will submit the assigned essays to your professor through out the semester (almost certainly a total of around 4-5) and that my friend is your grade (somewhat will be on attendance depending on the professor).

If you fail the AP test, that is okay. Not the end of the world. Those AP course let alone the AP test will most certainly by A LOT harder than the actual equivalent course in college. By the way, this is not a reason for not trying your best.

As far as honors courses are concerned. I don’t even know why they call them honors. Most teachers just use the same test they use for college prep. Even if they don’t I’m telling you right now honors is certainly not a huge deal in academics as of now.

it isnt something you can really put on your college application, so why?

This will not show up on your high school transcript? I don’t know the answer to that one. But, college applications include more than just your name and address. They will have 3 or more essays, in which you can incorporate that class and experience.

When I took AP classes in high school, there was no doubt in my mind I was going to do badly in college. I was only taking 2/semester in high school and in my mind college equaled 4-5 AP classes/semester. Because of those hard AP courses, college seemed easy. The AP classes REALY prepared me for college. Also every AP teacher in my fairly small high school (student body of 800) loved teaching and had been teaching there for a long time.

I remember you talking about Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT] which is ranked #7 National University in the U.S. taking all honors class is not even going to come close to you even being on the “maybe” list of applicants. Unless you have a near perfect score on the SATs.

My high school had GPA points as:

AP: A-6 B-5 C-4…..

Honors: A-5 B-4 C-3…..

College Prep: A-4 B-3 C-2…..

For my class of 04, the valedictorian’s GPA was 5.3x. Mine was 4.5 and I was 18 out of 153!

Do what you think is the best for you. By the way India, do you know or have an idea of what you want to do in life?

Overall, I can’t agree more with what LexKid630 has said above.

No college you could possible want to go to cares what the hell you take in highschool!

Toysrme, my friend you need to join us in the academic year of 06-07!

[Grandpa]

I took about 6 AP classes in my high school career(which ended this year) and the rigor of each class ranged from teacher to teacher. I would HIGHLY recommend taking AP classes + Honor classes because colleges DO look at the rigor of your secondary education. For instance, when I applied to UCLA + Berkeley, they asked me what classes I took all 4 years, and if they were either IB, AP, or Honor courses. Also, I disagree with 93LS on the fact that most students lose points on the essays. The multiple choice is actually the hardest part of the exam and depending on which test, it either accounts for more or equal to your essay. The essay portion is where I believe you have the biggest chance of making points because you do not get penalized for being wrong or going stray. Mention anything and everything that relates to the topic. This year when I took the U.S. History exam, I thought I may have been in trouble with one of the essay questions since I felt like I didn't mention too much about how the 1920's era in idiology differed from that of the 1900s-20s but I still ended up with a 5. Also, when preparing for the AP exam, it is a great idea to go buy a Cliff's Notes AP Review book or something along that line (a basic review of what will be on the exam). Lastly, STUDY HARD FOR YOUR ACT/SAT BECAUSE THEY ARE A LARGE DETERMINING FACTOR IN ACCEPTANCE/REJECTION, ALONG WITH RECOMMENDATIONS AND ESSAYS!!!

[indiasfinest]

thanks for the advice everyone

[blake918]

By the way India, do you know or have an idea of what you want to do in life?

This should have been asked at the very begining because your career choice is super, super important in this matter. Are you looking to get on the team that is going to cure a form of cancer or do you want to work with computers? Each of those jobs are important, but I'll stick my neck out and say that the doctors are going to benefit more from having AP classes since med schools probably require them in not so many words....errr, maybe not require them, but it'll be a fun question to try and dodge during your interview! LOL

My $.02? It's what Toys and Steve said. ;) Bill Gates didn't finish college, so find something you love and go after it because education isn't everything (it's extremely important, but it's not everything.)!

[indiasfinest]

o, srry i guess i didnt read that question. yah i want to do engineering and buisness

[SW03ES]

Why?

[indiasfinest]

why not? i love the computer and to design things, and buisness has always been something i've wanted to do. managing something is always appealing to me.

[SW03ES]

You should take the time to find something you really want to do.

[Toysrme]

This may confuse some people. So this is just a pre-emptive explaination for anyone that may not follow.

In this post, when I say college... I don't mean a university.

A university is a great big assortment of colleges.

A college are the individual schools/department at a university. Engineering, arts & science, biz, communications, etc...

o, srry i guess i didnt read that question. yah i want to do engineering and buisness

why not? i love the computer and to design things, and buisness has always been something i've wanted to do. managing something is always appealing to me.

Welp, then here's the best f'ing advice anyone on here can give you. If you don't like math... Serious, high end math... You do not need to take your major through an engineering college. And at most universities, all the major outright "computer science" degrees come from the engineering college. Every descent engineering college is going to cram atleast cal-III in your throat.

Many times, the "compter science / engineering / buisness" type majors/minors will be offered at more than one college! While the engineering one will kill you in studies, taking the buisness colege's equivilant will be almost infinately less higher end math.

For example. The differance in UA's engineering college's Computer Science degree. It's a very vigorous study. The biz college's MIS (Management Information Systems) degree is less stressful, gives major league biz study's, is *the* highest paid graduating salery of any degree possible in a 4 year span. When I was there 75% of studens going INTO their junior year have interships. While over 90% had job offers going into their last semister. (Great major, with no end to how far up in a campany you can run.)

Keep in mind, the ENG students, while a good college, had a much harder time. Not as broad a range of things they could do to apply their degree, and UA has had the top, or top 5 MIS program in the country for almost 10 years now.

The point I just rambled on to make, is look at ever college at your choosen university to see if they have similar majors that might suit you better! Trust me. This happened to a good friend right after I left UA to start working. (I was an MIS major & took a job offer my first semister of my sophmore year, he was a CS major out of the engineering department) He calls me up randomly while struggling trying to take a theoretical mathmatics corse requires for the CS major. (And he passed cal-III with flying colors his freshman year. seesh! Like I said, you will be VERY well advised to have an introduction to calculous clas sin high school. If you can wing that in HS, you'll kill in college.)

After talking to him for about 10-15 min, he swaps from CS to MIS. He's about to graduate fat & happy LoL!

Anywho.... Don't lock yourself into lines of thinking such as, "I have to take all hard corses to get into a college". It's such total bull! They simply don't care. That can't be said any plainer!?

• Look at the requirements for the universities you want to enter
  
• Meet said requirements without killing yourself, or being so unsociable everyone will hate you & you'll leave college without actually growing as a person! Which is the ENTIRE point to going to school in the first place!!!
  
• Think of what you want to do with your life. What general fields.
  
• Find ALL majors that can give you useful training in what broad / narrow areas you are intersted in
  
• DO NOT have the mindset of "only this college can provide a major for this". Many times this is so incorrect it isn't funny!
  

Finally... Nobody likes a freaking stuck-up. I had a room mate in college that simply couldn't loosen up. I remember him having awesome grades. He was such a prick... Wound up working for me when I was at verizon. He got bounced out of there in two months because he wasn't personable. LoL!

Be sure you enjoy high school man. Learn how to develop relationships with people & how to be outgoing.

You should take the time to find something you really want to do.

Damn straight man. Do what you love! You won't be happy otherwise & trust me... If you wake up hating what you do, you WILL wake up & say *u** this! Time for a change! To which it's blind luck if what you were doing can be applied to what you will be doing!

Guys. Say & think what you want. But the big differance is I have more experiance actually getting into colleges. Today. In the real world. My knolwedge *is* first hand, it *is* extensive, and it *is* bound to be the the most current. That doesn't mean I'm right (I am), but before you just think I'm full of *BLEEP* maybe give some consideration...

No college you could possible want to go to cares what the hell you take in highschool!

Toysrme, my friend you need to join us in the academic year of 06-07!

Without being insulting (Because god knows I took enough of it from monarch) You're telling me, your university adminission office looked at your transcript & said, "Gee, you had Mr. Delotobody for AP Engrish. Wow! That's impressive."

Hell no they didn't son. Quit playing like they did! Like I said... They don't care who you had, they don't care how hard it was. They see their minimum requirements, and place you where you should be.

Getting into a university is freaking easy. You know the answer before the test is given. If you aint meeting that requirement. Your !Removed! isn't going!

Don't even make me bring up how many students at the vast majority of colleges are taking remedial high school level corses their freshman year b/c their majors don't require something they're not very good at. And god forbid we talk about how many are entering on acedemic probation their first semister...

[mburnickas]

you are in two completely different fields. I have a few degrees in Mech Eng and business is way in “left” field.

The first 2 years of any Uni or college are all the same (mostly) same AUC (writing, reading) or junk classes. Need to make the $350 to $400 per credit some how. Then you get into the real stuff that separates the majors, girls to boys.

As someone said above, I hope you like math which is 100% true. When I look back, Cal is easy. It is the eng math, diff eq and discrete math that is a killer...sad part is you will never use it. Business end, you will be lucky to use Cal 1!

But on the flip side I have put my resume online and got many job offers. Eng has many diverse areas and the thinking is all the same. If you have the degree that will want you. Yes, there are more jobs in business, but I know what these people make at my work...Dollar for dollar, I will take eng unless you care about titles. Plus it is easy to outsouce business then eng jobs per say.

Maybe I am “pro” eng but I see all these “managers” at work and know that they make. First day on the job, business people have Manager with no experience. Some are high and some low (pay wise). I also know people that make easy 80 to $140 per hour with no degress in eng.

I do not know if getting into a “university” is easy. Depends on SAT’s if full time. If you are going at nights, maybe. But if that was the case. I would have gotten in Harvard, Yale or MIT if it was that easy.

[indiasfinest]

some good advice, thanks, i know it may not seem like it, but i actually do have quite a bit of friends. and we hang out quite often. lol. but i have a bad feeling that with all this homework, im gonna be screwed and thats gonna have to stop. thanks for the great advice guys, i really appreciate it.

[SW03ES]

I HATE math. Thats why I was a Psychology/Communications major and why I'm in residential and not commercial real estate.

I think You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread...