Heavy Gas Consumption Due To Oil Clumps In Engine

[ChikuLexus]

Hello, I would really appreciate if anyone could offer advice.

I have a 2000 Lexus ES 300, with 100,000 miles on it (actually it will turn 100k in the next couple of days).

Car is excellent in every way and runs very well, but has one major problem. Per Lexus dealer, it has clumps of oil in the engine which is interfering with the valve operation and timing. This is causing it to go about 300 miles on a tank of gas, rather than the 400 it should be going per mileage specs.

Lexus dealer wanted $5500 to fix the problem, which of course is out of question. Firestone says they aren't equipped to handle such a problem. That's where the car has been serviced usually.

I don't know what to do. I love the car, it represents my vision of the perfect car. Nothing flashy or flamboyant about it, isn't loaded to the gills or anything, isn't the fastest or most comfortable car around, but a great little car and everything works together with a beautiful harmony and simple elegance to it.

Can anyone give ideas as to how to address this engine problem?

Thanks.

[pearlwhite97ES]

If you have proof of engine sludging ,and proof you changed oil on a regular schedule,lexus has a replacement recall. Many threads about this. Do a search on this.

[ChikuLexus]

Thank you, that was pretty much the sort of direction I needed to be pointed in. I did the search and it yielded quite a lot of information.

Apparently, this clumping or "sludge" problem is not alien to the ES 300. It appears that I need to be able to provide documentation of regular oil changes dating back several years. I don't know that I can do that, but I am fairly certain my dad took the car regularly to Firestone for oil changes, so I guess I will contact them to see if they can pull it up in their system.

I wish the Lexus dealer in Alabama where I took it for a diagnostic would have told me about this warranty so I could have just spoken to the Firestone right there which was the one who has serviced the car. Then again, those idiots at the Lexus dealer in Alabama are the same people who wanted $700 to put in a new CD changer as the old one apparently wasn't working, until I noticed the CDs needed to be inserted in the changer upside down. Yeah, careless of me not to note that, but downright incompetent of the so-called service department there not to realize that. Or I guess they just wanted to rip me off $700, in which case they should have at least replaced my perfectly fine CD changer with a screwed one.

So, anyway, I guess I have a lead to pursue as far as the sludging. Hopefully, Lexus will do this on warranty, because my car has been serviced well and exhibits the flawless performance to prove that.

[Toysrme]

If the oil is changed, it won't sludge period. I still don't believe in the sludging.

Here's a thread hashing it out

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194378

All Lexus dealers suck, but Tom Williams is a running joke.

Look...

1) Go buy you a gallon of kerosene.

2) Check oil level - add to full mark if not full

3) Measure 1 quart of kerosene out & pour it in the crankcase

4) Crank the engine & let it IDLE for 10min. DO NOT move the car

5) Shut it off

6) Drain the oil

7) Pour another quart of kerosene in the crankcase & let it drain out the plug

8) Close the drain

9) Ditch the filter

10) Replace the filter

11) Refill with whatever oil I like. That means drive to super wall-mart & buy a $18 jug of 5w-30 Mobil1 synthetic.

If you want, you can buy several jugs of 5w-30 Supertech for hella cheap also & instead of doing it just once & putting the good mobil1 oil in, leave the dirty filter on the car (or replace it with some new cheap filter) & refill it with the cheap supertech. Drive around a little while. Then do the kerosene again exactly the same as before.

Whenever you finish, put the good mobil1 oil in last.

You can also pull the front valve cover off easily enough & see for yourself. But anyways... Ya any damage from engine sludge is covered by them if you can proven you've changed the oil anytime sanely.

[ChikuLexus]

Actually, I spent the last several hours reading about this "engine sludge" business and I do not believe that is the problem.

Reason being:

1. In all the complaints about the sludge, I didn't read once about it causing excessive gas consumption. It seems to cause engine failure. The Lexus dealer I went to said the sludge was interfering with the valve operation and timing. Then again, these are the same geniuses who said I needed a new $700 CD changer when the only problem was I was inserting the CDs in the changer right side up, instead of upside down.

2. The car runs beautifully. It could not run any more flawlessly than it does. If it were full of sludge as the Lexus dealer claims, I don't believe this would be the case.

3. All indications are that the engine is simply "running rich", taking in more gasoline than it can efficiently consume and losing the rest to evaporation. I know very little about the mechanics of engines and whatnot, but having read hundreds of posts, literally, about this engine sludge stuff, I really don't think the car would be running so well if that were it.

So, can anyone run down the causes of excessive gas consumption for me? I drive a lot every day, not by choice, and with these gas prices and awful mileage, I believe I am paying something like $12-$14 a DAY just to drive around 70 miles roundtrip.

[SKperformance]

Early to mid sludge causes reduced oil flow and excessive metal wear.

So sludge does cause increased gas milage.

As well as oil consumption.

Just call lexus head office and tell them your problem and that the dealer did not mention anything about it being covered.

[kcpth]

Download some of the FSM's that Toys has provided.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=26449

It will help greatly if u decide to learn or start working on ur car.

If u dont think it's an engine sludgine problem... perhaps get a second opinion on it. Is there another Lex Dealer or Toyota Dealer around? Remember... u dont always have to go to a LEX dealer just b/c ur car is a LEX. Go to a Toyota... it's cheaper... n since an ES is based on the CAMRY... the guys @ Toyota could probably take care of it too.

Good luck wit the problem. If u could get the warranty to work... go for it too... u might as well.

Tom

[mburnickas]

I would kind of do what Toysrme and myabe something else.

You could do any of the following:

1) Install seaform in the engine oil and then drain

2) use Auto-rx and then follw there instructions

3) pull an oil sample and then test

4) If running rich, throw it on the ODB reader and see what it says for ratios etc

5) if sludged, I would pull the left valve cover off and see what you have

6) if sludged I think you would have blue smoke coming out tailpipe.

I would also agree that most Lexus dealer and many Toyota are a ripoff, but that is part of being in business.

Also the dealer is messing with you. You do NOT have to provide documentation of regular oil changes dating back several years as they state.

Per Lexus all you have to do is, "All we ask is that

you show a reasonable effort to regularly maintain your vehicle. "

Plus I have been doing 10 to 12K drains on my car and they are fine.

Edited January 14, 2006 by mburnickas

[lexusk8]

Hello, I would really appreciate if anyone could offer advice.

I have a 2000 Lexus ES 300, with 100,000 miles on it (actually it will turn 100k in the next couple of days).

Car is excellent in every way and runs very well, but has one major problem. Per Lexus dealer, it has clumps of oil in the engine which is interfering with the valve operation and timing. This is causing it to go about 300 miles on a tank of gas, rather than the 400 it should be going per mileage specs.

Lexus dealer wanted $5500 to fix the problem, which of course is out of question. Firestone says they aren't equipped to handle such a problem. That's where the car has been serviced usually.

I don't know what to do. I love the car, it represents my vision of the perfect car. Nothing flashy or flamboyant about it, isn't loaded to the gills or anything, isn't the fastest or most comfortable car around, but a great little car and everything works together with a beautiful harmony and simple elegance to it.

Can anyone give ideas as to how to address this engine problem?

Thanks.

I'm having the same issue as well on my '01 ES. Currently at 119,000 miles, the mileage has been mediocre at best, ranging between 19 to 21 mpg, and getting roughly 300 miles on a tank before the low fuel light comes on. I'm debating on whether this has something to do with the O2 sensors, even though I have no check engine light. Other than this increased fuel consumption, my ES runs really solid and well.

[mburnickas]

Hello, I would really appreciate if anyone could offer advice.

I have a 2000 Lexus ES 300, with 100,000 miles on it (actually it will turn 100k in the next couple of days).

Car is excellent in every way and runs very well, but has one major problem. Per Lexus dealer, it has clumps of oil in the engine which is interfering with the valve operation and timing. This is causing it to go about 300 miles on a tank of gas, rather than the 400 it should be going per mileage specs.

Lexus dealer wanted $5500 to fix the problem, which of course is out of question. Firestone says they aren't equipped to handle such a problem. That's where the car has been serviced usually.

I don't know what to do. I love the car, it represents my vision of the perfect car. Nothing flashy or flamboyant about it, isn't loaded to the gills or anything, isn't the fastest or most comfortable car around, but a great little car and everything works together with a beautiful harmony and simple elegance to it.

Can anyone give ideas as to how to address this engine problem?

Thanks.

I'm having the same issue as well on my '01 ES. Currently at 119,000 miles, the mileage has been mediocre at best, ranging between 19 to 21 mpg, and getting roughly 300 miles on a tank before the low fuel light comes on. I'm debating on whether this has something to do with the O2 sensors, even though I have no check engine light. Other than this increased fuel consumption, my ES runs really solid and well.

just check the 02 sensors That is low MPG.

[Toysrme]

Ya, MPG is almost always nothing more that somebody needing a good tune-up! :D

o2's, plugs, might as well change the PCV valve. make sure the cat isn't plugged.

[flyguyco]

Ya, MPG is almost always nothing more that somebody needing a good tune-up! :D

o2's, plugs, might as well change the PCV valve. make sure the cat isn't plugged.

I have a 2003 ES300 with almost 34,000 miles on it, and I only get 20 mpg for a mix of highway & city driving. I don't think the maintenance schedule requires a tune-up until 60K. Plus I've always had about that same mileage since the day I drove it off the dealer's lot new.

Are the 2000-2001 ES300's supposed to get better mileage?

[Toysrme]

Not really. Highway MPG has been rising since the beginning, but the combined mileage is still 20-25mpg depending on the condition of the engine & how you drive the car.

It's mostly how you drive the car.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Toysrme

[SnesleyWipes]

Not really. Highway MPG has been rising since the beginning, but the combined mileage is still 20-25mpg depending on the condition of the engine & how you drive the car.

It's mostly how you drive the car.

My 92 fuel light comes on @ 300 miles and I drive relatively fast most of the time, but keep it OCD tuned. I have never checked my O2 sensors though...

[camlex]

Hello,

I did talk to mechanic about O2 sensor, he mentioned that milage has nothing to do with O2 sensor.

Hope this helps.

[steviej]

I did talk to mechanic about O2 sensor, he mentioned that milage has nothing to do with O2 sensor.

find a new mechanic.

[SnesleyWipes]

I did talk to mechanic about O2 sensor, he mentioned that milage has nothing to do with O2 sensor.

find a new mechanic.

[camlex]

Hello,

I knows, i have good mechanic.

What mechanic was telling, if you getting 28 mpg on freeway, changing O2, don’t make

any different in gas mileage. And when it’s go bad, you will see light on dash board.

front two effects gas, but increase 2mpg, do you like to spent $300?

so, let me ask with 97 model and 177,000 miles do i need to change O2 sensor?

and how much mpg will increase?

[mburnickas]

Hello,

I knows, i have good mechanic.

What mechanic was telling, if you getting 28 mpg on freeway, changing O2, don’t make

any different in gas mileage. And when it’s go bad, you will see light on dash board.

front two effects gas, but increase 2mpg, do you like to spent $300?

so, let me ask with 97 model and 177,000 miles do i need to change O2 sensor?

and how much mpg will increase?

You can have poor 02 sensors and no dash light will go one. They get weak over time. If you are on 177K miles on original sensors, you are on extra time. I would check them and go from there.

02 sensors are intergral to gas MPG and I only hope you are not spending $300 on (1) sensor.

[SnesleyWipes]

Hello,

I knows, i have good mechanic.

What mechanic was telling, if you getting 28 mpg on freeway, changing O2, don’t make

any different in gas mileage. And when it’s go bad, you will see light on dash board.

front two effects gas, but increase 2mpg, do you like to spent $300?

so, let me ask with 97 model and 177,000 miles do i need to change O2 sensor?

and how much mpg will increase?

You can have poor 02 sensors and no dash light will go one. They get weak over time. If you are on 177K miles on original sensors, you are on extra time. I would check them and go from there.

02 sensors are intergral to gas MPG and I only hope you are not spending $300 on (1) sensor.

Do they have to be replaced? Can they just be cleaned or serviced, and if so how?

[monarch]

I knows, i have good mechanic. What mechanic was telling, if you getting 28 mpg on freeway, changing O2, don’t make any different in gas mileage. And when it’s go bad, you will see light on dash board.

front two effects gas, but increase 2mpg, do you like to spent $300? so, let me ask with 97 model and 177,000 miles do i need to change O2 sensor? and how much mpg will increase?

Your MPG will likely increase by at least 1 MPG by just changing the front O2 sensor (the one ahead of the cat) and it will cost you only $110 if you order a 1997 Camry V6 front oxygen sensor from 1sttoyotaparts.com. You'll get a top quality, perfect fit Denso sensor just like the one on your car now.

The Toyota 4 cyl motors have one sensor ahead of the cat. The V8's have two. I'm not sure about the V6's like yours. The sensors(s) behind the cat last twice as long - more like 250-300K miles so I wouldn't change them yet.

The front oxygen sensors are like spark plugs - they don't go out suddenly, but do wear slowly overtime causing a gradual decrease in gas mileage and an increase in potential EGR valve clogging / cat converter clogging / throttle plate gumming emissions. By the time the check engine light comes on your mileage will be down by 2 MPG and so it makes sense to change the front sensor before it wears enough to trigger the check engine light.

[Toysrme]

All V engine's have one main lambda, or A/F sensor on each manifold.

OBD-I V's only have a post cat o2 only if they are CA Emessions.

AFAIK

The 2vz-fe has one o2 sensor, and 87-89 has no knock sensors. They have no post cat o2 sensors, even for CA emessions. I may be wrong there.

From Denso Aftermarket Online:

Here are the results of your search for Oxygen Sensors for a 1997 LEXUS ES300.

Sub Model Engine Position (L/R) Location (F/R) DENSO OE Style # DENSO Universal #

-- V6/3 -- FRONT 234-4622 234-4209

-- V6/3 -- REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 LEFT FRONT 234-9007 --

-- V6/3 LEFT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 RIGHT FRONT 234-9009 --

-- V6/3 RIGHT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

So for the Universal Denso sensor, It's the same thing.

Rockauto has them for $41.73!!!

[camlex]

All V engine's have one main lambda, or A/F sensor on each manifold.

OBD-I V's only have a post cat o2 only if they are CA Emessions.

AFAIK

The 2vz-fe has one o2 sensor, and 87-89 has no knock sensors. They have no post cat o2 sensors, even for CA emessions. I may be wrong there.

From Denso Aftermarket Online:

Here are the results of your search for Oxygen Sensors for a 1997 LEXUS ES300.

Sub Model Engine Position (L/R) Location (F/R) DENSO OE Style # DENSO Universal #

-- V6/3 -- FRONT 234-4622 234-4209

-- V6/3 -- REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 LEFT FRONT 234-9007 --

-- V6/3 LEFT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 RIGHT FRONT 234-9009 --

-- V6/3 RIGHT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

So for the Universal Denso sensor, It's the same thing.

Rockauto has them for $41.73!!!

Local Toyota dealer asking for $103.00 a peice for each sensors.

If i remember correct, V6 has 3 Sensors. What is part no for Universal fronts(Two)?

anybody used Universal?

Edited January 17, 2006 by camlex

[khhoang]

All V engine's have one main lambda, or A/F sensor on each manifold.

OBD-I V's only have a post cat o2 only if they are CA Emessions.

AFAIK

The 2vz-fe has one o2 sensor, and 87-89 has no knock sensors. They have no post cat o2 sensors, even for CA emessions. I may be wrong there.

From Denso Aftermarket Online:

Here are the results of your search for Oxygen Sensors for a 1997 LEXUS ES300.

Sub Model Engine Position (L/R) Location (F/R) DENSO OE Style # DENSO Universal #

-- V6/3 -- FRONT 234-4622 234-4209

-- V6/3 -- REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 LEFT FRONT 234-9007 --

-- V6/3 LEFT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

-- V6/3 RIGHT FRONT 234-9009 --

-- V6/3 RIGHT REAR 234-4137 234-4209

So for the Universal Denso sensor, It's the same thing.

Rockauto has them for $41.73!!!

Local Toyota dealer asking for $103.00 a peice for each sensors.

If i remember correct, V6 has 3 Sensors. What is part no for Universal fronts(Two)?

anybody used Universal?

toysrme listed all the part numbers for Denso (direct fit vs universal).. his chart is just kinda hard to interpret. 234-4209 is the universal. you can also price check Denso parts here www.sparkplug.com

[camlex]

Thank you.

I did find that part no for all three O2 sensors are common(234-4209). So are they same?

He mention that universal comes without connectors. How to connect with existing connectors?