SW03ES

Why would I care about liability?!? For the dealer...they aren't authorized to do work such as that...they can't modify the vehicle and I wouldn't blame them for fearing liability. Its a litigious world...everybody should fear liability. There are professionals that exist in the world that do specifically what you are looking for. Why not call them? Thats like calling a liquor store and asking them how to bake a cake...makes no sense. You're frustrated because you're unwilling to seek out the proper professional to help you with your issue. Look...if you only want responses that tell you exactly what you want to hear then write your issues in a diary. When you post stuff out here you've got to be willing to accept all different points of view. I've tried to help you...but you seem to be unwilling to listen to anything I have to say so I'll save my energy. For everyone else out there...got mice? Call a pest control company...they can help you. The Lexus dealer sells cars and changes oil...they don't eradicate pests. I think this has run its course...thread closed.

I'd call him today and leave a message for tomorrow...

Just because its an LS forum doesn't mean we can't discuss the LS' competitors... Thats not what Lamborghini cars are about...they are about emotion. And what I was saying is that is rapidly changing and profit is becoming more important than the pride of building the best product possible. I'm not saying they are better necessarily, I'm saying the quality of construction and engineering has improved greatly over the last few years while the quality and attention to detail in Lexus automobiles has degraded somewhat. European cars on the whole might not be quite as reliable as a Lexus, but they aren't "unreliable" anymore. You completely missed my point but thats okay. Without the ES...Lexus can't afford to build the LS. If by the good stuff you mean them stamping and welding the frame. Everything else is on display at the factory. I do, very well.

I stopped by a dealer in VA on Saturday to see a 2006 LS430 they had advertised and I was very surprised to see that they had several UL package 2010 ES350s on their lot. I have only ever seen one at a dealer in MD one time...but this dealer gets them pretty frequently. I think this is such a nice package on the car. The new UL wheels look great, the ML audio is a big upgrade from the base car as is the panoramic roof. The leather is much better...with triple stitching like the ES always used to have! This particular car had the black interior which has contrasting saddle stitching and center seat inserts. Very sharp... Just thought I'd share...

Hahaha...

Just for fun you should pop by a Hyundai dealer and drive a Genesis. Hyundai is really making some great cars and in a lot of ways I think many of their models are better built than their Toyota or Honda counterparts.

I mean...when you type and present yourself like that...you've got to expect that people are going to react to you in that way. Seriously...try slowing down and using some punctuation. Read what you're typing out loud before you post it. Honestly, I can't understand 3/4 of what you say. Do people still go to school anymore?

The world is a different place now, thats not the only competition for these cars. Lots of people are scaling back into smaller less expensive cars. Why were you surprised he said that? Its not so much the parts as it is the attitude of the company that is the issue here. No shame...no pride...thats the cultural shift I was talking about. Why would the euro flagships be built in Japan? I don't understand your point. The euro flagships are of course...built in Europe. The reason is that American consumers did not accept a Volkswagen at that price point. It has nothing to do with the car itself. People didn't want to spend $75,000 for a car and then service it next to a Jetta. The car itself is a lot of car for the money. Hyundai is having the same issue with the Genesis, its an incredible car for the money but people would rather buy slightly less car and get the brand cache and service support that comes with a luxury car. If you drive say a Hyundai Genesis 4.6 and a Lexus ES350. The ES350 is more money optioned similarly...and much less car...but they sell WAY more ES350s. They are hugely proud of that plant and they designed it as a showcase for their construction and design process. Meaning...someone other than Lexus takes pride in how they build cars. Well then maybe we'll leave the dissertation on Asian business practices to me...and the tutorial on replacing timing belts to you...hate to sound mean but you come in here acting like you're the only one who knows what he is talking about...and I think we've demonstrated thats not true.

I should hope it would drive MUCH BETTER than that Ridgeline LOL

To be fair to your friend, the Sonata is a great and very safe car. I would undoubtedly buy a Sonata over say a Camry. Even though the used LS may be similar in cost...they aren't cheap to maintain and repair...and the Sonata has a nice long warranty...

The problem is if its a claim it may show up on a Carfax as having been in an accident. It might...or it might not. For $350 I would never turn that into insurance. I wouldn't even ask your insurance company because with many companies an inquiry counts as a claim...

I have seen the videos you speak of and am very familiar with the quality Lexus vehicles exude and the quality of the plants that build them. Spend time on the forums? Buddy I run this forum and have posted over 16,000 times, more than anyone else here. I've moderated and run several different car enthusiast forums since 1997. I don't have anything left about these cars to learn. Again, I LOVE Lexus and I LOVE the LS. I don't need to be sold on the vehicles. However, one is a fool if they don't also understand that other carmakers have been building incredibly well built cars too. The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built. Its an incredible plant. A Lamborghini is a performance machine...you're the one talking about Lamborghinis not me. If you want to read about the Phaeton plant and see pictures here's a C&D article from 2003: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/03q3/vw_s_transparent_factory-feature Being #1 is tough and you're seeing Toyota falter right now under the spotlight with all these recalls. Plus as a culture Japan is changing, the old ways of focusing on the details and pride and shame associated with the quality of what they build are slowly being replaced with more American and more Capitalistic ways of doing business and you see that when these memos from within Toyota surface over these recalls. I have a degree is intercultural communication & business...if you think all the Japanese care about in 2010 is building good stuff...you don't know what you're talking about. Again, I'm not saying they aren't great cars...but they aren't as great as they used to be...and other carmakers are getting pretty darn close in the quality department is what I am saying. If you don't want to believe that...thats fine but its the truth.

Awesome! Overpaid? I think $19,000 for that car in that condition is an absolute steal! Just think of what kind of new car you could have bought for $19,000 and you'll feel incredible about the value. You have the "Nav/Lev" package, Navigation and Mark Levinson. 04+ it was called the "Modern Luxury Package" That car was $64,000 new...

LOL...you guys are mean ;)

Aha! Hard to argue with the free lease...

But it wasn't a used car...it was your car. I mean...you still love them so much and they're your avatar on a Lexus forum. Obviously you preferred them to the Lexus...so why not just keep it? Would have been cheaper than a lease on an LS and you would have the car you wanted. Doesn't make any sense. Thats one of the differences I was talking about with the new cheaper plastics. My old ES300 for instance still looks like new after 7 years and 147,000 miles however when I look at newer Lexus vehicles after a couple years I can see how easily those plastics mar...

Yeah keep us posted. Honestly though I bet those vinyl areas can be repaired...

LMAO. Buddy, I have been an automotive enthusiast my entire life and I have driven most of the cars on the road today. I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone else. If you want to believe that the LS is the only good car on the road and nothing else can even come close, go ahead and believe what you want. Do you have wet dreams at night because you own a "Lexus"? I'm not saying the Phaeton is more reliable than the LS, I'm saying the plastic and leather quality is better than that found in the LS nowadays. Its a really well built car...as are Audis. The fact is that while the build and material quality of many other carmaker's product is improving, and the quality of Lexus vehicles on the whole over the last couple years has slipped somewhat. You have three generations of the car...you have to see that. The quality of the plastics and the solidness is better in your LS400...gets worse in the 430 and worse still in the 460. Look at the rearview mirrors in all three cars...the 400 and 430 have a nice unit that is color keyed to the interior. The 460 has a thin shiny plastic parts bin black unit on all the interior colors. I mean, the 460 is still a very high quality car but not as much so as the 430 or 400. Look how other carmakers have moved above Lexus in initial quality over the last few years. You say don't bring up the wind noise problem, why not? Its an awful issue for those owners. You're saying the quality of the GS is better than a Bentley too? Have you been to the GS forums on here?! The new GS has all kinds of rattle and interior quality issues. BMW...Mercedes...Jaguar...Cadillac...Lincoln...even Hyundai with the Genesis are all building much higher quality vehicles than they have in the past and Lexus needs to look out. Saying that an LS is better built and has better quality materials than a Bentley is just...preposterous. The Bentley is a hand built machine with full wood inserts, everything in the car is wood, leather, real chrome, suede or sheepskin. The LS is obviously much cheaper than a Bentley so its to be expected. I know more about the Lexus LS than most people have forgotten, its a great car...but there are other great cars out there too. You're going to hit me back with "Facts I want proof" blah blah blah. What proof am I going to give you? I know quality...and when I sit in a vehicle and touch and manipulate the materials and controls I can tell what is of good quality and what is of lesser quality. I'm not talking about reliability. You obviously either can't, or you're too blinded by childish brand loyalty to see it. Better than a Bentley? LMAO...thats stupid. Maybe Bentleys from 1990, but not today. Your Movado watch must be better quality than a Rolex too right? I have a Movado but I'm not delerious enough to think its as well built as a Rolex. Just remember...you're arguing with someone who loves the LS...and is shopping for an LS. Obviously I agree with you that its a great car but this childish "any car but my car is !Removed!" stuff is beneath us here...leave it on the Mustang and Camaro forums.

I have always liked the two-tone look but it is getting outdated I agree. I think they look great all one color.

That happened to me one time a while back...no idea why it all of a sudden happens at random but it does.

To be fair that has more to do with branding than anything else. Have you driven a Phaeton? Its a great car... Honestly, in terms of material and build quality...its better than the Lexus. I think the Lexus rides and drives better, but the Phaeton rides and drives similarly to an S class or 7 series. The Lexus LS is a great car...my favorite car on the road today. Its not the only great car in the world though.

You're still putting money into the equation though. For people who buy a Bentley...money never enters the equation. To compare a Bentley to an LS460 or say you would rather have the LS460 is like saying I'd rather have my rowboat...you can keep that 80' yacht. It doesn't make any sense. If you loved your Phaetons so much and dislike the LS460 so by comparison, why did you get rid of the Phaeton? I mean...its not like it was old.

You're still putting money into the equation though. For people who buy a Bentley...money never enters the equation. To compare a Bentley to an LS460 or say you would rather have the LS460 is like saying I'd rather have my rowboat...you can keep that 80' yacht. It doesn't make any sense.

Threatening to call news authorities and threatening lawsuits isn't going to help, those kinds of things you have to actually do to get noticed, people always threaten that kind of thing and never do it. I agree about the letter, I'll even write it for you.

Come on...don't be silly. Where I parked there was a shed in front of the carport and the mice were in there...perhaps where you are parking there is no other attractive structure where the mice can find shelter? Mice are living and pack like creatures. How they act and react to things is unpredictable. Why did they choose to enter your car and not mine? Who knows. Again like I said, mice are living pack based animals and their activities are a mystery. Why all of a sudden some years ago did the mice start deciding to come into your area and try and live in your car? Literally...who knows why... Its frustrating because you are going to the wrong people for help. Lexus dealers sell & service Lexus vehicles...they aren't exterminators...and they aren't vehicle designers. Your vehicle has an infestation and you need to call someone who deals with infestations. Next you'll be complaining that in a flood your Lexus wasn't water tight. Cars aren't water tight...and they aren't impervious to animal or insect infestations either. Call someone who can actually help you, have them come to your house and treat the area where you park your car for mice. The mesh might help...but if they want in they are going to get in...you need to call an exterminator too. If you and I have the same car...and you have mice and I don't. What is the seperating factor? Sometimes the issue is indeed with the customer and not the vehicle. Again, I'm not trying to be or sound like I'm dismissing your issue but its just not a warranty problem and you're wasting your time and energy trying to make it one.