Comment Of A Bmw Owner

[denslexusgx470]

This is not a personal testimony that I'm making lol but today one of our clients made a surprisingly ironic comment. This guy is a big BMW fan. He is one of those guys, it's BMW or BUST.... He said he became a BMW lover since he was a kid because of all the reviews and stuffs in the magazines how the 3 series always beats the competition. Hence so this guy drives an 08 335i in the beautiful (to me) Montego Blue with every option except Navi.

Today the topic of cars was somehow brought up and he said that yes he's a BMW guy today but someday his dream car is still a Lexus LS! :o :o :o

I find that odd coming from a BMW fanatic because I know BMW owners (sorry to anyone else who has a BMW here also hehe) are biased and would never go with any other brand once they are in the BMW world. They say that other companies like Lexus and Mercedes are trying their best to be BMW-wanna-be's but that's not true. Every company has their own style. Lexus is for luxury, comfort and reliability. Mercedes is a mix of sportiness and luxury while BMW is more of sporty and road-hugging handling.

Interesting though hehe

[cduluk]

That is odd, since the LS is basically the opposite of the sporty BMW he's in now- the BMW is tiny and fast, and the LS is big and luxurious lol. <_<

I guess if i drove an IS for a while i wouldn't complain about moving into a BMW 7 at some point :)

[smooth1]

I don't know, I'm not sooo surprised I guess. The LS is just an undeniable luxury car icon. Look at where that car came from. Here in America we tend to think of Lexus as a new car company which it is, but the car line up has been around for years and years. The LS has evolved from a very solid back ground. The Toyota Celsior is very well known in Europe and Asia as one of the best cars ever made......ever! In fact I just read an article about the best deal on wheels for under 10k is a 15 year old Toyota Celsior. (I hope the link works but here: Autospeed Magazine

Even consumer reports says the Lexus LS is the most reliable car ever built. With so many publications and such a long history of reliability, I can easily see even European car buyers conceeding to the facts of the LS.

[nc211]

I rode in a new 750 il this past week while on a business trip. Not only is that thing so overly-complicated to figure out, the gear selector is on the steering column just like the turn signal switch, and figuring out which gear you're in is not so easy, as evidenced by the guy driving it (the owner) thinking he was in park, when in fact he was in reverse, but the seats were hard as bricks! Nice interior, obviously, cool looking, but not as "refined" in the smoothness category as a LS, not even my old 95. Might have been those monster-honker wheels though with the low profiles. Great looking car, VERY hi-tech.

[denslexusgx470]

The LS is a very reliable and refined car, no doubt about that. trust me though, people who buy these German cars are really addicted to it. Its not uncommon to hear owners who drove a 328i for 5 months traded that in for a 335i in a blink of an eye! :o There's a lot of guys on the forums who would die to own a M5, even if it means selling their new 550i (which is already a V8 geez!) for a used M5!

Complicated? Yes. These cars were built with buttons that you have to figure out what the symbol means. Took me awhile to figure out the star looking buttons on my steering wheel and which of the A/C buttons was for the A/C, and which was for the Auto A/C

I was only surprised because this guy who made that comment is a young guy, early 30s guy, someone who really will beat the s@^*t out of a BMW, would someday like to drive an LS. One thing is for sure, once you start off with these german cars and get addicted to them, it's hard to like a Lexus, I will honestly say this. It is a totally different driving experience.

I could clearly see NC getting into a world war with some of those BMW owners who bash other companies, especially Lexus lol. :chairshot: But I would still rather drive the GX than the 528i for some reason haha :whistles:

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

Before I recently leased my new 09 LS I had two VW Phaetons which is basically the Bentley Flying Spur without the turbo. Even though my LS is quick and has a lot of electronics the Phaeton didn't have, the Phaeton was a much better driving car. I can't drive the LS like I could the Phaeton because it goes into skid protect all the time. Even though the Phaeton is a heavier car 5,400 lbs it just sticks in the corners becasue of the all wheel drive. Unfortunately you can't get the Phaeton in the US any more or I would have leased a third one. You may say why would you want to push the LS? with a 0~60 time of 5.5 seconds why not?

[SW03ES]

If you wanted a car you could push...the LS isn't the right car. Its just a totally different kind of car than a Phaeton (which is a wonderful car).

You'd have been happier with an Audi A8 or a BMW 7 probably.

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

I almost got the A8 but their money factor sucked so Lexus got my business. VW is talking about bringing the Phaeton back to the US in 2010~2011. My concern is that they will cheapen out from Piech's orignial vision (current design) to make it profitable in the US market. Meanwhile I get a lot more sleep in the LS <_<

[SW03ES]

I think thats a very real possibility. They have to bring the price of the Phaeton down in order to entice buyers in the US, people just aren't going to spend $70k on a VW in the US...

[smooth1]

Especially seeing as how the Audi name has much more "prestige" for the same dollars.

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

It's all about promotion. Once you realize the Phaeton compares better to the Bentley Flying Spur @ $200K you realize it's true value. Also, I got a much better lease deal on the Phaeton @ $76K than I did on my LS @ $69K with free rental and maintenance. And service on the Phaeton was only every 10K as opposed to the LS 5K. And I never had to top off oil etc.

[SW03ES]

My Lexus has 140k miles and I never have to top off the oil.

Doesn't matter, Americans just aren't going to spend $70k for a Volkswagen. Could be the best car ever, just isn't going to happen.

The lease is because its heavily subsidized from VW to sell a slow selling vehicle. The Lexus costs more to lease because Lexus doesn't need to subsidize leases to move their cars.

[denslexusgx470]

My Lexus has 140k miles and I never have to top off the oil.

Doesn't matter, Americans just aren't going to spend $70k for a Volkswagen. Could be the best car ever, just isn't going to happen.

The lease is because its heavily subsidized from VW to sell a slow selling vehicle. The Lexus costs more to lease because Lexus doesn't need to subsidize leases to move their cars.

I agree. That's when the money factor in leases vary from time to time, depending on the sales of a particular vehicle. I remember when SUVs were selling at a SLOOWWW pace, that's when I got a really good lease deal on my 4Runner.

[amcdonal86]

The LS does not satisfy every itch for me, but it is a damn good car. I could see buying another one in the future, but it will probably not be my next car.

Regarding the Audi A8, I do not believe they are a serious competitor in the flagship luxury car market. It looks incredibly bland, and, by the way, it's not a proper luxury sedan! (Proper luxury sedans are V8 with RWD!)

[SW03ES]

Have you ever driven an A8? The A8 is a beautiful car. Very well crafted, great interiors. Its better than RWD...its AWD...

Bland? Its no more bland than the LS...

[amcdonal86]

Have you ever driven an A8? The A8 is a beautiful car. Very well crafted, great interiors. Its better than RWD...its AWD...

Bland? Its no more bland than the LS...

A proper luxury car is RWD, IMO! Just like (in general) a proper sports car has 2 seats, no roof, a stick, and is RWD. It irks me that if you don't opt for the quattro option on the A4 and A5 (maybe A6?), the standard option is FWD!

I'm not saying that the A8 isn't beautiful, but it's bland. Just looks like a big Passat or something. And I don't think the interiors are that great. Look at the surround around the shift gates. That's the same one that is on my friend's '99 Jetta!!!! I also don't think Audi has the same sort of brand recognition as Mercedes or BMW.

[SW03ES]

Thats fine to say if it never snows. Having owned a RWD LS where it snows, I'll take AWD. Plenty of luxury sedans out there in AWD today...BMW...Mercedes...

As for part sharing...plenty of switchgear on the LS that is shared with the Toyota line...the steering wheel thats in your LS is used on the Toyota Land Cruiser for instance...

[nc211]

amcdonal, based upon your analogy of rwd/awd, you're saying the Lexus LS is not a proper luxury sedan, because their top and most expensive model, the Hybrid (at $110k), is AWD. :whistles:

[amcdonal86]

amcdonal, based upon your analogy of rwd/awd, you're saying the Lexus LS is not a proper luxury sedan, because their top and most expensive model, the Hybrid (at $110k), is AWD.:whistles:

I believe the AWD model would be less of a proper sedan, but it is still a RWD based platform. I also don't consider the Acura RL a proper luxury sedan because it is heavily FWD based (and for many years was available only with FWD).

Is a Rolls Royce AWD? :)

[1990LS400]

Is a Rolls Royce AWD? :)

Jeez, Rolls Royce has not, until recently under BMW, been known to approach the epitome of technology. There is a big difference between workmanship and technology.

OK, Alan, let me get this straight. You would have me tell my 84 year old neighbor two doors down that "his" black 2006 Mercedes S500 4Matic sedan is not "a proper luxury sedan" while his wife's gold Mercedes S500 rear wheel drive sedan is "a proper luxury sedan"? I suspect he would take exception to that. :o

[amcdonal86]

Is a Rolls Royce AWD? :)

Jeez, Rolls Royce has not, until recently under BMW, been known to approach the epitome of technology. There is a big difference between workmanship and technology.

OK, Alan, let me get this straight. You would have me tell my 84 year old neighbor two doors down that "his" black 2006 Mercedes S500 4Matic sedan is not "a proper luxury sedan" while his wife's gold Mercedes S500 rear wheel drive sedan is "a proper luxury sedan"? I suspect he would take exception to that. :o

You're just glossing over the word "proper" as if it doesn't exist. I am not saying that AWD luxury sedans are not luxurious sedans. I am saying that they are not necessarily proper luxury cars. (By the way, what on earth does technology and workmanship have to do with being a "proper" anything?)

Browsing through some definitions of proper, some that pop out at me are:

"Called for by rules or conventions"

"Strictly following rules or conventions"

For many decades, the convention has been that luxury cars have a FR layout, so strictly speaking, to me, a PROPER luxury car is just that. And what better example of a proper luxury sedan than the quintessential luxury car, the Rolls Royce Phantom?

In the same light, I do not consider the Nissan 370Z a proper sports car. It may be a great performance car, but it is not truly lightweight or toss-able enough to be considered a proper sports car. However, something like a Honda S2000 would, in my mind.

Buy whatever you want, I will take my luxury sedan in RWD form! I get annoyed that the Audi A8 is not available in RWD. (Nor is any Audi for that matter.) When I drive my LS, even though it is Japanese, I feel a real connection to the glorious luxury sedans of Rolls Royce, Mercedes and other European brands that established the segment long ago. I think the connection would lose some of its appeal if my LS were FWD or even AWD.

[SW03ES]

I would defy you to be able to tell the difference between an AWD and RWD LS460 without looking at the badging. The AWD LS460, and the Benz and BMW systems ARE RWD for the most part until wheel slippage occurs and then they send some power to the front. That "connection" is just in your head.

Rolls Royces didn't even have keyless entry until recently...have you ever driven a Rolls Royce? I'd actually prefer to have an LS...thats the honest truth. Rolls is to be driven in...not to drive, they drive like trucks really.

[nc211]

We've got just a dusting of snow here today. Just on a dusting, in my GS, i'd rather be in a subaru. Oh this is going to be a sh*ty winter :chairshot: :cries:

[amcdonal86]

I would defy you to be able to tell the difference between an AWD and RWD LS460 without looking at the badging. The AWD LS460, and the Benz and BMW systems ARE RWD for the most part until wheel slippage occurs and then they send some power to the front. That "connection" is just in your head.

Rolls Royces didn't even have keyless entry until recently...have you ever driven a Rolls Royce? I'd actually prefer to have an LS...thats the honest truth. Rolls is to be driven in...not to drive, they drive like trucks really.

I don't know why you keep harping on the Rolls' lack of technology. And why would you expect a Rolls to be inspiring to drive?

If the (essentially) FWD Acura RL was the best driving luxury sedan on the market today, I still wouldn't consider it a proper luxury sedan. Why should the A8 be any different?

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'm more of a purist when it comes to defining cars.

[SW03ES]

The RL is not a luxury sedan of the same caliber of the LS, S Class, 7 series, etc whether its FWD, AWD, or RWD. The A8 however is an entirely different caliber of vehicle. I don't think you'd find many enthusiasts who wouldn't put it in the same class as the LS.

I define cars by how they are built and the performance they deliver, its a shame that you just automatically discount something because of the setup of its drivetrain. The A8 is a really, really nice car. Go test drive one. Great interior, great quality, reasonably priced. To say its not a "true luxury car" because its AWD is just...not accurate.