amcdonal86 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Hi, I recently noticed a minor issue with my '97 LS400 with about 92k miles on it. When I go over dips where the chassis of the car is bobbing up and down, I hear a slight creaking/rattle coming from the front. Last night I had 5 adults in the car and it also seemed to come from the rear as well. The strange thing is that this does NOT happen when I am just going over fast bumps or big potholes (presumably because the weight of the car isn't shifting too much?). What could this be? I'm starting to kind of become annoyed by it. Feels like something in the suspension if you ask me! UPDATE 2/10/09**** The problem has been solved and it turns out that the defective parts were the upper strut/shock mounts (tower). Even when they were off, cracks were not visible with close inspection, but they were, in fact, worn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I guess it's more of a clicking/creaking sound. I'm going to assume it's the sway bar bushings and replace those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewflueckiger Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I guess it's more of a clicking/creaking sound. I'm going to assume it's the sway bar bushings and replace those. I notice this in my car when going over big dips in the road. The dealer I bought mine from said it was simply "front strut noise" and it will not impair driving safety. If it is something that you can not stand while driving, then consider having this looked at and replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I guess it's more of a clicking/creaking sound. I'm going to assume it's the sway bar bushings and replace those. Likely because of the cold. Bushings get hard and shrink a bit when they're cold, so there's a bit of play and noise. Before replacing, grease them up to see if that gets them quiet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 From my experience, the front strut bar bushings are the first thing to go in the front suspension -- they seem to last an average of 90,000 miles plus or minus 10,000 miles. You can see the strut bars (some people call them strut rods) by kneeling down and looking in front of the front suspension -- the strut bars run horizontally from the wheel suspension to the front of the car. It can be less expensive to have the entire strut bar and bushing replaced rather than having new bushings pressed into the bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 From my experience, the front strut bar bushings are the first thing to go in the front suspension -- they seem to last an average of 90,000 miles plus or minus 10,000 miles. You can see the strut bars (some people call them strut rods) by kneeling down and looking in front of the front suspension -- the strut bars run horizontally from the wheel suspension to the front of the car. It can be less expensive to have the entire strut bar and bushing replaced rather than having new bushings pressed into the bars. Thanks. How much $$$ are we talking? It's the strangest thing. I just went for a drive to try to diagnose the problem. Even going full speed over speed bumps produces absolutely no noise, but going over a dip and/or cornering hard while going over a bump/dip produces this quiet crunching sound. I cannot reproduce the sound by bouncing the car up and down using my bodyweight on each corner of the car when I'm standing outside it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TA in KC Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 amcdonal86, I think you should start by replacing the stabilizer bar bushings (some call them sway bar bushings). I had what sounds like the same problem you are having, and replacing them fixed it completely. IMO, they are a good place to start because they are much cheaper than replacing the strut bars. I replaced the stabilizer bar bushings with Daizen polyurethane bushings purchased from Sewell Lexus. Before purchasing them, I was skeptical about using aftermarket parts and asked the opinion of the parts manager at my local Lexus dealership. She assured me that "if Sewell sells them, they are a great product". The Daizen bushings turned out to be excellent and much cheaper than Lexus OEM bushings. The OEM rubber ones are $20 each, the Daizen bushings were $30+shipping for the set of four. They are very easy to install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 amcdonal86, a good way to find out what is going on is to take your car in for a front wheel alignment. A good tech who do alignments can usually tell you what specific parts are worn. A lot of money can be wasted on trying different fixes. You might as well find out from a professional exactly what is wrong if the problem is not obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thank you all for the advice. I think I will start out by changing the stabilizer/sway bar bushings. It may not solve the problem, but it will be my first real project on the car and will be a great way, IMO, to bond with it! :) (So far I have little emotional connection to it since it's pretty boring to drive. I still enjoy it, though!) If that doesn't work, I'll take it to a Lexus dealership and see if they can't figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can't seem to find the Daizen kit for sway bar bushings for a '97 LS400 online. Does it not exist? I guess I will stick with genuine Lexus parts! Maybe I'll even have the Lexus dealership do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED. Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Suspension noises are hard to pinppoint because they are hard to hear/duplicate exactly when you need them. Luckily a lot of members seem to have concensus on one particular part which is also a fairy cheap part to both replace and purchase. I would stay away from the dealer. If you call them up to schedule an appointment to replace bushings they will want to know why and may find out about what is going on now and take advantage of that. Most people would and you may end up paying for things you don't need and at dealer rates that is usually a lot. Try this site: www.lexls.com Carl's site is one of the best. I do all my own work and have used it a lot when working on the 1996. What I would recommend is finding a mechanic who could look the car over for you and tell you what it may be if you don't want to work on the car. I'd also recommend going through Carls site and getting yourself comfortable with everything (especailly suspension) and then maybe see how you feel after that. It could save you a trip to a mechanic but I would still find one who could tackle projects you wouldn't want to do yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureDrifter Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can't seem to find the Daizen kit for sway bar bushings for a '97 LS400 online. Does it not exist?I guess I will stick with genuine Lexus parts! Maybe I'll even have the Lexus dealership do it! doesnt exist, but you can use a set of universal energy suspension polyurethane bushings with minimal modifications, and even get them with zerk fittings to make greasing easy. link is somewhere in this big 'ole FAQ i made years ago over on CL. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264122 most likely strut rod bushings are causing the clunking, or the lower ball joints. honestly, i just put the car up on stands and wiggle the wheel about, if it moves, CA bushing or upper/lower ball joints, if it doesnt, take a pry bar and put some stress on the strut rod and keep a light on it, you'll instantly see any tears/cracks in the bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TA in KC Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can't seem to find the Daizen kit for sway bar bushings for a '97 LS400 online. Does it not exist?I guess I will stick with genuine Lexus parts! Maybe I'll even have the Lexus dealership do it! amcdonal86, I didn't mean to make it sound like the Daizen bushings are the only good ones out there. The OEM ones will do just as good, if not a better job. They are just more expensive. If there are no Daizen bushings available for your car, I would just stick with the OEM ones and stay away from "universal" aftermarket parts. A Lexus dealership service writer once told me that they never replace the bushings alone, only the entire stabilizer bar assembly. I would purchase the OEM bushings from the parts department yourself and bring them to a mechanic of your choice. They should be no problem for any competent mechanic and much cheaper than a Lexus dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Blast! I'm already at the dealership and they're doing their "diagnosis". They quoted me $260 for all of the sway bar bushings, which I think is a fair price and is the reason I decided to come here. What do I do now? If they tell me it's the struts should I insist on having them replace only the sway bar bushings? It seems to me that it was much worse this morning because it was pretty cold (20s). I didn't notice the noise at all when I first got the car, but that week the highs were in the upper 50s. That seems to indicate that it is some sort of bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 ROFL. The service advisor just read me the "results" of their "diagnosis". Of course, there is a long laundry list of problems related to the suspension. Apparently the rear struts are blown, the front ball joints are leaking, etc., etc. I asked them just to replace the sway bar bushings. Hopefully they will do that instead of scamming me. Probably won't be coming back to this dealership again. They could be right about those problems, but I certainly don't notice any "clanking" during braking and I have a good ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureDrifter Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can't seem to find the Daizen kit for sway bar bushings for a '97 LS400 online. Does it not exist?I guess I will stick with genuine Lexus parts! Maybe I'll even have the Lexus dealership do it! amcdonal86, I didn't mean to make it sound like the Daizen bushings are the only good ones out there. The OEM ones will do just as good, if not a better job. They are just more expensive. If there are no Daizen bushings available for your car, I would just stick with the OEM ones and stay away from "universal" aftermarket parts. A Lexus dealership service writer once told me that they never replace the bushings alone, only the entire stabilizer bar assembly. I would purchase the OEM bushings from the parts department yourself and bring them to a mechanic of your choice. They should be no problem for any competent mechanic and much cheaper than a Lexus dealership. do some research buddy ;) Energy Suspension makes quality stuff, and the sway bar bushings i recco'd are Polyurethane, they aren't meant to be a replacement for OEM, they are an UPGRADE for someone who wants less body roll than the flimsy OEM rubber pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 bAHHHHH!!! I am enraged right now. I got hosed big time. BEWARE of Pohanka Lexus of Chantilly. Their service department is a scam!!! They ended up only lubing the swaybar bushings without my authorization. They charged me $226, and acted like I should've been happy that they saved me money. I would NOT have paid $226 to have them lube the bushings, but I would've paid $260 to replace them. I am never going back there. It is a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh, and they tried to tell me that the timing belt was cracked and is in danger of being destroyed, which is nonsense since it was changed 30k miles ago. AND they tried to tell me that my car desperately needed a 90k service. But I called another Lexus dealership today that verified that it had already been done on my car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TA in KC Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just remember that Lexus dealerships are independent businesses and do not necessarily operate in accordance with "The Lexus Covenant". Lexus corporate really has little control over the way they choose to treat their customers. Some dealerships, like ours in Kansas City (#1 CSI out of all 212 Lexus stores), are excellent, while others are terrible. There is also an independent shop here that is staffed with former Lexus dealership employees. I have had good experiences at both places. I generally go to the independent shop more often. They are much further away from my house, but the cheaper prices make up for it and they still have loaner cars like the dealership does. If you didn't like the service you got at Pohanka Lexus, I suggest you try another dealership or see if you have a similar independent mechanic in your area that specializes in Lexus cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Next week when I get back to school, I'm going to jack up the car and change the sway bar bushings myself. If I find no evidence of them having been lubed, I'm going to call Pohanka Lexus and demand a refund. If they refuse, I will contact the Better Business Bureau and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It can be less expensive to have the entire strut bar and bushing replaced rather than having new bushings pressed into the bars.What do machine shops charge to press these bushings in? I just replaced my strut rod bushings only (for about $90), but I have free access to a hydraulic press. It was really something when the old bushings broke free! The old bushings weren't cracked badly at all, but the difference in handling is amazing--it tracks down the road perfectly now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I don't know Blake. My comment is based on a Lexus dealer service writer telling me that the total cost of replacing the strut rod assemblies which included new bushings was less than buying the bushings separately and having his mechanic spend the time to remove the old bushings and press the new ones into the old strut rods. I'm looking at the invoice and the labor charge for replacing the two strut rods was $327.42 in 2007. I was charged $254.64 for the new strut rods that included new bushings. I don't see the hourly labor rate on the invoice but I think it is currently $110/hour. I don't normally use the Lexus dealer for repairs but the alignment equipment at my normal repair shop was not working and I needed to get the repair done before going on a trip. I've seen at least one comment on the forums where someone said that an auto parts store pressed new bushings into his existing strut rods. I usually have a professional mechanic take care of repairs that would put a car out of service -- I no longer have extra cars to use to run back and forth to an auto parts store while a car is up on jack stands. I guess I could ask one of my next door neighbors if I could borrow one of their extra cars for runs to the auto parts store -- two Maseratis and one Porsche! The strut rods (the invoice calls them both "bars" and "rods") were replaced on my 00 LS at 86,671 miles and probably needed replacing 5 - 10 thousand miles before that. I was getting quite a bit of vibration and sloppy handling and I thought it was a tire defect or a wheel balance problem. I no longer have the records for my 90 LS but I thought the strut bars on it lasted far longer. Having the new strut rods/bushings did make an amazing difference. You don't realize how bad some things are until after they are fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IS400 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Next week when I get back to school, I'm going to jack up the car and change the sway bar bushings myself. If I find no evidence of them having been lubed, I'm going to call Pohanka Lexus and demand a refund. If they refuse, I will contact the Better Business Bureau and see what happens. I was in the Alexandria, VA area last summer and their Lexus Dealer tried to rip me off for $3,900 to fix my AC when it was only an o-ring behind the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Next week when I get back to school, I'm going to jack up the car and change the sway bar bushings myself. If I find no evidence of them having been lubed, I'm going to call Pohanka Lexus and demand a refund. If they refuse, I will contact the Better Business Bureau and see what happens. I was in the Alexandria, VA area last summer and their Lexus Dealer tried to rip me off for $3,900 to fix my AC when it was only an o-ring behind the battery. Looks like I'll have to stay away from Lindsay Lexus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Well, I finally got the car up on ramps. It appear that they DID lube the sway bar bushings as they had said. Unfortunately, I think I will still have to replace them. That way I can eliminate this as a cause of the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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