Service Pickup Discontinued

[gocardinals]

I live 60 miles from my Lexus dealer. I have an 08 IS, but have previously leased MB and Audi from the same Iowa dealer. On all previous cars and this one - and a C Class my wife leased in November - the dealership offered pickup and a loaner for all service work. It was part of the sales pitch. Today, when I called to schedule my 5,000 service, the service manager said as of Jan. 1, they no longer offer this service.

So, what do other dealerships offer? If they want to discontinue this practice, do so on new leases/purchases. But I think it's in extremely poor taste to pull the plug in the middle of a lease.

Comments?

[gordonw]

You may not have noticed, but the economy is in the tank right now. Sales have plummeted even for luxury makers. Many dealers have let employees go and have cut back on overtime. Its pretty tough and scary for many dealers. Many are trying save money and need to cut back. Be happy that you even have a dealer to go to. I've seen quite a few dealerships either close or lose their franchise, and it'll get worse before it gets better.

[gocardinals]

You may not have noticed, but the economy is in the tank right now. Sales have plummeted even for luxury makers. Many dealers have let employees go and have cut back on overtime. Its pretty tough and scary for many dealers. Many are trying save money and need to cut back. Be happy that you even have a dealer to go to. I've seen quite a few dealerships either close or lose their franchise, and it'll get worse before it gets better.

Thanks for the news flash. Fortunately, I am in the newspaper business, and I have heard and reported on the economy being in the tank. And if you haven't noticed, the newspaper industry is as much in the tank as the carmakers. It sucks for everybody right now.

But if somebody doesn't want to subscribe to our newspaper anymore, they can simply cancel their subscription and get their money back. I am 6 months into a 4-year lease, and as far as I know I can't get out of it without penalty. The car dealer should honor their promise. It was part of the sale. I can still hear the salesperson say, "We will come pick up your car, and even leave you another Lexus to drive."

Like I said, I understand times are really tough. I can understand the dealer needing to make cuts. But at least have the courtesy of telling the customers before they do it. Couldn't they have sent out a letter saying, "we're sorry, but in 30 days we will discontinue our pickup service?' At least people like me who were due for routine maintenance could have gotten in one last free pickup. Instead, I call and instantly the service tech says, as of today, we no longer offer pickup service. Just seems like poor business to me.

[bartkat]

60 miles away pickup service was pretty rare I'd say. I drive to the dealer and they give me a loaner if it's going to be very long.

[tex2670]

I don't really see them going to the hassle and expense of reaching out to all customers to inform them--customers can find out the way you did (and only a small minority of customers use drop off/pick up anyway). Maybe if you had a December service appointment, they would have told you "Just so you know, come Jan 1, we won't be doing this any more." Just bad luck you were due for service in Jan.

I have to say, I'm a bit surprised that they eliminated it completely. My dealer does it (assuming they haven't eliminated it since August), but they will only schedule 2 pickups per day. There are other ways to cut costs regarding loaners that don't alienate customers in such a manner--make loaners available for service appointments 2 hours or more; make drop off pickup for service of 4 hours or more. Dealers are doing what they can to stay afloat--but they need to continue to keep their service customers happy if they want those customers to keep coming back. My dealer is about 30 miles away from my house, and will do pick up/drop off, but if they discontinued that service, I'd be very likely to switch to a different dealer.

I agree that you bought the car from that dealer on the basis, in part, on being able to get drop off/pick up, but if it wasn't in your contract, you know that it wasn't "part of the sale".

[sktn77a]

Yeah, I have a 1 year old IS250 and my dealer is trying to avoid giving me a loaner car for service - says they only give you the loaner if you have to leave it overnight. I threw a sh_t fit and they gave me the loaner!

Shouldn't have to do this, Lexus!

[tex2670]

Yeah, I have a 1 year old IS250 and my dealer is trying to avoid giving me a loaner car for service - says they only give you the loaner if you have to leave it overnight. I threw a sh_t fit and they gave me the loaner!

Shouldn't have to do this, Lexus!

It's not "Lexus"---it's your dealer. Look at the Lexus website, in the owner's link. The Lexus policy is not as generous as most dealers provide.

[smooth1]

I know they have made alot of cut backs at the dealership here in Orlando as well. They closed the complimentary cafe, cut the service staff by almost half. But, they do still offer the pick up service. Although I've never used that, I do somewhat see your point. But I would take that up with the dealer. If that dealer went out of business, that wouldn't be up to Lexus to continue for you.

[gordonw]

Let's call it what it is. Its just a courtesy service. Its something that should be appreciated, not expected. The small percentage that act like children demanding it generally don't appreciate it nor do they want to. They generally ruin it for the majority of customers. In a funny way, the small percentage make a stronger impression to the dealership to generally discontinue or cut back a service because they make it such a hassle. Even wierder is why dealerships cater to the small minority as much as they do as they aren't even the best or most loyal customers.

[BillyShaft]

I feel your frustration.

Unfortunately like the guys have said, it was a courtesy that the dealer would extend and not a contractual obligation. It was a perk that they can no longer afford to offer.

At least the perks that Lexus offers (or used to offer) were real. When I leased my two Grand Cherokees back in the mid-90's, the sales people would say that when you bought from them, you get preferential treatment at their 5 star service center and loaner car and....and....AND. Of course, none of this was true...just sales fluff.

[sktn77a]

Yeah, I have a 1 year old IS250 and my dealer is trying to avoid giving me a loaner car for service - says they only give you the loaner if you have to leave it overnight. I threw a sh_t fit and they gave me the loaner!

Shouldn't have to do this, Lexus!

It's not "Lexus"---it's your dealer. Look at the Lexus website, in the owner's link. The Lexus policy is not as generous as most dealers provide.

True, of course, but I use the two synonymously. Car manufacturers do give dealers breaks on service loaner cars, though.

[gocardinals]

Let's call it what it is. Its just a courtesy service. Its something that should be appreciated, not expected. The small percentage that act like children demanding it generally don't appreciate it nor do they want to. They generally ruin it for the majority of customers. In a funny way, the small percentage make a stronger impression to the dealership to generally discontinue or cut back a service because they make it such a hassle. Even wierder is why dealerships cater to the small majority as much as they do as they aren't even the best or most loyal customers.

Not sure what you mean by the "small percentage who act like children?" Do you care to explain?

Update, after voicing my concerns to my salesperson, they did arrange for one more pickup and loaner. That was very kind of them, and I appreciate it.

While the pickup was not part of a written contract, it was certainly a consideration when I leased my first hi-line car from the dealer 7 years ago. I live in a smaller Illinois city (30,000) which offers mostly GM, Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, etc. No luxury cars. The nearest luxury dealer is 60 miles away ... and I'm not talking suburbs.

I probably would not have initially leased with the out-of-town dealer had they not bragged up the "we will even pick up your car for service" perk. So, it has become expected.

Like I initially said, I totally understand the tough economic times. I just think the dealer could have made more of an effort to tell customers of the policy change at the very least.

[tex2670]

Let's call it what it is. Its just a courtesy service. Its something that should be appreciated, not expected. The small percentage that act like children demanding it generally don't appreciate it nor do they want to. They generally ruin it for the majority of customers. In a funny way, the small percentage make a stronger impression to the dealership to generally discontinue or cut back a service because they make it such a hassle. Even wierder is why dealerships cater to the small majority as much as they do as they aren't even the best or most loyal customers.

Not sure what you mean by the "small percentage who act like children?" Do you care to explain?

Update, after voicing my concerns to my salesperson, they did arrange for one more pickup and loaner. That was very kind of them, and I appreciate it.

While the pickup was not part of a written contract, it was certainly a consideration when I leased my first hi-line car from the dealer 7 years ago. I live in a smaller Illinois city (30,000) which offers mostly GM, Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, etc. No luxury cars. The nearest luxury dealer is 60 miles away ... and I'm not talking suburbs.

I probably would not have initially leased with the out-of-town dealer had they not bragged up the "we will even pick up your car for service" perk. So, it has become expected.

Like I initially said, I totally understand the tough economic times. I just think the dealer could have made more of an effort to tell customers of the policy change at the very least.

I completely understand your point, the the lesson learned is to get them to give it to you in writing.

When I bought my Honda Pilot, the sales person hyped the "free annual state inspection for as long as you own the car." Since this was the closet Honda dealer, what a great perk. Well, come to find out that there was a condition--you had to come and attend some new owner's clinic, and until you did, the system didn't show you were entited to that perk. I didn't really need to waste 2 hours of my life I wouldn't get back. After some complaint, I convinced them to update the system to show I was entitled.

To play devil's advocate, any customer could make claims that the salesman told them this, that or the other thing. My salesman told me I could arrange for pick up of my car the night before--more precisely "Sure, anything you want". FALSE. If it's really important, tell them you won't buy without written assurances. Otherwise, THIS happens.

[BillyShaft]

To OP's point, I think that these are usually games that "lesser" dealers play.

After dealing with the disappointment and agony of Chrysler service in the 90's, my expectations are remarkably low. I still get excited that the Lexus sales people know their product so well :)

[SW03ES]

The OP is missing a crucial point, he keeps talking about "leasing from this dealer" etc.

You don't lease from the dealer, you lease from whatever bank they source the lease to (whether it be Lexus Financial or some other bank). The dealer is a RETAIL facility, you purchased a vehicle from them...and you financed it via a lease. The dealer got paid as if you had bought the car. They're done and are not recieving any continuing profit from you because of your lease. All the dealers here offer pickup and dropoff, whether you bought the vehicle from them or not.

You don't have to have the vehicle serviced by the leasing or selling dealer, any dealer will do it. Or you can find a good independent mechanic that can service your Lexus and save you some money, now might be the perfect time to do that.

I do agree with you that in this era of cutting back services and perks dealers need to be aware of how these changes are affecting their customers. I agree that your service advisor should know you well enough to know you always like the pickup and dropoff service and could have given you a heads up. I think most customers are understanding of the needs for these kinds of cuts vs the only other option, an increase in prices which they are trying to avoid. The thing is, we customers just want to be told and we want it explained to us.

Its a bummer, this service is kind of a part of owning your Lexus you enjoy, I get that.

[tex2670]

I just confirmed a service appointment at Lexus of Chester Springs (PA), and specified drop off/pick up, to which they responded: "At what address?" You may want to shop around other dealers and see if they'll pick up to get your service business. Chester Springs picks up within a 100 mile radius, and Lexus of Wilmington DE will pick up within a 2 hour radius--so it's worth exploring, even with dealers that aren't close by.

[gocardinals]

I just confirmed a service appointment at Lexus of Chester Springs (PA), and specified drop off/pick up, to which they responded: "At what address?" You may want to shop around other dealers and see if they'll pick up to get your service business. Chester Springs picks up within a 100 mile radius, and Lexus of Wilmington DE will pick up within a 2 hour radius--so it's worth exploring, even with dealers that aren't close by.

I find it hard to believe a dealer would pick up your car if you didn't lease/buy the vehicle from them.

[tex2670]

Not only did Lexus of Chester Springs (PA) pick up my car for service, they filled up my gas tank!

EDIT--Thanks to Kurtz on CL for pointing out that this is part of the fuel line recall--they drain the gas and refill the tank.

Oh, well.

[BillyShaft]

I just confirmed a service appointment at Lexus of Chester Springs (PA), and specified drop off/pick up, to which they responded: "At what address?" You may want to shop around other dealers and see if they'll pick up to get your service business. Chester Springs picks up within a 100 mile radius, and Lexus of Wilmington DE will pick up within a 2 hour radius--so it's worth exploring, even with dealers that aren't close by.

I find it hard to believe a dealer would pick up your car if you didn't lease/buy the vehicle from them.

Why?

The service department typically stands alone as a profit center. I purchased my last 3 RXs from dealers no where near where I have had them serviced. The service department seems anxious to get my business, and they either don't know or don't care where you got the vehicle from.

I think you are buying into the sales BS they like to use about how you get special treatment in service if you buy from them. When I scheduled my first free CPO service and service campaign for a vehicle I purchased out of state, the guy took my name, scheduled my appointment and told me the loaner would be warmed up and ready to go. He couldn't care less where I bought the vehicle.

[tex2670]

The verbal "we'll pick your car up...." may be a perk or a courtesy but it is still a part of the lease agreement and could be considered a breach, albeit verbal and way less provable than a written contract - still legal and binding. Proving it legally probably could be done, but it may not be worth the time, cost and effort.

Sorry, but this could not be further from the truth.

[gocardinals]

The OP asked for opinions and that's what he's getting.

I sympathize with the OP because as a Lexus owner you get treated with Lexus gloves, and you get used to it. The verbal "we'll pick your car up...." may be a perk or a courtesy but it is still a part of the lease agreement and could be considered a breach, albeit verbal and way less provable than a written contract - still legal and binding. Proving it legally probably could be done, but it may not be worth the time, cost and effort.

The point I believe the OP was making is that the Lexus dealer could have taken some time and a small cost to inform it's customers of the change in policy. That would have been in line with the Lexus luxury treatment. Like "due to financial conditions, we will need to charge for our pick up and delivery services". Perhaps a small fee - like $25.00.

My Lexus dealer offered free rental car for the day, but later started charging $10.00.... I thought holy cow.... I get to drive a Lexus all day for $10.00, and they pay for my gas!!

In relative terms, bitching about not getting P/U and delivery service from your Lexus dealer isn't even a pimple on an elephant's butt compared to what we are about to lose as "services" and other "perks"!!!!!!! Like someone commented, you are lucky that the dealership is still in business!! By the end of this year, you may be !Removed!'n about the fact that you have to drive 100 miles just buy groceries!!

Or your mortgage bank for your home loan.... they may want raise your APR. If you read your signed contract carefully, you will find in the small print that your mortgage company can ask for the money they loaned you for your house..... to be paid in full upon demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o Let us know what you find.

Thanks for the helpful response.

Sorry to others if I came across sounding selfish. I just thought a deal was a deal.

[SW03ES]

I find it hard to believe a dealer would pick up your car if you didn't lease/buy the vehicle from them.

Absolutely they will. Dealers make more money servicing cars than selling cars. They want your service business.

The verbal "we'll pick your car up...." may be a perk or a courtesy but it is still a part of the lease agreement and could be considered a breach, albeit verbal and way less provable than a written contract - still legal and binding. Proving it legally probably could be done, but it may not be worth the time, cost and effort.

I also disagree. Nowhere in the lease paperwork does it say the dealer will do anything to service the car. The lease is between the lessee and LEXUS/TOYOTA FINANCIAL SERVICES, a bank. LFS/TFS doesn't service vehicles and the dealership is not a party to the contract. "But he said..." is meaningless.

Once you sign on the dotted line and drive off in the vehicle, the dealer owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. They are a RETAIL STORE, and you purchased something from them. Any financing agreement you made with a third party has nothing to do with them.

Or your mortgage bank for your home loan.... they may want raise your APR. If you read your signed contract carefully, you will find in the small print that your mortgage company can ask for the money they loaned you for your house..... to be paid in full upon demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let us know what you find.

This is also not completely true. First of all, if you have a fixed rate loan your lender can never increase the rate, nor can any other lender they may sell the loan to for servicing. That is your rate, and it is not like a credit card where they can play with the rate whenever they want.

Its true the lender can call the loan due, its called the acceleration clause. However, you have to be in default of the loan agreement before they can do that. So for instance, if you stop making payments...they can accelerate the loan. If you move out and have someone else start making the payments and you don't tell them...they can accelerate the loan. If you add someone to the title without telling them, they can accelerate the loan. If you sell the house, they can accelerate the loan, etc.

Lenders don't accelerate loans unless you sell the house, they foreclose on you instead if you are in default.

However, that has nothing to do with his situation...

[tex2670]

I find it hard to believe a dealer would pick up your car if you didn't lease/buy the vehicle from them.

Absolutely they will. Dealers make more money servicing cars than selling cars. They want your service business.

The verbal "we'll pick your car up...." may be a perk or a courtesy but it is still a part of the lease agreement and could be considered a breach, albeit verbal and way less provable than a written contract - still legal and binding. Proving it legally probably could be done, but it may not be worth the time, cost and effort.

I also disagree. Nowhere in the lease paperwork does it say the dealer will do anything to service the car. The lease is between the lessee and LEXUS/TOYOTA FINANCIAL SERVICES, a bank. LFS/TFS doesn't service vehicles and the dealership is not a party to the contract. "But he said..." is meaningless.

Once you sign on the dotted line and drive off in the vehicle, the dealer owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. They are a RETAIL STORE, and you purchased something from them. Any financing agreement you made with a third party has nothing to do with them.

Or your mortgage bank for your home loan.... they may want raise your APR. If you read your signed contract carefully, you will find in the small print that your mortgage company can ask for the money they loaned you for your house..... to be paid in full upon demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let us know what you find.

This is also not completely true. First of all, if you have a fixed rate loan your lender can never increase the rate, nor can any other lender they may sell the loan to for servicing. That is your rate, and it is not like a credit card where they can play with the rate whenever they want.

Its true the lender can call the loan due, its called the acceleration clause. However, you have to be in default of the loan agreement before they can do that. So for instance, if you stop making payments...they can accelerate the loan. If you move out and have someone else start making the payments and you don't tell them...they can accelerate the loan. If you add someone to the title without telling them, they can accelerate the loan. If you sell the house, they can accelerate the loan, etc.

Lenders don't accelerate loans unless you sell the house, they foreclose on you instead if you are in default.

However, that has nothing to do with his situation...

Perhaps I didn't express my point well.

What part of this says anything about "fixed"???

"Or your mortgage bank for your home loan.... they may want raise your APR. If you read your signed contract carefully, you will find in the small print that your mortgage company can ask for the money they loaned you for your house..... to be paid in full upon demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o Let us know what you find."

I understand the "clause"... the bank still can ask for their loan to be paid in full... it's in my contract, whether they choose to demand it or not.

I'm not a lawyer, but if a car salesperson says "Part of our service includes pick up and delivery"... that feature or benefit is part of the sale of vehicle. There are implied and expressed warranties. Also, in contract law there is something called "misrepresentation" - verbal or written. If the salesman added "free pick up and delivery service" as part of his close, it would be misrepresentation if that benefit was then excluded after the contract was signed.

Because the loan or lease documents do not have a specific LIST of every item on the vehicle, it does not mean that you are not buying what was agreed upon and sold to you by the seller - and that includes "We will pick up and deliver your car for service". If I buy a car and pay cash or finance it through my own bank, does that mean the car dealer I bought it from now has NO legal responsibilites to honor the contact of the sale??

Based on your comments,

"and the dealership is not a party to the contract."

if your Lexus is proven defective, then your recourse for repair will be through the financial institution that provided the loan???????????? So, in my case, when a TSB for a defective fuel line is published, I call up my credit union and say "I'm bring'n my car in and you need to fix it????????????

There is nothing in my loan documents for the IS250 that states I am buying tinted glass and chrome wheels, however, during the negotiation with the salesman, we agreed that those two items will be included in sale price.

My "assumptions" and experiences may be wrong, however, I will stand by my statements until you show me where my statements are "far from the truth".

You are correct that binding oral contracts exist, but you are getting all the different obligations mixed up. When you establish an order for your car, it is at a certain price, with certain options included. If your order was supposed to include tinted windows, then the dealer is obligated to deliver what they promised. BUT if you show up, inspect the car, pay your money, sign all of the documents (which, in PA, includes a little slip that says "We owe__________" for anything the dealer "promised" but didn't deliver, and is usually filled out "NOTHING"), AND TAKE DELIVERY, you may have waived any right to get it. BUT--Your documents from Lexus Financial (or whatever the company is) relate to the lease or financing of an identified vehicle (which either had, or didn't have, tinted windows). It has nothing to do with what services a dealer will provide.

And--if you paid cash, that sale is done when title passes.

A dealer provides warranty service--why? Because it's in the written warranty.

When I bought my Honda, the dealer had a written policy that state inspections are free for as long as I own the car--but if the salesman just told me, I'm screwed. If there is a defect, federal law requires the dealer to repair or replace the defect. It's no different than the Peanut Corp of America recall. Some recalls are "voluntary", but in most cases, because they know the govt will force the recall if they don't do it themselves. This has nothing to do with your contract, or what the salesman told you.

The law requires that contracts for goods in excess of a certain dollar amount be in writing. If not, they are unenforceable, absent things like fraud, etc, or extraordinary proof or circumsances. There is just no such thing as a binding oral contract from a dealer for a car. There's a reason that you have to sign so many pieces of paper when you buy the car--to protect against "I was told XX". There's no need to prove/disprove what was said--it's not in writing. End of story.

There's no such thing as an implied warranty of service pickup--if it's not in writing, it's not included. Look--the salesman may tell you they serve Starbucks coffee, and have free Wi-Fi in the service lounge, but there's no implied warranty that it will continue. It's a COURTESY they use to keep customers. If they eliminate it, people may go elsewhere.

While it may be "unfair" for a salesman to tell you something that you rely on, that doesn't make it a binding contract.

[bartkat]

This thread nominated by bart as thread of the year.

[smooth1]