Ls Navigation -- Call For A Class Action?

[Scotsman2]

That's an interesting point LexusTech117 raises; but rather than make rogue alterations to a system I know technically nothing about, I think it might make sense for us to group together and send Lexus an open letter requesting that they make these features available to those who want them. I'll bet Lexus has received many letters from disappointed folks.

I believe Lexus wants to pursue perfection as much as they do customer satisfaction. If I get 50 or more posts to this subject (50 individuals), I'll be happy to post a letter and provide a way for folks to "digitally sign" the letter.

For the everyday person who buys an LS (or an ES; or any other Lexus for that matter) and wants to use the functions I've mentioned in this section, there's no reason they should resort to hacks, cutting wires or any other third-party work being performed on their cars. Lexus should get in front of this now, before this request becomes something much more formal.

I believe Lexus should allow "unlocking" these features; and if they need to, for their own protection, have the owner sign a waiver, then so be it.

Who else agrees?

I agree 100%. I would be willing to sign a waiver so that these features could be unlocked. Also, note that speach recognition software allows for you to "TEACH" your software to recognize your individuality, I can not for the life of me get the thing to recognize what I am saying

My first Lexus. New LS460 in May. Back to Mercedes for me. It's a beautiful car spoiled by the Sat/Nav. If the voice commands worked & were intuitive (Mine constantly turns Audio Off as a default for not understanding my command!) it might be usable, but they don't & you search for the right command which takes umpteen attempts. We use this car for touring,every week we set off, usually only knowing our first port of call. On the way throughout the day we need to navigate & every time we need to find a safe parking place. A recent trip to Eastern Washington were we were wandering from place to place was spoiled for my wife by having to map read all the time. Constantly trying to set new destinations using the Sat/nav was so frustrating we gave up.

Count me in to anything that would get this changed.

Tom

[SW03ES]

I don't understand. You say you know your first stop right? Why wouldn't you just enter the next destination when you get to that first stop?

I've used the thing that way for over 5 years and it works fine...

[WhitSTer]

Hey, I ride motorcycles and I support the no helmet laws, but that does not mean I ride without one. With some of the money I saved buying used, I'll invest in one of the aftermarket solutions to this "cover your !Removed!" annoyance.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned the Lexus NAV system is completely useless!! And whenever anyone asks me how I like my new LS460, I tell them so. If you paid for it and still can't use it when you need it...it's useless and you got fleeced!!

I just bought a new Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS (Best Buy has them on sale for $539) which I can also use on my scoot when on longer trips. I can use it anytime I want and can layout routes and waypoints on the PC rather than sit in the garage, with the ignition on, and plod through all the non-intuitive/turnstile menus.

Lexus should get together with Garmin and learn how to do this stuff!!!

Whit

[stusmall]

That's an interesting point LexusTech117 raises; but rather than make rogue alterations to a system I know technically nothing about, I think it might make sense for us to group together and send Lexus an open letter requesting that they make these features available to those who want them. I'll bet Lexus has received many letters from disappointed folks.

I believe Lexus wants to pursue perfection as much as they do customer satisfaction. If I get 50 or more posts to this subject (50 individuals), I'll be happy to post a letter and provide a way for folks to "digitally sign" the letter.

For the everyday person who buys an LS (or an ES; or any other Lexus for that matter) and wants to use the functions I've mentioned in this section, there's no reason they should resort to hacks, cutting wires or any other third-party work being performed on their cars. Lexus should get in front of this now, before this request becomes something much more formal.

I believe Lexus should allow "unlocking" these features; and if they need to, for their own protection, have the owner sign a waiver, then so be it.

Who else agrees?

I went from the LS430 to the LS460L and am really dissapointed in quite a few technology (or lack there of) issues with the car. the biggest is that there are no hidden buttons to enable the nave while moving like in the LS430. When My wife had a NAV put in her SEQUOIA by the same MFG as the Lexus unit, the simple did something with the brake grounding wire and you can use the unit anytime you want without needing hidden buttons.

[tonycantu]

I am very upset about my car nav system too.

I purchased an LS460L car from Westside Lexus in Houston, TX, I asked the salesman to show me about the navigation system and he gave me the run around.

They never told me the navigation system does not work while driving.

I would have never buy a car like this with non working systems.

I have a BMW 760Li V12 and it is a much better car than this. Drives faster, smother, and all the equipment WORKS, contrary to the Lexus.

I wanted my money back, this is a big time scam!!!

We need to sue the hell out of Lexus for this.

Dr. Cantu

I'd like to start a discussion regarding the Lexus LS460 Navigation lock-out and what we, as a group, can do to persuade Lexus that we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how.

Recently, on a trip in Florida, I needed to re-route around some traffic. I knew where I wanted to go (a POI I knew). My wife, in the passenger's seat, was perfectly able to use the navigation system, were it not for the fact that it was locked out while we were in motion. I had to pull into a parking lot to make the selection. The traffic was so bad that getting back in took over 10 minutes (Orlando, go figure). The navigation system that was supposed to save me time ended up being more hindrance than help.

This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway, which is what some folks might do, or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination -- especially for the passenger to do the selection -- is both ludicrous and insulting.

I have more stories, but I'm sure you share most of them.

These features are "locked out" while the car is in motion, and I believe (as I think many of you may) that the use of these options should be our choice -- not the car maker's choice.

• Choosing a different destination (POI, Address, Phone, etc.)
  
• Choosing an album to play by selecting it directly, rather than having to page through them one-by-one
  
• Dialing a phone number when using the telephone
  
• Other features "locked out" during forward motion
  

What I want, and what I believe we all expect, is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it.

So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.

[SW03ES]

I've said it until I'm blue in the face, but Lexus has been making this nav system...with this lockout for 11 years and MOST manufacturers have a similar lockout. You won't have any grounds for a suit. The navigation works when driving, you just can't type in destinations. You can enter destinations by voice. Just type in your destination before you leave...

I have a BMW 760Li V12 and it is a much better car than this. Drives faster, smother,

Did you drive the Lexus before you bought it?

And I would hope the BMW was all those things because its a V12 vs a V8 and costs about $40,000 more.

[Brio]

Hello. My name is Brian and i'm located in Czech republic. At this time, i do not own any LS model, but i hope it will be very soon....

Not sure if my post would be helpful or not, but i was today at our Lexus dealer here to look-over some 460's. While i was there, i asked the sales manager about the lockout, if they are able to deblock the Navigation/DVD function. His answer was: "Yes, no problem. We can do it for free at our shop" I also asked if they are using some aftermarket units like VAIS(if i'm not wrong) or so and the last thing he said was that they work only with OEM tools.

On my opinion, every US/CAN dealer is able to unlock the features above. So probably, the "problem" is with Lexus USA. Just a thought.

My English is not of the best ones and i'm sorry for that!

Brian

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[SW03ES]

I'm glad your Magellan works for you. I also have a Garmin that I use when travelling and I prefer the Lexus system. I just plain don't want the hassle of a seperate system, I like my built in unit just fine.

I can re-route myself with the OEM Lexus system, you can detour when moving. You just can't enter destinations by typing, only by voice.

I guess its great the nav is an option. Most car companies don't even offer cars without it anymore.

[tonycantu]

Wow, you must be a Lexus dealer. THE NAVIGATION OF THE LEXUS DOES NOT WORK while driving, that is a fact. Most functions are disable. I do have basis for my lawsuit due to false informaiton and fraud because I DID ASK ABOUT THE NAVIGATION system and the Lexus dealer salesman LIED to me by omission and giving me the run around. ALL customers should be told that the NAVIGATION SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK WHILE DRIVING, if not it is fraud and deceptive trade practices, which in Texas you can sue them in civil court for that.

I might sue them, but I have to take into account my time (since lawsuits are very time consuming). I will be getting rid of this piece of crap and stick with BMW or Mercedes.

My BMW 760Li works great, and yes it is $141000.00 vs $90041.00 (with full options and K40 and including taxes, about $50000.00 dollars more), but I do not care about money. However I do care about people omission of facts when I asked them about it and gave me the run around. Just because they lied to me so blatantly I will never buy another Lexus again and will get rid of this one asap.

Also, they installed Bridgestone 235 50 R18, they are a piece of garbage. Go to www. tirerack.com and see the reviews. Dealers have had to change them for Michelins all over the place. I went to Westside Lexus in Houston and gave the run around so I have sued them for that. I changed to Michelin Primacy tires AND WOW, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! The car does not skid, breaks perfectly, accelerates perfectly without skidding and they have a smo0th ride with 33 PSI. ALL LEXUS OWNERS TO BE, BEWARE, ASK YOUR LEXUS DEALERS TO INSTALL MICHELIN PRIMACY TIRES BEFORE YOU PAY FOR THE CAR. Or you will have to sue them later like I am doing right now. With the Bridgestone tires it is scary driving in rain and the car went sideways in the same curve I take with the BMW 760Li at the same speed, but the BMW has staggered wheels with Michelin Primacys. Now with the Michelin Primacy tires the Lexus performs much better, but now as well as the bimmer, not even close, but I spend $2100.00 on the darn tires and place in the garbage dumpster five brand new Bridgestone tires that are pices of garbage.

Again, LEXUS OWNERS TO BE, DEMAND THE DEALER INSTALL MICHELIN TIRES BEFORE YOU PAY FOR THE CAR!!! If you do not believe me go search for the Lexus Bridgeston tires reviews.

We are schedule in court soon. I printed the hundreds of negative reports of the Bridgestone tires from this Lexus Owners Website, tirerack.com and other places and will bring the information to court. Lexus knows about the Bridgestone tire problem but they rather make a few dollars per car placing cheap tires than assuring their customers get the best traction. Never a Lexus again...

Dr. Cantu

I've said it until I'm blue in the face, but Lexus has been making this nav system...with this lockout for 11 years and MOST manufacturers have a similar lockout. You won't have any grounds for a suit. The navigation works when driving, you just can't type in destinations. You can enter destinations by voice. Just type in your destination before you leave...

I have a BMW 760Li V12 and it is a much better car than this. Drives faster, smother,

Did you drive the Lexus before you bought it?

And I would hope the BMW was all those things because its a V12 vs a V8 and costs about $40,000 more.

[Phil J.]

I would be willing to pay $500 and sign a General Release if Lexus would enable my phone and Nav system while driving. If there is a after market option I would buy it. If you build a user group to approach Lexus I will join it and support it financially.

I notice that over 17,000 people have looked at this posting. I think that is more than any other 460 posting here.

Today I picked up my new 460. I love the car. The young lady who taught me how to use the car told me that 90% of the new buyers she teaches are unhappy with the lockout.

My last 6 cars were Mercedes but each new model spent more time in the shop than the last. Several friends own Lexus and said that they are trouble free so I bought one.

I think the Me/Bz nav and phone system is better but if my Lexus spends less time in the shop I will be happy.

However if the Lexus Phone and Nav system worked like the Me/Bz I think it would be a better and safer car.

Safer because the Me/Bz phone keypad is safer than using my cell phone to dial.

rgrds

philj

[SW03ES]

LOL, I'm not a Lexus dealer...I just simply disagree with you "Dr. Cantu". More car companies disable nav functions when driving than do not, thats a simple fact. If its a big deal to you, by all means spend $50,000 more on a BMW or Mercedes. After all, like you said...its only money...

As for your "lawsuit" you had an opportunity to test drive the car before you bought it, I'd bet money you'd loose any lawsuit. Caveat emptor.

[Phil J.]

Dear LS460

on 4/10/07 you wrote:

I'd like to start a discussion regarding the Lexus LS460 Navigation lock-out and what we, as a group, can do to persuade Lexus that we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system....

I started a new thread focusing on Prestigious Society and their override kit to allow a driver to operate the navigation system and telephone while driving. I refer you to the thread below:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=53767

Thanks

Phil J.

[jeffsstuff]

I've scanned this thread reading a number of complaints including a few from some saying it's the worst car they've ever owned yet they continue to drive it since they're not willing to take the depreciation hit. I've read and seen many rediculous things of late but think this is quite humorous. Nearly everyone of us can afford to do many things in life that most are unable to do and one is to be able to purchase vehicles that are in this category. If I had something that I totally hated, I would not even think twice about the money forfeited in rididng my self of the problem rather than having to wake up everyday and have to deal with it simply over several thousand dollars.

I dare any of you cry babies to show me a vehicle in a similar price range to the LS460 and I'll quickly find a group of whiners much like the ones on this thread that complain about every little thing. Life is short and for those that obviously don't realize that perfection will never be found in an automobile, will just continue to feel that need to share their unhappiness with all.

Standing ovation for you sir! Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

I'm sorry but, by your logic, if I sell you a box marked "Blu Ray Player" and you get home and find out that it only plays movies on thursdays, you wouldn't expect your money back. After all, I sold you a player. You could just eat your loss and go buy another one. You could have simply tried EVERY FEATURE at the store to make sure it worked.

The problem for me and over a thousand others who have complained at www.lexusisnotmymother.com didn't know there was an issue to ask about. We never thought to ask if the system was crippled. Why? For the same reason that we never bothered to ask if we could drive the car on Sundays. We never thought there would be anything so unexpected in that box we bought.

If you don't like listening to us "cry babies", please, do us and yourself a favor and STOP LISTENING. But don't tell us what we should and should not expect from our consumer products. After all, it is attitudes like yours that allow quality and service to keep spiraling down the toilet.

[jeffsstuff]

Get used to it, and its not just Lexus that does it. Sometime soon the DOT will make these lockouts law, and everybody will have to fall in line.

Lexus has been making the same navigation system with the same lockouts since 1998, this is not new. Its heralded as the best in the business by tons of publications too.

Like I said in another thread, I've had this nav system for 4 years and I don't get it. Just set your destination before you leave or pull over. You don't need to be careening down the highway at 85MPH setting destinations anyways. I drive 25k miles a year and use the nav system extensively, it no longer bothers me.

Maybe they will become law someday. Still, at that point consumers won't be tricked into buying something that only works WHEN THE MANUFACTURER FEELS LIKE ALLOWING IT!

[maruma]

...we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how... This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway... or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination is both ludicrous and insulting.

What I want is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it.

So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.

Two words: Mercedes-Benz.

Are you listening, Lexus? We've owned mostly BMWs and Benzes in the past, with a rogue Phaeton thrown in for good measure. AFAIK, none of the German cars impose this punitive approach. As much as my wife likes her LS460L, I will NEVER buy another car that locks out the technology I'm paying for. Both the Phaeton (my wife's car just before the LS460L) and my current (3 weeks old) Mercedes ML63 allow the driver or passenger to use the functions of the telematics (phone, nav, audio, etc.) without restriction. The voice control does NOT make up for this limitation of the Lexus. If Lexus is marketing the LS460L as technologically superior, then I want to see BMW and Mercedes commercials that specifically mention how Lexus treats their customers like 5 year-olds...

One more word: Garmin. They must sell a LOT more GPS units than Lexus sells cars, and ALL of them have the option to defeat the "safety in motion" feature. Toyota's castration of the LS460Ls capacities is absolutely asinine, insulting, and infuriating...

[maruma]

...we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how... This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway... or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination is both ludicrous and insulting.

What I want is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it.

So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.

Two words: Mercedes-Benz.

Are you listening, Lexus? We've owned mostly BMWs and Benzes in the past, with a rogue Phaeton thrown in for good measure. AFAIK, none of the German cars impose this punitive approach. As much as my wife likes her LS460L, I will NEVER buy another car that locks out the technology I'm paying for. Both the Phaeton (my wife's car just before the LS460L) and my current (3 weeks old) Mercedes ML63 allow the driver or passenger to use the functions of the telematics (phone, nav, audio, etc.) without restriction. The voice control does NOT make up for this limitation of the Lexus. If Lexus is marketing the LS460L as technologically superior, then I want to see BMW and Mercedes commercials that specifically mention how Lexus treats their customers like 5 year-olds...

One more word: Garmin. They must sell a LOT more GPS units than Lexus sells cars, and ALL of them have the option to defeat the "safety in motion" feature. Toyota's castration of the LS460Ls capacities is absolutely asinine, insulting, and infuriating...

I bought my LS460 on December 2007. The style, handling and performance is supperb.

The "motion block" on the GPS is UNACCEPTABLE and INFURIATING.

There is no excuse as WHY CAN'T A SECOND PSSAENGER HANDLE THE GPS WHILE THE CAR IS IN MOTION ????

I am willing to join any motion that leads in the elimination of this unacceptable feature that is in my car against wy will.

[SW03ES]

Maybe they will become law someday. Still, at that point consumers won't be tricked into buying something that only works WHEN THE MANUFACTURER FEELS LIKE ALLOWING IT!

Its really industry standard practice, only a handful of automakers hav nav systems without a lockout.

Lexus will never do away with the lockout, so I wouldn't waste your energy or our server space by whining. Simply buy a prestgious society override if it really bothers you that much and be done with it.

[Phil J.]

Steve is right that you can install the prestigious society override and that will allow you use of the nav, the phone, and ML sound system when you are driving. If you do it, you will be glad you did.

[SW03ES]

Prestigious society override = no more whining.

Steve thinks its an excellent product...

[Budhah]

Who else?

Well, LS460L, it would seem to me that there are a lot of current LS430 owners who have become accustomed to being able to take charge of their destiny. Perhaps a piosting on the LS430 forum would give prospective buyers of 460s reason to add their comments and objections. I seriouly doubt if I would have changed my mind on the car, but I sure would have made the dealer acutely aware of my displeasure with the arbitrary lockouts and deletions of things I had enjoyed on my 430.

I was visiting a Dealer in St. Louis, and the salesman told me the biggest complaint on the LS430 was the cup holders.. LOL they were changed on LS460

[Budhah]

Have an open discussion all you want, nobody's trying to stifle your discussion. My opinions however are as relevant and welcome as yours. I'm not the only one on my side either.

If I wanted to "shut down" this discussion I would have shut it down, as in physically locked it out so nobody could post. Or just deleted the whole thing. I have no interest in doing that.

I'm not saying that you aren't having problems with your car, I'm saying that the problems you're having aren't as serious as the issues owners of other marques have, and are issues that you would have noticed had you taken the time to thoroughly evaluate the car before you bought it. Saying you don't like how it rides? Did you even drive it before you paid $75,000 for it?!? The nav lockout? You mean the nav lockout that Lexus has had for a decade that many other manufaturers also have? Again, did you try the system before you bought it? A "ton" of recalls and TSBs? List them.

Perhaps you should have waited for an 08. I would have.

As a fairly new member I am surprised that a moderator is so active on this site. Steve seems to me shows a hard bias against anything anti-Lexus. Stating that the Nav system has the same lockout for 10 years is certainly not true. On the LS430 the Navigation screen had an over ride function. This is not on newer models, and must pay out up to $400 for a work around. While Steve's opinion has merit. He has stated it so many times that he actually is trying to direct the direction of the discussion.. Sorry if you get mad, but as a Moderator, you should show a bit more restraint...

Now that being said, You said that if you wanted to shut down this discussion you could.... Sounds like Lexus " If we want to stop "over rides, we will""

Wonder if I will not get banned?? LOL

[SW03ES]

As a fairly new member I am surprised that a moderator is so active on this site. Steve seems to me shows a hard bias against anything anti-Lexus

Why would you be surprised? Moderators are a volunteer position. It would stand to reason if one were interested enough in the site to volunteer to be a moderator...they would be active. Look through the list of top posters, many are moderators. Thats true on any internet forum because the site's owners recruit well respected and active members to be moderators.

Why else would someone be a moderator? Do you think we get paid or something?

And thats not true. I do like Lexus vehicles a lot but I am also critical about things pertaining to the brand.

What I have a strong bias against is whining...

Stating that the Nav system has the same lockout for 10 years is certainly not true. On the LS430 the Navigation screen had an over ride function. This is not on newer models, and must pay out up to $400 for a work around.

The "override" was never meant to be used by customers to allow inputs while driving. Its only on 04-06 systems (my 03 system has no override) Its in a service menu screen designed for servicing the system by the dealer, and it was just stumbled across by someone. Thats why they did away with it. If you upgrade the software on your 04-06 system..the override goes away.

Lexus navigation systems have ALWAYS had locked out input features while driving, thats a fact.

Most carmakers also lockout the same functions, that too is a fact.

While Steve's opinion has merit. He has stated it so many times that he actually is trying to direct the direction of the discussion.. Sorry if you get mad, but as a Moderator, you should show a bit more restraint...

My opinions and discussions on this site have nothing to do with me being a moderator.

And for the record, nothing that happens on this or any other internet forum makes me mad. I do this for fun. If a time came where this made me mad and detracted from the happiness of my life...I would no longer do it.

What I can't stand is people being self-important and whining instead of taking responsibility for not taking the time to thoroughly research a product before buying it. By the time I bought my car, I had driven dozens of them, knew all the features inside and out. Because thats what smart people do before they plunk down the better part of $100,000 on a vehicle.

All this talk of class action suits and making Lexus deactivate the lockout is simply a waste of time. They aren't going to do it...

Now that being said, You said that if you wanted to shut down this discussion you could.... Sounds like Lexus " If we want to stop "over rides, we will""

Right...don't like it, don't buy the Lexus. Buy one of the two brands of cars that don't lockout nav system functions while driving...BMW or Acura. Everyone else locks out functions.

Don't like posting on a forum where moderators can close and lock discussions? Don't post here...or on ClubLexus...or any other internet site pretty much.

Wonder if I will not get banned?? LOL

Why would you get banned? Have we banned anyone else in this discussion who has disagreed with me?

[Umbobo]

Has anyone determined if there is a code we can punch in (perhaps like to turn off the seatbelt fastened alarm?????) that will override this annoying limitation?

[SW03ES]

No, theres no code that I've ever read anything about. The only way to override it is to buy one of those override kits that have been discussed on here that interrupt the signal from the system's speed sensor so you can input information.

That or use the voice commands...you can input destinations that way too.