Ls460l Last In C&d January Comparo

[mkaresh]

Found comparison at GMInsideNews, which got it from germancarzone.com, which got it from carspin.com.

Scans from GCZ placed more prominently at GMI:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41113

Essentially, they slammed the Lexus for steering, handling, and fun-to-drive. These areas alone totally account for the car's distance behind the second-place Audi, itself a point behind the Mercedes.

Your tastes and priorities may vary from C&D's, which is the point of my take on comparison tests.

[nc211]

I take very little stock in C/D reviews in general. I think it's all a definition of what the owner wants out of his luxury car. It's funny, you build a $50 sporty sedan, and they bark that it's too buzzy, or too harsh. Then you build a ultra luxury sedan, and they bark it's too soft, to wallowish.

I think the beauty is within the eye of the beholder. And I can promise you, that most beholders will find the beauty of their Lexus sitting in their own garage, not sitting in the mechanic's garage.

[dcfish]

I take very little stock in C/D reviews in general. I think it's all a definition of what the owner wants out of his luxury car. It's funny, you build a $50 sporty sedan, and they bark that it's too buzzy, or too harsh. Then you build a ultra luxury sedan, and they bark it's too soft, to wallowish.

I think the beauty is within the eye of the beholder. And I can promise you, that most beholders will find the beauty of their Lexus sitting in their own garage, not sitting in the mechanic's garage.

nc211, I couldn't agree with you more, perfectly stated. ;)

[Rx330driver]

if you look at the points, lexus stays up there with the big guys until driving dynamics...as usual.

i am just very surprised about the jaguar. that is maybe the worst luxury saloon in the world...and is dragging ford into the river

[nc211]

you know what makes me laugh though...even when the ls ranks last, it still runs laps around the competition in sales. I mean, people have been saying Toyota's are boring to drive for a long time...yet they're #1 in the world. So, what does that tell you? Tells me the c/d guys don't amount to a hill of beans, because the market always dictates the desire and satisfaction. I can't recall the last time I saw an LS400/430 sitting on a MB, BMW, Audi, or Jag's lot for sale, as a trade in. But you go to the Lexus dealership, and you'll always find these cars sitting on their used lots, as trade-ins.

I'm suprised at the Jaguar too. My brother has a 94 XJ sedan, with the 4.0 engine, and only 42k miles. He has spent thousands repairing that car, and it still rattles like Flava-Flave's gold teeth at a rap concert.

[jainla]

This is a dumb review. They are not comparing apples to apples here. This happens alot, they order the sport packages on the MB and BMW and then get the all season radials for the Lexus and whine about the lack of grip, etc etc.

The only criticism I can agree with is the lack of steering feel; and that I think the quickness and accuracy somewhat makes up for that. The MB has more grip but its ponderous around town. And even after spending most of this weekend figuring out the iDrive in my friend's new 750Li I still don't like it. Also many of the 'advantages' they gave to the other cars disappear in the real world where we have things like traffic and potholes.

Maybe they really are out to get the LS460? The interior, the fit and finish are still the best in the world; and they rate minimal mention here. This review is like putting 5 minivans into a drifting competition....

Harumph!

:chairshot:

And vis-a-vis the sales question the first month LS460 sales in Japan were NINE TIMES what Lexus had hoped for. I wonder if it does as well here.

[greggebhardt]

Found comparison at GMInsideNews, which got it from germancarzone.com, which got it from carspin.com.

Scans from GCZ placed more prominently at GMI:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41113

Essentially, they slammed the Lexus for steering, handling, and fun-to-drive. These areas alone totally account for the car's distance behind the second-place Audi, itself a point behind the Mercedes.

Your tastes and priorities may vary from C&D's, which is the point of my take on comparison tests.

I feel so sorry for my neighbor who bought a new Jaguar. I asked him where it was and in the 2 months he owned it the Jag spent 5 weeks at the dealer trying to get an engine problem fixed. He, at last got the dealer to take the junk back after going thru the lemon law thing!

Alas, he replaced it with an Audi!!!!! :chairshot:

After two weeks, I was out in the yard when he pulled up his semi-steep driveway and the engine made a real bad grinding noise! :o I ran into the house so he could not hear me laugh! Do not know what happended but he has been driving a Audi loaner from before Thanksgiving! :whistles:

He told me that Lexus wants too much for their cars and the quality is not equal to his Jag!

HA!

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

I blame Lexus for this. THEY are 'selling' the new LS as a 'Performance/Luxury' car - and that's a mistake. AND - I think - completely unnecessary. The LS is a luxury car - period. And there is no need to apologize for that. So I would just stick to emphasizing LUXURY [if I was Lexus] and let potential customers be pleasantly surprised by how well it PERFORMS. There are plenty of people [as we all know] who WANT an extremely reliable LUXURY car. They are not looking for performance - they are looking for solitude. And THAT is where the LS beats them all.

Just my opinion.

Craig!! :)

[AustinGT]

I love C&D and have been a loyal subscriber for 11 years, but placing the LS last against the MB and the Audi really bugs me- while the LS is all about luxury and isolation, that does not mean that it is not thouroughly competant in other areas. I hate the new S-Class, as it is overly computerized inside and looks ridiculous from behind. It is interesting that less than three years ago C&D ranked an Ultra-Lux 04 LS first against the MB, Phaeton, XJ8, 745iL, and A8. Granted the MB has been redesigned and the BMW has a new motor, but the Jag and Audi haven't changed much- I find it hard that the redesigned LS goes from first to last in the face of two new competitors.........oh well, the LS is still the intelligence choice when it comes to luxury cars, and regardless of what the mags say no luxury car offers the value and reliability of the LS.

[bartkat]

The S-Klasse is possibly the best car ever made.

The Fit+Finish, Interior Materials, Ergonomics and design is just incredible.

I knew it would win.

The LS460 still isnt as good as the rest of the big Euro marques Cars.

Even the XJ.

__________________

Current Cars:

2006 VW Jetta Wagon GLS TDI, Avg: 54.5 MPG

2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited X 4x4, Avg: 18.9 MPG

Previous Cars:

2001 Ford F-150 Supercab FX4

2000 VW Golf 2-DR 2.0L I4

1994 Nissan Pick-Up 2x4

1994 VW GTI VR6

1992 Ford Tempo GLS

1989 Ford Bronco 4x4

1988 Buick Electra Wagon

1966 Chevy Impala SS 350

Oh the irony of it all. :D

[stuart8181]

if you look at the points, lexus stays up there with the big guys until driving dynamics...as usual.

i am just very surprised about the jaguar. that is maybe the worst luxury saloon in the world...and is dragging ford into the river

I have both Jaguar and Lexus. No contest Jag wins

[SW03ES]

Having driven Jags and driven Lexus, Jags have more style but the Lexus is superior in every other way.

[stuart8181]

I take very little stock in C/D reviews in general. I think it's all a definition of what the owner wants out of his luxury car. It's funny, you build a $50 sporty sedan, and they bark that it's too buzzy, or too harsh. Then you build a ultra luxury sedan, and they bark it's too soft, to wallowish.

I think the beauty is within the eye of the beholder. And I can promise you, that most beholders will find the beauty of their Lexus sitting in their own garage, not sitting in the mechanic's garage.

nc211, I couldn't agree with you more, perfectly stated. ;)

Having both a Jaguar and a Lexus I can state that there is no contest. The Jag is far superior in all aspects of driving. Gimmicks and toys are Toyota's gig.

[SW03ES]

Having both a Jaguar and a Lexus I can state that there is no contest. The Jag is far superior in all aspects of driving. Gimmicks and toys are Toyota's gig.

I completely disagree, I've driven Jags plenty of times. Also the style is a touch too froofy for me. I have absolutely zero interest in having a Jag, in fact its one of the few makes of car I positively would never want to own.

BTW, have you driven an LS460? My guess is your experience with the ES (an entry level Lexus) is the extent of your experience with Lexus. The ES is nice, but its no LS.

[jzz30]

i agree 2 completely different class of cars. thats like comparing the XJ8 to a X-type. which its the obvious winner here? considering that the ES and the x-type are in the same class and or price range which is the better car? you would need to compare the XJ to the LS like SW03S says.

[SW03ES]

i agree 2 completely different class of cars. thats like comparing the XJ8 to a X-type. which its the obvious winner here?

The ES, no question. I drove the X Type extensively before I got mine and its a rattletrap of a car, small, uncomfortable, cheap materials.

[ralteredstates]

I have had the LS460 since the first week it came out. Love it. C&D compared it to a MB that, equipted the same is $24-25,000 more!! That means that a 10,000 KIA can be compared to a 35,000 Acura TL (had one and it was fun). Where is the logic in that? The Lexus is what it is, a superbly comfortable car and drives like silk. When I want to blast around corners I drive my Porsche Boxster which will out handle the MB any time. Again, another ridiculous comparison. I have a Ford F350 crewcab that has far more room inside and can carry 2 tons of stuff in the back. Bet MB can't do that! (Again...another ridiculous comparison). What I am getting at is the LS is not a direct comparison to the MB or the BMW. Before the LS I drove a 740i which I LOVED but was sick of bringing it to the stealer. At 55,000 miles, the tranny needed to be replaced (fortunately under certified warrantee) and I desided to unload the mechanics wet dream. I was sorry to see the BMW go since it WAS a drivers car and was the model before iDrive screwed up the inside and Bangle screwed up the outside. My biggest complaint is that Lexus is still treating their owners like children and not allowing access to the phone keyboard or most navigation functions when the car is moving. BMW allows you to mess with whatever all the way over the cliff. Anyone find the hack for the 07 LS yet?? Other than that, the LS is wonderful. I kept the $25,000 and will continue to restore my 4th(!!!) car...a 76 Datsun 280Z which is 95% restored. Much more fun than the new MB! As far a Jag is concerned...love the look...would only get a 1970's XK8. Now if someone wants to give me a new Bentley Continental....

[Rx330driver]

i dont see much of a difference in styling between that 1970's XK8 and the 2007 version.

technically, everything you said was right, how the LS is not meant to be a drivers car. however, it IS being sold directly against BMW and MB and the same buyers market. it just depends what that buyer is looking for.

[ralteredstates]

i dont see much of a difference in styling between that 1970's XK8 and the 2007 version.

technically, everything you said was right, how the LS is not meant to be a drivers car. however, it IS being sold directly against BMW and MB and the same buyers market. it just depends what that buyer is looking for.

I honestly don't see that. Where is the LS being sold directly against BMW and MB other than in the magazine reviews? Lexus can't help that. A better comparison would be between the LS and the Bentley or the Rolls. Is it just inevitable that the comparisons are made because they are all flagship models? How would Lexus stop these comparisons? Do LS buyers care how many G's their cars can pull in a turn? I know I don't (but would love to know that for my Boxster). I also beg to differ in saying the LS isn't a drivers car. I enjoy very much driving it...in fact I enjoy it as much as any of my other cars or truck. Just in a different way. The truck feels like a beast. The Porsche feels like a panther and the LS feels like a silky carpet ride. I've had the "drivers car" (the BMW) and enjoyed it as much as the next person. That doesn't take anything away from my enjoyment of driving the LS. I'll take the LS for a 1000mile joy ride (and love it) before any other car that I have mentioned before. At the end of the ride, my butt will not say "ouch!!".

[Rx330driver]

alright, lets see if i cant straighten my points out.

A better comparison would be between the LS and the Bentley or the Rolls

that certainly would not be a fair comparison

Do LS buyers care how many G's their cars can pull in a turn

Nope, and neither do people who buy S classes

im sure its a great drivers car, now as a 2007 model, but lexus has always focused more on luxury. The reason why they had to add 100 more horses to their new flagship was to keep up with MB and BMW. I think the LS is pitted against other flagships in this segment

[ralteredstates]

alright, lets see if i cant straighten my points out.

A better comparison would be between the LS and the Bentley or the Rolls

that certainly would not be a fair comparison

Do LS buyers care how many G's their cars can pull in a turn

Nope, and neither do people who buy S classes

I think more S class buyers do care about how fast they can corner. I'm not disagreeing with you just tired of the LS comparisons with cars that I think are not comparable. The Bentley or Rolls would be closer IMHO than the MB, not in price, but in driving aesthetics. Another car that is always poorly placed in comparisons is the RL. No car comes close to it in electronics (I mean NO car) and as an AWD car, it really is in a class by itself at $45,000 fully equipted. Acura has done a worse job than even Lexus in its advertising. The MB and the BMW are truly the only 2 that can be compared directly. The Lexus is in its own class.

[SW03ES]

I disagree. The S class is actually a very heavy and very smooth riding sedan. It drives a lot like the LS. What you have to think about is what a buyer is going to cross-shop when they're looking at an LS. Its not a Rolls or Bentley, you could buy a couple LS460s for what they cost. Its going to be the S class and the 7 series, alongside the Jag XJ, Cadillac Deville, Audi A8. The LS is definately designed to compete with the S class and the 7, and the LS460 is the sportiest LS yet. The review is just a couple people's opinion, since the LS has beat the 7 and the S and everything else several times before when it was LESS sporty, it just depends on the editors mood.

Another car that is always poorly placed in comparisons is the RL. No car comes close to it in electronics (I mean NO car)

This is not true. Name a feature the RL has that can't be found in any other car? The RL is nothing special.

Acura has done a worse job than even Lexus in its advertising.

I think Lexus has always done a teriffic job advertising. They grew to be the #1 luxury brand in the US and built prestige along the lines of Benz and BMW (saying both of which have more history is beyond an understatement) in almost no time flat after its inception in 1990. To say they do a poor job advertising and marketing is vastly incorrect.

The MB and the BMW are truly the only 2 that can be compared directly. The Lexus is in its own class.

I love the LS, I think its one of the best vehicles on the road and one of the best vehicles to own over time, but this is just not true. The S class, 7 series, XJ, and A8 are all great vehicles. Each of them is unique, and each of them appeals to a different buyer. They do all offer very real competition to the LS, in fact just now with the long wheelbase can the LS really be considered in the same league as these vehicles.

[Rx330driver]

Cadillac Deville

oh you crack me up! :P

[jzz30]

i agree 2 completely different class of cars. thats like comparing the XJ8 to a X-type. which its the obvious winner here?

The ES, no question. I drove the X Type extensively before I got mine and its a rattletrap of a car, small, uncomfortable, cheap materials.

the X-type is just a ford taurus with a different grill and leather :P

on another note the RL has SH-AWD which can not be found on another car (i think...) besides the RDX.

you cant spin that car out! its cool! but not at the same time because its no fun!

[SW03ES]

Cadillac Deville

oh you crack me up! :P

LOL, you caught it ;)

But remember, none of this matters because Buick makes the best car on the road :D