The Leather Story...

[LexKid630]

I don't know if you all know the story but the leather on the seats in my 03 rx300 is wearing away very badly... It "may" have been caused by the products i used to clean them, but they don't know that! ;)

So i wrote them an e-mail stating my problem (the only other problem is that i told them i only needed the seat "bottoms" replaced, not the tops as well). Within an hour of the e-mail, i received a phone call. The woman on the other end (i didn't ask who it was) asked me for a date to which the leather could be "taken care of", so i made the apt. for today.

So today i took the car down there to find that the "head president" of the dealer or whatever, wasn't there! So after 10 minutes of waiting, another guy came out to take a look at it. This is a shortened version of our ONE HOUR LONG back & forth conversation!

Guy: Who did you speak to, who told you we would take care of this?

Me: I wrote you guys a letter and received a phone call within an hour stating it would be "taken care of".

Guy: Do you remember the name of the person you spoke to?

Me: Umm no, it was a woman though...

Guy: She was someone from corporate...She SHOULD have told you to "bring it down" to have ME "look at it"..I am the person who "decides" if we will take care of it for you...

Me: Well she said it would be taken care of!

This is where the guy looked at the leather...

Guy: Have you ever conditioned this leather?

Me: Yes actually, i used some of YOUR conditioner a few times; it just got worse.

It was here when he told me that he "thought" it was just "normal wear"... So i asked him if we could go look at another rx300 on the lot to see if it was showing the same peeling, cracking & fading mine are...

Guy: Oh i don't think we have any rx300's on the lot.

Me: Well have you ever seen this much wear on an rx300 before? I mean, is this a known defect on the rx300?

Guy: No, actually you're the first rx300 with this problem!

Me: So how can this be normal wear if I'm the only one?? ( i thought this was a great come-back Q!!) :)

Guy: (face getting red) Ok, how about if we replace both seat bottoms? But i don't think the seat tops are that bad...

Me: Look at the tops, they're showing the same symptoms! (i pointed to the irritated areas on the tops)

Guy: How about if we see how much it would cost to replace both, then we can possibly work out a deal?

Me: FINE

After ten munutes of small talk about some of the new models coming out (to which i knew more about than he did)...another man came back with the prices etc. for new leather...

Guy: Wow, 3,xxx dollars... How about if we replaced both the bottoms and the tops, and you payed for the labor?

Me: No. I'm not paying for labor.

Guy: I just want you to know this is out of "good will" since the car is out of the 36,000mi whatever warranty..

Me: Yes i am aware of that, but i expect much more from Lexus! I have been buying Lexus' since 1990 i expect more!

Guy: I'm sorry we can't pay for the labor as well... What we can do is replace the bottoms for you...That's it.

Bottom line, the guy wouldn't bite! I can't believe it! So now the thing's with them & i have some navi-lacking cigarette smoke-smelling 6,000 mi es350 Now the bottoms will look brand new, and the tops will be all yellow and look like crap!

What can i do to get them to replace the tops as well?? The woman i spoke to over the phone stated the leather would be "taken care of"... The guy at the dealer today said the woman i spoke to over the phone was from corporate? What does this mean? LOL

Is there someone else i can write/talk to that has a higher power? The guy was a total jerk too...

In the original-original e-mail i sent them, i just asked, "Do you know of any good upholstery shops?" They e-mailed me back stating they had a guy on site & asked if it was a wrip or coffee stain etc...

Then i sent them a second e-mail telling them i would need to re-upholster the bottoms (only) b/c they are showing these symptoms etc. etc... Then i went on and on about how disappointed i was about lexus quality...Then my last paragraph asked, "this wouldn't by any chance be covered under warranty, would it? Because that would show the respect and good service i would & have received from Lexus"

Within the hour i received that phone call from that woman (didn't last more than a minute)... she just asked, what time can we "take care of that leather" for you" ...

The thing is, the tops aren't "as bad" as the bottoms but still look like crap... I wouldn't "pay" to have them re-done but they really "need" to be... so who can i talk to to get more results? The guy i spoke to today wasn't the "head president"; not really sure who he was...

Thanks for your help

[denslexusgx470]

technically you are "cheating" them because you didn't take care of the leather properly, and it is out of warranty so they are totally correct in their stance. Just go out and buy some seat covers and you won't even remember that your leather is worn out. ;) I know of someone that bought a new Hybrid Highlander back in May and she got seat covers on top of her leather seats! (which I thought was absurd because seat covers only helps if you have cloth seats). ;)

[LexKid630]

Well they don't know that LOL They think it's a fault-in-the-leather-issue & i wanna keep them under that impression :whistles:

What if i went to another Lexus dealer? The guy i was speaking with today sounded like he could make anything up...It seemed like he could do whatever he wanted. Maybe the pres. of another Lexus dealer is nicer? LOL i've bought my cars from 3 Lexus dealers they all know me...

Jeesh i don't know...

[lenore]

It weird, toyota offered to put leather in my daughters Sequoia for $1500 on all the seats. Where the &*()_)+$$$ does LExus get off charging so much? I will tell you LEXKID, that is typical of LEXUS Service when the chips are down. But honestly, My wifes RX300 leather is showing some wear, (1999) but cleaning and conditioning with Amorall leather care over the years has kept them fairly nice. The Sponge eraser has taken out any bad dirt. Her car is parked in the sun everyday at work. But your experience is typical when compared with my service at the local dealerships. Good luck.

[LexKid630]

This leather is beyond bad; the vinly on the leather has a million little cracks EVERYWHERE, and all the edges are all black now... It looks 20 years old... The leather is a yellow-ish color now; it's just terrible. I must have been caused by the crap i used to clean it :(

I just want it fixed...

:cries:

[denslexusgx470]

For one thing, it's considered "wear and tear" and the dealer will think that you didn't take good care of it. You can't get away with everything! Yes they may believe you but they will definitely not budge in. For one thing, as i mentioned, YOU ARE OUT OF WARRANTY so anything beyond that is just useless. Plus, as you did mention, it is a $3k+ thing, so definitely it won't fly with the dealers. I remember my dad broke the coat hanger in my GX, and the dealer replaced it (well it was in warranty) for free BUT that was OUR fault, and not a defective part. IT was a cheap thing so dealer will replace it w/o any questions.

Go ahead and try other dealers (cuz no one can really stop you) but they will say the same. I mentioned here before that my dealer scratched up my rim, but it took me forever to get the dealer to retouch my rim. It wasnt a regular scratch, but a "graffiti" like lettering (an L and F on my left front rim) but at first they wouldn't budge in. Definitely, not my fault because i dont write on my rims!

[bartkat]

Send another email and ask the woman to call you again and find out who she is, tell her your story.

[blake918]

In addition to the warranty being expired, this is something that is just going to wear out--leather does that, especially with 4 years and 70k under its belt. I'd call it a success if you got them to replace any of the leather for free. If your car had 30k miles you might have a better case, but I think you did pretty good considering the circumstances.

[LexKid630]

Send another email and ask the woman to call you again and find out who she is, tell her your story.

Who should i e-mail though? The other 2 e-mails i sent were to my dealer. I got a response back from them after my second e-mail telling me they were directing my e-mail to some manager somewhere?

The last thing i want to do, is accidently send an e-mail to the guy i talked to today :(

Thanks for your help everyone!

[93LSOwner]

The last thing i want to do, is accidently send an e-mail to the guy i talked to today :(

What if he is reading this on LOC. :whistles:

[Rx330driver]

i have mixed feelings. I agree with den, yo uare "cheating" them because your car is out of warranty is IMO is not considered wear and tear. on the other hand, nobody should be treated that way in any dealership, especially from lexus. I would visit another dealer and see what they say.

If it was my car, i would be giggling on my way out if they had agreed to change the bottom part for free and i jsut pay for labor. sounds like you are getting the better end. But if you want to have it your way all the way, contact lexus corp and report the dealer/person

[bartkat]

Send another email and ask the woman to call you again and find out who she is, tell her your story.

Who should i e-mail though? The other 2 e-mails i sent were to my dealer. I got a response back from them after my second e-mail telling me they were directing my e-mail to some manager somewhere?

The last thing i want to do, is accidently send an e-mail to the guy i talked to today :(

Thanks for your help everyone!

So i wrote them an e-mail stating my problem (the only other problem is that i told them i only needed the seat "bottoms" replaced, not the tops as well). Within an hour of the e-mail, i received a phone call. The woman on the other end (i didn't ask who it was) asked me for a date to which the leather could be "taken care of", so i made the apt. for today.

[SW03ES]

Personally I would have taken the "we'll supply the leather you pay the labor" deal. The leather covers are really expensive. Even if they charged you 4 hours labor, thats all new front seats for $400, great deal.

You admitted to using products on the leather that almost certainly could have contributed to this issue (the fabric softener), and lied to him about only having used their conditioner. I think you're being unreasonable.

As to Lenore's rant, how can a dealer offering to supply over $1500 in leather for free on a 4 year old truck who'se owner destroyed the leather himself be considered "this is how their service is when the chips are down". Thats a great deal.

[lenore]

I was just saying that Toyota offered to replace all of the seats (cloth) with leather for 1500 . That is cheap. Lexus just continues to gouge the public with high prices.

[93LSOwner]

I was just saying that Toyota offered to replace all of the seats (cloth) with leather for 1500 . That is cheap. Lexus just continues to gouge the public with high prices.

The leather in Lexus vehicles are better quality in my opinion. Furthermore, Lexus is the LUXURY branch of Toyota. What do you expect?

[SW03ES]

I was just saying that Toyota offered to replace all of the seats (cloth) with leather for 1500 . That is cheap. Lexus just continues to gouge the public with high prices.

Thats aftermarket leather, there are many aftermarket leather outfitters Toyota dealers routinely use. Lexus would be using OEM Lexus leather covers which are of course going to be more expensive. You can't expect aftermarket to fit like OEM.

Asking more for OEM parts than aftermarket is not gouging, charging 2X for genuine OEM parts vs Aftermarket is hardly gouging, its a fact of how the automotive industry works.

I defy you to find me one OEM component that costs less than an aftermarket component for any make of vehicle, I mean PARTS. Find me a hood, seat, dashboard, windshield. OEM ALWAYS costs more, its just a fact. Ever priced a windshield replacement on ANY car with OEM glass vs aftermarket? 300% more, at least. Recaro racing seats cost less than OEM seats. OEM parts just cost more, they fit better, last longer, and incorporate into the vehicle's warranty. Thats why insurance companies have been trying to get out of having to pay for OEM parts to settle claims for decades, and the fact that OEM parts are better and worth it is why the Supreme Court of the United States made it illegal for them to do so.

I can source what those OEM Leather covers cost wholesale right now, in fact I already did it for LexKid. Just the Leather, WHOLESALE is $606 per seat for the front. Thats $1200, factor in the dealers typical 75-100% markup on parts you're at $2400, plus say 3 hours labor to remove the old covers and install the new ones at $100 an hour you're at $2700. So if they're telling him they'll pay $1200 wholesale for the leather, waive their $1200 profit on the parts and all they ask him in return is to pay $300 to install them, on a car thats out of warranty for damage HE caused, thats an AMAZING offer and EXTREMELY big of them. Its costing the dealer $900 in real funds and $1200 in opportunity costs to fix his carelessness. The dealer decided "This guy is a pretty good customer, if he will come a little towards me I'll put my neck out and help him". He wouldn't do that, so the manager made a business decision to walk away. It is not profitable to continue to go out of your way for a customer who is unreasonable and impossible to please. I fire clients all the time when they start to be difficult, refuse to listen to me, or refuse to do the things they need to do to get where they need to be. The thing I fire clients IMMEDIATELY over is trying to get me to pay for things that I have no responsibility to pay for. This dealer has no responsibility to pay for LexKid's mistake.

Didn't anyone ever teach you theres no such thing as a free lunch? Lexus is in BUSINESS, the dealer is in BUSINESS. They sell a product at a price that the market will allow. If they were overcharging the market would correct them in the form of reduced business. Since Lexus is the best selling luxury brand in the US and has one of the highest return purchase rates in the industry, thats not happening.

Don't blame Rolex for selling $30,000 watches when Seiko sells watches that look the same for $200, don't blame Starbucks for selling a $5 cup of coffee Dunkin Donuts sells for $.75, and don't blame Lexus for charging more to redo leather seats than a small time leather seat cover company run off the internet. Thats how a free economy works. Don't like it? Talk with your wallet and don't buy a luxury car next time, you're obviously not ready for it.

[lenore]

I fully understand Lexus is in business for a profit, however, if toyota sells a oil filter for $4.99 and Lexus sells the same filter (part number) for $10.49 that is rediculous. I can take my RX300 to have the timing belt and waterpump to Lexus and get it for $1100 or to Toyota Dealership for $550. What is that? I respect business practices for profit, but not gouging. Yes you are right, LexKid should probably not be given a break at the dealership on the seats. It is like people who would fraud insurance companies, but given that Lexus makes such a huge markup, a break once in awhile would be nice. Dont get me wrong, I realize it is a Luxuary car, and appreciate the product (except the RX300 transmissions) I would love to buy a LS but my wife loves her SUV. (RX300) . But I really wonder if the Leather would come from OEM or a aftermarket when it comes to every dealership. They are just like all AMerican companies, looing for max profits.

[SW03ES]

Again, Starbucks sells coffee for $5, Dunkin Donuts sells it for $.75, why is that fair?

Its called packaging, Starbucks packages their coffee as an experience, Lexus packages their service and parts as an experience. They charge what people will pay, people who own an expensive Lexus (a luxury item)are more apt to pay more for something that someone who owns a midmodel Toyota (an economy item). Thats basic business economics.

If you don't want to pay it, good for you order the parts online from one of the MANY wholesalers or get them from a Toyota dealer. Don't accuse Lexus of gouging people who are willing to pay the prices they charge. Me? I get most parts online, but I'm happy to pay Lexus their service fees because I enjoy the experience. They're not gouging me.

But I really wonder if the Leather would come from OEM or a aftermarket when it comes to every dealership.

Its not OEM, almost all mainstream car dealers contract with companies for things like leather, rear seat DVD players, wood kits, stuff like that. They're aftermarket companies like Katzskin.

They are just like all AMerican companies, looing for max profits.

Every business is in business for max profit. Why do you work? You work because you get paid. If they stopped paying you would you still work? No. Companies are no different.

[LexKid630]

They finsihed today. They replaced the leather on the bottoms (new) and "refinished" the tops to make them match. The color matches perfectly now and the shine is gone. I'm perfectly satisfied :)

Thanks guys!

[SW03ES]

Great!