Insulted On Trade In Value

bobstoc · January 26, 2006

I know many of you will think I'm crazy for even thinking about trading my gs430. But, I've had my eye on the new Mustang GT for a while and I finally found a black 5sp GT loaded. The car flies. When it came down to evaluating my car, the dealership quoted me $18,000 (2001 Gs430 - black, nav, levinson 60k miles). This obviously killed the deal and I walked away.

First: Am I nuts for considering trading a lexus for a ford? Second: Are they nuts thinking my car is worth only 18K?

ZINFANDEL22 · January 26, 2006

You buy what floats your boat but as far as worth go to kbb.com or autotrader.com and punch up you cars info and only punch avg. nother more and that will be top trade in value they will give you. :cheers:

lenore · January 26, 2006

If you want more bang for your buck, sell your car yourself, you will get more and then use that money for your deal.

knmaynard · January 26, 2006

Depends on mileage, but you should get more than that, for sure. Bet the GT is a lot of fun.

The GT isn't much faster than the 430, by the way. The GT does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, versus 5.8 with the much heavier and carrying much more luxury GS 430. GS would smoke a base Mustang. I've had the pleasure of smoking several kids in "sport cars" like eclipses, mustangs, (camaro's are the worst: F-body drivers are always up for a race), and I've yet to lose. I know my car isn't a sport car, and I know there are faster, juiced up cars than mine, but going up against all-stock competition it's among the quickest, which surprises most people.

GT would be a lot of fun to drive, for sure, especially the manual. My plans still include getting a 67 Elanor one day (cloned, but who cares).

lexus411 · January 26, 2006

This is a print out of Galves that the dealer probably used. Your overall condition plays a big part also. Any accidents or repainted panels? But $18 k from a non Lexus dealer is on par. From a Lexus dealer the value may value by about $1500. Private value on the car should be pretty strong.

..:: VEHICLE

2001 LEXUS GS 430

..:: DESCRIPTION

Engine Type: V8

Body Style: 4 DOOR SEDAN

Vincode: [bL6]

Standard Features: DUAL ZONE AUTOMATIC AC STD

LEATHER STD

POWER WINDOWS STD

SIDE ABG STD

Base Price: @ 48,000 miles 19,400

Mileage: 60,000

..:: ADDS & DEDUCTS

ADD: LEVINSON AUDIO + 300

ADD: NAVIGATION + 700

As Equipped Price 20,400

Mileage Adjustment -2,325

GALVES VALUE 18,075

..:: COMMENTS

TurboGS300 · January 26, 2006

Yes, you're going from most reliable to least reliable <_< Ford and chevy are the worst cars you can buy.

dcfish · January 26, 2006

I concur.

bartkat · January 26, 2006

Two reasons

You're trading off brand and you're trading down. You can't expect a great trade in that way.

new big400 · January 26, 2006

If you think the trade in on your 430 is bad wait until you try to trade a stang.

droppedlexus · January 26, 2006

I live in Philadelphia, I will buy it for $19500.00

LEXIRX330 · January 26, 2006

YOU THINK!

Fixed Or Repaired Daily

Found On Road Dead

Had Mustang Tranny went up in no time. Yes I drove it HARD...Had a Ranger (problems...problems...) and a Probe when I was 16 that was not much better. HAD 3 that's enough for me. Have had great luck with Toyota's and resale is great. I have told my wife that my old97 Jeep (have spent quite a bit on that too!) will be the last American made Vehicle that I own...unless things really change. B)

JIBBBY · January 26, 2006

I smoked a GT mustang in my modified 1992 SC400 about a month ago, they are fast but not that fast......If your going to buy a sports car and want juice, go with a new vette if you must go domestic, those are fast and look nicer too but more $$$...

I cannot pass a vette 0-60 but a new mustang GT no problem.....I hear the new Pontiac GTO has 400hp and does 0-60 in under 5 seconds, that may be a more affordable option. The new Cadilac and also the new Jeep Grand Cherokee both due 0-60 in under five seconds. In fact this Jeep Grand Cherokee that is powered by the Hemi, will do it in the rain via AWD......It's scary to think that I might get used racing a stock Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV... Unbelievable....man they are making these newer production cars fast these days......Sick....

Those mustangs I would pass on.....Just my opinion...

SRK · January 27, 2006

Exactly right! I traded my 94 Camaro Z-28 on the GS400 and by jaysus I left that Lexus dealership hurting in places I never knew I had! Yikes.

But I made the right choice. No regrets, and no more GM (or any domestic) products in my driveway ever again!

Lexusfreak · January 27, 2006

For Ford, I agree.........for Chevy, it depends on what specific model were talking about. ;) :whistles:

But having said that, to answer the original 2 questions.....yes & yes. B)

:cheers:

youngmd · January 27, 2006

Wholesale prices are always low, i don't know why we as a public accept this wholesale vs. retail price gouging when it comes automobiles. They buy it from you for the wholesale price then mark it up 10-15K to charge the retail price to someone else...its ludicrous

Lexusfreak · January 28, 2006

10 - 15k? :blink: Wow....where are you shopping for cars? :huh: :whistles:

:cheers:

droppedlexus · January 28, 2006

still got $19500 if your looking to sell

bobstoc · January 28, 2006

Hey guys, thanks for your responses and input. I guess what really bothers me about "trade-in value" is that the dealership looks to sell to a wholesaler - which translates into the dealer trying to make a buck on the car (500-1000) and then the wholesaler looks to make a deal on his end (500-1000). In the end, I get boned at least $2000 on the assessed value.

What's the point of Kelly Blue Book and NADA if they aren't even close to the offered trade-in value. (Of course, there is "Galves" but I always equate their values to a kick in the balls).

P.S. droppedluxus: Thank you for offer, but I think I'll just hang onto it for now.

lexus411 · January 28, 2006

look at it any way you want. The galves value is based on actual auction sales. Its is the most current data. You always have the option to sell the car yourself. KBB and Edmunds are consumer sites with inflated values.

ArmyofOne · January 29, 2006

i hate it when people make ignorant statements... :blink: :rolleyes:

for every example of a ford or a chevy having serious issues, i can show you a toyota that has had an issue as well.

im not convinced (and im a mechanic) that any one car is any more or less reliable. i cant believe that my family has been just lucky with 5 fords gone through us.

1992 Ford Explorer-450K (i will admit, i only had it for a few months, but it never gave me any trouble, and didnt burn any oil, had original engine and tranny, no i didnt put all those miles on it)

1995 Ford Contour-384,991 miles. i totalled it (hit a dodge ram). only problem recorded was 1 clutch at 270K. the stock one lasted that long. never any other issues. and yes my dad put 150K on it, and i put the rest.

2002 Ford F150-45K and yet to have an issue

2002 Ford Escort ZX2 (my current DD)-70K and not an issue yet, other than normal wear.

1995 FOrd Ranger, 130K never had a problem, its my brothers.

TurboGS300 · January 29, 2006

So do I, so you really need to stop making them escort boy :lol:

ArmyofOne · January 29, 2006

Nice...you know how many Lexus/Toyota cars I have been under the hood of? You need to pull your head out of your Fourth point of contact before you get this thread locked. You got something to say to me, do it via PM's. I have been working on cars since before I could see over the hood. Your knowledge is based off of other peoples experience and what magazines and news tells you, I do and will continue to, make my desicisions based off of personal experience.

In fact, the last time I owned a lexus, I went off of what other people said "Oh its 15 years old? Sure it will have its problems, but will be largely trouble free" was the basic jist...$5,000 and 4 months later... :rolleyes:

I was rebuilding engines when I was 10. im 21 now. 11 years of rebuilding engines, and about 14 years of working on cars.

Better think before you speak next time.

A class act you are...

oh and FWIW, I dont exactly drive easy, so thats not the reason...

SRK · January 29, 2006

All cars break. That's a fact. The other facts are the statistics on repair during ownership established by large number surveys, and those point to Toyota and Lexus as the most reliable. It doens't mean they don't break, only that they break, on average, less often.

I am 51 years old, and have been working on cars for thirty-five years. I remember when the domestics were good, on average, and inexpensive to fix, on average. I also remember the rise of the Japanese brands, when Datsun 510's were brand new.

I have owned a few domestics. After the Camaro LT-1 debacle, I will never own another. Cruise the Z28 board and see what those owners endure because of a lack of proper engineering. Yes those cars are fun, and run well when they run. But the intrinsic designed-in flaws are overwhelming.

Talk to a Ford tech about the new pickups. The cabs must be removed to do engine and trans work, and they need to do engine and trans work routinely. The Ford Tech website makes clear their efforts at a class action to increase the flat rate to work on the things.

GM will be surpassed by Toyota this year, or next, in total sales worldwide. Ford and Chrysler have been already. The reasons are clear.

I have owned the GM Turbo 400 and the GM 4L60E transmissions. If the 4L60E is evidence of their technical expertise, they deserve to lose $4.8 billion this year, and to be passed by Toyota.

I have experienced a Cirrus toast its transmission, in light duty service, at 30,000 miles. A bill for $2000.00 followed, out of warranty. My father-in-law will never have another.

Ford had to stop production of the Cobra V-8s a few years ago in order to fix the previous years production. And it was the government that forced them to do so. A whole year of production, cancelled.

If it wasn't for European sales, Ford would have suffered a loss this year too, on the basis of North American sales only.

I have no sympathy for the big three anymore. I used to. I changed my mind.

ArmyofOne · January 29, 2006

I never said Toyota wasnt one of the most reliable brands on the road, thats the reason my mother drives a camry, but I see no evidence to see why one cant make a Ford last as long as a 'Yota with maintenance. I have done it. I guess it has alot to do with the fact that I dont buy domestics with auto tranny's, cause I'll give you that one, the big 3 cant design an Auto tranny (especially for their FWD's) for *BLEEP*.

You can get flaws in any car, my dads best friend bought an 89 Toyota pickup in 1990. Brand new, between 1990 and 1994, 4 trannies, 3 rear ends, a transfer case, and an engine. It was what became the Tacoma, with a 4 cylinder. As such he will never own another Toyota, so there are 2 sides to the coin.

TurboGS300 · January 29, 2006

You're correct it was an ignorant statement! :blushing: I and every magazine, report, artice and person who contributed in surveys that said ford and chevy are the worst cars should have consulted you before that vote was cast. Your mature and logical facts have shown me the error of my ways. Your escort is the cherry on top of the cake and should be the driving force behind all fords new ads and you as an "army of one" owe it to america and the world to educate everyone, as you've educated me that because your escort has given you no problems then Ford must be the greatest automaker on earth. Like my mazda mx6 that I bought new in 94 made by ford and has given me 0 problems because I meticulously maintain it myself. Although many others who bought the MX6 had distrubutor failures and left the owners stranded, hey but not mine, so it must not count. Maybe with your vigilence ford won't have to close it's Explorer plant because of decline in customer sales of the explorer line and they won't have to move to mexico, like GM already did. You will be the one to turn around the Ford line, you could be the what Lee Iococa was to Chrysler. Go forth and tell everyone young man, your future awaits. Then come back in 15 years and talk to me once you have some experience and knowledge in the big oval thing on top of your shoulders, that is if you can find any room in there for it. While you're at it why don't you get a little more worked up over what someone says about a POS car, keyboard warrior. Since that must be your only enjoyment in life. Get a life and a girlfriend, your car doesn't count. :lol:

Oh and I found this just for you. There's plenty more where this came from. Aren't I sweet? :D

General Motors Corp. and Hyundai Motor Co. did surprisingly well in annual rankings by Consumer Reports magazine, joining perennial favorites Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. The big losers: Ford Motor Co. and Mercedes-Benz, the luxury brand of DaimlerChrysler AG.

Toyota, including the Toyota and Lexus brands, had 20 vehicles recommended by Consumer Reports out of 25 models rated. Honda, including the Acura brand, earned recommended ratings for 10 out of 14 models evaluated. GM placed 13 models on the magazine's recommended list out of 48 evaluated, its best showing to date.

Consumer Reports , which has influenced car buyers for decades, recommended just five Ford vehicles -- including two from its Volvo unit -- out of 32 evaluated. The magazine's editors said they have seen a steady decline in the number of recommended Ford vehicles since 1999.

"It's all reliability that brings them down," said David Champion, head of the magazine's auto-test facility, who noted Ford's showing was the worst since he joined the magazine in 1997. Meanwhile, Mercedes received no recommendations and its reliability was third worst of all the brands. Mr. Champion said that while DaimlerChrysler seems to be improving reliability at Chrysler, it has "left their own shop bare." Often reliability issues involve power equipment such as windows, locks and seats as well as electrical problems. European auto makers generally aren't keeping pace with the reliability improvements of the domestic and Japanese brands, he added.

One of the big turnaround stories has been Hyundai. Mr. Champion said the South Korean auto maker had been one of the worst in the survey a decade ago. During the past three years, its reliability has continued to improve and its 2002 model-year vehicles were tied with those of Honda for second place in reliability.

The magazine, now in its 50th year of rating automobiles, holds remarkable sway over consumer purchasing decisions. Many buyers insist on checking with the magazine before buying a vehicle. Nearly 10% of buyers a month away from purchasing a vehicle use it as their primary source of information, second only to advice of a friend or relative, at 14%, according to CNW Marketing Research. "There is probably nothing else as a single entity that holds as much influence as Consumer Reports does," Art Spinella of CNW says.

In addition to the recommendations, GM earned two "best picks," the magazine's top honor, for its Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck and the Pontiac Vibe (which shared the honor with the vehicle's twin, the Toyota Matrix). They were the Detroit company's first top picks. Two years ago, GM received 11 recommendations, but last year that number dwindled to four.

One sore spot for the world's largest auto maker: Cadillac, which may be making a sales comeback, but had the worst reliability of all major auto brands.

GM spokesman Tom Wickham noted that the reliability rankings were done on three-year-old vehicles, and the auto maker has done much to improve quality in the past two years. Consumer Reports agreed, noting that several GM trucks showed improved reliability. "We have great expectations that Cadillac products will be rising up the ranks," Mr. Wickham said.

Honda garnered five of the magazine's coveted "top pick" designations, its best showing since the magazine began the best-in-class designations in 1997. Toyota lost two of its best picks, earning just two this year, its worst showing since 1999.

Reliability scores come from the magazine's survey of approximately 3.5 million subscribers, about 480,000 of whom responded. Consumer Reports subscribers are older, richer and better educated than the population as a whole. Some two-thirds are men. The six-page survey, which asks readers to judge everything from their vacuum cleaner to automobile to restaurant chains, in the past has drawn criticism from auto makers.

This year auto firms seemed more reluctant to criticize the magazine's methodology. Ford, which last year questioned the minimum sample size for each model (100), this year limited comments to a written statement that said "quality is Ford Motor Co.'s highest priority." (Ford, of Dearborn, Mich., also included its Japanese affiliate Mazda, of which it owns a third, in its results, thus boosting the number of recommended vehicles from five to nine.)

Don Dees, vice president for quality for Chrysler Group, says Consumer Reports results generally track the company's own quality data. "Consumer Reports is a very good metric for us to look at as a company," he says.

Mercedes spokesman Fred Heiler noted that the questions are vague and don't make a "distinction between a squeak or a rattle or an engine or transmission falling out on the road." Mr. Heiler believes Mercedes's poor reliability results often are linked to added technology that the German-U.S. auto maker has included in the vehicle that owners often don't know how to use, so they assume it is flawed.

The Passat supplied the only good news for Volkswagen AG, with its six-cylinder version garnering a best pick for the sixth year in a row in the family-sedan category. Otherwise, the German auto maker's reliability was panned, even in its Audi luxury lineup, which earned no recommendations.

Reputation: Toyota has, by now, had a lifetime to cement its reputation among American consumers for nearly fool-proof quality. GM (Research) and Ford (Research) spent nearly as long honing a reputation for not caring much about quality. Things may have improved, but it takes a long time for that to sink in.

Recalls: GM, in particular, has had a problem with headline-making recalls. It's a big company, it sells a lot of vehicles and they share a lot of components. When one of those parts goes wrong, eye-popping numbers of vehicles can be affected. That doesn't mean the vehicles are unreliable. Recalls are a different sort of problem. But it does cause concerns.

Reviews: GM and Ford vehicles haven't always exuded the quality that may have been hiding in there somewhere. Cheap-feeling interior materials, raspy-sounding engines and gap-filled construction didn't give potential buyers the feeling of confidence that even lesser Japanese brands manage to carry off.

Both GM and Ford are making strides in this area, too. Some recent GM and Ford products should go a long way to correcting the image of throwaway construction.

GM and Ford deserve credit for what they've done so far. But American consumers have shown they still need lots more proof.

NO NEED TO REPLY I'M DONE :P

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