Cell Phones Equal Car Crashes

[SW03ES]

Alan- Again, thats a NEWS STORY. Its designed to SELL NEWS. No comparison with other factors, no discussion of the opposite side of the debate, no credibility there.

Peer reviewed published studies are availiable online.

[amf1932]

Alan- Again, thats a NEWS STORY. Its designed to SELL NEWS. No comparison with other factors, no discussion of the opposite side of the debate, no credibility there.

Peer reviewed published studies are availiable online.

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News story or not, there have been countless times that drivers in other cars using cellphones almost hit me! They were either drifting over into my lane on parkways or went thru full stop signs or traffic signals. Their concentration while driving was definitely compromised. It just so happens I had a narrow escape yesterday! Everybody is not as adept as you when it comes to using a cellphone while driving. <_<

[dcfish]

Alan- Again, thats a NEWS STORY. Its designed to SELL NEWS. No comparison with other factors, no discussion of the opposite side of the debate, no credibility there.

Peer reviewed published studies are availiable online.

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News story or not, there have been countless times that drivers in other cars using cellphones almost hit me! They were either drifting over into my lane on parkways or went thru full stop signs or traffic signals. Their concentration while driving was definitely compromised. It just so happens I had a narrow escape yesterday! Everybody is not as adept as you when it comes to using a cellphone while driving. <_<

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Park off the road to use your cell phone, Period. My .02 cents

[SW03ES]

Alan- Again, thats a NEWS STORY. Its designed to SELL NEWS. No comparison with other factors, no discussion of the opposite side of the debate, no credibility there.

Peer reviewed published studies are availiable online.

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News story or not, there have been countless times that drivers in other cars using cellphones almost hit me! They were either drifting over into my lane on parkways or went thru full stop signs or traffic signals. Their concentration while driving was definitely compromised. It just so happens I had a narrow escape yesterday! Everybody is not as adept as you when it comes to using a cellphone while driving. <_<

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Nor are people as adept at eating, drinking, talking, smoking, or changing radio stations as me either. You don't see people going after those things like they go after cell phones though, even though its been proven they distract as much or more than cell phones. Cell phones are cool to go after.

You also can't rely on your own experiences, being such a fervent hater of cell phone use when driving don't you think you might be a little bit predisposed to look for people with cell phones on the road and concentrate on what they're doing just a little bit more? I see no evidence of objectivity in your arguments, just a simple theme backed up by sensationalist news articles.

Park off the road to use your cell phone, Period. My .02 cents

If I did that I'd never get anywhere. Plus, if everyone pulled off the road and clogged the shoulders and parking lots to make calls you'd have an even more unstable traffic situation than we already do. Its like the stupid Lexus GPS lockout, most of the time you're in way more danger pulling off the road than you would be just putting the address in while you're moving. Cell phones are the same way.

Just remember. .1% of accidents can be traced directly to cell phones. Even if ALL accidents that are attributed to driver distraction were caused by cell phones, you'd still only be talking about 1%. 60% of accidents are caused by driver error. Which is the bigger issue? The fact that we talk on phones, or the fact that we don't know how to drive?

Allowing the government to ban cell phone use in cars, aside from being a civil liberty issue, is simply allowing the government to do what they always do, come up with a half assed bandaid fix for a problem they don't have the courage to confront. Gets us nowhere.

[dcfish]

Alan- Again, thats a NEWS STORY. Its designed to SELL NEWS. No comparison with other factors, no discussion of the opposite side of the debate, no credibility there.

Peer reviewed published studies are availiable online.

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News story or not, there have been countless times that drivers in other cars using cellphones almost hit me! They were either drifting over into my lane on parkways or went thru full stop signs or traffic signals. Their concentration while driving was definitely compromised. It just so happens I had a narrow escape yesterday! Everybody is not as adept as you when it comes to using a cellphone while driving. <_<

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Nor are people as adept at eating, drinking, talking, smoking, or changing radio stations as me either. You don't see people going after those things like they go after cell phones though, even though its been proven they distract as much or more than cell phones. Cell phones are cool to go after.

You also can't rely on your own experiences, being such a fervent hater of cell phone use when driving don't you think you might be a little bit predisposed to look for people with cell phones on the road and concentrate on what they're doing just a little bit more? I see no evidence of objectivity in your arguments, just a simple theme backed up by sensationalist news articles.

Park off the road to use your cell phone, Period. My .02 cents

If I did that I'd never get anywhere. Plus, if everyone pulled off the road and clogged the shoulders and parking lots to make calls you'd have an even more unstable traffic situation than we already do. Its like the stupid Lexus GPS lockout, most of the time you're in way more danger pulling off the road than you would be just putting the address in while you're moving. Cell phones are the same way.

Just remember. .1% of accidents can be traced directly to cell phones. Even if ALL accidents that are attributed to driver distraction were caused by cell phones, you'd still only be talking about 1%. 60% of accidents are caused by driver error. Which is the bigger issue? The fact that we talk on phones, or the fact that we don't know how to drive?

Allowing the government to ban cell phone use in cars, aside from being a civil liberty issue, is simply allowing the government to do what they always do, come up with a half assed bandaid fix for a problem they don't have the courage to confront. Gets us nowhere.

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Most cell calls made on the road are not important nor are they an emergency just a waste of concentration. People shouldn't conduct business while driving either. If you absolutley have to make that call [ or take that call ] it should be important enough to pull over and give 100% of your attention to the other party out of safety and respect for yourself and others.

[amf1932]

You also can't rely on your own experiences, being such a fervent hater of cell phone use when driving don't you think you might be a little bit predisposed to look for people with cell phones on the road and concentrate on what they're doing just a little bit more? I see no evidence of objectivity in your arguments, just a simple theme backed up by sensationalist news articles.

Wrong on all points!

If I can't rely on my own experiences then who's experiences can I rely on?

I am definitely NOT predisposed in looking for people using cell phones, driving in a manner that I consider hazardous. They are in their own world and not concentrating on the main thing that they should be concentrating on.....DRIVING!

I've been driving every type of motor vehicle, including motorcycles, scooters, semi's, trucks, whatever, for over 60 years with a 100% clean record, so I think I'm able to judge when I see somebody who's driving like an a-hole, and recently the most times I see them, they're holding a phone to their ear.

I make my own judgements, but when I see this type of proof in news articles it just reinforces my beliefs!

One other thing....I use a hands free cellphone on occasion while driving and it DOES take away some of my driving concentration.

This argument can go on forever.....and you can't convince me, and I can't convince you so at this point I give up.

[blake918]

We can go back and forth all day since anyone can find university research to support just about any theory. Here is an interesting little story from the Insurance Information Insitute they cover a little of both sides. I'd have to agree with the findings that cellphone usage is a big distraction since I was nailed by a young woman yammering on her cellphone all the while she didn't see my big, black LS stopped at a redlight. Luckily, neither I nor the other driver was hurt, and the LS walked away with just a minor, minor scratch. I hate to admit it, but I was thumbing through my phone book in my phone and nearly slammed in to the rear of the car in front of me. It scared the hell out of me as I was going just under 80, and I learned from the situation. Needless to say, shortly after that, we installed a Nokia carphone in my LS which I don't use all that much from that prior experience. Just today in the toll plaza, some guy in a truck was on his phone. In a 5 second period, he pulled in front of two vehicles going probably 40mph while he was going 5-10. It's a good thing those drivers were paying attention since they honked and swerved out of the cell user's way.

Anyone see that episode of Mythbusters where they setup a road course and gave it a go while talking on their cellphone and once more when legally drunk? They recieved a better score when they were drunk.

The fact of the matter is there are drivers on the road that aren't paying attention-cellphones or no cellphones (and trust me, I know a lot about stupid drivers since I live in Louisiana, home of the most moronic drivers on the roads.), so be careful.

[bartkat]

Well if you use that logic windshield wipers should be outlawed too, because they cause the same drops in reaction times as cell phones.

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There's a really big flaw in your and your professor's research. It should be obvious what it is.

[indiasfinest]

u no what this is retarded...if we cant use cell phones in our car...then what is the point of having a NAV in the car...u pretty much 'talk' to the car n e way so its like a diff conversation...u cant forget glancing down at the screen...pulling over to the side of the road? thats even more dangerous...at this point we should just drive boxes on wheels if you want to be the safety consciense...if your driving a manual car...u might not want to shift gears cuz it might cause an accident....thats what this world is going to come 2 if ppl like the ones in this forum keep complaining...and for those that r arguing cell phones should be made illegal...r u tellling me that u have never used a cell phone in your car?....thats what i thought...and if you havnt used a cell phone than your living in the wrong time peroid

[91L3xus]

I'll admit, everyone has some sort of distraction to pull them away from driving. According to statements made in this thread, a distraction could be checking your side view mirror when changing lanes. Doing anything other than only looking straight ahead while driving could be considered a distraction. Even I almost got into an accident today reaching for my phone when slowing to a yellow light - had to swerve to other lane to avoid rear ending an Explorer. Would've been my fault, and you know the reason? "failure to pay attention" would've been on my ticket. It was a bad judgement on my part.

However, driving is not just looking ahead all the time; it's being cautious of your entire surroundings- checking your rear view and side mirrors for any wreckless drivers and whatnot, glancing out the windows when changing lanes (doing this to check blind spots not covered by the mirrors)

Adding a cell phone to the mix isn't really a significant distraction. Sure 60% of reported crashes are the cause of driver error, but that's a pretty generic category. Driver error is not having the common sense to be aware of your surroundings. It's also probably things like not respecting right of way laws at 4 way stop intersections, or yields.

What if someone got into an accident because they missed a stop sign because it was hidden from view? This happened to my dad when approaching an intersection and did not stop. He was run into on the passenger side by someone accelerating from a stop. He did not see the sign. Was this driver error?

For the police report, he took numerous Polaroid pictures of the view from his car before the intersection; you could not see the stop sign until you were parallel to it. A tall bush (maintained by Virginia's Dept. Of Transportation) had not been trimmed for months and the sign was only visible from the sidewalk.

[SW03ES]

Most cell calls made on the road are not important nor are they an emergency just a  waste of concentration. People shouldn't conduct business while driving either. If you absolutley have to make that call [ or take that call ] it should be important enough to pull over and give 100% of your attention to the other party out of safety and respect for yourself and others.

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Thanks for that, but since you're not me nor do you even know me please don't tell me whether or not my calls are important. Again, like I said if I pulled off the road to make every call not only would I never get anywhere, but I'd be a huge impediment to traffic.

Wrong on all points!

If I can't rely on my own experiences then who's experiences can I rely on?

I am definitely NOT predisposed in looking for people using cell phones, driving in a manner that I consider hazardous. They are in their own world and not concentrating on the main thing that they should be concentrating on.....DRIVING!

No offense, but if you really believe that you're a fool. Of course you're perceptions of the world around you are skewed by your beliefs and predispositions, they are for everyone. Why do you think eyewitness testimony is so unreliable? You experience so many things in the course of a day, even a minute that you only retain memories of information that trips on some sort of a heuristic for you. You hate cell phone talking drivers, you WILL remember their actions more than those of drivers who are not using cell phones. That is proven scientific fact.

There's a really big flaw in your and your professor's research. It should be obvious what it is.

Its not my research, I just happened to be around when he was doing it. If you find a flaw please present it. I've tried to get my hands on an e-copy of the paper but I dont have access to that info anymore.

Anyone see that episode of Mythbusters where they setup a road course and gave it a go while talking on their cellphone and once more when legally drunk? They recieved a better score when they were drunk.

I like Mythbusters too, they actually do some really good science but again Mythbusters is out to sell TV air time so you've got to take what they present with a grain of salt. Plus as good as they are, they're not scientists and what they do is not scientific study. Biases inevitably set in, which is fine since again its just for entertainment.

Also bear in mind you're not looking for scores on a road course, no one is going to go through complex driving moves while holding a cell phone. You want to look at reaction times.

Keep in mind that you have two distinct schools of thought, one group that thinks its a non-issue and one that thinks its as serious as an aids outbreak in Yugonda. When thats the case the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Also bear in mind there is NO EVIDENCE that cell phone usage contributes even to 1% of traffic fatalities. Even if all accidents attributed to inattention were blamed on cell phones, you'd still only be at 1%.

Those are the facts, no arguing with them.

[blake918]

I like Mythbusters too, they actually do some really good science but again Mythbusters is out to sell TV air time so you've got to take what they present with a grain of salt. Plus as good as they are, they're not scientists and what they do is not scientific study. Biases inevitably set in, which is fine since again its just for entertainment.

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Fair enough! ;) This is the real deal though....

My sister+moderate rain+VZW LG 6100+new text message from best friend=one big mess. While she was reading her message, she noticed that she was comming up on the person in front of her too quickly. She slams on the brakes, jerks the wheel, loses control of the ES300, side swipes the Corolla next to her, the Corolla careenes off the road in to a tree, and the ES ended up stuck in the mud in the median. She was ticketed for careless operation. I don't think any researcher would know what she was really doing as it wasn't noted on the ticket. Luckily, no one was hurt.

The ES is a tough little car....

Excuse the camera phone. This is where the ES side swiped the Corolla...

This is where the Corolla slid in to the tree...

As you can see, the roads weren't even that wet...

[SW03ES]

When was that? Glad your sis is okay.

But again, was that the fault of the phone or the fault of the driver? No one is saying text messaging people while driving is safe...

[blake918]

When was that? Glad your sis is okay.

But again, was that the fault of the phone or the fault of the driver? No one is saying text messaging people while driving is safe...

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That was probably 3 weeks or so ago (a few days before the 4th I think). I didn't even make a post about it since the damage to the ES was so minor. The body shop had it back together in just a couple hours. I think the world of the ES's safety after this incident.

Of course it's her fault, and she caused this entire thing because her attention was diverted to her cell phone.

[LexKid630]

I have to agree with SW03ES on this subject. I don't believe that holding a cell near your ear is any more distracting than reaching out to change the radio station etc! Yes, many people have gotten in accidents "while" holding a cell phone, but there have been accidents where people haven't been using a cell phone!!

All i know is that, if a driver is awake and alert, using a cell phone doesn't make you any less safe than... using the radio for instance.

I'm on the cell phone all the time while driving, and i haven't been in an accident because of it. If anything, i'm MORE alert because i know i have a distraction, and MAY be more likely to get into an accident. I don't know if this makes sense to you, but it does to me. There are many more distractions out there that are worse than using a phone. I almost got myself killed once trying to straighten out the rear view mirror!!! Glancing down at the speedometer is worse thann holding a cell phone.

Think about it: What is so distracting about using a cell phone? dialing the numbers...ok, i'll give you that; but that's just as worse as using the radio!! just holding a cell right infront of you is nicer, don't you think? You can see it better, and quick glances are easier to perform.

Then there's holding the cell with your right hand. Where esle is your hand gonna be? If you have an automatic your hand is either on the wheel (but you have your left hand!!) So your right hand is either in your lap just circulating blood, or near your ear holding a cell phone. What's the difference!!??

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

[this is to anyone who disputes the notion that talking to someone on a cell phone increases the risk of getting into an accident]

Some of you may be especially gifted - and talking to someone on a cell phone while driving has NO effect whatsoever on your ability to safely drive a car. If that's the case - I think that's great. Good for you. But most people are NOT so gifted. It has been argued that holding a cell phone to your ear is no more distracting than reaching out to change the radio station. Well... I don't know about some of you - but I don't press my head against the radio and leave it there. I change the radio station when it's SAFE TO DO SO. When you are talking to someone on a cell phone [something that has already been mentioned - I believe] some OTHER PERSON has become part of the equation. You can choose to ignore what you hear on a radio but most people can NOT ignore the person talking to them on a cell phone. [or any phone - for that matter] Most people that I've seen on a cell phone will NOT interupt the conversation they are engaged in - NO MATTER WHAT they may be dealing with on the road. God forbid they say, "Hang on a second - I'm trying to save my LIFE and keep OTHERS from dying!!" Try talking to someone while they are having a conversation on a regular phone and take note of how well they can deal with TWO things going on at the SAME time.

Oh well.. just another opinion.

Craig!! :)

[SW03ES]

I've never once used my own experiences driving with a cell phone as evidence that its any more or less distracting than anything else you do in a car, I'v e cited peer reviewed research and presented accident statistics. Other members have presented other statistics and research. If you'd take the time to look at the research objectively you might see my point. You won't though, nobody does thats why Maryland has been the only state so far to realize that legislation limiting cell phone use is pointless. It doesn't do anything because its not cell phones causing these problems, its people who can't drive in the first place. You need to look at other countries, higher speeds, less laws, cell phones just like here but dramatically lower traffic death statistics. Why? Because its much harder to get and keep a drivers license there than it is here.

Our government doesn't take driving seriously, so why blame citizens that don't?

Cell phones aren't the problem.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi SW03ES!! :)

This may come as a shock - but a person who agrees with YOU is NOT necessarily smarter than a person who DISAGREES with YOU. [or the scientists that concluded something that YOU just happen to agree with] I read the research AND read EVERY word written in every message posted in this thread. [including every word you have written] And inspite of that - I still believe that it would be safer to drive without talking on a cell phone. [yes - I know. It's unbelievable - isn't it] If I really knew what I was talking about - I would agree with YOU. [isn't that what you think?]

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Craig!! :)

[LexKid630]

..I think we're all misinterpreting the question we're trying to answer here. To some people, cell phones have no effect on how we dive. To others, a cell phone is a distraction. I agree with you, it is sort of a gift to be able to talk on a phone and drive at the same time without getting into an accident. I think everyone can put themselves in either catagory...

We all have our limits... If you know you are one of those people that can't handle holding a cell while driving, then DON'T talk on the cell while driving...It's common sense!! Do whatever you have to to be safe..If you know that you can't handle it, then don't put yourself and others in danger. For us that can handle holding a cell while driving, we should be able to talk on the phone while driving!! why punish us just because the rest of the people can't handle it!!

These statistics and survey's we're all sharing are just numbers. They are averages. just because more than 90% or whatever of the population has a problem with talking on a phone and driving at the same time doesn't mean that a law should be pased saying "no one" can have a cell phone while driving.

I'm not trying to make any more enemies here, i'm just trying to figure out what we are arguing about LOL

[91L3xus]

Then there's holding the cell with your right hand. Where esle is your hand gonna be? If you have an automatic your hand is either on the wheel (but you have your left hand!!) So your right hand is either in your lap just circulating blood, or near your ear holding a cell phone. What's the difference!!??

Just because you have an extra hang "lying" around doesn't necessarily mean you have to put it to use. As it's been stated, carrying on a conversation with someone requires a completely different part of the brain, and they appeal to different senses. You're using the tactile part for driving, while using the oratory (hearing) to talk to the person on the other end of the line. While talking to someone on the phone when you are driving, you're basically making your brain work 2 times harder. It could be considered just as distracting as changing the radio, but unlike the placing of HVAC/radio controls in a car, conversations change, as well as the mood of the driver, essentially affecting the way he/she drives.

Say the person you were on the phone with got into an argument with you while you were driving, wouldn't that make you agitated? Being behind the wheel when this happens is obviously not going to help the situation. I'm not saying that if you make someone angry- while having a conversation with them on the phone and they're driving- it will cause them to wreak havoc on his/her surrounding commuters. But putting someone in a *BLEEP*y mood while driving is just "loading the gun", so to speak.

Next time you're (anyone, not directed just at LK) out driving, observe a person talking on the cell phone when driving. I guarantee you that their driving will be more sloppy than someone just driving. Or even better yet, ask someone to ride with you when you talk and drive at the same time, as ask them what they thought of your driving while on the phone.

[SW03ES]

Hi SW03ES!! :)

This may come as a shock - but a person who agrees with YOU is NOT necessarily smarter than a person who DISAGREES with YOU. [or the scientists that concluded something that YOU just happen to agree with] I read the research AND read EVERY word written in every message posted in this thread. [including every word you have written] And inspite of that - I still believe that it would be safer to drive without talking on a cell phone. [yes - I know. It's unbelievable - isn't it] If I really knew what I was talking about - I would agree with YOU. [isn't that what you think?]

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Craig!! :)

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I've never once said that anyone is not as intelligent as I am, but I AM more versed in this subject than you are because of the study and research that I've done on it. I also have a bachelors degree in psychology with a focus in cognitive function and reasoning and the biology of communication. While not less intelligent than me, unless you also have similar education and experience in the very subject we're debating, I do know more about it than you. Thats okay, I'm sure you know more than I do about many subjects. It just so happens I spent years studying this very subject and the psychology and biology around it.

Your responses come as no surprise to me, most people are unwilling to entertain the idea that cell phone use when driving may not be as dangerous as it is chocked up to be. You can make this personal if you want, I'm not. I'm tough when I'm confident in my position but I don't cut into people personally, thats the first sign of someone who knows they have no argument. If you have some insight into the subject, some information to share, or a rationalization for your position share it, if not I'm not sure why you're still posting in this thread.

I fight a good argument, if that makes you angry...sorry.

You're using the tactile part for driving, while using the oratory (hearing) to talk to the person on the other end of the line. While talking to someone on the phone when you are driving, you're basically making your brain work 2 times harder. It could be considered just as distracting as changing the radio, but unlike the placing of HVAC/radio controls in a car, conversations change, as well as the mood of the driver, essentially affecting the way he/she drives.

Thats not entirely true. The human brain has an extraordinary ability to reason and carry out tasks while solving problems, doing other tasks, etc. Something like driving becomes so much an automatic function that it takes very few cognitive resources to carry out. Whether you realize it or not you do a lot in your mind while you're driving simply because it doesn't hold your concentration, you solve problems, you reason, you daydream. You have plenty of cognitive potential left to carry on a conversation, talk on a phone, etc. and still be able to effectively drive.

The problem comes when you need to make an emergency reaction, the time it takes your brain to process that something is happening in the road, decide on a course of action, and then carry that course of action out is increased when cognitive processes are dedicated to other things or impaired by an outside substance. Thats not a question, the question is does talking on a cell phone delay that response time more than any of the other things we do in a car while we're driving. There's plenty of evidence that using a phone delays reaction time, there is very little evidence that it delays reaction times longer than talking to a passenger, eating, drinking, etc.

Thats my issue with it on a scientific level. On a political level it makes me crazy when the government throws money at a problem without trying to get to the real cause of it. The cause of these traffic fatalities is NOT cell phones, I promise you. Cell phones are just a smokescreen to hide the fact that the government has been INCOMPETENT at training and granting priveledges to drive.

Say the person you were on the phone with got into an argument with you while you were driving, wouldn't that make you agitated? Being behind the wheel when this happens is obviously not going to help the situation. I'm not saying that if you make someone angry- while having a conversation with them on the phone and they're driving- it will cause them to wreak havoc on his/her surrounding commuters. But putting someone in a *BLEEP*y mood while driving is just "loading the gun", so to speak.

Your state of mind has a huge impact on your ability to think clearly and rationally and make good decisions, again nobody is debating that. Road rage is a huge issue on our highways, Again though nobody has shown any evidence that people who talk on cell phones are any more likely to become angry when driving than say people who carry on conversations with passengers, or become angry at other motorists etc.

The argument that cell phones cause car accidents just doesn't hold any water because there's no basis for it...

[91L3xus]

My view might completely counterpoint the view of others towards this subject, and I think I know why. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). And to put it out there, this is not a plea to feel bad for me or for people to show sympathy for me, I am just stating my condition.

This means that I cannot process thoughts or actions as quickly as others, as well as the tendency to be very easily distracted. I have decided for the safety of myself and others, that, because of my "sickness" or whatever you care to call it, that I will not use my cell phone while driving anymore. I get in the car, turn off the phone, and when I get where I needed to go, I turn the phone back on. It was even recommended by my doctor that I not even bother with the GPS system while driving, or even while sitting at a red light. He even suggested to my parents that it be removed from my car.

Maybe medicine is the cure for the common bad driver. I take Rittlin, 45mg a day, which greatly helped me improve my attention span. When I say this, it makes me sound like before I was on medicine and out on the roads, I was a terror. This is not true, as it has obviously helped and I can tell the differences. Mostly it stopped me from doing pet peeves such as fidgeting with pens in my hands or tapping with pens or playing with little objects when talking to people, and not even noticing it.

However, medication to stop the use of cell phones, or even limiting the use is completely rediculous. It's using good jusgement that will keep accident levels down. If it's raining, stay off the phone. If there's heavy stop and go traffic, stay off the phone. Just have patience, and when you get to a spot where there aren't so many different factors that can afftect your driving, use your phone.

Just some suggestions; play it safe.

[SW03ES]

Well thats an entirely different situation. With ADHD your brain has an entirely different way of percieving and processing stimuli. Its not that you can't process things or make decisions as quickly as others you just do it differently, oftentimes this makes it seem like it takes longer.

On a side note good job getting that diagnosed and getting treatment. You'll have a much better life knowing you have it and realizing the things you need to do to be able to function properly in school, in a job etc. Lots of people go through their whole lives just thinking they're not as good at...well life as everybody else. Everything will seem much easier now.

As for medication for drivers, whats really needed is better training, and the government taking driving more seriously like they do elsewhere. How do you expect the public to take driving more seriously than driving a Waverunner when the government requires similar training and licensure for both? They won't.

Getting a drivers license needs to be more like getting a pilots license.

[CanadaCraig]

SW03ES.

I'll say it again. WE are going to have to 'agree to disagree'.

[i will not post again in this thread]

Craig

[SW03ES]

I'm not going to agree to disagree with anyone, we've been having a discussion with opposing viewpoints being brought to the table and discussed. The only person who has his back up here is you. I don't know what you expected when you started this thread, my guess is that you thought everyone would just back up the position of the article you posted.

If you don't want to debate the topic anymore, don't participate in the thread. Several other members have opted out. Expecting us to stop our discussion because you don't agree with me and coming at me personally though, thats just out of line.