Synthic Oil And K&n Filter

[mspin24]

Questions to all you ES owners. I have a 1996 ES with 75,000 miles that I just bought. It has had all recomended services. I was wanting some opinions about adding synthic oil with a K&N filter. Will this help performance, gas miles, etc. or is it a bunch of bull on these Lexus car?

OPINIONS

[SW03ES]

Basically the use of these two products is going to draw widely different opinions. I use synthetic oil because from all accounts I've read its better. Doesn't cost me that much more and it makes me happy. I don't use a K&N filter for fear of adding more intake noise and I like the car as quiet as possible. If you mean a K&N oil filter, skip it as Toyota makes one of the best ones around.

[tundra-lover]

I've gotten much better mileage in all of my vehicles running synthetic oil. I recently got in on a group buy for Royal Purple again, and changed my Mobil 1 synthetic in my ES and have even better mileage. I'll keep you posted on the exact mileage increase. My Tundra had an increase of 50 miles per tank of fuel, and the valves were much more quiet. I highly recommend it, but change it your self.

Yes, I would agree on the "oiled style air filters" like K&N, very controversial! I however have had great luck with mine. I don't care about a little more noise, not that its apparent unless you use an intire FIPK style kit. You will notice better mileage, and maybe better throttle response, but not much in power (3hp). I also like to clean my filters frequently instead of replacing them. Many people will argue this thread, so be prepared to be objective. If you buy one, don't over oil it. If you get a cone style, get a dust cover.

[SKperformance]

look in the general maintance section as this is a general question on maintance products

[mburnickas]

I have used a 100% synthetic oil since my “nich back” mustang LX days 1994. I have never seen and increase in MPG. I am not saying some don’t but I have used it in my 1994 LX 5.0, F-350 Powerstoke Diesel, my Es300 and my wife’s ML-420 and no increases. I also use it in my

GSX-R1100 and Kubota diesel but I could careless about MPG with these two.

As I have stated time and time again my silicone levels with an oil-glazed air filter. I even oiled more on one filter change and half of what the bottle stated on another and the levels were through the roof on the tests. Yes people can argue on this and that, but when I get an oil test back and the results are over 20 ppm then I switch to back to paper and they are around 8 ppm something is pretty evident here. That is a delta of 60%, something to look at.

Lastly, save the $40 for a K&N and buy a few paper filters and use the rest for fuel. K&N are not worth the extra $$$ and will not do anything for an ES (sedan). Maybe a race car but not a ES Lexus. If you do use one, do an oil test before to get a baseline and then when you are using one. Watch your silicone levels and see if your wear rates go up.

Something to think about before you spend the “jingle” on a filter. After my results on them, you could not pay me to use one.

Since the car has around 75K miles I would install a good oil and then drain at a short interval. Next install of oil you can go more miles.

Then again, I go over 12K miles on my oil changes since I hate doing them...

[dcfish]

Stock filter , And I use NEO synthetic oil in both of my lexus , and would use no other oil.

[es300ed]

Welcome and good luck with your "new" ES300. I too have a 96 with 78,000 miles. I'm the third owner and got it 2 years ago with 52,000 miles and with one exception it has been a trouble free car. The one exception was a battery that blew its top. It wasn't a maintenance free one and I didn't know it and let the acid level get too low. I get 25mpg on the highway and the car looks and rised like new. You made a great choice.

Ed

[mspin24]

Thank everbody for your opinions so far. Keep them coming. I'll make the decision at my next oil change. This is a great site.

[SW03ES]

12k miles between oil changes is super dangerous considering the gelling problems on the 97-00. That voids Lexus' special extended warranty covering engine replacement...

[mburnickas]

"That voids Lexus' special extended warranty covering engine replacement... "???

All the info I have states "All we ask is that you show a reasonable effort to regularly maintain your vehicle." It does not state a precise interval nor can they NOT prove I did not adhere to their drains. If something major happens they will do what I do, an oil analysis and that will be the proof in the pudding. Nor does it define "reasonable" and how this differs from what they "recommend". This is a wide open door since I do not seen any milage stated.

When I had my Powerstroke I asked the service guy what they do when motor blows on warranty and he said it does not matter what slips they have or not. We need to test the oil in the engine at the time the motor blew. The oil change proof is very hard to tell until we proof it to ourselves. Plus corporate wants to make sure the customer is not lying.

Maybe Lexus buys the "slips from oil changes attitude” but you can fake anything with today’s computers. I have a dollar bill with my picture on it, maybe I can use it on Lexus goods when I go there. :)

[SW03ES]

They will not pay for engine repair if you can only demonstrate evidence of 12k drain intervals. The burden of proof is on you, they don't have to prove that you didn't maintain the vehicle, you have to prove that you did. I've seen more than my share of ES owners get screwed over the oil gelling because Lexus didn't feel their efforts were "enough". If you drain the oil at least every 7500k like they say then they have no position to take other than to give you the free engine replacement. You can sue them for it...

My only point is I think its foolish to risk having to fork out $10,000 for an engine or having to go through the hassle of litigation to save a few bucks and 30 mintes every 4-5 months to get the oil changed. Its just not worth it.

[mburnickas]

I think you are not understanding me. All you need to say to them or a lawyer "is I do not have to prove anything or "I do not remember but it was not that long ago" and I am very sure Lexus will not just go by that. If they do, Lexus must trust every customer to a “t”. Prove to me it is my fault. Show me the numbers that indicate my oil is sludged and oil drains were the problem.

What do I need to prove I did an oil change? Slips I can get those made up quick. You are missing the point. NO company is going to trust the customer when it comes out of there pocket. They will I am sure of it, they will test the oil to prove to them. They will not go by some slips form some mom and pop garage of anyplace.

You can’t prove to me that “30 minutes every 4-5 months to get the oil changed. Its just not worth it.” will do anything. If it does lets see you oil tests to see the numbers??????????????Mine are online and state it is fine.

If you want to prove it here as you state, Lexus does not say how to show proof, the process that should be done and show examples. I do not know what “demonstrate evidence “ means. Again ask 100 people and get 100 differences.

[jragosta]

I think you are not understanding me. All you need to say to them or a lawyer "is I do not have to prove anything or "I do not remember but it was not that long ago" and I am very sure Lexus will not just go by that. If they do, Lexus must trust every customer to a “t”. Prove to me it is my fault. Show me the numbers that indicate my oil is sludged and oil drains were the problem.

What do I need to prove I did an oil change? Slips I can get those made up quick. You are missing the point. NO company is going to trust the customer when it comes out of there pocket. They will I am sure of it, they will test the oil to prove to them. They will not go by some slips form some mom and pop garage of anyplace.

You can’t prove to me that “30 minutes every 4-5 months to get the oil changed. Its just not worth it.” will do anything. If it does lets see you oil tests to see the numbers??????????????Mine are online and state it is fine.

If you want to prove it here as you state, Lexus does not say how to show proof, the process that should be done and show examples. I do not know what “demonstrate evidence “ means. Again ask 100 people and get 100 differences.

I'm just curious what numbers you're referring to. Exactly what are you testing. Also, who is testing it - are they a fully certified lab?

[mburnickas]

Numbers are oil test result and I have used OA and BL and yes they are cert,.....Again nothing new here. This is the great oil debate which I did not want to happen. I am not breaking ground here. Go on any car, truck suv or oil forum and you can read for months.

You can also get oil tested at many rig places but the more results you want cost more...

All I was trying to get across is that you should test your oil since it might look fine but the results suck.

[monarch]

Major brand synthetic oils like Mobil 1 do not make any claim of improved power or gas mileage. So common sense dictates synthetic oil cannot improve power and gas mileage. However, these companies use clever subliminal advertizing techniques to make the public ASSUME synthetics improve power and gas mileage.

Likewise, if K&N air filters really could improve power and gas mileage without causing any negative side effects then the top automakers in the world like Lexus/Infiniti/Acura would use them or at least copy the design. But none of them have. In fact lowly Ford even has gone so far as to void the new car powertrain warranty if the owner uses an oil wetted air filter element like the K&N.

Here's some information on Toyota/Lexus air filters that the K&N air filter salesmen probably don't want you to know:

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterd.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterc.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfiltera.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterb.jpg

[SW03ES]

Not neccisarily. Why would Toyota spend out of pocket for an air filter that they'll never be able to charge the customer to replace? Plenty of parts and fluids etc are better than OEM.

mb- All I'm saying is that Lexus is not easy about covering the engine. They require that you provide proof in the form of written reciepts that the oil has been regularly changed. It is up to them to decide if the amount of reciepts you have provided is adequate or not. If you can't provide reciepts then they won't cover the engine. Proof that the oil was changed every 12k miles is not going to fly, and they're not going to be interested in your oil analysis. All I'm saying is why is stretching the oil change out to 12k miles worth the possibility of this hassle?

I'm not saying you can't stretch oil changes out to 12k miles, I know people who use Amsoil and wait 20k and never have any adverse problems come up in the oil analysis. I'm just saying on a car like the 98 ES300 with a well known sludge problem that results from drawn out oil changes with an extended warranty from Lexus that states they will cover the repair as long as the owner can produce reciepts satisfying their idea of what is regular maintenance its just not worth the possible hassles down the road.

[amf1932]

I'm just saying on a car like the 98 ES300 with a well known sludge problem that results from drawn out oil changes with an extended warranty from Lexus that states they will cover the repair as long as the owner can produce reciepts satisfying their idea of what is regular maintenance its just not worth the possible hassles down the road.

So what happens to the guys/gals that prefer to do their own oil/filter service???

How do they prove they've done it?

[SW03ES]

Lexus requests reciepts for oil and filter purchases and/or reciepts from recycling stations for the dumping of used oil.

[jragosta]

Likewise, if K&N air filters really could improve power and gas mileage without causing any negative side effects then the top automakers in the world like Lexus/Infiniti/Acura would use them or at least copy the design. But none of them have. In fact lowly Ford even has gone so far as to void the new car powertrain warranty if the owner uses an oil wetted air filter element like the K&N.

Here's some information on Toyota/Lexus air filters that the K&N air filter salesmen probably don't want you to know:

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterd.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterc.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfiltera.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/airfilterb.jpg

I've been through this repeatedly. I am an expert in filtration processes and I've analyzed the K&N filter claims. Mostly bogus.

There are still a few people who want to believe that they're doing themselves a favor, but the placebo effect has always been powerful.

[jragosta]

Numbers are oil test result and I have used OA and BL and yes they are cert,.....Again nothing new here. This is the great oil debate which I did not want to happen. I am not breaking ground here. Go on any car, truck suv or oil forum and you can read for months.

You can also get oil tested at many rig places but the more results you want cost more...

All I was trying to get across is that you should test your oil since it might look fine but the results suck.

That's not very useful. 'Oil test result' could be anything.

I'm interested in knowing the specifics of what they're testing and what they consider acceptable values.

I'm willling to bet that even an oil that passes their test could easily fail to meet Toyota standards. If you give me the specifics of what they're testing and reporting, I can show you how.

[mburnickas]

SW03ES ---Ok, next round.... :D

So I guess as you stated a written receipt is needed. I do not know who does written receipts anyway. So what if the customer does his oil once per month and he does it but he does not have receipts? I can make receipts myself and I personally keep written records of what I do. What if the shop does not give them with any info just the shops total? Bottom line, you could be right but from what Lexus sent me and online it does not state anything about receipts nor does it give you example of any terms. Also nor does it state what info is required on the so-called “receipt”.

Oh , when I got my Lexus I traded my truck at 80K miles and the Head service guy said he wanted it before I even traded it. Now with over 135K miles it is running great since I still contact him from time to time. He knows about the long drains and I even gave him my tests and he said that was good to have.

To close based on Lexus, they will not base an oil engine replacement solely (100%) on receipts or slips. I find that hard to believe Lexus will honor an engine based on some receipts or slips of paper. As you stated “All I'm saying is that Lexus is not easy about covering the engine” Bingo having a slip does not mean, "ok give the guy money for a new engine". Wrong they are going to dig way deeper then that. They will do an oil tests to see what the oil properties are and go from there.

It seems to you are stuck on a warranty here. Do what makes you happy but warranties are only as good as the paper they are written on.

jragosta —Yes oil tests could be anything; however, with a little homework and asking a few questions to the correct people, they can tell you what is good or bad. Also the labs should supply you with any data you might need. All oil tests conform to ASTM or SAE specification, nothing new here.

Lastly yes you are correct on any oil, but you can look at what oil specifications Toyota oil passed (on back of oil) and then see what other oils do the same. Again nothing new here. Toyota is nothing special on oil and many pass the same ASTM specs.

I know how to read the specifications since I used them daily and know how to interrupt the results. Also if you graph the results it will not be linear since oils do not perform this way.

[mburnickas]

SW03ES- you stated “Lexus requests reciepts for oil and filter purchases and/or reciepts from recycling stations for the dumping of used oil. ”

I have to LOL on this one.

So Lexus “requests” which does not mean I have to provide anything nor does it mandate it. It only requests however that is not my point.

My first point is:

1- I could show I bought filters and oil but what does that mean?

2- Did I buy the correct filters?

3- Did I buy the correct oil?

4- How does Lexus know I even installed them on the car in question?

5- How does Lexus know I installed them when I stated?

6- Did I install them to the correct process in their manual?

7- How do they know I did not skip an oil filter or change (every other one)?

Next “Lexus wants slips to show I dump used oil”! Hell, I could go with use frying oil and get a slip if anyone does that. There is no proof in the fluid being dumped is oil from the Lexus in question or if in fact what the fluid is.

They will base my warranty on that? No way, plus what recycling stations give receipts? You are lucky if the people working there are around, could really care about there job or yet do anything MORE then there job to be there.

[jragosta]

jragosta —Yes oil tests could be anything; however, with a little homework and asking a few questions to the correct people, they can tell you what is good or bad. Also the labs should supply you with any data you might need. All oil tests conform to ASTM or SAE specification, nothing new here.

Lastly yes you are correct on any oil, but you can look at what oil specifications Toyota oil passed (on back of oil) and then see what other oils do the same. Again nothing new here. Toyota is nothing special on oil and many pass the same ASTM specs.

I know how to read the specifications since I used them daily and know how to interrupt the results. Also if you graph the results it will not be linear since oils do not perform this way.

But 'it meets ASSTM specs' isn't going to be sufficient. Before spending $5 K on a new engine, Lexus is going to want you to prove that your oil meets specs. EVERY spec. And the testing for that would cost more than just replacing the oil.

Of course, it's a moot point. Lexus has a recommended oil change interval. If you go longer than that, they can refuse to replace an engine even if you could somehow prove that it met every single ASTM standard.

[mburnickas]

Nothing new here with the oil battle. Most oils out there pass the proper specs for Toyota oil since it is nothing new. Plus there are not that many ASTM / SAE spec that it must pass.

As you stated “Lexus is going to want you to prove that your oil meets specs” then how will they do that?, maybe an oil test that is how. There is no other way.

Yes, they could refuse if you go longer or even if you do what they say. They could do what they wish. As I stated they will dig ”long-and-hard” and not go by what the customer states. Since with this amount of jingle is “on the line” it will take more the receipts also.

[jragosta]

Nothing new here with the oil battle. Most oils out there pass the proper specs for Toyota oil since it is nothing new. Plus there are not that many ASTM / SAE spec that it must pass.

As you stated “Lexus is going to want you to prove that your oil meets specs” then how will they do that?, maybe an oil test that is how. There is no other way.

Yes, they could refuse if you go longer or even if you do what they say. They could do what they wish. As I stated they will dig ”long-and-hard” and not go by what the customer states. Since with this amount of jingle is “on the line” it will take more the receipts also.

NEW oils will meet the specs. That's not an issue.

The issue being discussed is people who leave their oil in for > 10,000 miles and have it tested to feel that it's OK to leave the oil in that long. In order to satisfy Lexus, you'd have to show that the oil met the specs not when it was new, but after 10,000 miles or more.

Frankly, anyone who's leaving their oil in for that long doesn't deserve to get a new engine. Lexus tells you how to maintain your car. If you don't, Lexus shouldn't have to pay for it.

Of course, there's always the option of lying to say that you changed it at the recommended intervals. Even if Lexus doesn't ask for proof, that's fraud- pure and simple.