So Snopes Covers For Obama

[lenore]

This is truely an interesting email...Sounds like to me Justice Kagan is on the take for OBAMA>>>plus SNopes is no longer a trusted authority...Another example of Chicago style politics at its best...Where is the investigative reporters out there.?

SNOPES EXPOSED

Snopes is heavily financed by George Soros, a huge financial supporter of Obama!

“…. In our Search for the truth department, we find what I have suspected on many occasions. I went to Snopes to check this out and they said it was false and there were no such dockets so I ‘Googled’ the Supreme Court, typed in ‘Obama-Kagan,’ and guess what? Yep you got it.Snopes lied. Everyone of those dockets are there. So Here is what I wrote Snopes:

Referencing the article about Elena Kagan and Barak Obama dockets: The information you have posted stating that there were no such cases as claimed and the examples you gave are blatantly false. I went directly to the Supreme Court’s website, typed in Obama Kagan and immediately came up with all of the dockets that the article made reference to.. I have long suspected that you really slant things but this revelation is really shocking.

You exist behind a veil of half truths and distorted facts. Hoping you will be honest and forthcoming in the future is probably expecting too much.

*************

That being said, if you really didn't know THIS then your investigative reporting is a sham;

Kagan was representing Obama in all the petitions to prove his citizenship. Now she may help rule on them. Folks, this is really ugly. Chicago Politics; and the beat goes on and on and on...

Once again the US Senate sold us out! Well, someone figured out whyObama nominated Elana Kagan for the Supreme Court.... Pull up the Supreme Courts website, go to the docket and search for Obama. Kagan was the Solicitor General for all the suits against him filed with the Supreme Court to show proof of natural born citizenship. He owed her big time. All of the requests were denied of course. They were never heard! It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, doesn't it? The American people mean nothing any longer. It all comes down to payback time for those who compromised themselves to elect someone that really has no true right to even be there.

Here are some websites of the Supreme Court Docket: When you look up some of these hearings and guess what?? Elana Kagan is the attorney representing Obama!!!

Check out these examples:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-8857.htm

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-8857.htm

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-6790.htm

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-6790.htm

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-724.htm

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/09-724.htm

If you are not interested in justice or in truth

delete this. However, If you hold sacred the freedoms granted to you by the U.S. Constitution… By all means, please…

PASS it ON!

[1990LS400]

Lenore, do you have anything constructive to offer instead of just passing around silly chain letters?

[lenore]

I believe this forum is exactly for this kind of discussion....Does it bother people that Kagan denies cases against OBAMA and then she gets appointed to her present position. Does it bother people that supposedly SNOPES is the so call watch dog of information and yet they give false information? This bothers me a great deal since many have given snopes as the authority by which to denounce information posted on the internet. As for your comment, I do talk cars and give helpful info all of the time on this and many other forums. But to insult me doesnt justify your opinion which you gave none. At least directly... Funny how everything is denounced, when it comes to statements against progressives, but give a conservative view, and question things to understand what is going on and we conservatives are slapped with statements such as yours. I believe honest discussion and opposing points of views are what a debate forum is about....But I do not appreciate people slamming someone for their views whether contrary or not. I am open to others points of view with a more critical discussion of facts...

[LEXIRX330]

Took care of the double post. I also see nothing wrong with the post. I am a member of a CVO Harley forum and one of their rules is absolutely no politics at all...it's kind of odd I have posted a joke or two there that have been deleted. As long as it remains respectful I am fine with the post.

I just think we need to through all the bums out...require term limits, take away their health care, cut their pay in half, no pension or retirement (only paid while in office) this shouldn't be a career... I could go on but my blood pressure is going up!

[lenore]

Thank you Lexirx330, agree totally with your solutions...

[1990LS400]

I am open to others points of view with a more critical discussion of facts...

By all means lets discuss facts based on our personal experiences and knowledge rather than parroting chain letters that circulate the Internet ad nauseum.

How and why did you get so angry?

If you want to know how Snopes is supported, you can read it about it on their website: http://www.snopes.com/info/aboutus.asp

[SW03ES]

I believe this forum is exactly for this kind of discussion....

Actually, its a Lexus forum.

But to insult me doesnt justify your opinion which you gave none. At least directly... Funny how everything is denounced, when it comes to statements against progressives, but give a conservative view, and question things to understand what is going on and we conservatives are slapped with statements such as yours. I believe honest discussion and opposing points of views are what a debate forum is about....But I do not appreciate people slamming someone for their views whether contrary or not. I am open to others points of view with a more critical discussion of facts...

I don't see how Jim insulted you. What you posted was in fact, a chain letter. Do you deny that? Your original post wasn't a respectful political argument that invited opposing viewpoints on the same level to join into a discussion amongst equals.

If you want to have a real discussion then fine, but posting some ideological chain letter is not inviting a real discussion. This is not your point of view, or an opinion you've formed yourself. Like Jim said...its a silly chain letter.

[lenore]

I believe this forum is exactly for this kind of discussion....

Actually, its a Lexus forum.

Actually it is this kind of forum:

The Club Lounge

Talk about other topics here not related to Lexus.

But to insult me doesnt justify your opinion which you gave none. At least directly... Funny how everything is denounced, when it comes to statements against progressives, but give a conservative view, and question things to understand what is going on and we conservatives are slapped with statements such as yours. I believe honest discussion and opposing points of views are what a debate forum is about....But I do not appreciate people slamming someone for their views whether contrary or not. I am open to others points of view with a more critical discussion of facts...

I don't see how Jim insulted you. What you posted was in fact, a chain letter. Do you deny that? Your original post wasn't a respectful political argument that invited opposing viewpoints on the same level to join into a discussion amongst equals.

the insult came from his first post asking if I had anything better to do than post emails chain letters....His first post did not say anything about the fact that the email was thought provoking and discussing the lack of truth being conveyed by SNOPES as well as the fact that the true information was so readily available on the Government sites. This to me shows that complete dismissal of any views other than progressive views...

If you want to have a real discussion then fine, but posting some ideological chain letter is not inviting a real discussion. This is not your point of view, or an opinion you've formed yourself. Like Jim said...its a silly chain letter.

This is your view (idealogical) not necessarily those of all people on this forum...Some may feel the same as I do. I question everything, both left and right, but dont slam any view just because it isnt mine. Jim did finally post later to debate this. And I feel that is the proper way this forum should be ran.

[1990LS400]

Lenore, my take is that the political right is scared to death of Obama's political skills which they cannot begin to match and that no real skeletons in his closet have been found to exploit. About the best they can do is make stuff up.

I have what may be an above average knowledge of political and economic history and was on my way to becoming a history teacher until I switched my major to something more profitable (computer science) forty years ago. Because I've actually studied the U.S. constitution in detail, I tend to write off the "birther movement" as nutcases, uninformed, or fools, or, perhaps more sinister, political savvy people whose goal is to foment discontent among nutcases, the uninformed and fools.

As a scientist, I doubt if emotions play much of a role in my decision making process - which might explain why I find emotionally charged chain letters containing disjointed snippets of real and "pseudo facts" offensive, silly and/or sad. It might also explain how I've made a living largely by interpreting and "demystifying" technical materials for those who don't want to go to the trouble.

Thankfully, I learned an important lesson in childhood: never, ever pass along a chain letter. Maybe it's not to late for others to learn. Here is a nice overview on the history of chain letters from a useful website: http://www.snopes.com/luck/chain.asp

Now, Lenore, tell me why you are so angry and have expressed such a pattern of anger in past threads on this forum.

[lenore]

Lenore, my take is that the political right is scared to death of Obama's political skills which they cannot begin to match and that no real skeletons in his closet have been found to exploit. About the best they can do is make stuff up.

I have what may be an above average knowledge of political and economic history and was on my way to becoming a history teacher until I switched my major to something more profitable (computer science) forty years ago. Because I've actually studied the U.S. constitution in detail, I tend to write off the "birther movement" as nutcases, uninformed, or fools, or, perhaps more sinister, political savvy people whose goal is to foment discontent among nutcases, the uninformed and fools.

As a scientist, I doubt if emotions play much of a role in my decision making process - which might explain why I find emotionally charged chain letters containing disjointed snippets of real and "pseudo facts" offensive, silly and/or sad. It might also explain how I've made a living largely by interpreting and "demystifying" technical materials for those who don't want to go to the trouble.

Thankfully, I learned an important lesson in childhood: never, ever pass along a chain letter. Maybe it's not to late for others to learn. Here is a nice overview on the history of chain letters from a useful website: http://www.snopes.com/luck/chain.asp

Now, Lenore, tell me why you are so angry and have expressed such a pattern of anger in past threads on this forum.

I am not angry, that is your opinion.... Sometimes people feel they are extremely educated, and live in worlds of superior thought (OBAMA) and quite frankly dont have common sense.

I personally am not happy with either party.. They have done nothing to problem solve the nations problems...As a matter of fact since Lyndon Johnson initiated the great society all we have seen is the distruction of family, work ethics, and morality. We have generations of people that are on welfare, whom raise their children under these conditions which are no more than governmental slavery. It is so sad. I am not angry, but concerned for the welfare of my children and my 9 grandchildren. Their future is not rosey considering the staggering debt that our politicians have created through these uptovian theories of how government can fix everything...There are so many people on the dole that they have lost the will, and desire to better themselves. They are not oppressed (other than by our government) but have been led to believe that government knows better then they do, and will take care of them from cradle to grave. That is why our nation is on a failed path, and we are burying ourselves. We have taxed our corporations higher than any other nation in the world and that is why they have left. We need to reduce these taxes and make a level playing field so that corporations will come back to the United States. This is what will create jobs. The miserable bailouts have done nothing, unemployment is at an all time high, and quite frankly the government doesnt even know where the money went in most cases.

Business is sitting on the sidelines because they are completely frustrated with the lack of direction Obama has taken us. He truely is a socialist, just follow his policies, it is so totally like Mussolini before World War II. Not one Socialist economy has ever succeeded. Look at Cuba, North Korea, Italy, Half of europe, they are all on the brink of financial failure. As for snopes, they obviously felt it more important to deny those dockets rather than give impartial facts. The pattern of coverups and ignoring our Constitution has been disheartening in this Administration. I want to see fresh views not presented as partisan beliefs, but actual problem solving solutions iniated by solid people that have common sense. We cant keep kicking the debt down the road...It needs to be tackled and approached with real world problem solving..I know the progressives feel the Tea Party people and the Liberterians are kooks, but hey they are the real people that still work and are trying to fight this tremendous move toward socialism. They want to put in a honest days work and be proud and rewarded. The Unions, and socialist, progressives feel that everyone should be protected. What a disaster, so then you have folks that dont want to work, and It is perfectly OK for someone else to support them...Our schools of learning unfortunately are full of these progressives. They have never held a real job or created any. The poor kids are subjected to their views, with out giving the balance of the oposite views and then making up their own conclusions. Even in Science you weigh the results of what will or will not happen when you mix ingrediants. Our society is not a science experiment... Our founding fathers fought the British to remove these govenmental imcumbrances, and here we move exactly to what we fought so hard for Freedom to succeed or fail. I too love history, but as many of our great leaders of yesterday have recognized, we need to learn from history and prevent the repeats of failure..

[SW03ES]

This is your view (idealogical) not necessarily those of all people on this forum...Some may feel the same as I do. I question everything, both left and right, but dont slam any view just because it isnt mine. Jim did finally post later to debate this. And I feel that is the proper way this forum should be ran.

Um, when did I post any ideological viewpoint at all? All I said was that what you posted WAS a chain letter. That is not in debate. I also posted that I don't see how Jim insulted you. Nobody slammed your views.

He truely is a socialist, just follow his policies, it is so totally like Mussolini before World War II. Not one Socialist economy has ever succeeded. Look at Cuba, North Korea, Italy, Half of europe, they are all on the brink of financial failure. As for snopes, they obviously felt it more important to deny those dockets rather than give impartial facts. The pattern of coverups and ignoring our Constitution has been disheartening in this Administration. I want to see fresh views not presented as partisan beliefs, but actual problem solving solutions iniated by solid people that have common sense.

Prove it to us. Cite specific examples of things he has said, policies he has implemented, etc that show he "truly is a socialist". Draw comparisons between Obama and Mussolini citing specific examples.

Cite specific examples from the actions of this administration of "coverups" and "ignoring of our Constitution". Cite specific examples and also link them to the specific parts of the constitution that have been violated.

If you can do that, then we can have a serious debate. If not...then you're just posting silly chain letters and there's no independent thought there.

[lenore]

I believe this statement is pretty much an attack on my character:

Lenore, do you have anything constructive to offer instead of just passing around silly chain letters.

that was the first post to my letter. That to me says I am silly and have nothing better to do. I brought this up in a serious light to show my fellow forum members that I was concerned about the prevalent use of public office to hide any counter views...

As for Comparison of Obama and Mussolini you only have to look at General Motors, AIG, and the systematic destruction of our banking system by the feds to see what is happening.

[SW03ES]

I believe this statement is pretty much an attack on my character:

Lenore, do you have anything constructive to offer instead of just passing around silly chain letters.

If you take that as an attack on your character, then how do you get through life in this world on a daily basis?

Its a fair question...what you posted was a "silly chain letter", thats a fact. Why don't you post some ideas of your own backed up by research or knowledge that you've discovered for yourself?

As for Comparison of Obama and Mussolini you only have to look at General Motors, AIG, and the systematic destruction of our banking system by the feds to see what is happening.

You mean the banking system that almost collapsed the world economy and was bailed out by Obama's predecessor, a conservative Republican? AIG? You do realize AIG was bailed out in 2008...and Obama took office in 2009 right?

Again, please specific examples showing that Obama is a SOCIALIST. What specific things has he said, written, and done throughout his life that would lead you to believe he's a socialist? What has he done that paralells things that Mussolini did? Specific examples please.

[1990LS400]

Lenore, now we are getting somewhere. Let's just pick a point or two to discuss so we can keep our answers short and concise.

What's it going to be? Education? Unemployment? How about the effects of the Internet and globalization. Or the impact of derivatives trading on the economy?

And by the way. Most students of history consider Facism to be on the far right of the political spectrum - not to the left of the center where the Democrats reside.

[lenore]

I believe this statement is pretty much an attack on my character:

Lenore, do you have anything constructive to offer instead of just passing around silly chain letters.

If you take that as an attack on your character, then how do you get through life in this world on a daily basis?

Its a fair question...what you posted was a "silly chain letter", thats a fact. Why don't you post some ideas of your own backed up by research or knowledge that you've discovered for yourself?

As for Comparison of Obama and Mussolini you only have to look at General Motors, AIG, and the systematic destruction of our banking system by the feds to see what is happening.

You mean the banking system that almost collapsed the world economy and was bailed out by Obama's predecessor, a conservative Republican? AIG? You do realize AIG was bailed out in 2008...and Obama took office in 2009 right?

Again, please specific examples showing that Obama is a SOCIALIST. What specific things has he said, written, and done throughout his life that would lead you to believe he's a socialist? What has he done that paralells things that Mussolini did? Specific examples please.

Again, you feel it is a silly chain letter....I suppose anything that is not progressive is silly...

And I have gotten through life quite well, Been through every state except Michigan, Lived in 11 states, and three foreign countries. Traveled through out the world, and yes THe United States is still the best place. My experience has been incredible, however I want my grandchildren to have those same opportunities. As for the Banking system, if it had been allowed to fail, we probably would have been better off. Then the strongest would have survived, and those that chose poor business practices would have failed. Unfortunately our government seems to think they can fix it all, that is why we are looking at a 14 trillion dollar debt. Our government treated the social security as a slush fund and rather than keep it independent as it was originally set up. Anytime they find cash, they spend it like crazy. As for Obama, the bailout and government takeover of General Motors, AIG, etc is an example of OBAMA's policies. As Americans are struggling (Except in the Washington DC area) he takes lavish trips and vacations, has had more vacation than any president I can remember, and has a staff that outnumbers any of the past. Yet He has put nothing on paper, continues to make statements that scare the elderly, and gives no real solutions to anything. His Medical Bill is a disaster and again forcing government on folks that dont want it. Yet the Unions have a special privilages in that they dont have to have the Obama care. His whole administration is made up of elitest, a former terrorist, and some communist. IT has been Chicago stlye politics for the last two and 1/2 years.

[SW03ES]

Again, you feel it is a silly chain letter....I suppose anything that is not progressive is silly...

Actually I'm a fairly conservative person myself. My issues with the Republican party as it currently stands comes from their involvement with the radical religious right and attempts to circumvent conservative ideals for the purpose of legislating out of the bible.

I don't care if women want to have abortions, if muslims wan't to build Mosques, or if people say the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance. in 2011, thats what the Republican party is all about. Which is why I left.

Obama is the first democrat I have *ever* voted for.

It IS a chain letter...and chain letters are silly. Therefore...its a silly chain letter.

My experience has been incredible, however I want my grandchildren to have those same opportunities. As for the Banking system, if it had been allowed to fail, we probably would have been better off. Then the strongest would have survived, and those that chose poor business practices would have failed.

And all the economists, republican and democrat, were wrong?

I don't think you truly understand the ramifications of allowing the economy to fail. People would starve to death Lenore...

Unfortunately our government seems to think they can fix it all, that is why we are looking at a 14 trillion dollar debt.

Actually the VAST majority of that debt was incurred fighting overseas wars. The programs we are fighting about make up a very small % of the total federal budget.

As for Obama, the bailout and government takeover of General Motors, AIG, etc is an example of OBAMA's policies.

So he enacted policies before the entered the white house?

Please see the following timeline:

http://www.sfgate.com/timeline/bailout/

As you can see, the federal bailout of AIG clearly happened BEFORE Obama took office. Yes he bailed out GM, and the government has done pretty well off of that deal. Obama's stimulus packages centered around specific New Deal type government programs. Bailous of Wall St banks happened during the Bush administration. Obama took office in the middle of it.

As Americans are struggling (Except in the Washington DC area) he takes lavish trips and vacations, has had more vacation than any president I can remember, and has a staff that outnumbers any of the past.

Lets see some sources. Compare the number of vacations to other modern presidents. Please also furnish us with the amount of staff this administration has, and compare it to the staff that previous administrations have had, and include sources.

And people are struggling here too. My wife has been out of work since 2008...

His Medical Bill is a disaster and again forcing government on folks that dont want it.

How is it a disaster? Please list the specific parts of the plan that you have an issue with.

Yet the Unions have a special privilages in that they dont have to have the Obama care.

Source please, and also please describe what "the Obama care" is.

His whole administration is made up of elitest, a former terrorist, and some communist.

Strong assertion, please list the administration members who are terrorists and communists and source how you came to those conclusions.

Quite frankly? I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. You and people like you hate this guy so much because you've bought into the BS these right wing fanatics have been feeding you hook, line and sinker. You have absolutely no basis for any of these statements or accusations, you simply spout them out there and never even consider for a moment that you might be wrong. Why? I don't know why...I think it might have to do with the guy being young, highly educated...and quite frankly...black.

Prove me wrong.

I don't love the guy, quite frankly I think he needs to grow a pair on these debt ceiling talks. He's a lot weaker than I thought he'd be. I do not however think he's a communist, a socialist, whatever. He's an American, he loves this country same as we all do. What he thinks needs to be done may differ from what you or his opponents thinks needs to be done, but to call him all kind of "anti-American" things like this was 1950s Mccarthyism is whats unAmerican IMHO.

If you want to find someone who's un-American, look at the people who spread those silly chain letters.

[nc211]

OK.... I'm in now too! Those damn Iranians are to blame! OK...I'm out...

[lenore]

OK.... I'm in now too! Those damn Iranians are to blame! OK...I'm out...

Oh too funny....So thats why all of this crap happened....Would you go over there and take care of it....?

[SW03ES]

Typical of the right-wing. When pressed to back up their claims...nothing there.

[nc211]

Actually.... beyond my attempts at humor...I'll chime in on this one...

In my opinion, much of the pain, fear, and error we have all experienced over the past few years is due to the massive shift of wealth. All of this name calling and trying to put labels on policy matters, in my opinion, just clouds the vision and stalls the process of recovery down. I also think a lot of people, me included, get caught up in the moment of what's hot now. Today, it's the debt ceiling. Yesterday it was chasing away energy hunters in the Gulf of Mexico, before that it was death panels for grandma.

I'll admit, at first I was not impressed with this whole healthcare business of Obama. And to be honest, I'm still not quite sure if I like his plan or not, basically because I don't understand it enough to make up my mind. The democrats have absolutley failed on all levels to explain this policy in "American" terms. DC Beltway talk is not "American". BUT, what this Conservative natured, suburbanite who the Tea Party would love to recruit, can say with absolute 110% truth and honesty is: If you are of the opinion that your healthcare coverage is your own business... Then I would invite you to drive down to your nearest children's hospital tonight and have a cup of coffee in the cafeteria. Don't keep your eyes on your feet. Don't make small talk about the weather. Grab yourself a cup of coffee and sit quietly and listen. Let yourself "feel" the room. I promise you, with 100% assurity, you will want healthcare coverage for everyone, even if it costs you more for your own coverage. You will want to make that sacrifice. Why? Because I, one of the only who still says Bush was one of our best, have been in that room. I was there 15 months ago for my son. I'll never forget those moments at 3am in the basement cafeteria of Children's Mercy Hospital in downtown Chicago having a cup of coffee to stay awake, listening to parents quietly wonder how they're going to pay for this. The looks on their faces told the story clearly - they were in the middle of their "worst case scenario", providing for their child at the cost of that's child's standard of living and risking their future of opportunity. Knowing that every minute they are there in that hospital, is a minute closer to losing everything they've acquired to provide for their child. I didn't feel lucky that I was able to provide my son the best of the best, for maybe $100 out of my pocket. I didn't feel proud that the choices I had made in my life leading up to that moment appeared to be the right choices. I felt guilty for it, and I literally wanted to vomit. I'm no "softy", and I firmly believe in the "thinning of the herd" process. You get what you put in. But, on that day, I knew I was wrong. And have felt that way ever since. I don't care who can fix this problem, just fix it! And for those of you (and me) who don't understand enough about this policy to comment with written fact - then don't. We need to ask "how", not ask "why". I've seen the "why". And you can too, in the most cutting and grabbing way possible. All it costs is $1 for a cup of coffee and 30 minutes of your time..

If the banks had not been bailed out, we would've had a HUGE GLOBAL Depression. History clearly shows that much of the Great Depression was caused by the failure of government to act. But, back then, we were a "country". Now, we're a "participant" thanks to technology, and fancy investment derivatives that tie your local credit union around the corner to a bank in Sydney. That being said though - much of this current recession today is caused by government's unwillingness to "get out of the way" of prosperity. This, I agree with completely, and I am ready for the "controlled" reduction of government influence in our daily lives. What was seen as a white knight, has become a hostage taker of the private sector. The FED and the FDIC did exactly as they were meant to do back in 2008 (which the FDIC was born from the Great Depression to prevent another one). But, with opportunity comes consequence. 2008 economic meltdown provided opportunity for those who believe in government control to act. Consequence = Barney Frank. TARP was a consequence to the vast majority of the banks in this country. Many banks will testify to the history books that they didn't want TARP money, but were forced to take it, and didn't touch it. Now, TARP was brought on by Bush, and in theory, it worked. But, TARP continued under Obama, after those who actually needed the money had received it. Obama's team went into those boardrooms and said "you need it too." They said "no, we didnt act foolishly in our investments, we're fine." They said "not when we get done with our review of your books." They will also testify to the history books that they tried and tried and tried to give it back to get the government influence out of their board rooms. Many still are waiting to send the money back, to this day.

Again, right now, here and today, I can't help but hear Reagan's famous one-liner: Government is not the solution to your problems. Government is the problem.

Look, we're entering into yet another election season. Their is blood in the water (moreso in my opinion now than in 2008), and emotions are going to run very high for the next 15 months. Obama is about to be called every name in the book. Not that he's a bad president, but because he is president. In terms of the media coverage of Obama - it isn't going to matter one bit what they say (or don't say) about Obama this time. He could've eaten little kittens on a playground of kids 3 years ago and the media would have loved him for it. Newsflash folks: The media is "for sale". News is "business". But this time, Obama can't hide from the FACT that we're even worse off today than we were when he was elected. We're not out of Iraq. We're not out of Afghanastan. Infact, we're more of a "war" country today than we were in 2008 with Lybia now in the mix. Gitmo is still open for business, gas is even MORE expensive, the world stage is turning on us again, and banks can't push credit out the door with confidence because they still have no idea what the "new normal" rulebook looks like from Congress. ALL of this plays down to the bottom line of what makes this country tick.....consumer confidence. It isn't there, and now after 3 years and $5T of additional debt, Obama gets on TV and says "it's time for us to eat our peas." HEY....BUDDY...We've been eating them for your entire Presidency...where have you been?

Many of us who voted for Obama, were actually not voting for Palin. McCain blew it when that pitpull with lipstick spoke her first words. He did for me, that's for sure! I voted for Obama, because I didn't want Palin anywhere near DC. I don't think Obama has allowed his ego to realize this...yet.. But it's coming..

[SW03ES]

There's not a lot I can add to that, I agree 100% with all of it. Thats the kind of thoughtful dialog Americans deserve...not stupid chain letters and name calling.

My fear is that all of this is going to cause the American people to make the wrong choice for President.

I'm not saying the right choice is Obama, but the right choice for sure is not Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, this yahoo who used to own a Pizza chain and hates Muslims or anybody who doesn't believe in evolution and thinks the world is 2000 years old.

We need a SERIOUS President. I don't see anybody on the other side who's any better than Obama, and they come with the additional baggage of being potentially controlled by Christian extremists. I used to like Mitt Romney before he lost his spine.

[ArmyofOne]

OK.... I'm in now too! Those damn Iranians are to blame! OK...I'm out...

Way to lighten up the mood in here!

OK.... I'm in now too! Those damn Iranians are to blame! OK...I'm out...

Oh too funny....So thats why all of this crap happened....Would you go over there and take care of it....?

No...but I will. <_< I hope you arent insinuating that he wont, cause rest assured he has voiced his opinion to me many times that he wishes he could take my place while I go kick some Tali-!Removed!.

Actually.... beyond my attempts at humor...I'll chime in on this one...In my opinion, much of the pain, fear, and error we have all experienced over the past few years is due to the massive shift of wealth. All of this name calling and trying to put labels on policy matters, in my opinion, just clouds the vision and stalls the process of recovery down. I also think a lot of people, me included, get caught up in the moment of what's hot now. Today, it's the debt ceiling. Yesterday it was chasing away energy hunters in the Gulf of Mexico, before that it was death panels for grandma. I'll admit, at first I was not impressed with this whole healthcare business of Obama. And to be honest, I'm still not quite sure if I like his plan or not, basically because I don't understand it enough to make up my mind. The democrats have absolutley failed on all levels to explain this policy in "American" terms. DC Beltway talk is not "American". BUT, what this Conservative natured, suburbanite who the Tea Party would love to recruit, can say with absolute 110% truth and honesty is: If you are of the opinion that your healthcare coverage is your own business... Then I would invite you to drive down to your nearest children's hospital tonight and have a cup of coffee in the cafeteria. Don't keep your eyes on your feet. Don't make small talk about the weather. Grab yourself a cup of coffee and sit quietly and listen. Let yourself "feel" the room. I promise you, with 100% assurity, you will want healthcare coverage for everyone, even if it costs you more for your own coverage. You will want to make that sacrifice. Why? Because I, one of the only who still says Bush was one of our best, have been in that room. I was there 15 months ago for my son. I'll never forget those moments at 3am in the basement cafeteria of Children's Mercy Hospital in downtown Chicago having a cup of coffee to stay awake, listening to parents quietly wonder how they're going to pay for this. The looks on their faces told the story clearly - they were in the middle of their "worst case scenario", providing for their child at the cost of that's child's standard of living and risking their future of opportunity. Knowing that every minute they are there in that hospital, is a minute closer to losing everything they've acquired to provide for their child. I didn't feel lucky that I was able to provide my son the best of the best, for maybe $100 out of my pocket. I didn't feel proud that the choices I had made in my life leading up to that moment appeared to be the right choices. I felt guilty for it, and I literally wanted to vomit. I'm no "softy", and I firmly believe in the "thinning of the herd" process. You get what you put in. But, on that day, I knew I was wrong. And have felt that way ever since. I don't care who can fix this problem, just fix it! And for those of you (and me) who don't understand enough about this policy to comment with written fact - then don't. We need to ask "how", not ask "why". I've seen the "why". And you can too, in the most cutting and grabbing way possible. All it costs is $1 for a cup of coffee and 30 minutes of your time..If the banks had not been bailed out, we would've had a HUGE GLOBAL Depression. History clearly shows that much of the Great Depression was caused by the failure of government to act. But, back then, we were a "country". Now, we're a "participant" thanks to technology, and fancy investment derivatives that tie your local credit union around the corner to a bank in Sydney. That being said though - much of this current recession today is caused by government's unwillingness to "get out of the way" of prosperity. This, I agree with completely, and I am ready for the "controlled" reduction of government influence in our daily lives. What was seen as a white knight, has become a hostage taker of the private sector. The FED and the FDIC did exactly as they were meant to do back in 2008 (which the FDIC was born from the Great Depression to prevent another one). But, with opportunity comes consequence. 2008 economic meltdown provided opportunity for those who believe in government control to act. Consequence = Barney Frank. TARP was a consequence to the vast majority of the banks in this country. Many banks will testify to the history books that they didn't want TARP money, but were forced to take it, and didn't touch it. Now, TARP was brought on by Bush, and in theory, it worked. But, TARP continued under Obama, after those who actually needed the money had received it. Obama's team went into those boardrooms and said "you need it too." They said "no, we didnt act foolishly in our investments, we're fine." They said "not when we get done with our review of your books." They will also testify to the history books that they tried and tried and tried to give it back to get the government influence out of their board rooms. Many still are waiting to send the money back, to this day.Again, right now, here and today, I can't help but hear Reagan's famous one-liner: Government is not the solution to your problems. Government is the problem.Look, we're entering into yet another election season. Their is blood in the water (moreso in my opinion now than in 2008), and emotions are going to run very high for the next 15 months. Obama is about to be called every name in the book. Not that he's a bad president, but because he is president. In terms of the media coverage of Obama - it isn't going to matter one bit what they say (or don't say) about Obama this time. He could've eaten little kittens on a playground of kids 3 years ago and the media would have loved him for it. Newsflash folks: The media is "for sale". News is "business". But this time, Obama can't hide from the FACT that we're even worse off today than we were when he was elected. We're not out of Iraq. We're not out of Afghanastan. Infact, we're more of a "war" country today than we were in 2008 with Lybia now in the mix. Gitmo is still open for business, gas is even MORE expensive, the world stage is turning on us again, and banks can't push credit out the door with confidence because they still have no idea what the "new normal" rulebook looks like from Congress. ALL of this plays down to the bottom line of what makes this country tick.....consumer confidence. It isn't there, and now after 3 years and $5T of additional debt, Obama gets on TV and says "it's time for us to eat our peas." HEY....BUDDY...We've been eating them for your entire Presidency...where have you been?Many of us who voted for Obama, were actually not voting for Palin. McCain blew it when that pitpull with lipstick spoke her first words. He did for me, that's for sure! I voted for Obama, because I didn't want Palin anywhere near DC. I don't think Obama has allowed his ego to realize this...yet.. But it's coming..

I will throw this in for humor:

Not because I think there is any merit to it, but because thats what politics (in my opinion) has become as of late...a big joke. The bottom line is, the mess we are cleaning up right now, all the spoiled food we are chewing is because of mistakes WE (as americans, not just the politicians) made over the last 2, or even 3 decades. I wonder how long one can live outside their means before their world comes crashing down? America has been doing this for YEARS. Maybe those mistakes were electing the wrong people? Maybe not. Maybe those mistakes were buying that starbucks when you should have put your $5 in the savings account, or put $100 more in your IRA that month. Or maybe even investing in gold instead of stocks? Gold is at 1600 dollars an ounce today. Thats nuts, I am thinking I might actually SELL what I have invested in it. (I use the term "you" to describe average joe, not anyone in particular.) But if I do sell it, what do I get? US Dollars? That could possibly be totally worthless in the next 2 years? Maybe...but I get to spend it now!

Point is, the only people who can change the mess we are in, is US (Americans). We need to team up as a whole and take responsibility for our past mistakes, and our own future's, instead of blaming the person/people in the "driver's seat".

There's not a lot I can add to that, I agree 100% with all of it. Thats the kind of thoughtful dialog Americans deserve...not stupid chain letters and name calling.My fear is that all of this is going to cause the American people to make the wrong choice for President.I'm not saying the right choice is Obama, but the right choice for sure is not Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, this yahoo who used to own a Pizza chain and hates Muslims or anybody who doesn't believe in evolution and thinks the world is 2000 years old.We need a SERIOUS President. I don't see anybody on the other side who's any better than Obama, and they come with the additional baggage of being potentially controlled by Christian extremists. I used to like Mitt Romney before he lost his spine.

I agree with both of you as well. I think the presidency since Carter has become more and more of a "look-at-me-I'm-President" thing than a "I-truly-believe-that-we-as-American's-can-make-a-difference" thing. The harsh reality is that any more, the executive and legislative branches are driven by money and (in my opinion) a good amount of corruption.

[lenore]

funny how the progressives always attack the Christians....I find that disgusting...Just because you are a Christian doesnt mean that you are extreme. THis country was founded by Christians...and all the progressives want to do is tear down the founding fathers doctrine that gave freedom for Religion and excessive Taxation. The values that we have lost in the last 50 years is the cancer of our society. Progressives have thrown dollar after dollar in programs that have created a whole class of welfare slavery....I feel sorry for these folks, but maybe money would have been better spent demanding the education of these folks so that a job would be the carrot at the end of the road. I know of what I speak, I have experienced it in my own family...I have tried with money, but that doesnt work. Education and job placement is what is needed. Seems the charities do a better job at doing that, and spend a great deal less. Groups like the Salvation Army, etc are to be admired for their efforts and what they do. Churches (yes right wing) constantly are trying to help their communities....Funny the Christian faith seems to do a lot of good for our fellow man.

Obama? a choice, well you got it and he as far as I am concerned is the worst since Jimmy Carter...Clinton did far better in steering this country, yes made mistakes here and there, but didnt destroy us.

I have talked to so many small business owners, and they are frustrated...Government has tied their hands, and the unknown has made it even worse on trying to figure out what your goals are for growing business. Shame you dont listen to folks like the Pizza man, or Michelle Backman. And as usual you have taken the distrust of muslims by Mr Cain out of context which is typical with progressive thinkers. Listen to his message, he wants to fix things...What in the heck as OBAMA fixed? more war zones and undeclared wars with no money to support them. (Oh are we still not doing Afghanistan and Lybia) The real culprits are Iran, and Saudi Arabia... with Yemen not tagging far behind. I listen and watch all networks and it is amazing to see facts so falsified....MSNBC, CNN, Fox. Sitdown and watch and listen, with an open mind, decipher what you are hearing and make some logical conclusions...

By the way chain letters are a method thru the internet to spread what the media fails to do, which is try to give some facts in our rediculous society. It is no more different than newspapers, magazines, Radio, and TV. Yes you do have to weed out the garbage, just like what you hear on the news...It is more grass roots and what our country men really believe, not what the Beltway idiots want us to believe. Washington is a sesspool of some of this nations most radical ideas, and unfortunately dont support the "silent majority". Well those days are gone, we are tired of groups like the SLA, Black Panthers, SIEU, trying to direct our government through militant rallys, itimidation, and huge sums of money given to the Progressives so that their agenda will only be heard.

NC You are a master at communication, I wish I had your skills, but I am a hard working blue collared worker (38years in a major corporation), a Father, Grandfather (9 babies that I would give my life for) and last but not least according to some in Washington a potential terrorist, (janet napolitano) A proud Vietnam Veteran. I have sacrificed most of my life for my country, my family, and I will be darned if I will lie down to the progressives that want to eliminate God from our monuments, money, and pledge to the United States. When we eliminate any counter to one view in this country this country will no longer be a represented democracy... I hope everyone thanks their grace every night for the freedom that our forefathers bled and lost their lives.

I know Bush II was severly hated by the media, but at least he loved this country...Misstakes yep, But I have never seen the likes of Michelle Obama claiming "for the first time she is proud of her country"....How sad. We have made huge strides toward equality in this country, And I for one dont like the branding of color on anyone...I would like to see the day when color was blind and we referred to ourselves as AMERICANS, not the race card pushing folks like JESSE and others. Heck I have all of the races in my family and I consider them family, not my Black sister in law, etc. OBAMA made history but what his wife said was the most classless statement I have heard from a first lady.

I am completely opened minded, but dont belittle my views whether they be "SILLY" chain mail, or otherwise based on your matra statements that progressives always say when it doesnt agree with the form book.

Tell me why what I started this post SNOPES should be supported 100% when they failed to give the facts. I support your view to be different, and I respect that, thank goodness I fought for your country to provide you that freedom...

[lenore]

Army of 1 Thanks josh for jumping in, I very much enjoy your views. I too was young once and the politics of the day were very disturbing (Vietnam war). Heck I was spat on in Oakland California while being processed at the Army induction center...I had no choice, our govenment said you will register and get a physical...Those were very disturbing moments in my life, I was 18 and Strangers were calling me baby killer, etc...and I wasnt even in the Service...I am proud to have served (UNITED STATES NAVY) and I will look back and generally only remember the good times. That moment in Oakland was not what represented my life in those years...Beware Josh, you defend this nation, but your leaders can make decisions that are not good, or good. You (sorry to say) have no rights, because you are a service man...compared to the folks that didnt serve and have the freedom to spit on our flag, or not support your effort. I understand. My father was a 20 year veteran, and I am proud of you for carrying on the traditions that make our country great. Your view is important. May be different from mine, but very important, because at any moment you can be in harms way. Thank you so very much for your service, and again good luck. I will put you personally in my prayers until your safe return.

[SW03ES]

funny how the progressives always attack the Christians....I find that disgusting...Just because you are a Christian doesnt mean that you are extreme. THis country was founded by Christians...and all the progressives want to do is tear down the founding fathers doctrine that gave freedom for Religion and excessive Taxation. The values that we have lost in the last 50 years is the cancer of our society.

First of all I am NOT a "progressive", so stop calling me that.

And I have no problem with Christians, I was raised Christian as were my parents and their parents. I personally am not religious, but I don't fault anyone for being religious as that is their choice. I believe in something higher, I think our consciousness passes over to something beyond when we die. I believe in living a good and moral life. What doesn't work for me is organized sit in a church every week religion. I agree with you, religion does a lot of good...but it doesn't do no harm either.

As you said, the issue is RADICAL Christianity just like the Muslims trying to build a Mosque in Mufreesboro, TN aren't the problem, its RADICAL muslims. In my opinion though, the modern day Republican party has been taken over by RADICAL evangelical Christians that seek to dictate to those who may not believe in their religion that they must live according to the tenants of their religion. They have made it their goal to dictate what women can do with their own bodies, what other religions can build in terms of places to worship, who can and cannot get married when the only argument for their position is some ficticious book that they take as the word of God. Thats great that its the word of their God, but it is not MY God. As you said, this country was built on the foundation of freedom of religion whether it was founded by Christians or not. It was founded by white people too, does that mean only they have rights? Founded by Men too, do only they have rights? The bible should not even come into question when it comes to legislation.

A conservative is supposed to let people make their own choices right? So why is it wrong, according to Republicans for the government to force people to buy healthcare, to make the wealthy pay slightly higher taxes, to regulate how business is conducted to protect the citizenry, but its not wrong for the government to bar women from having abortions, legislate abstinence education and disallow publicly available contraceptives, to keep !Removed! people from getting married, to disallow Muslims from building mosques and to force by law school children to recite a pledge of allegiance that references a God their family might not believe in?

Why? Because of the bible. Because the bible says its right. Sorry...I don't give a !Removed! about the bible. I don't care if you do, but keep it out of my face.

When the radical evangelicals are driven out of the Republican party, I and those like me will be back. Until then we'll have to make due with what we've got on the other side.

Obama? a choice, well you got it and he as far as I am concerned is the worst since Jimmy Carter...Clinton did far better in steering this country, yes made mistakes here and there, but didnt destroy us.

I have talked to so many small business owners, and they are frustrated...Government has tied their hands, and the unknown has made it even worse on trying to figure out what your goals are for growing business. Shame you dont listen to folks like the Pizza man, or Michelle Backman.

I have built, grown and sold several small businesses in my short life. I am a very successful small businessperson. I don't have to talk to small businesspeople, I am one.

What, specifically have your small business owning friends said are specific Obama administration policies that have "tied their hands"? Because...I see no such impediments in my businesses...

And as usual you have taken the distrust of muslims by Mr Cain out of context which is typical with progressive thinkers.

Again, I am NOT a progressive thinker. Sorry, but I don't lend any credence to anybody so openly affected by their own bigotry and prejudice. You can't take distrust of an entire race of people "out of context".

Washington is a sesspool of some of this nations most radical ideas, and unfortunately dont support the "silent majority". Well those days are gone, we are tired of groups like the SLA, Black Panthers, SIEU, trying to direct our government through militant rallys, itimidation, and huge sums of money given to the Progressives so that their agenda will only be heard.

LMAO! I live in Washington my friend, and I can't remember the last time my commute was interrupted by a "militant rally". Its not 1967 anymore.

I will be darned if I will lie down to the progressives that want to eliminate God from our monuments, money, and pledge to the United States. When we eliminate any counter to one view in this country this country will no longer be a represented democracy... I hope everyone thanks their grace every night for the freedom that our forefathers bled and lost their lives.

God is not a political figure. I respect you and your sacrifice and service to this country, but this is a new world...its a world belonging to my generation...not yours. Its time you let us chart our own course. You were asked to fight for this country, not God. If you chose to fight also for God, that was your choice. But God does not BELONG on those monuments. I don't really care whether he's there or not, and I have a sneaking suspicion if the radical Christian right would end the assault of Homosexuals, Muslims, and Women you'd find "progressives" wouldn't care so much about "God" being on a monument or a dollar bill. They bring that fight to you to hurt you, because you hurt them.

I know Bush II was severly hated by the media, but at least he loved this country...Misstakes yep, But I have never seen the likes of Michelle Obama claiming "for the first time she is proud of her country"....How sad. We have made huge strides toward equality in this country, And I for one dont like the branding of color on anyone...I would like to see the day when color was blind and we referred to ourselves as AMERICANS, not the race card pushing folks like JESSE and others. Heck I have all of the races in my family and I consider them family, not my Black sister in law, etc. OBAMA made history but what his wife said was the most classless statement I have heard from a first lady.

A quote as taken out of context as the one's you're lamenting that those that disagree with you use about Hermann Cain.

I am completely opened minded

I don't see you as having one iota of an open mind. Sorry.