03 Ls430 Catastrophic Sludge Problem

[curiousB]

Since your option is to replace the engine at around $5-7k repair you might want to try some other fixes first. If they don't work then you're not much worse off than the new engine (i.e. $7k plus $150 is still pretty much $7k). If it ruins the engine how is this worse than where you sit today?

You can't sell the car like this without disclosing that you know what’s wrong with it. You've just made it known to a few hundred people on this forum that you do know (and you've included a handy photo to track you down with). Hopefully you see the ethical issue there.

You're only complaint in this thread is low oil pressure and it seems you feel that is due to clogging of the inlet screen at the oil pump. Then why not try a few back to back oil changes with some type of oil detergent/flush like this one:

www<dot>lubegard<dot>com/~/C-182/LUBEGARD+Engine+Flush

Doesn't seem you have much to lose in trying other than $100 or so. Insignificant compared to the alternative.

[1990LS400]

If in fact the car did overheat once, could that plague the engine for the life of it?

Absolutely!

I think Dave has the answer. Perhaps there were regular oil changes (I wouldn't call 10,000+ between changes very "regular") but overheating an engine can damage it beyond hope ... been there, done that and then sold the car for salvage.

There is no way you could win by taking a repair shop to court on this issue. You were not the owner when the work was done. Besides, you probably bought the car "as is" without warranty as is the case in most private sales. Don't waste your money on legal action.

And don't write off "rinky dink repair shops". During my 45 years of car ownership, independent repair shops generally been head and shoulders above franchised auto dealers when it comes to workmanship.

Where's our favorite former owner of a rink dink repair shop -- Billy! Stick up for your kin!

[SRK]

I'm old enough now thanks.

I mentioned the antifreeze because when it mixes with oil it creates a nasty sludge. What is inside your engine may very well be overheating, lack of oil changes, or possibly some other chemical added to the engine - for who knows what purpose. But the dark appearance looks like oxidation to me.

You may not believe me, and that's ok, but I have a great deal of experience in these matters. What happened to your engine, and obviously you as the purchaser, is indeed a shame, but it is highly unusual. And also not the fault of the engine. It's the previous owner, or a vandal, or a fraudulent service mechanic or all three.

So if you are intending fix it, and not bail out back to Mercedes, I'd advise buying another engine from a wreck, at the best price possible. Unlike some cars, there isn't that much demand for these engines as they rarely wear out and you should be able to get a good deal. The labour to re and re would be 15-20 hours tops I would think.

SRK

[LEXIRX330]

I would also try anything in the engine first seafoam or such and do a couple back to back oil change to see if that works. What have you got to loose...how much would a couple of cans of seafoam and the oil and filters cost? If not as others have said find a used engine at a salvage yard or bail out before putting another dime in it.

I also don't think you would have a leg to stand on as far as a legal case against the shop. I wouldn't waste the money and I would just fix the car or get rid of it.

[amg280]

2

[amg280]

2

[billydpowell]

after spending 30+ years of running my own shop and several years prior to that building,rebuilding and repairing gasoline engines, your photos are sights I have seen many times. The answer as to how that happens, is simple. DONT CHANGE YOUR OIL.

A man I knew bought a new mercury and never changed the oil, at 78k miles, it would not start. It was towed in and when we took the drain plug out, the oil would not drain, we put a screw driver in the drain, and pulled it out, the oil was so thick it would not even fall off the screwdriver shaft. this is a true story.

now you can tell us anything you want to, but the proof is in your photos. That engine has been severly neglected, go buy anything you want to, and neglect it, and the results will be the same.

I have stories that would blow your mind.... people are dumb, and then try to blame something or somebody for the failure.

Here is my A in front of my rinky dink repair shop, you can see all 7 stalls, singles and doubles.

sometimes I still miss it

[landar]

I had a friend with a brand new Ford Bronco II (mid 1980's) who did not change the oil for the first 25k miles. When he finally took the car in for an oil change, the oil just "glopped" out like thick syrup. The mechanic could hardly believe his eyes (neither could I). The engine ran for maybe another 20k miles before it had to be replaced.

When I ask my friend why he did not change oil every 5k, he told me that he did not know that oil was supposed to be replaced. His exact words were "Dad never changed his oil". Or so he thought. To us its almost second nature, but some people really do not have a clue when it comes to basic maintenance.

One other thing. If you overheat an engine, the oil very rapidly breaks down. You might get the overheating issue solved but if you fail to immediately change that compromised oil, it is as if the oil had not been changed in a long time even if it were just recently done.

[billydpowell]

One other thing. If you overheat an engine, the oil very rapidly breaks down. You might get the overheating issue solved but if you fail to immediately change that compromised oil, it is as if the oil had not been changed in a long time even if it were just recently done.

yes YES yes,

[curiousB]

I bought the car 2 months ago and paid a VERY good price.

Not sure what a "VERY" good price is but market price would be $10-14k for the car. If your price was "WELL BELOW" market perhaps you are being a little ambiguous with the disclosures you received upon purchasing. Since you are quite willing to park the car away until spring and put a new engine in it doesn't sound like this repair has come at a total surprise. Caveat emptor.

[SW03ES]

I have been active on Lexus forums for like 13 years, I've had multiple LS vehicles in my family totaling over 300,000 miles of from-new driving. I have never heard of one instance of the V8 motor sludging...ever...

I can say with the utmost confidence that vehicle has NOT had regular oil changes, at least not throughout its entire life. What you are dealing with is a vehicle that has been incredibly poorly cared for, and even with a vehicle as reliable as the Lexus you can't just fail to maintain it and expect it to last.

There's a guy I play poker with who was telling us the other night he leases cars and prides himself on never changing the oil. He adds oil, but never changes it. When we all were aghast he said "Its a rental...why would I change the oil?". Unfortunately for you I think your vehicle was at one time owned by a jerk who did the very same thing and what we are seeing is the end result of that, which would make sense looking at the fact that the first oil change record you have was from 35,000 miles...about the end of a typical lease term.

Get mad at the dealer...get mad at yourself...but coming on here and saying things like the LS is a glorified Avalon is going to get you nowhere. Thats like blaming your genetics for a heart attack when you eat 3 hamburgers a day for life.

[dcfish]

I have been active on Lexus forums for like 13 years, I've had multiple LS vehicles in my family totaling over 300,000 miles of from-new driving. I have never heard of one instance of the V8 motor sludging...ever...

I can say with the utmost confidence that vehicle has NOT had regular oil changes, at least not throughout its entire life. What you are dealing with is a vehicle that has been incredibly poorly cared for, and even with a vehicle as reliable as the Lexus you can't just fail to maintain it and expect it to last.

There's a guy I play poker with who was telling us the other night he leases cars and prides himself on never changing the oil. He adds oil, but never changes it. When we all were aghast he said "Its a rental...why would I change the oil?". Unfortunately for you I think your vehicle was at one time owned by a jerk who did the very same thing and what we are seeing is the end result of that, which would make sense looking at the fact that the first oil change record you have was from 35,000 miles...about the end of a typical lease term.

Get mad at the dealer...get mad at yourself...but coming on here and saying things like the LS is a glorified Avalon is going to get you nowhere. Thats like blaming your genetics for a heart attack when you eat 3 hamburgers a day for life.

[billydpowell]

I have been active on Lexus forums for like 13 years, I've had multiple LS vehicles in my family totaling over 300,000 miles of from-new driving. I have never heard of one instance of the V8 motor sludging...ever...

I can say with the utmost confidence that vehicle has NOT had regular oil changes, at least not throughout its entire life. What you are dealing with is a vehicle that has been incredibly poorly cared for, and even with a vehicle as reliable as the Lexus you can't just fail to maintain it and expect it to last.

There's a guy I play poker with who was telling us the other night he leases cars and prides himself on never changing the oil. He adds oil, but never changes it. When we all were aghast he said "Its a rental...why would I change the oil?". Unfortunately for you I think your vehicle was at one time owned by a jerk who did the very same thing and what we are seeing is the end result of that, which would make sense looking at the fact that the first oil change record you have was from 35,000 miles...about the end of a typical lease term.

Get mad at the dealer...get mad at yourself...but coming on here and saying things like the LS is a glorified Avalon is going to get you nowhere. Thats like blaming your genetics for a heart attack when you eat 3 hamburgers a day for life.

please tell me why you have this long trail of seemingly wasted space in your post????

[LEXIRX330]

I have been active on Lexus forums for like 13 years, I've had multiple LS vehicles in my family totaling over 300,000 miles of from-new driving. I have never heard of one instance of the V8 motor sludging...ever...

I can say with the utmost confidence that vehicle has NOT had regular oil changes, at least not throughout its entire life. What you are dealing with is a vehicle that has been incredibly poorly cared for, and even with a vehicle as reliable as the Lexus you can't just fail to maintain it and expect it to last.

There's a guy I play poker with who was telling us the other night he leases cars and prides himself on never changing the oil. He adds oil, but never changes it. When we all were aghast he said "Its a rental...why would I change the oil?". Unfortunately for you I think your vehicle was at one time owned by a jerk who did the very same thing and what we are seeing is the end result of that, which would make sense looking at the fact that the first oil change record you have was from 35,000 miles...about the end of a typical lease term.

Get mad at the dealer...get mad at yourself...but coming on here and saying things like the LS is a glorified Avalon is going to get you nowhere. Thats like blaming your genetics for a heart attack when you eat 3 hamburgers a day for life.

please tell me why you have this long trail of seemingly wasted space in your post????

Billy what do you mean? His post appears the same as your?

[SW03ES]

My posts look normal to me too...

[alxservice]

Hi,

it looks like, oil and/or filter have never been done for along time. or low quality oil or wrong viscosity oil is used for a long time.

To fix your problem, I would recommend you replace oil pump, pick up screen,valve covers, valve stem caps. before replacing all these, you should wash the engine with pressure brake clean fluid or hot water.

you can try to wash engine with either fluid when the lower oil pan is removed and seal it and put 5.5 qts ATF (dexron mercon 3 has detergents )and run vehicle 1-2 hours or use gunk engine sludge removal or diesel fuel to clean engine, replace oil and filter again.

if you dont have blue smoke coming from exhaust your vehicle will be as good as before.

good luck

[billydpowell]

My posts look normal to me too...

very strange, I get about 4 blank pages, trying to get to the bottom of yours.

I must have something "turned on" but I am not smart enough to know what it is..

I thought everyone could see it, thought it had something to do with management??

oh well..

[landar]

Billy, what browser are you running? Some version of Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE), I am guessing.

Depending upon your computer and operating system, you may want to experiment with a different browser. You might want to download and try Firefox. Its free.

[AzHotLS]

I use Firefox at home and never have problems but one of my work computers has IE6 and I get what billy is seeing every once and a while. I suspect billy has IE6. Refreshing the page will resolve it sometimes, others I have to close IE6 and relaunch it. I think there must be some HTML code in this new forum that IE6 doesn't like.

[billydpowell]

Billy, what browser are you running? Some version of Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE), I am guessing.

Depending upon your computer and operating system, you may want to experiment with a different browser. You might want to download and try Firefox. Its free.

I am running IE8... latest one, XP Pro,w/sp3, intel pentium 4, 3.06 speed with 3 gig ram with a 300hd & a 180hd, the 180 is a backup for various files I cant afford to lose..

what are you using? ( dont much care for firefox)

[SW03ES]

I've heard that issue a couple times from people, they updated their IE and it went away...

[ArmyofOne]

This is why I do not buy leases or rental vehicles. I refuse. And as far as not changing oil on leases, MOST companies charge if you cannot provide proof of regular maintenance on turn in. I know the big 3 do anyway.

[Micah.Berry]

Hi,it looks like, oil and/or filter have never been done for along time. or low quality oil or wrong viscosity oil is used for a long time.To fix your problem, I would recommend you replace oil pump, pick up screen,valve covers, valve stem caps. before replacing all these, you should wash the engine with pressure brake clean fluid or hot water.you can try to wash engine with either fluid when the lower oil pan is removed and seal it and put 5.5 qts ATF (dexron mercon 3 has detergents )and run vehicle 1-2 hours or use gunk engine sludge removal or diesel fuel to clean engine, replace oil and filter again.if you dont have blue smoke coming from exhaust your vehicle will be as good as before.good luck

Very interesting! I have not heard of using ATF as a cleaning agent for an engine that is "sludged."

Just showing my inexperience here, but I thought valve stem caps were located on tires, and generally used for inflating said tires... Would the valve covers be cleanable versus replaceable? My valve cover on my old Miata was a snap to remove and could easily be cleaned and the cover gasket replaced. I realize that the LS has valve covers that are considerably more difficult to remove than my old Miata, but wouldn't they be just as cleanable?

Micah

[alxservice]

that should be valve stem seals

[ArmyofOne]

Yes, micah, they are just as removeable and cleanable. And yes, you can use ATF to clean an engine, I do it alot. I have done it in this Ram as well, about an hour before my first oil change. Just dont run ONLY ATF in it. Reason being is that temps kill ATF. ATF is good till about 180 degrees, which is where engine temps typically range. After that, ATF breaks down rapidly. Draining a quart of oil and replacing that with ATF is more than sufficient for most engines, once every 50k or so, run it for 10-15 mins before you drain your oil.

In the case of this LS, you might need to run straight ATF. I believe I would go ahead and take drastic measures before sourcing out an engine that is bound to be hard to find.

If you decide to try it, buy about 24 quarts of the cheapest DexronIII you can find, usually about a dollar a quart. I would not run it long. I would say clean all the crap out of the pan and valve covers. seal it back up, Fill it with straight ATF, then run it for about 2-3 minutes. The drain. Change the filter, repeat with ATF again, and again a 3rd time with a new filter. On the 4th change, drain completely, fill with your reccomended oil and another filter, and play the waiting game. As long as you can get it clean, you may not have done any permanent damage.