Good-Bye 400H

[LexRexBlue]

Just traded my '06 RX400h for a '10 RX350 because acceleration was smoother and felt better. While its great to save gas, the 400h has some idiosyncrasies. I did drive the new 450h before making my decision. Sorry to say I felt like I was driving in my old car. Overall, I'm really impressed with the difference and the big jump in technology in the RX 350. Even the NAV and tech changes since my '08 IS are significant. What a pleasure to transfer my contacts from my iPhone. While far from perfect at least Lexus is going in the right direction.

[cduluk]

How can you get a smoother acceleration from that of the Rx400h's CVT?

The 010 Rx350 is slower, too.

[maseace]

The hybrid system in the 400h is still higher tech than anything in the RX350.

[Agosin]

Just traded my '06 RX400h for a '10 RX350 because acceleration was smoother and felt better. While its great to save gas, the 400h has some idiosyncrasies. I did drive the new 450h before making my decision. Sorry to say I felt like I was driving in my old car. Overall, I'm really impressed with the difference and the big jump in technology in the RX 350. Even the NAV and tech changes since my '08 IS are significant. What a pleasure to transfer my contacts from my iPhone. While far from perfect at least Lexus is going in the right direction.

I'm afraid you have been confusing 350 - 400 - and 450 or alternatively confusing water with tequila, or maybe both..

lol.. ;-))

[LexRexBlue]

The 400h has quick acceleration that is smooth but noisy. The 350 is smoother and quieter riding (obviously not including the electric coasting).

[LexRexBlue]

They incorporated much of the tech learned from the 400h to the newer RXs. The new positioning of the driver's seat for easy access, the handles to fold down the back seats from the trunk, the capabilities of the nav, cooled seats, tech in general, the new shape of the seats are all improvements. Even the quality of the leather is better. The 450h has these improvements too, but somehow driving it felt like the old 400h.

Sorry I feel like a traitor.

[katzjamr]

the seats are better in the 2010 rx's, i drove a new one as a loaner during my 60K service, i did like the look of the new gps screen, and finally there is an ipod connection. i did miss the touch screen for the nav, the click system is more cumbersome. cvt trans and power and economy of the hybrids is still better than the regular rx in my opinion. the new styling is less appealing on the outside especially the rear treatment. its about 300 lbs heavier i think, and yes driving the 2010 hybrid ( the loaner was a non hybrid and a salesman let me drive a new 450h) is still very similar to the 400h, i would like to see a new generation of battery before i invest in a new rx.

[cduluk]

I hope to God that the seats in the 010 Rx are better than the ones in the 04-09 Rx. The seats in mine are TERRIBLE! At least compared to my previous Rx300 seats (which were great).

The only thing appealing (at least to me) about the 2010 Rx is the keyless start system, ventilated seats, heads up display system, and... well, that's it. I'm 21 yo and i don't even use an ipod (unless i'm on vacation and i need to entertain myself on a plane) so the ipod interface doesn't really appeal to me. The Rx400h already has the ability to play 6 MP3 discs, which is MORE than enough for me.

If the 010 Rx was in ANY way physically appealing i'd take it over the Rx400h. :D But for those that can live with the physical appearance of the 2010's, i think it's a great car full of GREAT tech.

[SW03ES]

The Hybrid powertrain isn't for everyone.

The 2010 is growing on me a lot. I like it from the rear and rear quarters, and I like the 450H from the front (the bumper, grille & lights are different than the 350) but I still don't care for it from dead front, or dead side.

The interior I love.

[RXREY]

That's so interesting, the few times that I have had the 350 as a loaner, I couldn't wait to get my 400h back! I do like the "pull-back into the seat" of the initial acceleration in the RX350 but after that, the 400h is so much faster and SMOOTHER at speed...like on the freeway..NO comparison, the 400h is a rocket compared to the now annoying shifting that I can't help but to feel.....as far the MPGs, many people that own a Lexus don't really care that much about the extra cost but I do like getting the extra 6 to 8 mpgs..it does make a difference to this little college professor...but as far as I am concerned, the 350 is fine, but the 400h is in a different class. By the way, I had to have a rental for 10 days and got a Ford Edge...man, was I glad to get my 400h back! The 350 is somewhere in between. But the 350 is a fine car...but it's no 400h!

[cduluk]

That's so interesting, the few times that I have had the 350 as a loaner, I couldn't wait to get my 400h back! I do like the "pull-back into the seat" of the initial acceleration in the RX350 but after that, the 400h is so much faster and SMOOTHER at speed...like on the freeway..NO comparison, the 400h is a rocket compared to the now annoying shifting that I can't help but to feel.....as far the MPGs, many people that own a Lexus don't really care that much about the extra cost but I do like getting the extra 6 to 8 mpgs..it does make a difference to this little college professor...but as far as I am concerned, the 350 is fine, but the 400h is in a different class. By the way, I had to have a rental for 10 days and got a Ford Edge...man, was I glad to get my 400h back! The 350 is somewhere in between. But the 350 is a fine car...but it's no 400h!

Couldn't have said it better! <_<

[Jim Clark]

That's so interesting, the few times that I have had the 350 as a loaner, I couldn't wait to get my 400h back! I do like the "pull-back into the seat" of the initial acceleration in the RX350 but after that, the 400h is so much faster and SMOOTHER at speed...like on the freeway..NO comparison, the 400h is a rocket compared to the now annoying shifting that I can't help but to feel.....as far the MPGs, many people that own a Lexus don't really care that much about the extra cost but I do like getting the extra 6 to 8 mpgs..it does make a difference to this little college professor...but as far as I am concerned, the 350 is fine, but the 400h is in a different class. By the way, I had to have a rental for 10 days and got a Ford Edge...man, was I glad to get my 400h back! The 350 is somewhere in between. But the 350 is a fine car...but it's no 400h!

Couldn't have said it better! <_<

You'll be happy with either one. The difference in power isn't that much, the 400/450 wins by a slight margin due to the torque of the electric motors. If you like the feel of the 350 better, get that. The payback on gas savings with the more expensive hybrid is 5+ years.

[RXREY]

The difference on the freeway is very different. The two times that I have had the 350, I didn't like the shifting on the freeway and I hated not being able to smoothly and very quickly accelerate while going 60plus MPH. The 400h is just a lot better.....I have had mine for 5 years so I guess the extra cost has paid off but the feel...well, I can't put a price on that CVT transmission. I want to have this another five years and so far, it feels like it will be fine for that long and I will be able to sell it pretty easily....I hope....it will have about 100k on it by then.

[SW03ES]

What I don't like about the 400h vs the 350 on the highway is that the CVT causes some engine drone, the 350 keeps it in a nice low gear keeping the engine quieter.

[RXREY]

What I don't like about the 400h vs the 350 on the highway is that the CVT causes some engine drone, the 350 keeps it in a nice low gear keeping the engine quieter.

I don't know what a drone is...but I don't have it...my car just goes and it goes fast..the 350 never feels as good...but I guess that's why we can all buy the car we want. I always like getting my car back and I like dropping the RX350 off. It feels more like the Ford that I had for a week, the Ford Edge...except the Ford Edge handled corners better than both my 400h and the 350....but that was really the only thing...But I had to admit, the Ford felt cheaper than either! But the 350 and the Edge both had that transmission that shifts and I don't like that any longer and I can feel it in everyone's car now.

[RX400h]

What I don't like about the 400h vs the 350 on the highway is that the CVT causes some engine drone, the 350 keeps it in a nice low gear keeping the engine quieter.

The electric motor sound is very noticable only when accelerating rather briskly. Under most normal driving conditions, the RX400h is very quiet. Here in and around the big city, payback for a hybrid RX comes much quicker, especially since we were able to reduce our taxes by $2000. And since gas prices tend to average over $3.00/gallon, buying an RX350 makes sense only if you plan to sell it after 3 years or so or if you rarely drive your vehicles.

[RXREY]

Yes, exactly...I live in LA area, probably more hybrids are driven here in the SoCal area than anywhere else in the world and with good reason, traffic is slow and gas is well over $3! I've had mine five years and I think it should be fine for another five. It's long been paid for so I just don't think about a non hybrid now. My next car I hope that I will have a full electric. In five years I think it's realistic to say that I will have options and the electric stations will be all over. The school that I teach at, Art Center College f Design, being known for car design...has already had electric stations in the parking lot. Anyway, happy trails. Rey in SoCal....

[sublexusgrl]

Yes, exactly...I live in LA area, probably more hybrids are driven here in the SoCal area than anywhere else in the world and with good reason, traffic is slow and gas is well over $3! I've had mine five years and I think it should be fine for another five. It's long been paid for so I just don't think about a non hybrid now. My next car I hope that I will have a full electric. In five years I think it's realistic to say that I will have options and the electric stations will be all over. The school that I teach at, Art Center College f Design, being known for car design...has already had electric stations in the parking lot. Anyway, happy trails. Rey in SoCal....

i hope that in SoCal the elctric movement is happening faster than in the midwest. Everyone is falling all over themselves to discuss the Chevy Volt, until you learn it's 40K, drives 40 miles on a charge, and then the age old question, where is the electric grid that can handle this capacity (if everyone were to go electric suddenly)... interesting conversation though, a hybrid isn't even on my radar, maybe in ten years??

-jen

[RXREY]

Yes, here in SoCal, hybrids pay off instantly. When I am stuck on the freeway, there is a calming aspect to my car being "Off", not doing anything and not polluting at all during those traffic jams. I think the info about the Volt is wrong...but anyway, people will hate things until they understand them.....there was a time when there weren't enough paved roads nor gas stations and people thought nothing could take the place of a horse....well, here we are again... My hybrid just feels better than any car that I have driven and the CVT is awesome...the "No shifting" is the most fabulous thing that I DIDN'T know about my car when I bought it. If you are in the midwest, none of this matters...but here, it ALL matters. The aggravation on the freeways, the pollution, gas at $3.35...stand still traffic.... I grew up here in the 70's when pollution was ghastly....I know it was the EPA that changed all that but hybrids help. Now that I have finally made some money, I like to help where I can. I thought this was a Lexus "HYBRID" site...why is there so much nasty negative talk about this car? Just keep driving your gas only car and be happy...I will do the same with my 400h. Eventually I will get the electric only. Expensive, yeah but new technologies are paid first by us with money and then eventually everyone will be able to afford it..it was the same when I bought my firs computer for about 2 grand and it was NOTHING like what I have now. With the electric vehicle... I have the station at my school parking lot...and the cars go a lot further than 40 miles...what they mean is that they can go 40 miles before the gas engine has to "Help"..now do you see where you are not understanding? So for me, I CAN go anywhere pretty much without the gas engine to kick on.....You know that the electric car HAS a small gas engine as well, right? It's the opposite of my hybrid.... In a couple more years, you'll be able to go 100 miles before the gas turns on to help.....Remember your first computer? What was that like and how long ago was that?

[BobBass]

As usual, Rey, very thoughtfully put.

We're fortunate to NOT be stuck in many traffic jams, but just two weeks ago while approaching Maine on I-495 we were in a MAJOR one. My mileage INCREASED by .4 while inching along. Takes a bit of the "edge" off the frustration.

[RX400h]

i hope that in SoCal the elctric movement is happening faster than in the midwest. Everyone is falling all over themselves to discuss the Chevy Volt, until you learn it's 40K, drives 40 miles on a charge, and then the age old question, where is the electric grid that can handle this capacity (if everyone were to go electric suddenly)... interesting conversation though, a hybrid isn't even on my radar, maybe in ten years??

-jen

Hopefully, solar power will come down in cost. Here in So Cal, the sun shines almost every day so the hope is that we can store some of that energy and heat for use in our homes and vehicles, economically. Perhaps midwesterners can produce electricity via wind-capturing devices as well.

[SW03ES]

I don't know what a drone is...but I don't have it

If you don't know what it is, how can you say you dont have it?

You do have it, it just doesn't bother you. I've driven probably 20 Toyota Hybrids...the only one I have not driven is the LS600hL. If you drive a 400h and then a 350 back to back on the highway at 70MPH, the 350 has less engine noise and the engine note when accelerating is very different, and IMHO is much more refined sounding in the 350. Is it a HUGE difference? Not at all, but the difference is there and its a characteristic of the CVT, not the hybrid powertrain per se. The engine on a car with a CVT tends to "drone", let out a monotone note vs the rising and falling note of a car with a conventional transmission. The reason there is more engine noise when cruising on the highway is that the engine is often running faster in the CVT, because there's no overdrive gear for it to settle into. If your RX had an RPM gauge you'd see that at 75 MPH the 350 runs at lower RPM than the 400h. Pull out to pass in the 400h and the acceleration feels great, very smooth and linear but the engine note is very brash and unrefined IMHO. The 350 may have to downshift, but I prefer the way the engine sounds.

It may or may not matter to you, but the difference is definately there. Our Prius is the same way, I just drove a Jeep Patriot with a CVT on a 320 mile roadtrip and it was also the same way. On the highway I don't care for the CVT.

[sublexusgrl]

<I thought this was a Lexus "HYBRID" site...why is there so much nasty negative talk about this car? Just keep driving your gas only car and be happy..> No hate from me at all dude, just conversation. i am glad you enjoy your contribution to the environment and your car. i was comparing your situation to the situation of many American's who do not live in Southern California.

<With the electric vehicle... I have the station at my school parking lot...and the cars go a lot further than 40 miles...what they mean is that they can go 40 miles before the gas engine has to "Help"..now do you see where you are not understanding?> i did understand that in the first place, it is simply my opinion that i am not going to rearrange my life to purchase this car, and i also understand it is not a hybrid, however it is part of the environmental vehicle trend. my point was, i feel it is "overhyped" for many people in America. Not so perhaps for SoCal and that is fine. Do you think you are in the majority or the minority for having an electric car station in your employers parking lot?

<So for me, I CAN go anywhere pretty much without the gas engine to kick on.....You know that the electric car HAS a small gas engine as well, right? It's the opposite of my hybrid.... In a couple more years, you'll be able to go 100 miles before the gas turns on to help> That is right, in a couple of years... and many, many more years for the rest of America.

i was really just attempting to offer an opinion from someone in the Midwest.

Edited for grammar & cohesive thought process :)

jen

[SW03ES]

Rey gets all hurt whenever anyone says anything even remotely negative about the RXh...he's a wee bit "dramatic".

He thinks people who prefer other vehicles to the RXh should not post here. Seeing as I'm in charge that won't be happening any time soon ;)

I do agree with you, an electric car is a great concept but it has a LONG way to go before its going to be a viable or attractive alternative for mainstream buyers. The Hybrid is mainstream because it can be driven like any other car, until an electric car can be driven like any car, cost what any other car costs and be refueled in 10 minutes or less...its not going to be viable to a mainsteam buyer.

I posted very similar viewpoints to yours on PriusChat.com a few weeks ago where I also post and basically got called a !Removed!, a Republican, and an eco-terrorist in 35 pages of insults...all for very rationally and respectfully saying what I just said above and what you said.

The "Eco" bunch are a special bunch.

[lemon]

I don't know what a drone is...but I don't have it

If you don't know what it is, how can you say you dont have it?

You do have it, it just doesn't bother you. I've driven probably 20 Toyota Hybrids...the only one I have not driven is the LS600hL. If you drive a 400h and then a 350 back to back on the highway at 70MPH, the 350 has less engine noise and the engine note when accelerating is very different, and IMHO is much more refined sounding in the 350. Is it a HUGE difference? Not at all, but the difference is there and its a characteristic of the CVT, not the hybrid powertrain per se. The engine on a car with a CVT tends to "drone", let out a monotone note vs the rising and falling note of a car with a conventional transmission. The reason there is more engine noise when cruising on the highway is that the engine is often running faster in the CVT, because there's no overdrive gear for it to settle into. If your RX had an RPM gauge you'd see that at 75 MPH the 350 runs at lower RPM than the 400h. Pull out to pass in the 400h and the acceleration feels great, very smooth and linear but the engine note is very brash and unrefined IMHO. The 350 may have to downshift, but I prefer the way the engine sounds.

It may or may not matter to you, but the difference is definately there. Our Prius is the same way, I just drove a Jeep Patriot with a CVT on a 320 mile roadtrip and it was also the same way. On the highway I don't care for the CVT.

Yes, the CVT is louder under full acceleration and at full accleration it does sound brash and unrefined - I agree. All other times, I'd argue not.

As to the RPM being higher at a CONSTANT cruising speed on the highway I doubt it, but I wonder how you come to this conclusion, since you don't have a 400h or a 350, nor does the 400h have an RPM gauge. On the other hand I have a 400h, and I own a Scangauge II, which will tell me the RPMs of the vehicle. Next time I'm on the highway, I'll get up to 75mph and see what the Scangauge shows. All you need to do is post what the RPMs are on a 350 at the same speed.