Lexusfreak Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I've been the owner of 2 Lexus ES's & hold them in very high regard with being an overall satisfied owner & I definately have the 2010 ES on my short list for my next vehicle purchase in 2012. This article however (directed more towards the Toyota brand over Lexus mind you) does bring up some fair points I feel looking back over several generations of models (SW you have been mentioning the interior quality being lower in current generation ES compared to our generation for example)... Considering that Toyota is taking it on the chin bigtime as of late, is Toyota losing (or has lost) their way...? http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hammer-ti...toyota-reality/
nc211 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 There is no question in my mind that Toyota is starting to slip a bit. It's the price of having the #1 bullseye on your back. When you are the benchmark for all others to be judged against, it's only a matter of time before those being judged will mimick and catch up to you. The trick is to evolve faster than the guy coming up behind you. That's the trick, and the gamble. Move too quickly, and you'll miss something (like floormat anchors). Move too slowly, and you'll get passed before you know it (Carolla vs. new Civic and Mazda 3GT). No doubt in my mind that Ford will reclaim the top spot in the all around American family sedan market with the new Taurus. I think it's just a matter of time, and of course the currency balancing between the yen and the dollar. SWO will attest this; if it's not selling, it's priced too high for what it is. I think the new Taurus offers more pound per dollar than the Accord or Camry. I think it looks better, I think it's probably more comfortable, and I'm hoping Ford has learned the benefits of proper mounts that insulate the cabin from noise. At the end of the day, Toyota is the one to beat, and you can bet everyone in the game is aiming to beat them. But in my opinion, a stripped down tin can that runs forever is probably going to appeal to more folks, than a fully loaded electrical and mechanical nightmare for the same price. The Big Three have their breathing room now to make adjustments. Much like the airline industry has had several times when they too get into touble. And like the American airline business, I'm willing to bet the Detroit boys will not just bounce back, but roar back! I'm really excited to see what comes out of these design studios! Especially Chrystler with the influence of Fiat! Granted, it'll probably be a total piece of crap, but probably one funky and sexy piece of crap! Not quite sure what the author of that article meant by barking about the quality of the last generation of the Supra. Have you checked the prices for a used Supra turbo lately? They're freakin INSANE! Now, that says something..
Lexusfreak Posted January 27, 2010 Author Posted January 27, 2010 And as I type this...Breaking News on CNN...Toyota halts sales (new & used) on 8 popular models... :( I really like the new styling of the new Taurus nc...I agree with you...I was almost drooling over the new SHO too! B) AWD, 365 HP....two big beefs though....it's 'portly' at well over 4,000 lbs for the SHO model....and I'll be damned if I pay that kind of coin for a Ford...it's over $50,000 Canadian! Ford must be S%&tting me! :chairshot: I'm gonna check it out at the Canadian Int Auto Show next month...& I'll get Ford to give me a list of SHO owners who only go to the grocery stores...that are over 60 years of age...and find out when they are gonna trade em in! When it comes to cars like that, I love depreciation.
SW03ES Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I'd buy a new Taurus over a Camry any day of the week. In fact, I'll take it one step further. In the current market...I wouldn't even consider a Camry. Sonata...Taurus...Genesis on the upper models...blow the Camry out of the market. The Accord is still a lot of car...again blows the Camry out of the market. Mazda 6...the list goes on. Toyota better watch it.
Lexusfreak Posted January 27, 2010 Author Posted January 27, 2010 More on the accelerator pedal recall with a Youtube video... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota%e2...ences%e2%80%9d/
Lexusfreak Posted January 27, 2010 Author Posted January 27, 2010 Okay, does anyone have any additional information on the accelerator pedal issue? I ask because of this article...and it mentions the 2002 - 2004+ Lexus ES 300's & 330's... http://www.sandiego6.com/mostpopular/story...IuxTtxrK4Q.cspx This whole family was killed...and he was a CHP officer. I'm starting to get a little confused if the problem lies with the floor mat or the accelerator pedal...or both...? My gut is telling me that this recall isn't quite over yet...
1990LS400 Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I'm starting to get a little confused if the problem lies with the floor mat or the accelerator pedal...or both...? Me too. A cousin's 2009 Camry is subject to the accelerator pedal recall. I looked at her Camry last Saturday and found myself wondering how on earth could any kind of floor mat get tangled up in her accelerator pedal. Maybe I'm missing something.
RX in NC Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 It's more than a floor mat issue and going forward, Toyota's future may very well be determined by whether or not the floor mat issue was used as a cover-up story to mask the much more serious potential problem of faulty accelerator design.... My mother traded her trusty 1997 Accord in on a 2010 Camry late last summer and now sincerely regrets not getting a new Accord instead. I tried to convince her to let me find her a nice 3-year-old just-off-corporate-lease Accord, but she wanted new. You just can't argue with your mother sometimes....
Lexusfreak Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 'Damage Control'...a summary of recent events...& yes the recall looks like it will be expanded, but details are vague... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-re...-disaster-city/
The G Man Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 As far as recalls are concerned, this is as big as it gets. People getting killed, hundreds or thousands of cases, millions of cars recall, a total stop production and stop sale. There is no doubt Toyota will face some set back by this. How the buying public will react after it’s all said and done will make or break Toyota. A few family member of mine owns Toyotas, they are in the panic mode. My sister in law want to sell her Highlander even though it’s not on the list. She use the Highlander to drive her kids to school and day care. What I have been telling her and others is what Toyota recommend to do in the case of sudden acceleration. Put both feet on the brake, shift into neutral and shut of the engine. You guys will be very surprise to know how many drivers do not know this sequence of action.
tim john Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 who's going to buy a new or used Lexus right now? I would sell my 04 ES, but I wouldn't get anything for it now. Just wait it out and see what happens. Are dealers going to lay all there people off and just keep service open? Tim
nc211 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I heard on the radio this morning that isn't just a Toyota problem anymore. Ford is involved now too with some of their commercial vehicles, and have haulted production on those vehicles as well. Apparently, this is a CHINA problem....SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!!! Ford has haulted production on the vehicles that use the same parts supplier for the same kind of parts in the throttle setup that Toyota has been using, in China. I swear, when will the lights go on and companies come to the realization that China made products are CRAP! Lead based paint in childrens toys, toxic drywall in homes in Florida, tainted baby formula, and now cars accelerating on their own and killing people....... what is the single thing all of these things have in common..... CHINA!!
RX in NC Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I don't eat chicken chow mein any longer because of potentlal mercury poisoning....
tim john Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 My 04 Impala's trunk latch is made in China, car made in Canada. Last time I ate Chinese food I got sick. Tim
Lexusfreak Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 As far as recalls are concerned, this is as big as it gets. People getting killed, hundreds or thousands of cases, millions of cars recall, a total stop production and stop sale. There is no doubt Toyota will face some set back by this. How the buying public will react after it’s all said and done will make or break Toyota.A few family member of mine owns Toyotas, they are in the panic mode. My sister in law want to sell her Highlander even though it’s not on the list. She use the Highlander to drive her kids to school and day care. What I have been telling her and others is what Toyota recommend to do in the case of sudden acceleration. Put both feet on the brake, shift into neutral and shut of the engine. You guys will be very surprise to know how many drivers do not know this sequence of action. You forgot to add...steer safely to the shoulder or side of the road. ;)
Lexusfreak Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Yikes...they are calling it 'Mat-Gate', 'Pedal-Gate' & The 'Pinto' Experience! Toyota is getting their A$$ES handed to them.....bigtime. Okay, I've got it... How about a truth in advertising campaign when the dust settles with this...? What would you call it? The Lexus / Toyota Total Embarrassment & Humiliation Event!! Slogan: Our reputatiuon is tarnished & your resale value is in the crapper...let's make a deal! :whistles: Or something along those lines... Included is a $25k voucher toward any new Lexus...with recalls corrected.
Kyle Petree Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I don't eat chicken chow mein any longer because of potentlal mercury poisoning.... My 04 Impala's trunk latch is made in China, car made in Canada. Last time I ate Chinese food I got sick.Tim I will never stop eating Chinese food. Sesame chicken... mmmmm, I've never gotten sick... and neither my RX or ES have accelerated unintentionally.
tim john Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Or, GM Ford dealers say come on in Toyota, Lexus people, trade that pos in, buy one of our cars! but we can't give you any thing for because we can't get rid of it. Take a loan that you can't afford, buy our new cars! what do mean you live in Mich.? no job? sorry. guess I'll just keep my ES and hope Toyota Lexus service centers stay open for parts and some service. this sucks. Tim
The G Man Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I heard on the radio this morning that isn't just a Toyota problem anymore. Ford is involved now too with some of their commercial vehicles, and have haulted production on those vehicles as well. Apparently, this is a CHINA problem....SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!!! Ford has haulted production on the vehicles that use the same parts supplier for the same kind of parts in the throttle setup that Toyota has been using, in China.I swear, when will the lights go on and companies come to the realization that China made products are CRAP! Lead based paint in childrens toys, toxic drywall in homes in Florida, tainted baby formula, and now cars accelerating on their own and killing people....... what is the single thing all of these things have in common..... CHINA!! You guys should really get your facts straight before you bash China. The faulty part was manufactured by Indiana-based supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) at a plant in Mississauga, just west of Toronto. http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...Yi62BSvKAe5oyLg
nc211 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 The article doesn't say anything about where CTS gets it's materials to build those parts, which is the reason why I heard on the radio this morning that Ford has haulted the production of certain commerical vehicles too, due to a direct connection between the two automakers and one single source of materials used for this part....in China. But, it's still pretty early in this process, so who knows if it's an assembly thing, or a materials used thing..
Lexusfreak Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 According to the link below...Japanese produced Toyota / Lexus vehicles are equipped with accelerator pedals supplied by Denso... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-up...uld-take-years/ And also info from Edmunds... http://www.insideline.com/toyota/toyota-pe...t-affected.html
nc211 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Toyota finally managed to make a Corolla look menacing in your rear view mirror.
The G Man Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 The article doesn't say anything about where CTS gets it's materials to build those parts, which is the reason why I heard on the radio this morning that Ford has haulted the production of certain commerical vehicles too, due to a direct connection between the two automakers and one single source of materials used for this part....in China. But, it's still pretty early in this process, so who knows if it's an assembly thing, or a materials used thing.. Come on, we are going to blame China for the raw materials now? If anybody is to be blame, it should be Toyota, after all they design the part. If its a quality problem, then CTS corp should be to blame since they are in charge of quality control and long term relaibility testing.
nc211 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It's still early in this process, but I'd have to say that a "design" problem, it is not, given the fact that not every Camry on the road is flying down the road out of control, just a very very select few, which have a CTS made part. The cars that have the exact same part, but made by Denso, don't seem to be having this problem. If both are made to exacting specs, then the difference must be in the materials used. As one of the articles mentioned, both Denso and CTS parts are being used by the same plant, so it can't be the plant's fault. The blame is on CTS. The question is: why is their part different from the exact same part being built via the exact same design template from Denso, a company known to not cut corners in the materials it uses to make its products, which is why they cost more in general.
Lexusfreak Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Another interesting read (a little long) which perhaps explain some things related to 'Toyota's Production System'... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/too-good-...r-decontenting/
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