A Canadian Lexus Purchase Rant

[Bobbytbird]

I’m not a complainer. I’m not generally particularly vocal. In fact, I guess most people would say I’m a rather quiet and conservative sort respecting most things. All of that notwithstanding, I am really ‘ticked’ right now and I need to get it off my chest. It has to do with my recent experience buying a new car.

I provided a deposit on a Lexus HS 250H hybrid in June with anticipated delivery in September. In doing so I was expressing my intent to buy a car based on nothing more than information supplied in small part by the dealer and gleaned primarily via the Internet. The Canadian Lexus site was kind of stingy with information, until just recently providing a brief general description only, with additional information and pricing added in the last couple of weeks. But there was a lot of press respecting the introduction of the car in Japan. And the American site! WOW! Significant information has been available on the US site since the Detroit Auto show in January (http://jalopnik.com/5128655/lexus-hs-250h-a-prius-for-the-country-club), and that has been eclipsed lately by multimedia everything and a television campaign built around the idea that ‘SOMEDAY JUST MIGHT BE NOW’. They are using four main ads, all expounding the marvellous technology inherent in the HS 250H; radar, infrared, satellite and sonar.

I looked at the brief list of features on the super-duper Ultra-Premium HS 250H I had ordered in June and wondered why the Canadian description didn’t list all of the functionality I had read about on the web. But an HS 250H is an HS 250H isn’t it? The market is apparently limited to Japan and North America. This isn’t being marketed as a world car with changes nation to nation. Surely the relatively minuscule number of Canadian cars would be essentially the same as the much larger numbers of US cars delivered to these shores. I mean, I ordered the Ultra-Premium HS 250H and was told it had everything included. So I put it down to just a lack of information, a conservative marketing approach consistent with the very limited information on the Lexus Canada website. The difference was just with the ‘juiced-up’ American hype generated by a good marketing campaign. I mean, what else could it be?

And then, after almost four months of waiting I got the dealer invite to drive one of these marvellous high-tech cars. I was ecstatic.

My sales person at the Lexus dealership did a superb job and in fact has performed in exemplary fashion at all times. As the demo concluded, I asked questions. If the demo car was the Ultra-Premium HS 250H with all the options just like the car I ordered, why was the heads up display button plugged with plastic? The demo didn’t include info on the pre-collision system and the TV camera mounted up by the mirror. What about the parking assist? And how do I turn on the wide-view front monitor? What about the dynamic radar cruise control? Where was the lane keep assist and departure system? And why was there no mention of Lexus ‘Enform’?

I was told that this is the Ultra-Premium CANADIAN model of the HS 250H and it doesn’t have those features. Oh, I think to myself. I thought this was an HS 250H like the other people in the world were getting. But now I find out that the technology, relative to what was expected, apart from the very good hybrid system and a few neat but largely inconsequential innovations, consists of a bunch of commands via a very nice and intuitive interface that allows me to operate things like picking the radio station. HMMM! This isn’t the car I have been reading about in the Google reports delivered automatically to my e-mail account every single day for almost four months. This, in my personal opinion, I think to myself, is an emaciated hollow insipid shell of an HS 250H. But how could that be. Was it just my imagination that led me to believe that my car would come with all the ‘bells and whistles’? A July 15 (http://www.canada.com/news/Full+details+Hybrid+ Lexus+250h/1793756/story.html) Internet article on “Driving.ca” seems to infer that the Canadian car is the same as the US car because it is a Canadian publication and they include a full description of the technology features. Surely, I think to myself, an organization the size of Toyota Canada has a public relations department capable of ensuring the rather small and contained Canadian automotive press has the correct information.

But no, I decide that couldn’t possibly be the problem – or at least not the only problem. Why? Because Toyota Canada issued an official Toyota press release on the Canadian model of the HS 250H that stated in part: “An available wide-view front monitor helps the driver to check hard-to-see areas. Using a camera mounted in the front grille, the monitor provides a 190-degree front view on the Navigation screen with the push of a button on the steering wheel.” (http://media.toyota.ca/pr/tci/en/lexus/2010-HS250-release.aspx?link_page_rss=81267) Well, the super-duper Ultra-Premium Lexus HS 250H I was shown didn’t have a front camera and I was told it wasn’t available.

And even in the city where the official Canadian HS 250H launch took place, the September 17th Winnipeg Sun apparently was also a bit confused given they had to print a retraction saying; “The 2010 Lexus Canadian HS 250h does not feature a wide-view front monitor and lane-keep assist. Incorrect information appeared in a story in yesterday's paper.” (http://www.winnipegsun.com/ news/canada/2009/09/17/10948136-sun.html) So what gives? Does Toyota Canada know what they are selling? Do they communicate with the public media? Is it any wonder that people like me who have been waiting with baited breath for several months for their car to arrive feel they have been oversold, led astray, and/or under informed?

So here it is at 3 AM and I can’t sleep and I’m writing this trying to get my head around my disappointment because I have to make a decision. Do I buy what I can only consider to be a ‘husk’ of a car relative to what is available outside of Canada, a car that perhaps I should still consider because, (1) it is probably well made based on JD Powers info on Lexus in general, (2) has a neat mouse-like interface, (3) still has at least a few really neat high tech features not removed, and (4) uses only 5.7 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres? Or do I buy what is arguably a better driving car like the BMW, or what some might consider a better looking car like the Infiniti?

But wait! My dissatisfaction has been communicated and has resulted in at least an attempted explanation by someone who should have the answer. I’m told that all of the technology that has been removed from the Canadian version of the super-duper Ultra-Premium HS 250H is on a common wiring harness and that at least one of the several systems removed relies on the availability of the Lexus ‘Enform’ type communications system, and that because Toyota Canada has not found it economically viable, or not had the time just yet to develop such a system, or buy the technology from the Americans, or perhaps piggyback on the US system, everything on the associated wiring harness had to be removed. OK. The explanation seems reasonable. Lexus Canada has not yet developed facilities comparable to the US Lexus ‘Enform’ operation or even the “OnStar” system used by GMC and others since 1976, so many of the HS 250H features need to be removed. Leaving them on the car in anticipation of Toyota Canada eventually within the life of the car implementing an ‘Enform’ type of system was apparently not an option. Just maybe the number of Lexus cars sold in Canada does not warrant the investment in the computer systems necessary to support the technology inherent with an unadulterated HS 250H. Relative to the USA we are a small country and even with the many advantages we enjoy as Canadians, perhaps our relatively small numbers can work to our disadvantage sometimes. So I have my explanation – or at least one I can sort of push myself to accept and now I should be able to just enjoy the car, albeit without some of the significant safety and convenience features I had really looked forward to. Well – yes and no. There is still a small problem, at least insofar as I am concerned. It has to do with ‘getting what is paid for’.

If I spec out the most expensive HS 250H possible in the USA the total comes to $46,575 US, or $50,313 Canadian. I paid $51,689 Canadian, excluding GST. I‘m OK with it costing somewhat more than the same car sold south of the border. We have higher taxes occasionally, perhaps higher wages in some instances and we operate with smaller orders, and cars like everything else, are cheaper by the gross than by the dozen. Aren’t they?

However, the US Lexus site lists the technology package and park assist at $4,400 US or $4,753 Canadian. Given the package is not available on the Canadian car, it seems reasonable, at least to me, to reduce the price accordingly. Instead, I paid what the Americans pay for their fully configured car, plus an additional $1,376. Or to put it another way, a comparable car costs $6,129 more in Canada than in the USA. Seems just a bit on the heavy side doesn’t it?

Well, time to conclude. I’m a bit of a computer geek. I like the mouse-like interface. I figure if I buy a non-hybrid, gas will probably jump to $3.50/litre this time next month. So I decided to do the Canadian thing. I bought the car. However, although I’m retired and past it in a lot of ways, I don’t feel the kick of satisfaction I really expected, knowing I had opted for a high technology car, because relative to what is available elsewhere, in many respects it isn’t really very high tech at all. So I’m not parting with my money willingly for the car I thought I was going to get.

Instead, I have accepted what seems to be the Canadian experience of not quite getting what is wanted, what is expected, and what is felt is deserved for hard earned dollars. Why do I keep bringing up the Canadian bit? What choice do I have? And the ‘Powers That Be’ know it. For me it is goodbye to the WOW factor and hello to ambivalence. And as a Canadian, I don’t like that one bit!

[1990LS400]

But an HS 250H is an HS 250H isn’t it?

Great rant!

Option and trim packages and relative prices of Canadian spec Lexus vehicles have often/usually been different -- sometimes completely different -- than on US spec cars. What you experienced is nothing new. I've spent quite a bit of time "up there" due to my mother's family fleeing Ontario some years back and I've spent some time in Canadian Lexus dealerships.

Canada is a quite a small car market compared to the U.S. having barely 1/10th the population. Cars sold in Canada are unique to Canada -- Canada spec cars are not like cars sold anywhere else since Canada, like the U.S., has its own requirements.

If standard accounting practices are followed, costs of developing cars specifically for a small market like Canada are going to be built into the retail prices of of cars sold in Canada. Toyota isn't going to charge people in other countries for the cost of developing cars for a unique small market like Canada.

You can solve your problem. All you have to do is to persuade your fellow citizens and elected representatives to adopt all the automotive standards of the USA. While you are at it, you will have to eliminate your use of the metric system for speed limits, road signs and maps.

Good luck with all that.

[Bobbytbird]

Thanks for the feedback. Not sure about the metric issues and going the US route. The whole world is SI pretty well except the US, including Japan where the Lexus was made, so it might be a bit of a retrograde route to my getting a more fully configured Lexus.

But an HS 250H is an HS 250H isn’t it?

Great rant!

Option and trim packages and relative prices of Canadian spec Lexus vehicles have often/usually been different -- sometimes completely different -- than on US spec cars. What you experienced is nothing new. I've spent quite a bit of time "up there" due to my mother's family fleeing Ontario some years back and I've spent some time in Canadian Lexus dealerships.

Canada is a quite a small car market compared to the U.S. having barely 1/10th the population. Cars sold in Canada are unique to Canada -- Canada spec cars are not like cars sold anywhere else since Canada, like the U.S., has its own requirements.

If standard accounting practices are followed, costs of developing cars specifically for a small market like Canada are going to be built into the retail prices of of cars sold in Canada. Toyota isn't going to charge people in other countries for the cost of developing cars for a unique small market like Canada.

You can solve your problem. All you have to do is to persuade your fellow citizens and elected representatives to adopt all the automotive standards of the USA. While you are at it, you will have to eliminate your use of the metric system for speed limits, road signs and maps.

Good luck with all that.

[SW03ES]

What a pain...

Have you looked at the 2010 Prius? In the US you can't get all the tech goodies and the Package V...I think you can in Canada...who knows why.

[smooth1]

Well, unfortunately you accepted the deal. I would have walked away. It's my money. If you want it, yhou have to give me what I want for it. By becoming complacent and accepting your second class citizen status, you justified thier position. In the US, alot of things are the way they are because we won't have it any other way. It's what we want wether it's right or not. If enouph buyers don't buy the HS in Canada because of the options not available, I promise it won't be very long before the dealers are crying to Lexus and the Canadian powers that be. Make it cost them, not you. It sounds to me like you just paid double for a "Lexus" Prius.

I just bought a new car also. (Not a Lexus this time.) I looked at all the makes and models I liked and sat back and waited for them to come to me. As they always do, making offers that seem to keep getting better and better until they give in and give up on me. Then I walk in with the check. LOL!! It appears Canada has a couple things backwards. It's not your previlage to purchase from them. And they sure seem to treat you as such.

Your second mistake was connecting to a product emotionally thru the media machine. Instead of letting it develop thru your hands on interface. If you never heard of the HS 250 before you test drove it, would you have still purchased it for the price you did? I think you may have had alot of "what it could be" residue your sights and didn't quite look at what it is.

[blake918]

That's unfortunate. I would have bought something else. $50,000+ is entirely too much money spend on a car you're settling for.

[cduluk]

Definitely don't accept the HS without the extra features, IMO without them, there's nothing special about it.

You won't be able to sleep at night knowing your HS isn't all the HS it could be <_< Especially when you thought you were getting so much more.

I'd suggest having an HS imported to Canada and having the gauge cluster and the associated components converted to metric; the dealer will be able to do it, and i bet they've done it many times before.

[eatingupblacktop]

Another example of the power of hype and how a lot of us eat it up! Sorry to hear of your disappointment, but I gotta agree with the smooth one.

Here's suggestion. Take away the hype and media coverage, get in the car as if for the first time, take her out on your favorite roads and give'r! Then cruise back. Before getting out of the car, sit there for a few minutes for the cool down, check out the interior, all the features on the car, and reflect on the experience. Now, what price would you pay for a car like this? Remember - no hype or ads allowed during this process!

Time to get down to what really matters!

[Bobbytbird]

Another example of the power of hype and how a lot of us eat it up! Sorry to hear of your disappointment, but I gotta agree with the smooth one.

Here's suggestion. Take away the hype and media coverage, get in the car as if for the first time, take her out on your favorite roads and give'r! Then cruise back. Before getting out of the car, sit there for a few minutes for the cool down, check out the interior, all the features on the car, and reflect on the experience. Now, what price would you pay for a car like this? Remember - no hype or ads allowed during this process!

Time to get down to what really matters!

What you suggest is essentially what I did before I bought the car so I guess great minds think alike. The decision to buy was based on my getting reasonable value for the $. My concern however, extends beyond the car to the way we are treated in Canada relative to the US and I wanted to voice that concern because I don't think it is right. In the US it seems like they price a car based on what it is worth (more or less) while in Canada it is priced on what they think they can squeeze out of their client base. As several folks have correctly pointed out I had several options. I could walk away and buy a Fusion Hybrid, or go to the states and bring one in, or just wait a bit longer for other alternatives to present themselves. Bottom line - I bought the car and that is a statement to what I think of the car. But why can't I buy an even better car and in Canada as an alternative to leaving Canada behind to buy in a different country. I'm not ticked with the car. I'm ticked with getting played as a second class citizen relative to my American cousins by Canadian automotive distributors.

[SW03ES]

They have a LOT of equipment and entire models in Japan that we don't have here...and the cars are cheaper...does that mean Americans are second class citizens also?

[1990LS400]

The decision to buy was based on my getting reasonable value for the $. My concern however, extends beyond the car to the way we are treated in Canada relative to the US and I wanted to voice that concern because I don't think it is right.

B.B., you don't live in the U.S. As I said before, the U.S. is a far bigger market than Canada and development costs for new cars for U.S. market can be spread across far, far more units here than in the small Canadian market.

I think you need to looking at how Toyota/Lexus prices cars around the world.

I was in the U.K. in 1990 during the introduction of the LS400 there. I had just purchased a new LS400 in the U.S. and my car had a list price of just over US$36,000. When the LS400 went on sale in the U.K., the base price there was the equivelant of US$70,000. You think people in the U.K. were happy about the price?

As far as the ways cars are equipped, I was pretty unhappy that my first LS400 didn't have have headlight washers and DRL like the early 1990 LS400 in Canada had. But I didn't go crying about it.

A friend bought an early LS400 in the U.K. and his had some really great standard features not available in the U.S. -- dash adjustable beam headlights, really great headlights with additional high beams, rear foglights, heated rear seats, rear seat cupholders. So what?

I'm a little p1ssed that my 2000 LS400 didn't have the rear seat audio and A/C controls that all 2000 LS400s sold in Australia had. So what?

Or that I couldn't even get a freaking set of mudflaps from a U.S. Lexus dealer for my 2000 LS -- I had to get them from a Lexus dealer in B.C.

The cars that Toyota/Lexus sells and the prices they sell them at are different around the world. Get over it.

[Bobbytbird]

The decision to buy was based on my getting reasonable value for the $. My concern however, extends beyond the car to the way we are treated in Canada relative to the US and I wanted to voice that concern because I don't think it is right.

B.B., you don't live in the U.S. As I said before, the U.S. is a far bigger market than Canada and development costs for new cars for U.S. market can be spread across far, far more units here than in the small Canadian market.

I think you need to looking at how Toyota/Lexus prices cars around the world.

I was in the U.K. in 1990 during the introduction of the LS400 there. I had just purchased a new LS400 in the U.S. and my car had a list price of just over US$36,000. When the LS400 went on sale in the U.K., the base price there was the equivelant of US$70,000. You think people in the U.K. were happy about the price?

As far as the ways cars are equipped, I was pretty unhappy that my first LS400 didn't have have headlight washers and DRL like the early 1990 LS400 in Canada had. But I didn't go crying about it.

A friend bought an early LS400 in the U.K. and his had some really great standard features not available in the U.S. -- dash adjustable beam headlights, really great headlights with additional high beams, rear foglights, heated rear seats, rear seat cupholders. So what?

I'm a little *BLEEP*ed that my 2000 LS400 didn't have the rear seat audio and A/C controls that all 2000 LS400s sold in Australia had. So what?

Or that I couldn't even get a freaking set of mudflaps from a U.S. Lexus dealer for my 2000 LS -- I had to get them from a Lexus dealer in B.C.

The cars that Toyota/Lexus sells and the prices they sell them at are different around the world. Get over it.

The cars that Toyota/Lexus sells and the prices they sell them at are different around the world. Get over it. I think given the length of this thread that the validity of your statement is rather obvious. It was with reference to those changes that I started the thread. Your concluding with where the thread started doesn't make it right. I made mention initially of the fact there are 'world' cars that are sold with differing options and prices across our planet. So I appreciate that. The HS 250H is not one of those world cars. It is sold in Japan and North America only. And I don't really have anything to 'get over'. I'm simply voicing what I think is wrong. It would be nice if your logic allowed me to change my mind about what is justifiably right and wrong. It doesn't.

[SKperformance]

One of the best posts regarding a problem by only relating facts and not opinion.

Well done.

Unfortunatly Toyota Canada is not in tune to is purchasers and only to the bottom line. They might think they are but walk into any US dealer and then a Canadian one after and you will be appauled by the level of service wether for sales service or parts.

It is cheaper and eaiser to fool people into thinking they are getting the same car from the states for a similar price . So they remove the big dollar items so they can buy it cheaper and can say it is close to par when the Canadian one is in no where close.

Cancel your order and buy it from the US , it is a better car and with todays exchange rate quite a bit cheaper.

[1990LS400]

Cancel your order and buy it from the US , it is a better car and with todays exchange rate quite a bit cheaper.

For sure, check with your local Lexus dealer and Lexus Canada before you do this to be clear on warranty coverage on a new U.S. spec Lexus and on parts supply to repair options not available on Canadian spec cars.

U.S. residents have warranty coverage when we take our cars to Canada and the Lexus U.S. website implies that Canadian Lexus dealers have access to the U.S. parts catalog. Odd because my local U.S. Lexus dealer has always been adamant that he can't order parts from the catalogs for other countries including from the Canadian catalog.

It's certainly not difficult to import a U.S. spec car into Canada if you are willing to pay the 7% GST and all the other fees. One of my Ontario cousins did it last year but the car he bought from the U.S. was several years old and I suspect it was pretty cheap.

cduluk said that Canadian dealers can convert instruments on U.S. cars to metric. Since when? In past threads, I've provided the name and website of a Toronto company that can convert instruments to metric on some older Lexus vehicles.

[eatingupblacktop]

Cancel your order and buy it from the US , it is a better car and with todays exchange rate quite a bit cheaper.

For sure, check with your local Lexus dealer and Lexus Canada before you do this to be clear on warranty coverage on a new U.S. spec Lexus and on parts supply to repair options not available on Canadian spec cars.

Don't think Lexus Canada nor Canadian dealers will honour warranty on new U.S. cars purchased by Canadians from U.S dealers. Not sure how they deal with U.S. cars that have been resold here by U.S owners.