Unhappy With Rx450h

[KrazyLexus]

There is one here at CarMax (not CPO though) for $37,998 loaded with everything with only 24k miles. So I am hoping 34-35k by January might be possible!

The cheapest GS 450h I've seen was 38k with 43k miles on it.

Well the 07 GS350's can be had around 28-32k with 40k mile range. The G37 is in the 36k+ new range. And IMHO, I am done with Nissan/Infiniti's. I had two G35s back in 04/05. I really want to switch to a different car manufacture and be happy! :)

So that is the year I am looking at. I would love to have a GS450h if I can find one for under 34k CPO. Never know when January comes around when I am ready to make the switch, there might be some.

Sales do not equate which car is "better" it could all be a matter of perception. The RX is one of the cheapest luxury SUVs you can get(the non hybrid model). The high end highlander (hybrid and non hybrid) sells more than the RX, so does that mean that the Highlander is better (edmunds thinks so).

When we are talking about whether people are comparing the Murano to the RX and if you insist they are, then why are so many more peoplen choosing the RXs? Of course, you can't always equate sales to quality, but many sales trends do point to this as being the case. The Honda Civic, Toyota Prius, etc all show very high sales figures, and for good reason.

Many are choosing the RX because they want a Luxury Crossover. And you get all the loaner cars, more warranty, and stuff that comes with a Luxury car. Nissan, Toyota, and so on you do not. Plus the RX is the cheapest of the batch if you compare the other Luxury crossovers, so yes you will get more people buying them.

That is what I was trying to get at. many people will see the price tag between the two and say I can get a Lexus!!!!! many people do the same between a g35 and a (new) maxima

Same here. I looked at the Maxima, and a full loaded one was like $40k. I was like forget that. I can get a Lexus! Reason why we are looking at a new ES350 and a slightly used GS350 for me.

what year GS350 are you looking for? You could get a G37 brand new with awd for the same price as a used GS350. If you haven't test driven a G37, do it before you make your decision

[Gryphon]

.

You have just earned the "Lexus Owner's Club Shortest Post Award." :)

Tom

[lemon]

Thanks. I'm trying to stick to my 'done with this thread' mantra, and I couldn't find any way to delete the post. I'm sure the '.' will offend someone, though. :D

[SW03ES]

Yeah you can't win LOL

[RX400h]

Thanks. I'm trying to stick to my 'done with this thread' mantra, and I couldn't find any way to delete the post. I'm sure the '.' will offend someone, though. :D

All you had to do was ask!

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Okay, I had to pull out my Consumer Reports auto edition for you two Nissan fans......

According to CR, both the Highlander hybrid and Highlander gas outscore the newly designed Murano, with the Highlander hybrid trouncing the Murano's average fuel mileage by 5 MPG.

. . . . . . . . . . . snip

So what kind of nutjob car company would name a car, "Murano" ?!?

Murano ... er, that's spanish for dirty, stupid, filthy pig.

[KrazyLexus]

Okay, I had to pull out my Consumer Reports auto edition for you two Nissan fans......

According to CR, both the Highlander hybrid and Highlander gas outscore the newly designed Murano, with the Highlander hybrid trouncing the Murano's average fuel mileage by 5 MPG.

. . . . . . . . . . . snip

So what kind of nutjob car company would name a car, "Murano" ?!?

Murano ... er, that's spanish for dirty, stupid, filthy pig.

At least it's a name instead of just some letters and numbers that mean nothing.

Oh and there is no spanish meaning for Murano. I think you just made that up.

Answer

There is no translation for murano from Spanish to English. What language is this? *ChaCha*

[fogcutter]

Hi everyone -- my first post.

I have 1100 miles on my RX450 and I really like the thing. After driving two BMW X5s and a Benz ML over 8 years, the Lexus is like a dream.

No matter how the Germans try to sport up their SUVs, the machines are still SUVs. IMHO their main mission is to 1) haul people and things 2) go in snow.

I appreciate the Lexus approach of providing decent electronics and enough road feel to not be completely numb. It is not a sports car and isn't trying to be a sports car. Wisdom itself.

At first I thought locking out the phone and nav features while moving were a defect, but when the controls came back when I stopped it became clear that this was by design. And yes, it is annoying.

I am really thinking about having the after market module placed that ends this nonsense, but I'll live with it for a while and

see how it goes. I'm not eager to pull the dash on a brand new machine.

I'm averaging 28.5-29 MPG in my day to day driving, up from 18 MPG on the X5, and I'm burning midgrade Shell.

Have to wait a few more weeks to see how it does in snow.

And yes, I miss my Garmin, but I'm getting onto the Lexus Nav. I'm finding it more different than defective, but from some of the posts there may be trouble ahead as I use it more. We'll see.

With any luck they'll listen to the complaints and have a software fix before long, and hopefully before I spring for the module.

Anyway, I like the 450 quite a lot and plan to run the wheels off the thing.

[SW03ES]

At least it's a name instead of just some letters and numbers that mean nothing.

Oh and there is no spanish meaning for Murano. I think you just made that up.

Answer

There is no translation for murano from Spanish to English. What language is this? *ChaCha*

Its a joke buddy...lighten up.

It is a pretty unflattering name LOL.

[suckered]

The RX450h is downright dangerous. The 4 wheel drive does not switch on "on demand" as the advertising says. I live in snowy Massachusetts and do not need permanent 4 wheel drive, but it is essential when the roads are full of snow or ice. I was puzzled at first that the 4 wheel drive only actuated under 25 mph. I tested it on sharp corners in the snow: the back slid out; and on faster, gradual corners: the car side slipped. Never did the 4 wheel drive switch on and correct the slide. I looked in the manual for the method to manually activate 4 wheel drive but couldn't find it. I contacted Lexus. They said that I should use the snow switch. This is a menu item which annoyingly must be switched on every time you drive. It didn't work as it only changes the gear and acceleration characteristics like any other winter/summer switch. They also said that it should work at high speeds when more power is needed. I tried that and found that at 60 mph if I absolutely floored the accelerator on a steep hill the 4 wheel drive would switch on briefly. That's hybrid technology being used to reduce consumption?! I went back to my dealer: what was I doing wrong? They said they'd get back to me. They didn't. I contacted Lexus USA. They had no clue and put me back to the dealer. The dealer promised to pick up the car and test it. After a week of telephone calls they said there was no point in testing the car as it was working "as designed". However it wasn't working as advertised which is that the 4 wheel drive will come on "as needed". I'd say that a broad skid in snow is "as needed". Lexus apparently doesn't, or care. Nobody had ever even tried this feature out despite my frequent requests over many months. They put me onto a "business development" specialist who tried to upsell me on a non-hybrid 4X4 which he said had "a non slip differential" and would therefore have better handling. I am disgusted. Lexus has sold a vehicle on the basis of a safety feature which doesn't work. Relying on it could bring my family (this is my wife's car for ferrying the kids and their friends) into a potentially life threatening situation for them or for other vehicles. All they see it as is a potential new sales opportunity. Hasn't Toyota learned anything from all their recall problems? Don't they care about the safety of their customers? Don't they feel any need to fulfill on their advertising claims? Apparently not. Don't buy this car if you value your life or those of your passengers or others on the road around you, and don't expect any help from Lexus either.

[rcomeau]

The RX450h is downright dangerous. The 4 wheel drive does not switch on "on demand" as the advertising says. I live in snowy Massachusetts and do not need permanent 4 wheel drive, but it is essential when the roads are full of snow or ice. I was puzzled at first that the 4 wheel drive only actuated under 25 mph. I tested it on sharp corners in the snow: the back slid out; and on faster, gradual corners: the car side slipped. Never did the 4 wheel drive switch on and correct the slide. I looked in the manual for the method to manually activate 4 wheel drive but couldn't find it. I contacted Lexus. They said that I should use the snow switch. This is a menu item which annoyingly must be switched on every time you drive. It didn't work as it only changes the gear and acceleration characteristics like any other winter/summer switch. They also said that it should work at high speeds when more power is needed. I tried that and found that at 60 mph if I absolutely floored the accelerator on a steep hill the 4 wheel drive would switch on briefly. That's hybrid technology being used to reduce consumption?! I went back to my dealer: what was I doing wrong? They said they'd get back to me. They didn't. I contacted Lexus USA. They had no clue and put me back to the dealer. The dealer promised to pick up the car and test it. After a week of telephone calls they said there was no point in testing the car as it was working "as designed". However it wasn't working as advertised which is that the 4 wheel drive will come on "as needed". I'd say that a broad skid in snow is "as needed". Lexus apparently doesn't, or care. Nobody had ever even tried this feature out despite my frequent requests over many months. They put me onto a "business development" specialist who tried to upsell me on a non-hybrid 4X4 which he said had "a non slip differential" and would therefore have better handling. I am disgusted. Lexus has sold a vehicle on the basis of a safety feature which doesn't work. Relying on it could bring my family (this is my wife's car for ferrying the kids and their friends) into a potentially life threatening situation for them or for other vehicles. All they see it as is a potential new sales opportunity. Hasn't Toyota learned anything from all their recall problems? Don't they care about the safety of their customers? Don't they feel any need to fulfill on their advertising claims? Apparently not. Don't buy this car if you value your life or those of your passengers or others on the road around you, and don't expect any help from Lexus either.

Have you tried the 450h and another "more capable" AWD in the same tests? I live in a snowy area and I have not lost control of any car since I was a teenager in my old Scirocco. AWD, stability control and snow tires are not magic. You do have snow tires right? If not, its like buying a fire truck to protect your house but don't spend on a smoke detector... These systems only widen the envelope of control. If you have your family out and driving in the snow, you should be keeping away from the edges anyway. Of course unexpected things happen, and we all want the best control and safety, so I'd be interested in hearing about side-by-side tests with comparably equipped 450h and another "better" machine (BMW X-something?).

[suckered]

The RX450h is downright dangerous. The 4 wheel drive does not switch on "on demand" as the advertising says. I live in snowy Massachusetts and do not need permanent 4 wheel drive, but it is essential when the roads are full of snow or ice. I was puzzled at first that the 4 wheel drive only actuated under 25 mph. I tested it on sharp corners in the snow: the back slid out; and on faster, gradual corners: the car side slipped. Never did the 4 wheel drive switch on and correct the slide. I looked in the manual for the method to manually activate 4 wheel drive but couldn't find it. I contacted Lexus. They said that I should use the snow switch. This is a menu item which annoyingly must be switched on every time you drive. It didn't work as it only changes the gear and acceleration characteristics like any other winter/summer switch. They also said that it should work at high speeds when more power is needed. I tried that and found that at 60 mph if I absolutely floored the accelerator on a steep hill the 4 wheel drive would switch on briefly. That's hybrid technology being used to reduce consumption?! I went back to my dealer: what was I doing wrong? They said they'd get back to me. They didn't. I contacted Lexus USA. They had no clue and put me back to the dealer. The dealer promised to pick up the car and test it. After a week of telephone calls they said there was no point in testing the car as it was working "as designed". However it wasn't working as advertised which is that the 4 wheel drive will come on "as needed". I'd say that a broad skid in snow is "as needed". Lexus apparently doesn't, or care. Nobody had ever even tried this feature out despite my frequent requests over many months. They put me onto a "business development" specialist who tried to upsell me on a non-hybrid 4X4 which he said had "a non slip differential" and would therefore have better handling. I am disgusted. Lexus has sold a vehicle on the basis of a safety feature which doesn't work. Relying on it could bring my family (this is my wife's car for ferrying the kids and their friends) into a potentially life threatening situation for them or for other vehicles. All they see it as is a potential new sales opportunity. Hasn't Toyota learned anything from all their recall problems? Don't they care about the safety of their customers? Don't they feel any need to fulfill on their advertising claims? Apparently not. Don't buy this car if you value your life or those of your passengers or others on the road around you, and don't expect any help from Lexus either.

Have you tried the 450h and another "more capable" AWD in the same tests? I live in a snowy area and I have not lost control of any car since I was a teenager in my old Scirocco. AWD, stability control and snow tires are not magic. You do have snow tires right? If not, its like buying a fire truck to protect your house but don't spend on a smoke detector... These systems only widen the envelope of control. If you have your family out and driving in the snow, you should be keeping away from the edges anyway. Of course unexpected things happen, and we all want the best control and safety, so I'd be interested in hearing about side-by-side tests with comparably equipped 450h and another "better" machine (BMW X-something?).

Yes, my other car is a mercedes 4wd sedan. Both have all weather tyres. I have tried exactly the same thing and the 4wd traction kicks in immediately and straightens the car out. The problem with the Lexus is not the tyres, it's that the RX450h 4wd system does not engage at all if the tyres start sliding. The rear electric motor needs to switch on and it doesn't. There is no manual way of switching it on either.

[rcomeau]

Yes, my other car is a mercedes 4wd sedan. Both have all weather tyres. I have tried exactly the same thing and the 4wd traction kicks in immediately and straightens the car out. The problem with the Lexus is not the tyres, it's that the RX450h 4wd system does not engage at all if the tyres start sliding. The rear electric motor needs to switch on and it doesn't. There is no manual way of switching it on either.

Thanks for the extra info. It is disappointing that the 450h does not do more. I do think that calling it downright dangerous might be a bit of a hyperbole though, as that would mean that every front wheel drive vehicle is also dangerous since they don't engage the rear wheels. Winter tires are the law here, and I'd get them before getting AWD (better handling/safety bang for the buck), at least here where it usually stays close or below freezing for 4 months in a row (el ninio and global warming notwithstanding).

We have not been getting much snow here, so I have not had a chance to try doing doughnuts in a mall parking lot yet. I only have had my 450h for almost 2 weeks, and it spent one of those at an airport parking lot. Otherwise, I really love the car. Maybe it is perspective as I came from a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid. The FEH was a good, dependable car (least trouble than any car I've ever owned, or maybe tied with my '87 Mazda 323LX) but lacked a lot of stuff. AWD, but no stability control. You complain about the Nav system? Have a look at that one! Try flipping CDs when you change regions, or having it plot a drive from anywhere in Canada to anywhere in the US (it can't as it has Canada on one CD, and various US regions on others). Try seat heater buttons that are placed next to the seat position switches (out of sight and no on/off tactile feedback)...

[cduluk]

Sounds like the rx450h has the same problem in the snow that the rx400h does

At least the 400h is full time.

[suckered]

Yes, my other car is a mercedes 4wd sedan. Both have all weather tyres. I have tried exactly the same thing and the 4wd traction kicks in immediately and straightens the car out. The problem with the Lexus is not the tyres, it's that the RX450h 4wd system does not engage at all if the tyres start sliding. The rear electric motor needs to switch on and it doesn't. There is no manual way of switching it on either.

Thanks for the extra info. It is disappointing that the 450h does not do more. I do think that calling it downright dangerous might be a bit of a hyperbole though, as that would mean that every front wheel drive vehicle is also dangerous since they don't engage the rear wheels. Winter tires are the law here, and I'd get them before getting AWD (better handling/safety bang for the buck), at least here where it usually stays close or below freezing for 4 months in a row (el ninio and global warming notwithstanding).

We have not been getting much snow here, so I have not had a chance to try doing doughnuts in a mall parking lot yet. I only have had my 450h for almost 2 weeks, and it spent one of those at an airport parking lot. Otherwise, I really love the car. Maybe it is perspective as I came from a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid. The FEH was a good, dependable car (least trouble than any car I've ever owned, or maybe tied with my '87 Mazda 323LX) but lacked a lot of stuff. AWD, but no stability control. You complain about the Nav system? Have a look at that one! Try flipping CDs when you change regions, or having it plot a drive from anywhere in Canada to anywhere in the US (it can't as it has Canada on one CD, and various US regions on others). Try seat heater buttons that are placed next to the seat position switches (out of sight and no on/off tactile feedback)...

You are right. A 2wd car can be driven adequately in the snow. Any car is in itself not dangerous and needs to be driven properly. What is dangerous in my mind is if you expect an advertised safety feature to switch on and it doesn't. Everyone, including Lexus, assumes it does.

[flush]

Sounds like the rx450h has the same problem in the snow that the rx400h does

At least the 400h is full time.

eh? the 400h has full time awd? I've never noticed it from the screen display. only time i've seen the rear wheels kick in - is when driving slowly and making a turn.

[lemon]

Yeah, it's not full time on the 400h. The rear diff (powered by the MGR (rear electric motor or 'Motor Generator Rear' in Toyota speak)) only normally (meaning regularly whether there is wheel slip or not) kicks in upon heavy acceleration and during turns. Of course when there is wheel slip, it kicks in then too. I don't consider this full time.

[SW03ES]

The RX450h is downright dangerous. The 4 wheel drive does not switch on "on demand" as the advertising says. I live in snowy Massachusetts and do not need permanent 4 wheel drive, but it is essential when the roads are full of snow or ice. I was puzzled at first that the 4 wheel drive only actuated under 25 mph. I tested it on sharp corners in the snow: the back slid out; and on faster, gradual corners: the car side slipped. Never did the 4 wheel drive switch on and correct the slide. I looked in the manual for the method to manually activate 4 wheel drive but couldn't find it.

No offense, but I think you may need to learn to drive in the snow a little better...

4WD doesn't give you any benefit in the situation you describe. 4WD helps you to get going from a stop and to power through deep snow. Its not going to help you turn or stop, physics takes over. 4WD will not "switch on to correct a slide" and it doesn't "switch on". Its a constant process of detecting wheelspin in the front and engaging the rear wheels to compensate for it. 4WD...FWD...RWD...all the same when you turn and stop.

What you are describing happening in your Mercedes is the skid control activating and correcting a slide. Your RX has this feature too, and it works well but it can't compensate for poor tires which many have felt the RX comes with from the factory. Mercedes' yaw correction system may be better...but 4WD isn't your issue here. Thats a RWD biased AWD system with a transfer case though...whole nother animal from the RXh...I would expect it to be better.

However it wasn't working as advertised which is that the 4 wheel drive will come on "as needed".

How do you know that the AWD system was not functioning?

[suckered]

The RX450h is downright dangerous. The 4 wheel drive does not switch on "on demand" as the advertising says. I live in snowy Massachusetts and do not need permanent 4 wheel drive, but it is essential when the roads are full of snow or ice. I was puzzled at first that the 4 wheel drive only actuated under 25 mph. I tested it on sharp corners in the snow: the back slid out; and on faster, gradual corners: the car side slipped. Never did the 4 wheel drive switch on and correct the slide. I looked in the manual for the method to manually activate 4 wheel drive but couldn't find it.

No offense, but I think you may need to learn to drive in the snow a little better...

4WD doesn't give you any benefit in the situation you describe. 4WD helps you to get going from a stop and to power through deep snow. Its not going to help you turn or stop, physics takes over. 4WD will not "switch on to correct a slide" and it doesn't "switch on". Its a constant process of detecting wheelspin in the front and engaging the rear wheels to compensate for it. 4WD...FWD...RWD...all the same when you turn and stop.

What you are describing happening in your Mercedes is the skid control activating and correcting a slide. Your RX has this feature too, and it works well but it can't compensate for poor tires which many have felt the RX comes with from the factory. Mercedes' yaw correction system may be better...but 4WD isn't your issue here. Thats a RWD biased AWD system with a transfer case though...whole nother animal from the RXh...I would expect it to be better.

However it wasn't working as advertised which is that the 4 wheel drive will come on "as needed".

How do you know that the AWD system was not functioning?

You can both see it on the power monitor and feel it when it happens. The rear motor turns yellow and yellow arrows show that power is being supplied to the wheels. This did not happen. Secondly you can feel when 4wd corrects a skid, how it switches in corrects onece or twice and gets you back on the straigthaway again. The Lexus never did. As I wrote, I immediately tried it out in my Mercedes and that worked. However, I no longer have this problem. I put action to words and traded my RX450h in for an Audi Q5 yesterday.

[SW03ES]

you can feel when 4wd corrects a skid, how it switches in corrects onece or twice and gets you back on the straigthaway again.

You can believe this if you want, but 4WD does not correct a skid. It may kick on to respond to wheelspin caused by throttle input...but its not going to "get you back on the straightaway". The yaw control is doing that...not the 4WD.

However, I no longer have this problem. I put action to words and traded my RX450h in for an Audi Q5 yesterday.

Good for you...that will be better in the snow I'm sure...but you must have gotten killed in depreciation on the deal...I would have at least tried new tires before I lost several thousand dollars in a trade.

Please though, don't be one of those drivers that thinks he is invincible in bad weather because he has AWD. Your Audi will not steer through a corner better because it has AWD.

[lemon]

Is there not a lock button on the 450h similar to the 350, where the center diff is gets locked? I know the 450h doesn't have a centre diff, but was thinking the lock button might use software to engage the rear motor instead of waiting for slip.

Wonder if the original poster had his VSC turned off or something. Either that or....troll.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Is there not a lock button on the 450h similar to the 350, where the center diff is gets locked? I know the 450h doesn't have a centre diff, but was thinking the lock button might use software to engage the rear motor instead of waiting for slip. ........ snip

No.

The rear motor is electric, and has NO connection to the front drive line. If that doesn't blow your mind enough, consider the 'reverse' factoid: In reverse ... even the ICE delivers 0% power to propulsion ... reverse is strictly electric.

The whole 'lock' concept stems back to the good ol' days, when you'd get out of your 4x4, and twist the front hub locks so that the entire front axle would be engaged. Otherwise it'd spin free, which helped reduce wear & increase mpg's.

.

[lemon]

Yeah, I know there is no physical connection (when I first got my 400h I spent a lot of time under my car admiring things), but thought maybe Lexus could 'force' the rear motor to run continuously via software, thus simulating what happens with the 'lock' switch on the 350, which forces AWD instead of waiting for the wheels to slip first).

The 'lock' concept I'm talking about is actually locking the centre differential, so that the front and rear axles get equal power from the transfer case. It has nothing to do with locking hubs, though in the old days, yes, you had to exit the vehicle to lock the front hubs.

[BobBass]

"Suckered" - as I kept reading your complaints about driving the 450h "at speed" in slippery conditions, my first thought was you should have gotten an AUDI. I doubt that most 400h/450h owners are interested in driving like that in inclement weather - I certainly am not. Looks like you got the vehicle that suits you better and the Q5 is a great vehicle. Enjoy your new gas mileage and "tighter" interior...

"Someone Else" - are you SURE reverse is only "electric" in the 400h? I do not dispute your assertion, but if that's the case, why does the ICE kick in when you put it in reverse and push on the accelerator? It's one of the things that drives me nutz - EVERY time I back up, even when the engine is fully warmed up and the battery is green, the ICE kicks in when I put it in reverse and press on the accelerator pedal. I just assumed it was because Toyota programmed the powertrain to always have the CVT moving the vehicle backwards with some assist from the rear electric motor rather than "overstress" it. It's my understanding that's why you cannot turn traction control "off" - Toyota does not want you to "overstress" the electric drive system. But, then again...what do I know.

Don't flame me if I'm wrong here - just seems dumb that Toyota apparently feels battery power is never enough to move it backwards.

[jayrodclg]

yeah, put it in reverse and punch it in a empty parking lot/street. the engine wont rev, it may turn on but it wont rev high like flooring it in Drive. reverse is all electric i believe it is stated in the manual also.