Would You Do It All Over Again As Your First Car?

[SSamson89]

Hello guys, I'm a college student trying to buy my first car and I've found 2 (91-94) LS400's with 80-90K miles in my area that fit my price. I've done a lot of reading of consumer experiences and the biggest problem that worries me is that though the car is generally reliable if well maintained, if problems do come up repairs can be very expensive. So my question to the forum is "IF you could have your ownership experience all over again(good and the bad), would you have it as your first car?" Any help would be very much appreciated.

[TA in KC]

I don't know. The first-generation LS400s are very dependable cars, but they are still old and need occasional repairs just due to age.

If you don't have a problem with a $500-600 repair bill every once and a while, by all means go ahead and get one.

Otherwise, a newer car that costs about the same, like a Toyota Camry or Corolla, would probably be a better choice.

[1990LS400]

IMO, an LS400 and particularly an aging one is a very bad choice for a busy college student. I've had a bunch of $1,000 to $2,000 repair and maintenance bills over the 19 years I've been driving Lexus LS cars.

I think you would be much better off with a used Corolla or Scion. Even our 98 Camry has been far less expensive to maintain than either of our LS cars over the nine years we have had the Camry.

Wait until you are out of school and established to buy an expensive car. There are a lot more important things than a car.

But if money is no object and your parents are footing the bills, then why not?

[dcfish]

Hello guys, I'm a college student trying to buy my first car and I've found 2 (91-94) LS400's with 80-90K miles in my area that fit my price. I've done a lot of reading of consumer experiences and the biggest problem that worries me is that though the car is generally reliable if well maintained, if problems do come up repairs can be very expensive. So my question to the forum is "IF you could have your ownership experience all over again(good and the bad), would you have it as your first car?" Any help would be very much appreciated.

If $ is not a huge issue, Go for it, You could very well be driving the car after graduation And even drive it into your garage at the lakehouse 10 years from now. Heck, Live a little B)

[Budhah]

Hello guys, I'm a college student trying to buy my first car and I've found 2 (91-94) LS400's with 80-90K miles in my area that fit my price. I've done a lot of reading of consumer experiences and the biggest problem that worries me is that though the car is generally reliable if well maintained, if problems do come up repairs can be very expensive. So my question to the forum is "IF you could have your ownership experience all over again(good and the bad), would you have it as your first car?" Any help would be very much appreciated.

Even an old Lexus, kept clean will set you apart from the other students. First impressions and all. You will actually be treated different by them, and esp the girls. You will find Joy in that car. As long as you keep up the Looks. and maintain her with fluid changes when called for. DO NOT LOAN IT TO A FRIEND>>>>

By the way,, My son is at Purdue, and came home with Footprints in the back window... Standing joke in our family, and he is a bit put out by the kidding.. Wish had bought him a Lexus instead of new Impala..

[jcrome04]

Lol. footprints in the back window... What a guy! B)

There are far more important things than impressing girls and fellow school mates. FAR more important things.

If however it IS the case that "money is no object" then go right ahead for it.

The LS is definitely NOT the car for a struggling college student.

[PureDrifter]

Lol. footprints in the back window... What a guy! B)

There are far more important things than impressing girls and fellow school mates. FAR more important things.

If however it IS the case that "money is no object" then go right ahead for it.

The LS is definitely NOT the car for a struggling college student.

I currently daily my LS and i go to school full time while working part time.

all mods/maint. paid for and done by yours truly.

as long as you're handy with a wrench you'll be alright.

[amcdonal86]

As a college student myself, I think you need to consider the ownership costs of any car. From what I've calculated, the Ls400 has cost me about $0.50/mile so far (gas, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, etc.), but that's because I've only owned it 2 months and did a few suspension related repairs and also got new tires.

I think that the car will probably end up being something like $0.30-0.35/mile in the long run, maybe >$0.40/mile if the price of gas goes up by 50% or so again.

Assuming you drive around 12k miles per year, do you really think you can afford $4200 per year for the car ON TOP of the purchase price? If you can't, maybe a car is not a good idea for you. I really don't think that a Lexus is any more expensive to own than the average used car. I hope this helps.

(P.S. My girlfriend is much more impressed with my LS400 than she was with my '94 Miata!)

[TA in KC]

I really don't think that a Lexus is any more expensive to own than the average used car.

I do.

It sounds like my experiences with our 1992 LS400 and 2000 Camry have been very similar to Jim's.

They are both reliable, dependable vehicles, but both parts costs and mechanics' labor charges are much less for the Camry.

But, the main reason the Camry has been cheaper to own is just because it is newer. Ours has about 80,000 miles and we have never had to do anything to it besides regular maintenance. No unexpected repairs, ever.

Quite different from the 92 LS400 which has required replacement of several suspension components, power steering pump, alternator, power window switches, antenna, etc, due primarily to its old age. The LS has 150,000 miles, but many of those repairs were done much closer to the 100,000 mile mark.

If you are worried about unexpected and expensive repairs, I think you have answered your own question.

In my local classified ads, there are several 2000-2001 Camrys with under 100,000 miles that are all priced at $6500 or less. You'd spend at least that much on a decent 90-95 LS400 with similar mileage. Don't forget that the parts for the Camry and Corolla are much less expensive.

If I was in your situation, with a limited amount of money, and a limited amount of time I could be without my car while it's at the mechanic, I would choose a newer Camry or Corolla. I can tell you from experience that newer cars are much less expensive to own.

[Budhah]

I really don't think that a Lexus is any more expensive to own than the average used car.

I do.

It sounds like my experiences with our 1992 LS400 and 2000 Camry have been very similar to Jim's.

They are both reliable, dependable vehicles, but both parts costs and mechanics' labor charges are much less for the Camry.

But, the main reason the Camry has been cheaper to own is just because it is newer. Ours has about 80,000 miles and we have never had to do anything to it besides regular maintenance. No unexpected repairs, ever.

Quite different from the 92 LS400 which has required replacement of several suspension components, power steering pump, alternator, power window switches, antenna, etc, due primarily to its old age. The LS has 150,000 miles, but many of those repairs were done much closer to the 100,000 mile mark.

If you are worried about unexpected and expensive repairs, I think you have answered your own question.

In my local classified ads, there are several 2000-2001 Camrys with under 100,000 miles that are all priced at $6500 or less. You'd spend at least that much on a decent 90-95 LS400 with similar mileage. Don't forget that the parts for the Camry and Corolla are much less expensive.

If I was in your situation, with a limited amount of money, and a limited amount of time I could be without my car while it's at the mechanic, I would choose a newer Camry or Corolla. I can tell you from experience that newer cars are much less expensive to own.

Drove an 08 Camry loaner yesterday while my LS was getting it's 30k going over. The Camry was a 4 cyl. and man was it a dud. Son's 2000 6cyl. Avalon with 167k on it would run rings around the Camry. The ride is so much better on the old Avalon. My advice is to drive different cars that you can afford and go from there. All cars have repairs, but some have lots of repairs. What do you feel the most safe in? That also has a lot to do with a decision. See if you can talk to the previous owner, and get their honest reason for selling....

Good luck,,

[SSamson89]

Thanks for all the input guys, it was more than I expected. Jim and Thomas seemed to confirm some of my suspicions about buying a old LS. I have quite a few good candidates to look at and I guess I knew a 18 year old LS was probably too risky for my current situation, but I wanted to check with some more experienced drivers first :D. Again thanks for all the help.

Here's the 2 listings for anyone curious.

http://tinyurl.com/aqej9e

http://tinyurl.com/d5j6po

[killerFatty]

One more reply. I'm 15 and can afford the repairs on this car mainly because I work alot and work on it myself. Once I get the regualr matinence issues out of the way I expect to see much less cost of ownership. If you get a WELL cared for LS, you wont be sorry. I have always thought how much cheaper it would be to just my have dad's 97 a camrey, but the LS makes up for it everytime I get in the car. Also my GF loves the ride. Both of the two you linked look good, but take them to a trusted mechanic and have them checked out thoroughly. Ask for all the matinance records and make sure the common issues have been adressed. Also they both will probably be needing a T-blet and water pump soon, if that hasn't already been done. I think you can do it if you put some effort into it. It depends though on how bad you want an LS. They are reliable and fabulous cars, but then again a slightly newer camry or corolla is just as reliable. Maybe just not as fabulous. If your fine with a camery go for that, but if you really want an LS, you can make it happen.

[amcdonal86]

I really don't think that a Lexus is any more expensive to own than the average used car.

I do.

It sounds like my experiences with our 1992 LS400 and 2000 Camry have been very similar to Jim's.

They are both reliable, dependable vehicles, but both parts costs and mechanics' labor charges are much less for the Camry.

But, the main reason the Camry has been cheaper to own is just because it is newer. Ours has about 80,000 miles and we have never had to do anything to it besides regular maintenance. No unexpected repairs, ever.

Quite different from the 92 LS400 which has required replacement of several suspension components, power steering pump, alternator, power window switches, antenna, etc, due primarily to its old age. The LS has 150,000 miles, but many of those repairs were done much closer to the 100,000 mile mark.

If you are worried about unexpected and expensive repairs, I think you have answered your own question.

In my local classified ads, there are several 2000-2001 Camrys with under 100,000 miles that are all priced at $6500 or less. You'd spend at least that much on a decent 90-95 LS400 with similar mileage. Don't forget that the parts for the Camry and Corolla are much less expensive.

If I was in your situation, with a limited amount of money, and a limited amount of time I could be without my car while it's at the mechanic, I would choose a newer Camry or Corolla. I can tell you from experience that newer cars are much less expensive to own.

I guess it depends. I found my '97 with 91k miles on it for less than $7500 in superb shape, and I just spent about $1000 in repairs/maintenance to get it in perfect running condition. I don't anticipate having to do any unexpected repairs for a couple years now (120k mile service).

But then again, minor issues I can repair myself.

I was coming from a '94 Miata, which nickled and dimed me like no other, but still ended up only costing me $0.30 a mile in the long run. Here is a list of the stuff I had to replace in 3 years and 40k miles:

CAS O-ring (122k)

Clutch & rear main seal (122k)

Rear brake calipers/pads (127k)

Motor mounts (130k)

front brake pads (130k)

convertible top (130k)

driver's seatbelt receiver (130k)

shifter boots (130k)

catback exhaust (rusted out--133k)

tns relay (135k)

timing belt and water pump, radiator (140k)

driveshaft (143k)

oxygen sensor (147k)

EGR tube repair (147k)

valve cover gasket (153k)

coolant hoses (157k)

This is a car (Miata) that is supposed to be "bulletproof." So you can see where I'm coming from. Again, I don't expect the LS400 to have nearly as frequent repairs. I think $0.25-0.35 is a good estimate for cost per mile for this car. (I do expect insurance and gas to be more, though.)

[jainla]

I think it also depends on where you are...if you can find an indie mechanic whom you trust and are comfortable buying parts on the internet it's possible to have a lot of the routine maintenance done for much less money than the dealer. I would think that in NoCal there are plenty of Toyota/Lexus indies. Lexus parts cost more than Toyota parts but not much more.

Also like killerfatty said some of the simple stuff you can do yourself. Case and point the dealer in BH wanted $11 A BULB (not including labor) to replace all of my tail lamps after 2 burnt out (the LS430 has 8, do the math). I was able to buy all off them online for $30 and do it myself. Ditto the air filter; almost $80 to replace at the dealer vs. buying the part for $35 and spending 5 minutes of my time. Some of us I think like tinkering with the car so we enjoy these things.

Remember though these cars were $50-60K new and when something big has to be done it can get expensive; they are more complex than a Corolla or a Camry (i.e. avoid the air suspension). So the TCO will be higher than a Camry or Corolla of that vintage (don't forget gas will be a factor) but it's not like you're buying a Ferrari. Also if you take the car to the mechanic and have them do a PPI they'll tell you what surprises may be in store.

Still you could do far worse...i.e. anything made in Germany during that time. I see people on the benzworld forums all the time asking "Do you guys think a 1995 S500 is a good first car for a 16 yr old?" The answer always comes back "yes, it's a great first car-- if you come from a family of MB mechanics or you (and or your parents) are made of money."

The LS is not that kind of car.

Thanks for all the input guys, it was more than I expected. Jim and Thomas seemed to confirm some of my suspicions about buying a old LS. I have quite a few good candidates to look at and I guess I knew a 18 year old LS was probably too risky for my current situation, but I wanted to check with some more experienced drivers first :D. Again thanks for all the help.

Here's the 2 listings for anyone curious.

http://tinyurl.com/aqej9e

http://tinyurl.com/d5j6po

[amcdonal86]

Still you could do far worse...i.e. anything made in Germany during that time. I see people on the benzworld forums all the time asking "Do you guys think a 1995 S500 is a good first car for a 16 yr old?" The answer always comes back "yes, it's a great first car-- if you come from a family of MB mechanics or you (and or your parents) are made of money."

The LS is not that kind of car.

Precisely. Because of this, I don't think it is unreasonable for a college student to have this kind of car. If you're really anal like I am, you'll probably spend a lot on repairs. But all of the repairs I have made so far could have been omitted by someone who is less scrupulous, and the car would've still driven fine.

When I was car shopping, I was choosing between my LS and a '99-ish BMW 540i with a 6 speed. I would have enjoyed driving the BMW much more perhaps, but the maintenance costs would have destroyed me!

[Budhah]

Both cars in question are California cars... Makes a little more sense as they don't have the cold weather extremes as many other places. Not to sure about the Blue with Blue leather. LOL...

[jainla]

When I was car shopping, I was choosing between my LS and a '99-ish BMW 540i with a 6 speed. I would have enjoyed driving the BMW much more perhaps, but the maintenance costs would have destroyed me!

No doubt. Also in my experience BMWs just don't last. Look at how many 20 yr old BMWs you see compared to Lexus or even Mercedes; it's just no contest.

Both cars in question are California cars... Makes a little more sense as they don't have the cold weather extremes as many other places. Not to sure about the Blue with Blue leather. LOL...

These cars are a little low mileage for the year; so cosmetically they might be in pretty good shape however you'll definitely need to do stuff like the timing belt; water pump, complete fluids flush. That's probably $1500 right there. New tires? Another $600. So know what you're getting into before you buy.

I mean obviously caveat emptor these are used cars so you take your chances; but you've stacked the deck significantly in your favor if you choose an LS. You've got no camshaft position sensors, MAF sensors, TB Actuators, Engine Wiring harnesses, duovalves, pneumatic pumps etc (the list goes on and on) to worry about.

[90LS400Lexus]

NO, NO, NO... I would not do it again and its not even my first car. ;) Mine is like my 50th car. I will stick with something like a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord the next time. IF I had a better paying job, it would not be so bad, but my current LS400 is costing me a fortune and will end up putting me in the poor house. My last one was even older and had more miles and did not cost me what my current one is and has caused me more problems and needs more work than my Mercedes and its even 3 years older. Also, the Mercedes is much less complex and less things to break. Spark plugs can be changed in 5 minutes (its an inline 6), oil in about 5 minutes, alternator can be changed in 5 minutes, power steering pump in about 10 minutes, valve cover gasket about 15 minutes, etc. I have never had to replace these yet, but its clear its super simple to remove any of these items. Also, on the Mercedes, no HVAC LDC to go out, no power steering leak issues, no fan brackets to go bad, etc.

My LS400 is going in the shop tomorrow to have the fan bracket bearing replaced... its going to cost me about $300, for a part that should be connected to the water pump anyway like most cars... not to mention this stupid bracket costs much more than the water pump itself. From what I am told it takes an act of congress to change the spark plugs and valve cover gaskets (I guess mine will continue leaking for another 6 months to a year), I think I stopped my PS pump leak by gumming up the system with Lucas power steering stop leak (probably a no-no, but when you are going broke maintaining ONE car, you have no choice when you are losing a quart of fluid a week). I also have worn engine mounts and tranny mount. Hopefully by the end of the year, I will have all of this taken care of.

IF you buy a OLDER LS400, PLEASE make sure.... (if you dont have a thick wallet of money)

make sure... (common trouble spots)

+ engine mounts and transmission mount have been replaced

+ power steering pump has been replaced / repaired

+ timing belt / water pump AND fan bracket bearing have been replaced

+ valve cover gaskets are not leaking

there are some other areas to look for (thankfully I dont have these problems yet), but the instrument cluster illumination and needles are known to go bad after so many miles/years, HVAC LCD readouts go black (I do have this issue), wires get frazzled near the trunk hinge and causes parts of the electrical systems to go haywire, front struts/tie rods/bushings tend to be worn out on older cars if not replaced), coolant level sensor, radios get weak/go out and avoid the air suspension models at all costs unless you really have alot of money.

I am not trying to scare you out of buying a LS, but just giving you a heads up on what I know about these cars and what I have dealt with on my car. My car was not a neglected car when I bought it. It was a 1-owner car, well maintained with about 199K miles, but when I bought it, the power steering started pouring the winter after, valve covers started leaking more, mounts started showing their age, etc, etc. YES, the car is almost 20 years old and has over 200K, but again, these cars get very costly to maintain, even after 20 years. Factory parts are still outrageously priced. Why a fan bracket bearing from a dealer costs $260, or a coolant level sensor costs $80, I will never know. I was able to get a OEM factory bracket for $155, but still, geez. Oh, and at wholesale, motor mounts are $90 each? .

Just buy one that does not need alot of work unless you have alot of money. ;)

[amcdonal86]

$90 each for motor mounts? How else did you think they got them to isolate vibration so well? :P

The simple solution is to buy a low mileage newer one. I think any LS400 that has been garaged and dealer maintained with all major services on record that has less than 100k should probably be okay. Less than 15 years old is a plus, too!

[90LS400Lexus]

The simple solution is to buy a low mileage newer one.

Yep thats the plan when I will the lottery. :)

[amcdonal86]

The simple solution is to buy a low mileage newer one.

Yep thats the plan when I will the lottery. :)

For some reason, when people buy a used car, they just buy the one with the lowest price. It's beyond me why people don't consider the ownership costs of the car, and the largest component of that for any used car I've had has been maintenance and repairs!

If you spend an extra $2000-3000 buying a car with half the mileage, you may very well get that money back in the long run. Plus you'd have a car that drives better and is more dependable! :)

[90LS400Lexus]

The simple solution is to buy a low mileage newer one.

Yep thats the plan when I will the lottery. :)

For some reason, when people buy a used car, they just buy the one with the lowest price. It's beyond me why people don't consider the ownership costs of the car, and the largest component of that for any used car I've had has been maintenance and repairs!

If you spend an extra $2000-3000 buying a car with half the mileage, you may very well get that money back in the long run. Plus you'd have a car that drives better and is more dependable! :)

Sad part is that my LS400 was far from the lowest price... after shipping, I had nearly $4000 invested in it, which is alot for a 1991 car with 200K. I found several cheaper LS400s, but they were in big cities and in much worse shape than mine.... either ragged out interior, banged up bodies, etc. Mines nice, but due for normal maintainence... costly maintainence. Cars are very $$$$ around here. :(

My aunt has a 2001 Nissan Altima with 49K actual miles, she bought it new. I would not trade my 217K 91' LS400 for it. It dont drive or ride near as nice and its much newer and less mileage.