Kids Running Congress?

[ArmyofOne]

Seriously? Even a 4th grader can figure out, you cant borrow money to pay off debt. Think using a Visa Card to pay off your AMEX. Sure, you will get skymiles, but they are almost as worthless as the economy at this point. This stimulus bill could very well spell the end of the economy as we know it. There is NO WAY the US government has that kind of money, and if they put that amount of money into circulation, there will be a downward spiral of value of our currency, and an uncontrollable skyrocket of inflation that will almost certainly spell our financial demise. If they borrow it, It will put is into a multi-TRILLION dollar hole (we are close already) that we will never climb out of. This is your plan congress? The United States of America, the worlds single largest economic and democratic superpower, filing for chapter 11? NewsFlash...we don't have any assets to liquidate, since you put us in debt to finance our military, and now these stimulus bills. As a result, the American people on average have no assets to liquidate either, so we cant bail you out even if we wanted to.

Not smart, Borrowing to pay off debt is a real good way to swiftly kick yourself square in the !Removed!. EVERY smart American knows this, so why in the hell is our government doing it? Because for too long, they have gotten away with it with no immediate consequences. And now, the stimulus has everyone raving...because everyone can get something out of it, everyone wants a piece of the pie. There are allocations for millions and in some cases, BILLIONS of dollars for programs that could be drastically reduced or disbanded altogether, such as COBRA. Unfortuately, if you lose your job, you will probably lose your insurance, that happens. Originally the program was designed to save the government money by keeping people off of Medicaid, but its hurting us pretty bad, because its a drain, there is no return.

I can see it coming, if the US economy collapses, the world economy WILL NOT be able to sustain itself, Asian and European markets would collapse in a chain reaction around the globe.

Not cool.

[BillyShaft]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

I once had a $30,000 a year job and $50,000 in debt. I guess that I could have cut my spending to the bone and got a second job to make more money, but that just seemed silly.

So the way that I worked my way out of this problem was to increase my spending by 120% and quit my original job. Doing much better now...somehow... :snoooorrrtttt:

[ArmyofOne]

.... Not smart, Borrowing to pay off debt is a real good way to swiftly kick yourself square in the !Removed!. EVERY smart American knows this....

I don't think so, Americans voted in Obama.... would did you think he was going to do???? He's been telling you for 2 years he wanted CHANGE!!.... Now I hope all those liberals are happy... they're going to get change alright!! By the end this year millions of Americans will have change ..... nothing but "change" in the pockets.

We're moving into socialism rapidly... say bye-bye to your civil rights, and watch your 2nd Amendment right get torched!! <_<

... There are allocations for millions and in some cases, BILLIONS of dollars for programs that could be drastically reduced or disbanded altogether, such as COBRA.

COBRA??? ... dude.. you're smoke'n some bad $hit!! The government doesn't pay for your COBRA!!! :P

I can see it coming, if the US economy collapses, the world economy WILL NOT be able to sustain itself, Asian and European markets would collapse in a chain reaction around the globe.

Yeah... you'd better get ready!! Stash some cash, you'll need food and water also. And when the bands of ravaging, anti-government crazed lunatic "have-nots" start taking from the "haves"... you'd better have some guns and lots ammo!! :o

OH... as far as the US having any assets???..... try FOOD!! B)

We are in so much debt, we dont have any food that belongs to us...it all probably belongs to Britian or something :P

[raymsixsix]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

I once had a $30,000 a year job and $50,000 in debt. I guess that I could have cut my spending to the bone and got a second job to make more money, but that just seemed silly.

So the way that I worked my way out of this problem was to increase my spending by 120% and quit my original job. Doing much better now...somehow... :snoooorrrtttt:

LOL... seriously, does :snoooorrrtttt: help? No wonder I'm jonsing :D

[JENunnez]

I wonder where those 800 billion are coming from? Did they mug the tooth fairy? I think a lot of people don't have a clue, they think it magically appears. We are bailing out lowlife thieves that make millions of dollars and problably pay less in taxes than a hotdog vendor.

They should just leave it as is and the ones that are strong will survive, and the scum will disappear. People will keep buying what they need and what they don't need. In the end thing will balance out again and maybe even sooner than with the money hemorrhage. :chairshot:

[nc211]

True, these are really scary times, and the numbers are numbingly big. The defecit is approaching $10T. I read an article recently comparing 10 trillion to some interesting facts. 10 trillion seconds equals 32,000 years. I you spent $1m a DAY since the birth of Jesus Christ, you would still have approx 1/4 of $10t left. It's stunning what's going on. But, on the flip side of this, is the staggering US economic engine, which is huge! At the end of the day, we're borrowing approximately 6% of our economic GDP, which is high but managable if done correctly. Basically ladies and gentlemen, we're pinned. We've had 5 years of buy buy buy buy everything with debt, and now we're facing the keep keep keep keep it. The lesson being taught is the one between getting something, and keeping something. It won't let up until folks start needing/wanting again.

But yes, we're playing with a fire a bit. However, we've got to keep the dollars flowing around the economic circle for this country to survive. It's the core foundation of our capitalistic lifestyle. You don't buy, he don't make money and he don't buy either. At the top of that pyramid, is the US Government.

Things will get better though, trust me. It's a cycle, and the next one will be worse than this one, just as this one is worse than the last one. It happens when inflation of values and population base is calculated in. It's also part of the same cycle reflected by consumer confidence levels, which are in the tank right now...because folks are happy with, and trying to keep their 720P Plasmas, not buy 1080P. But, thankfully oil is cheap again, and the opec boys are pinned down too.

[lenore]

What they should have done was let these businesses fail, re-organize, etc. We had too much expansion on a false dollar. The better move would be to give extended unemployment benifits for 2 years and let the capitalistic economy find its own leveling field. This would only cost us around $50billion, far cheaper than the 800 billion. We built too many homes, apartments, and shopping centers on our credit driven economy. On a side note has anyone seen any news on the 20 states considering sovereignty from the federal government to stop the spending requirements of the feds?

[jcrome04]

All I can say is things are "changing".

Just like the Libs want. But of course, they like getting free money and free healthcare and free food and free housing and free life.

What happened to working to better your life? I think welfare should be tossed. FORCING people to go out and get jobs! haha

[nc211]

All I can say is things are "changing".

Just like the Libs want. But of course, they like getting free money and free healthcare and free food and free housing and free life.

What happened to working to better your life? I think welfare should be tossed. FORCING people to go out and get jobs! haha

J', you know I love ya' man, you're my boy. but, you gotta' quit this sh*t. people are in serious trouble right now, from the country club to the soup kitchens. nobody's being forced to get a job to prosper, but rather being forced to find a job to survive. I'm sorry my friend if I'm chewing on your tale a bit. You know it's nothing personal.

[nc211]

What they should have done was let these businesses fail, re-organize, etc. We had too much expansion on a false dollar. The better move would be to give extended unemployment benifits for 2 years and let the capitalistic economy find its own leveling field. This would only cost us around $50billion, far cheaper than the 800 billion. We built too many homes, apartments, and shopping centers on our credit driven economy. On a side note has anyone seen any news on the 20 states considering sovereignty from the federal government to stop the spending requirements of the feds?

I somewhat agree with you lenore, especially in light of the recent "bonus" activity going on. One thing that I've come to consider in all of this though, is the workforce that is now available to do these "stimulus" based projects, like roads and bridges. 18 months ago, a state couldn't afford to hire a skilled crew to build a bridge "hence the massive influx of illegal immigrants". Now, as a country, we have those people. So, I'm somewhat excited by this opportunity to finally address the decaying infrastructure of our country in a proper way, a lasting way of 50 years+, instead of repaving a 10 mile stretch of road, only to restart at the beginning when you're at the end, due to poor quality forced upon the project by unexperienced yet affordable labor and materials. So, I'm at a double edge sword moment on this....

[1990LS400]

All I can say is things are "changing".

Just like the Libs want. But of course, they like getting free money and free healthcare and free food and free housing and free life.

What happened to working to better your life? I think welfare should be tossed. FORCING people to go out and get jobs! haha

J', you know I love ya' man, you're my boy. but, you gotta' quit this sh*t. people are in serious trouble right now, from the country club to the soup kitchens. nobody's being forced to get a job to prosper, but rather being forced to find a job to survive. I'm sorry my friend if I'm chewing on your tale a bit. You know it's nothing personal.

Great words, NC.

Finding a job in many areas of the U.S. right now is just plan impossible. Companies in the Kansas City area are laying off thousands of people each week and flooding the labor market. The largest local employer, Sprint, just announced they are laying off another 8,000 people by April. I personally know hundreds of people here who have lost their jobs and can't find another one.

I'm about as economically conservative as they come -- zero debt, own a nice house with no mortgage, nice paid-off cars, conservative investor -- and I think a federal government stimulus is critical to getting the economy moving again. I also have a strong background in economics and history and know what happened in the 1930s when a certain political party resisted and hindered the implementation of a stimulus plan. Herbert Hoover was a member of that particular political party.

I find it hilarious that the most economically conservative people I know usually vote Democratic. The supposedly conservative Republican people in my family and neighborhood mostly focus on social issues and are completely out of control in their personal finances and severely in debt.

Yes, the situation is bad. I'm disgusted that us economically responsible people are going to be the ones who have to bail the posers out of this mess. But, really, that is the way it has always been. Look back in history over the past several hundred years and you will see the same cycle repeating over and over.

[eatingupblacktop]

Seriously? Even a 4th grader can figure out, you cant borrow money to pay off debt. Think using a Visa Card to pay off your AMEX. Sure, you will get skymiles, but they are almost as worthless as the economy at this point.

Not smart, Borrowing to pay off debt is a real good way to swiftly kick yourself square in the !Removed!. EVERY smart American knows this, so why in the hell is our government doing it?

Army, love the setiment and agree with you 100% if that's what they were doing. In reality the stimulus pkg is not designed to pay off the debt but rather as an infusion of capital and tax breaks (theoretically putting $$ in the hands of the public) into the economy to restore confidence and credit to businesses and consumers which they hope will get the economy rolling again. If spending starts up again, and businesses can finance their operations with credit newly available (indirectly) from this pkg, then the layoffs will subside. As the layoffs decrease, the consumers' confidence increases and spending should increase proprtionally fom where it is now, or at least that's the intent.

This stimulus bill could very well spell the end of the economy as we know it. There is NO WAY the US government has that kind of money...

You're right. They're borrowing a lot of it internationally.

As a result, the American people on average have no assets to liquidate either, so we cant bail you out even if we wanted to.

You right here again. However, the pkg is not a bailout in the strict sense of the word. It is a colleciton of loans, repayable (with interest?) to the gov't. They may even make some $ when it's all done. In addition there are strings attached. You no doubt heard of Obama restricting exec's to $500k for any failing business on the receiving end of this pkg. Without these conditions, many more corps would likely be continuing downhill. When you tie in the salaries to the performance of the company, you create a self interest in the well being of the business. I wouldn't remove all the perks however. One I can think of that would motivate the execs to perform would be that in lieu of salary increases they would receive bonuses of stock options that would be non negotiable/tradeable for 10 years. That way they would have a vested interest in making the companies shares worth as much as possible down the road. A win - win!

That's my take anyway. One thing is for certain, turning this thing around will be like changing the course of a supertanker compared with a speedboat. You can turn the rudder quickly, but the tanker will take a lot longer to respond.

[JENunnez]

Alot of similarities to the Roosevelt"s New Deal, hopefuly it will workout the same way.

[GDixon]

Alot of similarities to the Roosevelt"s New Deal, hopefuly it will workout the same way.

Roosevelt's New Deal didn't work. In fact, government intervention handicapped a recovery according to many economists and we are still paying for it today. Just look at the unemployment figures from the New Deal era. The only thing that created a recovery was WWII. Hopefully you aren't looking for WWIII.

[lenore]

Alot of similarities to the Roosevelt"s New Deal, hopefuly it will workout the same way.

The new deal didnt bring us out of the depression, it failed and the only thing that brought us out was the huge manufacturing increase when World War II started. Unfortunately we sent most of our manufacturing overseas. We are in a real bad way. This stimulus may just put a blip back in the economy, but I feel after a year, we will go into a deeper depression. Government cannot sustain a recovery without business getting incentives to grow. Now every state is doing just the oposite by increasing taxes, that is the death to the common tax payer and business alike. In California when they do that business leaves. I swear the idiots at the top dont have a clue.

Americans need to contact their representatives on both sides of the isle and have this stimulus ammended to correct their mistakes.

[BillyShaft]

Alot of similarities to the Roosevelt"s New Deal, hopefuly it will workout the same way.

The new deal caused us to stay in a depression for 10 years while the rest of the world recovered in 4.

[JENunnez]

I was golng to say about WW III but more doom and gloom...... :(

Edit : I did mean to say " will not work out the same". To early in the morning with 10 people, here at work, talking to me at the same time.

Sorry.

[BillyShaft]

Gotcha. No kidding.

We certainly don't want WW3 to help us recover.

[eatingupblacktop]

This downturn has it's shelf life as do all crisis, and then it's onward and upward. The cycle continues. Simply but truly, whatever it takes, will be taken. In the end there's not much we can do about it except ride it out as best we can with the devices we have at hand. None of the populations in any of the countries involved with either WW's had a say in it. Unfortunately we ride the waves of history with no means of navigaton. We float the tides with no rudder to where ever they lead us. As we move into the future, it seems the Vox Populi has been incrementaly muted with each succeeding generation. How and why are the questions we should all be asking going forward. On the other hand, as long as there's a supply of JD and Bud with some steaks on the grill, we just might make it after all.

"Don't know when

don't know where

but I know we'll meet again

some lucky day"

....... Dr Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. ;)

[ArmyofOne]

Seriously? Even a 4th grader can figure out, you cant borrow money to pay off debt. Think using a Visa Card to pay off your AMEX. Sure, you will get skymiles, but they are almost as worthless as the economy at this point.

Not smart, Borrowing to pay off debt is a real good way to swiftly kick yourself square in the !Removed!. EVERY smart American knows this, so why in the hell is our government doing it?

Army, love the setiment and agree with you 100% if that's what they were doing. In reality the stimulus pkg is not designed to pay off the debt but rather as an infusion of capital and tax breaks (theoretically putting $$ in the hands of the public) into the economy to restore confidence and credit to businesses and consumers which they hope will get the economy rolling again. If spending starts up again, and businesses can finance their operations with credit newly available (indirectly) from this pkg, then the layoffs will subside. As the layoffs decrease, the consumers' confidence increases and spending should increase proprtionally fom where it is now, or at least that's the intent.

This stimulus bill could very well spell the end of the economy as we know it. There is NO WAY the US government has that kind of money...

You're right. They're borrowing a lot of it internationally.

As a result, the American people on average have no assets to liquidate either, so we cant bail you out even if we wanted to.

You right here again. However, the pkg is not a bailout in the strict sense of the word. It is a colleciton of loans, repayable (with interest?) to the gov't. They may even make some $ when it's all done. In addition there are strings attached. You no doubt heard of Obama restricting exec's to $500k for any failing business on the receiving end of this pkg. Without these conditions, many more corps would likely be continuing downhill. When you tie in the salaries to the performance of the company, you create a self interest in the well being of the business. I wouldn't remove all the perks however. One I can think of that would motivate the execs to perform would be that in lieu of salary increases they would receive bonuses of stock options that would be non negotiable/tradeable for 10 years. That way they would have a vested interest in making the companies shares worth as much as possible down the road. A win - win!

That's my take anyway. One thing is for certain, turning this thing around will be like changing the course of a supertanker compared with a speedboat. You can turn the rudder quickly, but the tanker will take a lot longer to respond.

NC, You just made my point...They are BORROWING MORE MONEY, largely to give to corporations who CANT keep their asses in the black because of DEBT...so what do you think the accountants are going to do when their bosses comany gets that 500 million dollar share fo the pckg? they are gonna pay off their debt thats causing their headache. So basically the government is saying "Here *insert favorite failing business here*, we will use our good credit to get money for you to pay off your debt.

Where is the sense? Im sorry NC, I love you man, and I agree wholeheartedly that today's world is bass-ackwards. But, I work VERY hard for everything i have, a nearly new car thats paid for (and one thats 13 y/o but paid for), no mortgage and almost zero debt. And I like many others, shudder at the thought of bailing out lazy A$$holes...

I guess with me being in the military I kind of have a false sense of security in regards to all of this. I have job security no matter what. Doesnt matter what happens, on the 1st and the 15th of every month until sept 28th 2012 or later, I will have a paycheck, with 25% withdrawn for my Thrift Savings Plan (every dollar I put in the army matches).