The Real Facts - Don't Be Fooled !

[dcfish]

After all the hoopala, The politicians are broke, in more than one way. They spend like drunken sailors and have no idea what their income is, as if it matters. Government has done nothing to improve the working man, they have created a welfare system that creates generations of non workers, screwed the Medical care system up by causing it to overinflate all normal expenses because they can. Now they want a free get out of jail card for the folks that caused it all. Republicans, Democrats, they are both sick and heading toward Socialism. They feel they can do better than you or me in taking care of our children, grandchildren, etc. All it has done is taken responsibility away from everyone to accept any blame or responsibility for their miserable plights. The CEO's, board of directors and all of the Ivy league insiders have ruined this country with their EAST coast mentality. Jobs have gone overseas and we have sold out our technology to third world countries that have no interest in democracy or human rights. China puts a man in space and gears for a space station by 2020 and I can guarantee you if will not be only for exploration. The Media hardly covers it, and ignores the growing threat. This financial crisis is greed and stupid deregulation, which has failed us all miserably. The Enrons, Xerox, and countless other frauds that happened in the last ten years just have not been punished enough. Now We Bail out the good old boys, hey where is my cut when my ATM says I have no more funds. Could you spare me a dime?????

Excellent post lenore I couldn't have said it any better.

[SW03ES]

Lenore's post is the typical response to the bailout, but what it doesn't address is the fact that bailing out these companies is precisely what is going to keep his ATM card working. If we don't do it, I'm afraid we're headed down a road that we don't even have the slightest idea what exists at the end.

I'm frustrated by it too, but the bill keeps the golden parachutes from happening, it caps CEO pay from companies that we take interest in. It is a good bill, and its neccisary. This is not a CEO bailout, not by a long shot. The CEOs are going to loose everything in this.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and if we're smart as a nation we'll come away from this stronger for it and having learned some very important lessons, but something has got to be done because this economy is headed for the gutter. 10 days...thats about all we've got and if there had been no talk of a bailout we'd be there already.

The bill saves these companies, and this economy needs these companies to function. It MUST be done, and it will be done. Unfortunately all the special interests are going to get another crack at the bill and its going to be a lot messier than it would have been.

Discussing politics on this forum is going to lead to nothing but bad feelings. People tend to overreact and overstate when politics are involved.

But this is a discussion forum and this is a "General Discussion" so snipe away. It is disappointing.

As for discussing politics in here, no issue with it at all as long as the discussion remains civil and friendly which it has. If you don't want to read this discussions, pass over the threads. I've been doing this a while...I know when something needs to be shut down and this is fine. Nobody's sniping, they're discussing their viewpoints which is the whole point of our forum.

Rest assured though, I care deeply about this community and should it go south, it will end quickly and decisively.

[lenore]

I am happy about one thing, Government is not ramming this through the mill. The people ( I mean the real people of the nation) have been giving some terrific response to this bailout, and I think Congress is scared that so many are finally taking some attention to what is going on. Too bad they dont do that all of the time and give us a 80 to 90 percent votor turnout. God Bless this nation and I hope the people get their way, even if it is a little. At least we didnt get the first bill, giving all of our rights away to some CZAR that had no limits. Thank your soldiers, sailors, and teachers for trying to give us our rights...Shame that integrity doesnt exist in corporate America... They seem to have forgotten what this country was founded on. Everyone have a great day.

[eatingupblacktop]

Let me just put up that I'm more spouting my frustration at this whole thing. I can't beleive that no one saw this coming and even more unbeleivable is the fact that nothing was done before we came to this. It seems they have all the security cameras and alarms in the wrong room of these banks!!

I know this package has to be put thru. It just erks me that all the politicians are acting as our saviors and doing us all a favor by really trying to oversee "good stewardship" of taxpayer money. Seems to me they should ahve been paying attention and doing that all along.

I'm just frustrated guys, and gals. I own a business. I have employees that rely on this business for thier livelyhood. This whiole thing just really stresses me out. I'm nervous about next week, and next month.....and so on....

Smooth, One of the main reasons I posted this is because of frustration, I have no faith in our government, Republicans and Democrats alike, In fact Politics these days belong on the pile behind the barn. What ever happened to 'WE THE PEOPLE" ??? Government runs us, Should be the other way around. OK, Back to the discussion, Rants and Vents

"Things always get worse before they get better"

I've posted this in another thread, but I think it's probably more appropriate here. So pardon me for repeating myself.

"Call me a cynic, but I believe the economic machinations are being controlled by the major market players. Profit taking for the most part has already happened. Now they're waiting for the pot to be sweetened before stocks are scouped up at fire sale prices. Basically, the prices have not reached bottom yet, and the payoff from congress is not yet on the table, so the big money will wait as long as it takes for conditions to meet their parameters. They're not in any distress. Most of them are long since liquid.

In this now global game, the little guy (you and I) has no input/influence over the direction of the economy. Our responses (spending less, tightening our belts, holding off on vacations, driving the car less, etc) are actuarial forecasts that are factored in by the programs that big money has been running since even before the Fed was created. This so called crisis has been manufactured very well indeed and the logistics are as difficult to pinpoint as the definitive layer of an onion. Don't look to the politicians for help, they are playing their roles as directed.

One aspect that has changed from the historical scenarios is that there is no longer the covert excertion of control, rather it is now obvious. They have become as bold as daytime urban gang gun play. They have nothing to fear because there is nothing we can do. Point your finger where, at whom? The politicians and media are there to obfuscate any attempts to focus the search light. If that fails, they are expendible and take the fall. There's plenty of them around and they all get nice departure packages to make it worth their while. Even the ceo's who are spending time behind bars have nice bundles waiting for them when they get out. What are you going to do? March down to the White House or the House and demand truth and honesty? My question is, if the country's economy, for that matter the global economy is in crisis, why has the House adjourned for the next few days, be it holiday or not??? Anyone with a reasonable answer?"

[smooth1]

Just curious, what do you guys make of this?

2004 senate committee meeting

[SW03ES]

I'd like to see it unedited...

[CUMan]

There is plenty of blame to go to both parties regarding the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blowups. But I think there is more responsibility on the Democrat side.

Congressman Baker from Louisiana was a long time opponent of the direction these agencies were taking, and he had been very vocal with his warnings about what could happen if they continued in the direction they were heading. Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded.

These agencies were a strange hybrid which may have made them doomed for failure. They were originally federal agencies but were converted to stockholder owned corporations some years ago. Their unique position in the financial marketplace gave them the ability to borrow money at advantageous rates because there was a general attitude in the marketplace that the U.S. government would never allow them to fail. This proved to be a correct assumption.

It is difficult for any entity to serve two masters. The agencies were theoretically owned by their stockholders, but they were subject to oversight from the politicians in Congress. There was pressure from numerous legislators for them to expand their services so more home financing funds would be available. Most of this pressure came from the Democrats in Congress, with Barney Frank being one of the most vocal ones.

One of the biggest fears that detractors of the agencies have had in recent years has been their purchase and holding of mortgages as investments. This is separate from their original function of buying mortgages from the originators, pooling them, and selling the mortgage pools into the marketplace. There was a lot of potential income in owning mortgages, especially when the agencies were able to fund these investments with dollars borrowed at advantageous interest rates because of their quasi-government standing. But there was also a whole lot of risk in this. Owning fixed rate mortgages when interest rates are rising led to the downfall of the S & L industry in the 1980's, and FNMA and FHLMC were taking this risk by buying and holding mortgages.

The argument that the agencies usually made in defending their mortgage investments was that they were "hedging" these investments with some of the creative financial products that the "Einsteins of Wall Street" have developed over the past two decades. Well, we saw how well some of these creations held up when the mortgage market started to implode.

Another factor in this whole mess involves the advent of "mark to market" accounting. This is a relatively new creation which had its origins with the Enron fiasco several years ago. For years, financial institutions held mortgages (and other investments) on their books at their cost. They now have to carry these assets, with some exceptions, on their books at "market value." This works fine as long as two things exist: (1) the organization has enough capital to absorb any writedowns that declining market values may cause; and (2) there is a functioning marketplace that allows one to determine a true value for an investment. Part 2 has been the problem recently, and I suspect this is what cost FNMA and FHLMC dearly. The mortgage marketplace is at a standstill. There is so much fear about the extent of losses that the normal buying and selling is not happening. How does one determine a "market value" when the market is not functioning? If you try to sell something, and no one will make an offer, does that mean the item is worthless? This is the flaw in "mark to market," and changes are needed in this.

The bailout of Fannie and Freddie was apparently precipitated by the actions of the Chinese and other foreign government banks who were no longer purchasing the securities of these agencies. This should bring home to us the danger of our relying on other countries to fund our borrowing. Our national savings rate is zero. We do not create savings that the treasury and the agencies can borrow, thereby enabling them to meet their financing needs within our own borders. This forces us to go overseas to borrow. This puts us at the mercy of folks who may not always make these loans available to us. I don't like to think about what may happen when the baby boomers start applying for Social Security, and the U.S. Treasury goes hat in hand to China asking for a loan to pay these benefits.

One absolutely abhorrent result of the FNMA and FHLMC bailout involves the preferred stock of the agencies. There had been numerous issues of this stock over the years, and many of our country's banks were purchasers and holders of this stock. The government bailout did not include anything for these investors. Mark to market will likely force them to write this investment down to zero value. Hopefully, these banks have enough capital to absorb this without threatening their continued existence. These are strange days. We bail out the agencies so the Chinese do not suffer any losses, but at the same time we force losses on our nation's banks.

[SW03ES]

A very good synopsis of the situation...

[GDixon]

Finally!! A story that sums up this political discussion, and any political discussion for that matter, to perfection.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/repor...ion_people_youd

[jcrome04]

The Onion........

I don't think that sums up anything! haha

[GDixon]

The Onion........

I don't think that sums up anything! haha

Ah, but the measure of satire is how closely it comes to the truth.

[duck.tape_420]

I need to know how to reset the security system without the key. I own the car but have lost the key and have been starting it without one. the wires came apart and now I cant get my car to turn over. my brother did something with the door locks and a series of other things to do if you don't have a key and need to bypass the security system. HELP ME. I WANT TO DRIVE MY CAR

I wish everyone could just grow up and get over their raging obsession with bashing Bush.

Sorry the guy is an idiot and I am infuriated by what he has done with the presidency I voted him into. It has nothing to do with me having to "grow-up". I am a successful businessman and a tax paying American citizen who knows a thing or two about how our economy and markets work, I'm a grown-up already. This guy is a disaster, and there are very few individuals left who disagree.

Clinton NEVER had approval ratings as low as Bush...not even during his impeachment.

The congress sucks too, I agree and I am really dissapointed in what they've done with my vote as well, but that doesn't change the fact that Bush is an idiot.

I can't believe they didn't pass the bailout...

[SW03ES]

Yeah....how did he find this?!?!

[1990LS400]

At least we finally have some "reality" in this thread! :D