To Resurface Rear Rotors Or Not?

[Dark Horse]

Hello All,

Two months ago when my wife's car was having the timing belt replaced, I was advised to have the rear pads replaced (10% left) and resurface the rotors. To cut the rotors alone is $80.00. I am not experiencing any steering wheel shake or pulsation in the brake pedal when I brake. I know when you take metal off the rotor there is less thermal mass, which will cause the rotors to distort in less time. The shop indicated there was a "lip" on the outer edge of the rotor and if they were not resurfaced the new pads would not wear correctly. I do not want to resurface the rotors unless it is really in my best interest.

Would anyone who has been in this situation share their thoughts?

[TexasLexus94]

You didn't list the year of your LS400, so I'm not sure if my thoughts apply to your car. I have a 1994 Ls, and I've changed the front and rear pads and rotors several times. IMHO, if you change the thin pads in the rear without grinding the rotors, I think you'll be OK. My rear pads do not experience the forces that the front pads do. A nearly 4,000 LB car depends on the fronts to stop. Unless you can definitely feel brake fade and such on the rear, I would not worry about it. I always put new rotors, not ground down ones on my car. Since I do the work myself, the new pads and rotors cost around $100 each set. Not OEM, but just fine for me.

Have them put on the rear pads, and tell them to shut up. Best of luck.

[1990LS400]

I'm curious about how many miles are on your rear pads. If I remember correctly, I got over 125,000 miles of wear from the rear pads on my first LS (a 1990) and the rear pads on my 2000 LS400 look like they are going to go even longer that that. The 1990 LS was still on its original brake rotors when I sold it at 183,000 miles and the rotors were still within the acceptable thickness range.

I suggest that you pull the rear wheels and visually check the pad thickness for yourself. The indie shop I take my LS to told me that I would need rear pads "soon" at the 90,000 mile service -- but when I did a visual check myself, all four rear pads looked great and looked like would go at least another 30,000 miles and perhaps a lot longer than that. I suspect that repair shops have a hard time coping with the concept of the rear pads on an LS lasting 120,000 to 150,000 miles.

I check the pad thickness at all four wheels each time I rotate tires -- every 5,000 miles. It takes only a minute or two at each wheel and brake pad replacement never sneaks up on me.

The indie shop I take our Lexus and Toyota cars to always use OEM brake pads and resurface the rotors. In March 2006 at 71,000 miles, I paid right at $205 (not including tax) for a front brake job on the 00 LS which included rotor resurfacing, OEM pads and labor. I waited until the brake pad warning displayed in the trip computer before having the front pads replaced; the front pad wear sensor that sensed the worn pad could not be salvaged/reused and was replaced a few days later for an additional $55 parts and labor.

If the Lexus brake components didn't last so long, I would probably do the work myself. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s I replaced the brake pads on our Mercedes cars myself -- the pads rarely lasted more than 25,000 miles and the rotors wore out by 100,000 miles.

[ED.]

You can feel for the lips yourself. Just put your finger on the rotor then drag it up to the top of the rotor and if there is a lip then you should probably get new rotors but I doubt there is one.

I bring up getting new ones again because those rears ones like to rust on so trying to get them off to turn them may end up killing them depending on how much force it takes to remove them from the hub.

Feel for the lip though and if it is all smooth then just have them do the pads. I wanted to get the fronts ones on the car turned but AutoZone and Advance Auto no longer do it but I have been fortunate with the squeaks thus far. Mostly it is a weird grinding noise I get from the drivers side here and there. I'm going back to my 7 on Friday so I guess it's out of my hands for now, suckazzzzzz! Just joking. It'll be my butt if something happens.

[SRK]

If there are no symptoms indicating run-out on the rear rotors, just install the pads. The symptom would be a shaking in the floorboards, seat etc. not a vibration in the steering wheel. You might feel a bit in the pedal on a hard application from highway speed. The bottom line is if they aren't warped, leave them alone. And don't let some brake "tech" tell you to have them machined or replaced in order to break in the new pads properly. That's the oldest line of crap in the book. The new pads on old rotors might take 10 miles to bed-in, instead of 5 miles on new rotors. Big deal.

[python]

always resurface rotors when installing new pads!!!! otherwise your new pads will have grooves in them that are cut by the rotors which will have grooves from wear by normal braking....80 dollars is way too much for resurfacing these, i can see 40 dollars tops

[Dark Horse]

Thanks to all for the input.

I forgot to mention it is a 2000 model with 92,000 miles.

There is no noticeable scoring (grooves) anywhere. The issue is they want to resurface the rotors to remove the lip on the outer circumference of the rotors. Today or tomorrow I will physically check to confirm there is such a lip. Assuming there is, will the lip be an impediment to even pad wear, or noise should I just have them replace the pads?

By the way, can anyone tell me what is a reasonable price to pay for replacing rear pads on this LS400?

[VMF]

the only reason for you to resurface your rotors is if they are in a pretty bad shape and have groves on them or you overheated them and have deposits from the break pads that would cause vibrations when you push the break pedal.

i personally do not resurface the rotors during every break pad change, there is no point and it shortens the rotors life significantly. the usual price to machine the rotor is 10$ per rotor.

[JENunnez]

the only reason for you to resurface your rotors is if they are in a pretty bad shape and have groves on them or you overheated them and have deposits from the break pads that would cause vibrations when you push the break pedal.

i personally do not resurface the rotors during every break pad change, there is no point and it shortens the rotors life significantly. the usual price to machine the rotor is 10$ per rotor.

Here Here.

[1990LS400]

the only reason for you to resurface your rotors is if they are in a pretty bad shape and have groves on them or you overheated them and have deposits from the break pads that would cause vibrations when you push the break pedal.

i personally do not resurface the rotors during every break pad change, there is no point and it shortens the rotors life significantly. the usual price to machine the rotor is 10$ per rotor.

Here Here.

Last Friday night at Johnnys bar in Overland Park, Kansas, I ran into "Toby", the current owner of the 1990 LS400 I owned for 13 1/2 years from new until 183,000+ miles, and I verified that it still has all the original brake rotors -- the current mileage is 265,000 miles! The rotors have been resurfaced several times which has apparently not "shortened the rotor's life significantly".

[python]

anyone who tells u not to resurface rotors when installing new pads does not know what they are talking about....deposits from old pads wear directly into rotors, in fact if the rotors are not resurfaced correctly they can also leave deposits from the rotor into the new pads, rotors are supposed to be washed with soapy water after they are resurfaced....so vmf guru member i suggest not posting and telling people to do things to their car that isnt correct, after all u cant be ASE certified if u r giving that type of advice

also overheating rotors will leave heat checks in them and they can not be taken out by resurfacing.....if u do a job do it right the first time, this insures the parts u put on will last longer, less money in the long run

[Ratatat]

resurface, resurface, resurface. ok did that come through. You guarantee that your new pads and rotors mate 100% contact. This is really a no brainer, its called SAFETY!!!!!!

[SRK]

resurface, resurface, resurface. ok did that come through. You guarantee that your new pads and rotors mate 100% contact. This is really a no brainer, its called SAFETY!!!!!!

I've done more brake jobs than you've had hot lunches. Many times, because they didn't NEED it, I didn't re-surface rotors. And I delivered the cars back to the customers who put women and children in them. And I sleep well.

Safety eh? So you work for Midas maybe?

[python]

remind me to never take my car or anyones car i know to the place where you work SRK.....shoddy workmanship will only get u comebacks and lose customers.....so u can take ur lunch and go take an ase course on brakes, then come back and let us know what u find when u complete the course.....let me know of one ase cert course that says dont resurface the rotors when replacing pads, ill bet u dont even check them to see if they are within specs!!! what a joke....people, if u care at all about your car and safety i suggest u take care of it the way it is supposed to be...maybe thats the way they do it in ur country SRK but not here

[Kennyr]

I too have put brake pads on thousands of times in 30 years and not turned rotors unless they were below the thickness spec or warped. My dealership shop had 10 mechanics also doing the same. Thats a lot of proof you dont need to turn and ruin the customers rotors by taking mass off them. You take an expensive oem rotor and turn it down and you ruin it. Volvo said never turn rotors. Aftermarket rotors are so cheap now but you dont need to even pay for them if there is no warpage. The lip is no problem if the area the pads hit is still in spec.

[IS400]

resurface, resurface, resurface. ok did that come through. You guarantee that your new pads and rotors mate 100% contact. This is really a no brainer, its called SAFETY!!!!!!

I've done more brake jobs than you've had hot lunches. Many times, because they didn't NEED it, I didn't re-surface rotors. And I delivered the cars back to the customers who put women and children in them. And I sleep well.

Safety eh? So you work for Midas maybe?

Ha! That is funny! Midas always wants to change my 'muffler bearings' or some other such crap! I tell them no and they say it is a 'safety' issue. Yup...whatever, service manager guy.

[Ratatat]

This is right from Bendix's website, click on Tech Corner, and it is the item listed

www.bendixbrakes.com

The info here is copy and pasted right from the pdf which is;

http://www.bendixbrakes.com/download/pdf/A...m-Brake-Job.pdf

From the desk of Jay Buckley, Bendix Brakes Answerman

A Good “Minimum” Brake Job

In order to provide your customer with a good “minimum” brake job, refer to these simple guidelines:

1. Question your customer about problems with the vehicle and typical usage (driving conditions).

2. Road test the car (unless unable to be driven) and note problems.

3. Index the wheels to the hubs and remove wheels.

4. Perform complete brake inspection noting parts necessary; check rotors and drums for thickness and/or replacement.

Disc Brake Service

1. Refinish rotor on or off the car:

• Fast cut as necessary

• Slow cut.

• Polish to 50 micro inch or better using a NON-DIRECTIONAL finish

2. Clean the rotor with brake cleaner, and then wash with soap and hot water, making sure to dry with paper towels only.

3. Inspect/Replace and lubricate caliper mounting hardware with OE recommended lubricants.

4. Inspect, clean, polish and lubricate all caliper and pad sliding surfaces on the car and caliper. Use high temperature synthetic brake grease only. (Or OE recommended lubricant).

5. Loosen seized bleeder screws and clean them of dirt and debris.

6. Always open bleeder screw and place a hose on it to direct used fluid into a container while caliper piston is retracted. Never retract caliper piston with bleeder screw closed, this forces dirty fluid back into the ABS hydraulic unit and master cylinder.

7. Repack wheel bearings with the correct grease and install new seal. On front wheel drive vehicles; inspect hub for run out (run out should be .002 or less). Clean hub rotor mounting surface, paying careful attention to the area around wheel studs.

8. Inspect and clean/replace as needed-all shims, caliper hardware, clips, springs etc.

9. Install pads in the caliper. To prevent squeal, eliminate pad looseness by cinching pad to caliper (if applicable) and install anti-squeal shims or disc brake noise insulator liquid if shims are not called for. Always follow the OE procedure for installing pads. Install caliper assembly on car and use a torque wrench to tighten anchor bolts. Install the wheel and torque the wheel lug nuts in a star pattern to OE specs.

From the desk of Jay Buckley, Bendix Brakes Answerman

Drum Brake Service

1. Remove drum and clean brake assembly using an OSHA approved method. Do not raise or inhale dust from brakes.

2. After removing old shoes and hardware, clean backing plate in all areas where shoe web contacts the backing plate.

3. Loosen seized bleeder screws and clean area on debris.

4. Rebuild or replace wheel cylinders. If not rebuilding or replacing, you must open the bleeder screw when installing new shoes and springs to prevent dirty brake fluid from contaminating the RABS valve on vehicles with rear wheel only ABS (RWAL) systems.

5. Replace all hardware and return springs.

6. Install new shoes. Lubricate the backing plate shoe contact points, parking brake arm pivot point, self-adjuster screw, upper or lower anchor pin.

7. Refinish brake drum. Fast cut as needed, slow cut. Clean drum with brake clean and then wash with soap and hot water, drying only with paper towels.

8. Pre-adjust shoes and re-install drums. Perform final adjustment.

9. Install wheels and torque lug nuts in a star pattern to OE specs.

General Brake Service

1. Fill master cylinder with fresh clean brake fluid as specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

2. Bleed hydraulic system using the manufacturers recommended bleeding sequence. Flush system until clean fluid comes out all bleeder screws. This technique works well to maintain hydraulic system and ABS valves.

3. Re-check system for leaks.

4. Re-adjust rear brakes and check-adjust parking brake.

5. Re-check master cylinder level, being careful to not “top off” master cylinder. Fill to OE mark.

6. Gently road test the car. If all is “okay,” break-in the pads and shoes using the correct burnish procedure. This procedure is usually found in the owner’s manual of the vehicle. It is your responsibility to explain this procedure to your customer to ensure long life of the brake job as well as your customer’s satisfaction.

PS. You laugh about muffler bearings, hell I would have laughed at 'Engine Fan Fluid', till I bought a Lexus.

[Ratatat]

for disc brake service, item #1 is..............

[SRK]

Some final steps to your procedure

10. Open customer wallet. Remove all paper money. Inspect carefully to ensure no money is left within.

11. Offer customer dry towel and advise same to avoid getting teardrops on the invoice as it will make the ink run and blur.

12. Retain vaseline container for next customer.

[JENunnez]

Some final steps to your procedure

10. Open customer wallet. Remove all paper money. Inspect carefully to ensure no money is left within.

11. Offer customer dry towel and advise same to avoid getting teardrops on the invoice as it will make the ink run and blur.

12. Retain vaseline container for next customer.

That's funny, but true.

[Threadcutter]

Some final steps to your procedure

10. Open customer wallet. Remove all paper money. Inspect carefully to ensure no money is left within.

11. Offer customer dry towel and advise same to avoid getting teardrops on the invoice as it will make the ink run and blur.

12. Retain vaseline container for next customer.

S:

12. Retain vaseline container for next customer.

Yes, and if you're at a Stealer, there's (lots of) sand in the vaseline................

[Ratatat]

LOL I will agree with those steps

[Randy&Bonnie]

I too have put brake pads on thousands of times in 30 years and not turned rotors unless they were below the thickness spec or warped. My dealership shop had 10 mechanics also doing the same. Thats a lot of proof you dont need to turn and ruin the customers rotors by taking mass off them. You take an expensive oem rotor and turn it down and you ruin it. Volvo said never turn rotors. Aftermarket rotors are so cheap now but you dont need to even pay for them if there is no warpage. The lip is no problem if the area the pads hit is still in spec.

I am very picky about maintenance, service, and safety of my cars.... Well, I haven't put brake pads on "thousands of times" in 40+ years, but many times without turning the rotors. I agree, I don't have the rotors turned unless there is a real problem with the surface. I have found that if the rotors are warped, turning them only fixes the warping problem for about 50 miles. That's just my worthless opinion. :D

[youngdoog]

I got a brake job from Midas in the middle 80's. I had a company S-10 pickup, and since I lived in an apartment in Austin, TX, I decided to get the job done by a well known installer, since my company paid the cost. What a joke. The newly arrived immigrant mechanic from a foreign nation had a book to help him, but it was obvious he was lost. After 8 hours, the job was done, but the brakes jingled and squealed. I took the truck back, but it was hopeless. I changed the brakes myself on a later Sunday afternoon. Looked like a buffoon in the apartment parking lot, but you get what you pay for, kids......

[mlgs300]

According to the Lexus Repair Manual, it states to measure disc thickness. Replace the disc if the thickness of the disc is at the minimum thickness or less. Replace the disc or grind it on a lathe if it is scored or worn unevenly. Measure disc runout using a dial indicator. If the disc's runout is maximum value or greater (say this in a Mr. Miyagi voice), check the bearing play in the axial direction and check the axle hub runout. If the bearing play and axle hub runout are not abnormal, adjust the disc runout or grind it on a "On-Car" brake lathe.

This is me now, not Mr. Miyagi - adjusting the disc runout is achieved by rotating the disc 1/5 turn and checking the runout again which you have to use a dial indicator and all that crap for.