Gas Prices

[RX in NC]

I'm quasi-okay with the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac bailout at this point as long as either one of the following occurs with all involved CEOs and CFOs at both of the institutions:

They are all immediately terminated with no additional salary, bonus, benefits, health coverage, or golden parachutes beyond their termination date - not one penny, period....

.... or....

They are all herded out behind the woodshed where they are promptly and cleanly shot....

I think either option would be fair to the general public....

[SW03ES]

I'm quasi-okay with the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac bailout at this point as long as either one of the following occurs with all involved CEOs and CFOs at both of the institutions:

They are all immediately terminated with no additional salary, bonus, benefits, health coverage, or golden parachutes beyond their termination date - not one penny, period....

My mother used to work for Fannie Mae years ago, she was a part of their accounting division and was laid off when they outsourced that which eventually contributed to the "cooking of the books" that occured with the leadership that took control around that time. She knows several people in the company and according to what she has been told this is precisely what is going to occur.

She did also recieve a letter just yesterday that the ESOP plan which sadly she had money in (she worked there for 12 years)is being disbanded with zero payout to shareholders. This plan is a BIG part of the upper executives compensation packages.

We'll see what happens to her pension...

[RX in NC]

Please convey my kindest regards to your mom. I truly do feel for her....

[SW03ES]

Yeah so do I. She's probably lost $80-$100,000 in this deal. What she's most concerned about is that pension, I would think the government would protect that but nobody has said anything about it as of yet. She starts collecting that in four years.

Luckily most of their retirement is in private investment (well...that hasn't ben doing so well either), my dad retired last year he was an executive in the commercial printing paper industry and obviously highly invested in his company as well through ESOP, etc. The paper and printing industries have had a very hard 5-6 years and a lot of his retirement through them has evaporated too.

[RX in NC]

No one can count on Corporate America providing for most of their retirement funds any longer. That security blanket will never return. It is one of the reasons that I took control of my own destiny about five years ago with my stock options trading and investment program. The risk and uncertainty of such an endeavor is not for everyone, but it has certainly done the job here in our household. Whatever pensions we eventually reap from my previous corporate positions will be nothing but chump change compared to what I can earn by playing in the options world. I am truly fortunate in this regard and I never lose sight of that fact....

[SW03ES]

You're absolutely right. My company doesn't offer any kind of retirement benefits (I work on a 1099) but Carla's does, we focus on building our retirement privately also, as should everyone.

If your pensions come through it'll be a pleasant surprise, thats the way to look at it.

[eatingupblacktop]

Gas prices jump by 12.9 cents

- This was today. It's going up another 2 cents tomorrow.

Here's the link:

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/497921

Quoting one post:

Bend over and say ahhhhhhhh....... Tanks alot.

[JENunnez]

Going to work this morning my jaw dropped when I saw the gas had gone up from 10 to 15 cents a gallon or more.

What the hell is this?

:chairshot:

[smooth1]

Heck, here in Orlando I saw gas jump $1.20 in 1 day!!! It went from 3.65 to 4.85 by the end of the day at the very gas station I filled up in that morning!!!! What the heck is going on?

[JENunnez]

Wow that goes beyond price gouging, thats more like stick the knife in and twist it a few times pull it out and do it again.

And we have no say in the matter and can't do a damn thing about it. (Maybe)

Ike, Chavez and Russia (doing war games for Chavez) have all contributed to this fiasco.

[nc211]

its from ike, disturbing the refineries in tx and la. the fear was in the distrubution of the actual gasoline to your local station. they said a blip could last about 3 or 4 days, max. friday morning gas was 3.55 here. friday night it was 4.20plus. i bought just enough for a few days only, and kept my receipt for proof of price gauging, which is rampid here. this morning though, were back to 3.79

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I'm quasi-okay with the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac bailout at this point as long as either one of the following occurs with all involved CEOs and CFOs at both of the institutions:

They are all immediately terminated with no additional salary, bonus, benefits, health coverage, or golden parachutes beyond their termination date - not one penny, period....

.... or....

They are all herded out behind the woodshed where they are promptly and cleanly shot....

I think either option would be fair to the general public....

Sure, bail 'em out ... why not ... what else can we do. And how does the fed do that? It prints more play money. What does more printed money do? It takes away value that the rest of us have in our savings. That's the nature of inflation & it's been going on now for decades. Compounding and then compounding of the compounding. The tital wave is coming. History always repeats itself & the U.S. will eventually face the same as every other country with worthless money ... backed only by a belief that it has value. You can wonder why all the water just rushed out of the bay, or you can do something else before the 75 foot wave comes rushing back in.

[nc211]

Until people are risking their lives on mattresses to get to Russia "like they do from Cuba to Miami daily", this country will ALWAYS be on the + of any checks and balances. Plus, let us not forget who's the big boy who comes to the defense of those not capable of defending themselves. And, who's flag is on the tailfin of the 1st relief plane into a devastated area with supplies. Plus, who wrote the book, who knocked down the Berlin wall, who won the Cold War, who is the model of the rest of the World's youth. Fact is, we have "capital" beyond our own understanding, and one day our blood will come paid in full. We've been on a mission for the past 8 years. World players know this, and know it costs far more then the 250m people here can pay. They knew that before the 1st B52 circled Kabul. We're on a free check for ponning up the balls to get at what's been eating at the EU for decades.

May I suggest one quote from Putin himself, 7 years ago on 10/2/01...."I fear the sleeping giant has been awoken."

It no longer matters who wins the election...our actions of the past 7 years will dominate any and all policies of any sitting president for the next decade. We've been punched, bruised, accused, blaimed, and used. But...we ain't been hung-out-to-dry. No sir. We're about to enter a period of INCREADIBLE growth! You watch....we're about to be "the" party guest.

[SW03ES]

Anybody who thinks that the government should allow Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to go under has no idea how our economy works...I'm sorry but thats true.

Warding off inflation does us no good if our economy fails...and takes the economies of the civilized world with us. If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac went under...the US economy would fail...as would the economies of dozens of other countries that own US mortgage backed securities as a part of their international interests. You would not be able to buy a house in this country unless you had cash and millions would loose their homes.

Lehman Bros...not as important which is why the government will allow it to fail without a bailout...but Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? They ARE America.

I don't completely agree with nc though, I think the Bush administration has done this country and the world great, great damage and I think the extent of that damage won't even be fully realized for years and years to come. "We've been on a mission" thats true, but that mission has cost us dearly and we're seeing that right now. The Bush administration's fiscal and foreign policy are directly to blame for these issues.

He sent this country into Iraq with no goals, no plan, and no understanding of the region's problems, he drastically increased spending while dramatically cutting taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals running up HUGE defecits, he misread Putin (who doesn't seem so impressed by the "sleeping giant" as of late), he accelerated the deregulation of the banking industry which helped to create this mess. He's a disaster...

[93LSOwner]

We've been punched, bruised, accused, blaimed, and used. But...we ain't been hung-out-to-dry. No sir. We're about to enter a period of INCREADIBLE growth! You watch....we're about to be "the" party guest.

Are we still talking about this country, the USA?

[nc211]

First of all: My apologies to SEGMN. I barked at you "if you saw it over night or not" unjustly, and I was wrong to do so. I have edited my last post and removed the barking.

Second of all: This is what happens to me when my wife and son go to the beach for a week with Grandma', and leave Dad at home, all by his lonesome self...with nothing to do...certainly not watch a Bruce Springsteen concert on his 42in' 1080i Plasma (instead of baby einstein), with 800 watts of pure American whoop-!Removed! power pumping through a 12 inch Pioneer sub "I like to call Rambo", with the volume set at "11" instead of "shhh, don't wake the baby". Nope, not me, no sir. And I certainly would not be the type to sit in his livingroom, and drink a bunch of beer while listening to Bruce Springsteen. Nope, not me, no sir. Nor would I be singing at the top of my lungs (a few many brews down the road) to "Born in the USA" as one of his final songs of the 3 hour concert, for the neighbors to all hear. Nope, not me, no sir. And, of course, I, of all people, would never, never ever never, after such an event, ever be one to come on here and bark my pro-american *BLEEP*n'vinager.

Man...is it going to be a long Monday.

[nc211]

Holy Smokes! I just saw the news about Lehman Brothers "which was anticipated to happen", but not AIG and Merril Lynch! WOW.

Well, I could be wrong, but a few posts back I mentioned that we'll see who's been playing in the oil sector, as prices continue to fall on the options side. I think we've seen three so far this week. Granted, they were in trouble to begin with, thanks to their heavy balance sheets of subprime portfolios. But the continuing decline of oil, in such a rapid fashion, certainly is hurting them too. I can't imagine what hundrends of millions of dollars of oil options bought when it was at $147, looks like today as it heads south of $95. All of this has taken place in just 90-120 days.

I certainly respect your points SWO, and they're very good ones. I certainly couldn't base any sort of real argument against them. Granted, today's economic platform is just in complete ruins, and Bush's policy on domestic economic issues "looked" good on paper, but at the end of the day, is turning out to be one massively expensive cluster-bumpkin. I also continue to think markets in general are nervous for this election. So much at stake, and eitherway you go, a different leader to take it over, of which neither platform has anything in common.

I do think though we're discounting the post-war benefits that seem to be getting closer and closer to reality. I'm so very happy to see the Iraqi people asking us to leave, as we've pretty much done what we've been there to do. I don't know amigo, we'll just have to wait and see. But I think a real wave of American pride will wash over this country when those soldiers start coming home. We've got to wrap up Osama though, it's been too long now.

[RX in NC]

Bush does indeed bear the burden of our economically-diminished country, and it will indeed be years before the ship gets fully righted again. Regardless of your patriotic leanings, nc211, history will deem George W. Bush as "WPE". That's the acronym for Worst President Ever. He can bring the troops home tomorrow, he can donate his entire estate and assets to the U.S. Treasury, he can humbly 'fess up and admit "man, I really blew my chances these past eight years didn't I?", hell, he can even learn to correctly pronounce the word "nuclear". It's all far too little and far too late. He will be remembered as a bumbling moron who was so far out of his league that the commissioner never even called....

Don't know who the current Village Idiot is in Crawford, Texas, but come January 21st, he's going to have to step aside by default....

[eatingupblacktop]

We've got to wrap up Osama though, it's been too long now.

Dont' think that's going to happen anytime soon. Throughout the last cenutury American foreign policy has always been supported and in many ways empowered by having a just cause. Until there is a viable replacement, Osama will stay elusive and remain the fall guy for the foreseable future. The military needs him. He is the cause.

[eatingupblacktop]

Holy Smokes! I just saw the news about Lehman Brothers "which was anticipated to happen", but not AIG and Merril Lynch! WOW.

[nc211]

Bush does indeed bear the burden of our economically-diminished country, and it will indeed be years before the ship gets fully righted again. Regardless of your patriotic leanings, nc211, history will deem George W. Bush as "WPE". That's the acronym for Worst President Ever. He can bring the troops home tomorrow, he can donate his entire estate and assets to the U.S. Treasury, he can humbly 'fess up and admit "man, I really blew my chances these past eight years didn't I?", hell, he can even learn to correctly pronounce the word "nuclear". It's all far too little and far too late. He will be remembered as a bumbling moron who was so far out of his league that the commissioner never even called....

Don't know who the current Village Idiot is in Crawford, Texas, but come January 21st, he's going to have to step aside by default....

There is no patriotic "learnings" about it. I'm not a student of it, I'm not new to it, I'm not on the learning curve, i'm in the briarpatch of what's going on. I've had countless mornings for the past 12+ months, when I get to my office, of voicemails from fellow participants in the $50m+ commercial investment world saying "we're out of money, got a deal in the hopper, can you help". And in 5 weeks, I'm going to watch my 21 year old brother in law head off to Afghanistan for his 1st tour of duty. He signed up for MP duty via the National Guard, and will be in tank duty full time, already been stop-lossed. Furthermore, I being one of two of the strongest members of his family "in-law" am proping up his fiance' to get through Cambell. When it comes to my theories of Bush, and the past 7 years, there is no "learnings" for me. I know it, I've come up the ladder in it, and because I've been paying attention, and didn't make stupid mistakes like leveraging myself to death on funky i/o "interest only" hybrid loans, will keep going up, along with my 820 credit score.

I understand people's negativety towards Bush. I understand it, and I'm not at all against it. Yes, he screwed the pooch. Yes, he made mistakes. Yes, he has an arrogance about him that irritates many, if not most. But, in my honest opinion, to blame him squarely for where we are today, well, is a scape-goat for not taking responsiblity for our own mistakes. As someone who's financed numerous mom'n'pop startups over the years, provided corporate lines of credit, business fleets of vehicles, working capital loans, and now several of those skyline buildings in Boston, Baltimore, DC, and Raleigh, I'm always amazed by the utter arrogance of the borrower who receives the loan check. Yet, never suprised when it fails to blame others for the loan check. We're in this economic mess not because Bush made us. We're in this mess because bank presidents, investment bankers, stock traders, credit rating shops, mortgage brokers, and average Joe American, got punch-drunk-greedy. We're in it because Bank President X allowed his institution to lend money on a 3/1, interest only, adjustable, loan, to those with 600 credit scores on stated income. We're in this because rating agencies were "for hire" and gave AAA ratings of security pools full of subprime loans, because Countrywide paid for it. We're in this, because regulators failed, period. To say we're in this because Bush alone caused it, just doesn't sit with me, at all. What else was a President to do after such an event as 9/11? Let the paralysis of shock of 9/11 set in? That would of crippled us across all levels. Bush had a blood-thirsty nation in shock. And, on top of that, was already in the grips of a recession created by the overly-bogus-bullsh*t values of the dot.com bubble that happened under Clinton's watch. Bush, and his administration, in my opinion, had no other option but to make money cheap, so folks in a "consumer driven" society could ease the shock of being attacked, divert their lust for revenge, with a new car, new DVD player, etc. And, it worked, as evidenced by every single skyline of every single American city in this country, with their new towers, newly renovated "slums", new schools, etc. BUT, the train got going so damn fast, it derailed. And, if he is to be blamed for anything, it's for not listening to the one voice of concern in a room of hundreds of greedy chumps that said "we're not on track". Greenspan is to blame for letting rates sit to low for too long. And, quite frankly, Joe American is to blame as well. Not for taking a 3/1 interest only loan on a $400k house "when he makes $45k a year", but for being so arrogant after the loan closed that he would earn enough money in three years when the rate changed to a normal schedule that he didn't have to worry about. Joe American is also to blame for thinking his $700 mortgage payment gave him enough wiggle room to trade that Chevy for a new Lexus. That 12 foot bass-boat for a new 22 foot Boston Whaler. That Ole' reliable Honda Shadow 500 for a Harley Ultra-Glide.

No, the real blame, is on US. We got caught up in it, didn't want to think about tomorrow, and have been living beyond our means for too long. You get an audience like that, and you can bet your soul the players on the stage will take advantage of it, like the CEO's of all the failed banks, investment houses, and all others who paid too much attention to their new Mercedes Benz, instead of the logics of Finance 101 taught at their local community colleges. My dad's former company spent 15 years giving it's policy holders a 73% ROE (return on equity) with his "stick to the fundamentals" approach to investments. He fought off those in the parent company that wanted to "leverage" that kind of return by blending it with Wall Street. The day after he retired, the parent company finally gained access to his shop. 18 months later, it's closed as a complete failure "Aug. 15th, 2008". Greed got it, and arrogance killed it. "Principal" of the matter...arrogance is the kiss of death, as it will blind you to the things nipping in the shadows to kill you.

Bush isn't innocent by any means, but "he alone" isn't to blame. When you can get a mortgage faster than a pizza, you know what's going to hit the fan...just a matter of time.

PS: On a brighter note: Anyone see the cost of oil today? UNDER $95! Even with all that's going on, hurricanes spinning around in the gulf, 12 destroyed platforms, Russia lurking with their crackhead buddy in Venezuela...it STILL keeps falling! We clean up Wall Street, get this election behind us....I smell dollar rally coming........

[SW03ES]

But what you're not taking into account is that the banks got into all of these loans because they were huge profit streams made available to them because Bush and other republicans deregulated the banking industry to such a degree that banks could do whatever they wanted. No guidelines for lending...no usury ceilings. The free market is all well and good...but sometimes guidelines need to be in place. THATS why you could get that mortgage loan as easy as a Pizza...

On top of irresponsible tax cuts coupled with huge increases in spending and the size and scope of government, this has created this mess. Can't blame that on anyone but Bush.

9/11 9/11 9/11. Thats all Bush's few fans have to say. Its time to get past 9/11. We needed leadership and for a breif moment it looked like he was going to give it...but he got punch drunk greedy just like you've accused everyone else as being.

9/11 was 7 years ago...we've got to look forward.

[nc211]

But what you're not taking into account is that the banks got into all of these loans because they were huge profit streams made available to them because Bush and other republicans deregulated the banking industry to such a degree that banks could do whatever they wanted. No guidelines for lending...no usury ceilings. The free market is all well and good...but sometimes guidelines need to be in place. THATS why you could get that mortgage loan as easy as a Pizza...

I agree, but in the argument of the chicken and the egg, if a former college grad who's 6 months into his first job at Countrywide can run debt/income ratios, read a basic tax return, and see what he/she is approving for a loan really doesn't work, then wouldn't you think the policy makers at that institution could too? It's kind of like driving a car that can go 160 mph. Just because the speedlimit has been eliminated, doesn't mean you've got the same percentage of surviability in a crash, as someone going 65 mph. I'm not accusing "everyone" of being punch-drunk. But you've got to admit man, seriously, especially in your line of work, how many new home buyers have you seen that before the ink dried on the documents was picking up a new car too? Granted, not that it's all wrong, but I know you've had to of met at least one or two that had you scratching your head after it was all done and said for.

Eitherway, we've got a mess, and I hope regulations return to a certain degree. I hear you about 9/11. I'm not trying to revert back to it as an excuse "I'm no Rudy". But, you must admit, this country has been operating under it's shadow ever since. I agree with you Steve, we need to move beyond it. And I am more than ready to do so. I think it's no secret of my political party pick. But, I am sooo ready for a new president, I don't care who it is, just no more Bush.

[SW03ES]

Oh sure, I've met plenty of people that left me scratching my head.

Its not really a chicken and the egg kinda thing. Before deregulation you had to document everything in order to obtain a mortgage loan, banks were dissuaded from taking on risky debt because of usury ceilings. After deregulation both of those things changed, along with a bunch of other things.

Its Bush's domestic and foreign policies that are at the root of these issues. People are people, Americans have always had a drive to live beyond their means. What deregulation has done is make it extremely profitable for banks to finance these lifestyles at huge risk. Now that risk is catching up to them. Its fine to say its their fault...but had Bush and the republicans had some forethought before making those regulatory changes in the first place it never would have happened.

They wanted it to happen to distract Americans with a phony lifestyle. Pretending everything is great was no way to respond to 9/11. The rebound from the 2001 recession was a total farce...

You're making their argument for them "If we can see it, can't they see it too?" The answer is obviously not! Regulation is in order.

[RX in NC]

nc211,

You've been so busy yapping on this thread that you didn't even take the time to carefully read what I posted. I wrote "patriotic LEANINGS", not "learnings". Totally different intention and meaning, my friend. That juxtapositional error on your part essentially negates the need for the entire first paragraph you rattled off on your keyboard after reading my short post....

Also, where in my post do you see me blaming Bush ALONE for the mess that our country now finds itself in? Culpability runs wide and deep, just as you implied. But just like the CEO in the business world, in politics the head honcho (I think that "decider" would be a more appropriate term here) is by default responsible for the operating policy and ultimately must bear the burden of the consequences. And again, if you'll carefully read my post, I used that exact phrase - bear the burden....

You're preaching to the choir when you talk about fiscal responsibility on both a personal and a corporate level. I run the tightest household ship of anyone I've ever met - just ask my routinely-complaining wife. I can document every penny that has flowed into and out of this household since October 1979. My system is breathtakingly simple, all on paper still to this day, and requires only 24 8.5-by-11-inch sheets of paper per year, all stored in just two large three-ring binders in my home office. I designed my system over the course of a weekend back in September 1979 and have had very little need to do any modifications to it, just a tweak here and there as a new category was needed (i.e. broadband expenses) or an old category dropped off (i.e. childcare expenses). As a direct result of my simple yet persistent diligence, we've been totally debt-free (no mortgage and no consumer loans of any kind) since June 1990. Credit card and insurance companies continue to beg for my business when they should have realized decades ago that they will never earn a penny off of me in interest or fees. If more American citizens would run their households as hard-hearted as I do, this country would not be in nearly as bad a fix as we find ourselves in now. Most folks don't understand the difference between spending and investing, and even more don't have the unwavering discipline to apply that knowledge to each and every expenditure they make, day in and day out, year after year. You don't get rich and debt-free in one fell swoop unless you win the lottery - you do it gradually by applying proven fundamental tactics to your bank accounts every single day. Yes, it's boring and it doesn't constitute the next best-seller at amazon.com. But you know what? It freaking works for those who stick to it....

Most business people today are beside themselves on what happened over the weekend with Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch, and what might happen with AIG. Who's next to fall? What about my 401K? How am I going to handle that big home equity loan I took out last year to buy that stupid Hummer that I can't sell now?

Not me, buddy. I'll spend today buying up some pretty cheap options mostly in the tech sector but perhaps just a couple of plays in the financial sector. Some will be calls, and some will be puts. While most people are still close to the panic stage, I'm out there looking for deals. It's a damn fine (and fun) way to make a living these days, don't you think?!