Synthetic Or No Synthetic

[Pursuit]

Hey guys I have an 02' LS430 that is 600 miles shy of needing an oil change. I put Mobil 1 synthetic oil in all my other cars but I dont know if it is safe to do in this one. Let me know what you guys use and what the advantages/disadvantages of synthetic for this particular car are. Thanks

[SuperCoupe400]

Synthetics are more than "safe" for the LS430, they're "best" for extending the life of your engine. Doesn't matter what type of auto it is. The critical thing is how many miles were put on the car before synthetic is first used in it. Opinions differ on what that magic number is, but on an '02, I don't think you have a thing to worry about. The concern is that if a car has too many miles (probably upwards of 60k, but I'm no expert) on regular motor oil, that switching to synth will expose and leak through cracked and/or weak gaskets.

I feared this too, upon acquiring my '93 SC400 two years ago with 88k on it. I knew the oil had been changed regularly, but suspected the previous owner was not likely using Mobil1. But i've been using Mobil1 now since day one - and haven't had one single gasket leak. So given that trial, I think you're more than safe by switching to full synth on your (much newer than my car) LS.

Since you're not new to synthetics, you may also want to check out Amsoil. I'll stop short of a recommendation, because I have yet to try the product out on my own car. But their Series 2000 Synthetic 0W-30 is of particular interest to me due to its long service life - mainly because I'm a do-it-yourself grease monkey who'd rather be monkeying around with other things besides changing oil every 5k to 7k mi. Check it out.

[nc211]

Pusuit "nice boats by the way", I have a feeling you'll find all the answers and debates over this issue with the search option. We've all discussed this issue into the ground, and had a few debates over it as well. This is one of the most active topics on here. I believe the threads were all moved to the maintenacne section. But to answer your question about Mobile 1 synthetic....i use it too, and started around the 90k mark. They can cause leaks in the seals of your oil pan though, but it is rare. It just depends on the condition of that seal.

I would also recommend doing a seach for Seafoam, as some of us "including me" have used the seafoam proceedure in our oil to clean up the inside of the engine right before we change the oil. Some have had positive effects, some have had no effects. I have had great effects from it. Just do a search, grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the banter.

[philg]

How do people feel about synthetic blend oil? Is it the best of both synthetic and organic or is it junk?

[mannye]

Hey guys I have an 02' LS430 that is 600 miles shy of needing an oil change. I put Mobil 1 synthetic oil in all my other cars but I dont know if it is safe to do in this one. Let me know what you guys use and what the advantages/disadvantages of synthetic for this particular car are. Thanks

Hey! Nice to see a fellow miamian on here! Lots of Lexus running around here, but I just went to the dealer service department in Kendall today and they need a month almost if I want a loaner!!! That's insane!

I also have a 1969 Roadrunner that probably used dino for 20+ years and is now running very happily on Mobil 1. For about 7 years now.. With no leaks or other issues. It actually seems to run better... (note this is not a scientific, but rather a SOTP type of thing...it probably runs absolutely the same...)

[mannye]

How do people feel about synthetic blend oil? Is it the best of both synthetic and organic or is it junk?

i don't think it's junk at all...in FACT it shows just how compatible synth and dino really are! Is it junk? Probably not, but as to better than one or the other? I can't say. Anyone?

[Darrell J]

Well.. Ive heard that synthetic blends are not that great.. The have no increase in performance over regular oil... Plus they have to be changed as regular as ordinary oil.. around 3-4,000 miles

Go ahead and get the full synthetic oil... Mobil 1 has 100% synthetic oil that is GUARANTEED for 15,000 miles

Yup I said it.. 15,000 miles... 5 quart container at walmart for $28.00.. Thats 1 oil change a year.. Maybe 2 if you want to play it safe....

Another good brand is penzoil and castrol... Anything else is JUNK... sorry...

[SuperCoupe400]

Well.. Ive heard that synthetic blends are not that great.. The have no increase in performance over regular oil... Plus they have to be changed as regular as ordinary oil.. around 3-4,000 miles

I don't know. Sounds like you may have gotten some bad info. Assuming you're using the proper (synthetic grade) oil filter with it, longevity should be increased. If the synthetic is being run through a standard filter, then its purpose is defeated and, yes, it must be changed at the same intervals as organic.

Go ahead and get the full synthetic oil... Mobil 1 has 100% synthetic oil that is GUARANTEED for 15,000 miles

Yup I said it.. 15,000 miles... 5 quart container at walmart for $28.00.. Thats 1 oil change a year.. Maybe 2 if you want to play it safe....

Another good brand is penzoil and castrol... Anything else is JUNK... sorry...

You might want to just take a little peek at this. https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tso.aspx

Makes Mobil 1 look like baby formula - especially since this product has been acheiving that 15k mark for at least the past 10 years. Mobil has just now hit that plateu. But scroll on down in this link and see how many miles you can get on a single oil chnage - it'll blow your mind. I haven't tried it yet but trust me, I will this summer. I put 22k-23k a year on my ride. Plus my brother, whose a cert. mechanic working on fleet vehicles owned by the City of Detroit says the city uses this stuff. And the intervals stated on that web link hold water!

[SW03ES]

Another good brand is penzoil and castrol... Anything else is JUNK... sorry...

I also have to agree, there are several other synthetic brands that are very good.

As for Mobil 1 being "guaranteed" for 15k miles, where does Mobil make any such guarantee? Mobil 1 has no mileage guarantee at all. Mobil does have new new Extended Performance synthetic oil that supposedly is good for 15k (not in my car, every 5k synthetic or not since Lexus says oil change intervals cannot be extended with synthetic oil), but ordinary Mobil 1 is not.

[mburnickas]

[

You might want to just take a little peek at this. https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tso.aspx

Makes Mobil 1 look like baby formula - especially since this product has been acheiving that 15k mark for at least the past 10 years. Mobil has just now hit that plateu. But scroll on down in this link and see how many miles you can get on a single oil chnage - it'll blow your mind. I haven't tried it yet but trust me, I will this summer. I put 22k-23k a year on my ride. Plus my brother, whose a cert. mechanic working on fleet vehicles owned by the City of Detroit says the city uses this stuff. And the intervals stated on that web link hold water!

Amsoil and Mobil are very close from a drain interval. Looking at the new UOA, Amsoil has more ZDDP, Ca, higher TBN, lower Noack, low/no ash etc. What you are missing is Mobil was doing 25K in the 70's too. Also there are many users doing 10,000 miles intervals with Mobil 1 for years now. Not getting into it but I find it very hard to believe that users are going 20 to 25K (max) on a single oil change with a normal full flow filter. Are you doing UOA here; if not, you would be amazed on how the oil comes out. If will be far LESS performance then you think. If you have them, post them please. I like Amsoil but there 25K is not a real number. When I was a dealer, yes I was for years, there 25K longevity was in a lab environment and most will not "get there".

Also their drain intervals are easy if you have a bypass, which I am sure some fleets have. The normal person, bypasses are not worth the extra money. There are also many other good synthetics out there.

To close, I am not being a jerk etc, but what I find odd is that most oil debates are brand related this and that; 99% of these debates never seem to bring in oil tests (users posting that topic). I know many dealers of Amsoil say "25K miles to their customers; that I find too funny and incorrect. Example, if you are doing 20 to 25K using Amsoil in an ES300 from 98 to 2003 (good luck), you WILL have sludge.

That being stated, I am using a blend (aka: full synthetic) in my car right now (walfart baby!)

PS. I also think Lexus's stance on synthetic is only to save there behind.

[Scrub Hunter]

I think the key is having a good filter system, like a quality bypass system, then extending your drain intervals is the smart play. 25k miles on a good bypass system with a quality synthetic is the way to go. If everyone did this it would be environmentally friendly and your engines would last longer. The key is removing more contaminants from yuor oil to keep it prestine longer, and that is exactly what a bypass system will do for you. Now if you have a sludge proned engine, that's another thing entirely, but most smart people would suggest that that is even more of a reason to have a bypass. Want a little extra security, run something like Autorx in there in a maintenance dose. Put mobil one in that car by all means, in fact put it in any Lexus and you will be doing yourself a favor. I new someone who excusively use Mobil 1 for 10 plus years and the oil was hardly ever dirty and showed no signs of wear.

[92Lex]

Would a "bypass" system effect actual oil pressure? I'm running a turbo and cannot afford to have an oil pressure drop within my system. Yes, it'd be an environmentally friendly approach to the situation, not to mention, reduce oil change intervals/money spent. But, I have a 15k motor on the line. I'm more than happy to reduce oil change intervals, via an external bypass but, please explain.

[Scrub Hunter]

I know people who put 90kplus on turbo diesel bypass filters, I've even heard of 120k on a bypass. Don't believe me -check out TDR website, (turbodeiselregistry). One of these links even show 500k miles between oil changes, and that's on heavy trucks. They do oil analysis along the way and it always seams to come back recommending the oil not needing changing yet. To be honest I would do some research on if it's appropiate for your application. I know for a fact it's a very good option for a turbo deisel as I had one, and they are also very good for standard gas motors. The usual problem is finding a place to put it, but if you have that solved I would think it would be appropiate for any application, but that is just an opinion. The main difference in a bypass is having two substancial filters versus one standard filter. Standard filters allowing particles up to 20 microns floating around your oil and bypass reducing that to 1 micron, and as a bonus it makes changing your own oil much easier. The downside is cost of the filters, but if you extend you Drain intervals it more than pays for itself, especially if you use synthetic oil. I know you can find varying oil flow in your bypass filters so if your worried about it just check a heavier flow filter. The question is a personal one for you, do you think perhaps slightly reducing oil pressure is more of a threat than having larger particles in your oil floating around? I'd guess there are also heavy duty oil pumps that would totally ease your mind.

http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/how_do_i_e...utine_oil_c.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._67/ai_73410122

[mburnickas]

I think scrub hit it on the head so to speak. Bypass filters are great but you need to do the numbers. For me, they work nice but not cost effective. Throw in a full flow filter, a bypass along with oil analysis it costs more then a complete oil change. When I had my diesel turbo (Powerstroke) from Ford, it again was more cost effective to dump the oil (Amsoil HDMAD) then do the bypass route.

Like my lexus, oil analyisis is approx $20, my complete oil change is $15. Not worth the time etc.

[92Lex]

Thanks for the informative replies. I'm going to stick with what's working for me though. I don't have much room in my engine bay, so that filter would be a headache to mount.

[Darrell J]

I use synthetic in my ls430, bmw 740il, and chevy tahoe... all penzoil ... and they are great.. i buy the 5qt at walmart for 19.98 then go to Autozone and get the Bosch filter for about 4 bucks.. and im set to go... 3 synthetic oil changes would cost me over $150.00 I save about $80.00 when i do it myself

[ArchieES350]

Another good brand is penzoil and castrol... Anything else is JUNK... sorry...

I also have to agree, there are several other synthetic brands that are very good.

As for Mobil 1 being "guaranteed" for 15k miles, where does Mobil make any such guarantee? Mobil 1 has no mileage guarantee at all. Mobil does have new new Extended Performance synthetic oil that supposedly is good for 15k (not in my car, every 5k synthetic or not since Lexus says oil change intervals cannot be extended with synthetic oil), but ordinary Mobil 1 is not.

SW,

I just bought my ES350. Since Lexus requires us to change the oil every 5K or 6 months (regardless of synthetic or not), do you use synthetic or just whatever the dealership puts in? If you do use synthentic then would it be safe to assume you still feel there is sufficent long term benefits to your engine to justify the additional cost even with the frequent oil changes required.

thanks

[mburnickas]

They cannot require you to do anything with your oil. Lexus is way behind the times on oil.

[SuperCoupe400]

SW,

I just bought my ES350. Since Lexus requires us to change the oil every 5K or 6 months (regardless of synthetic or not), do you use synthetic or just whatever the dealership puts in? If you do use synthentic then would it be safe to assume you still feel there is sufficent long term benefits to your engine to justify the additional cost even with the frequent oil changes required.

thanks

I'm no expert on oil, but it just seems to make sense to me that if you've got an oil (synthetic) that has extended life properties plus a filter that's able to trap oil impurities for extended periods of time (15k mi +), then that should satisfy the requirments of any engine - regardless of how often they demand the oil be changed.

It's kinda like when you go to Home Depot to buy a tree to plant in your yard. The instructions on the planting tag say dig a hole 3-times the diameter of the pot. But what they don't tell you is that this practice is only necessary when you're planting in soil that is well compacted, un-fortified with nutrients and hasn't been recently disturbed. If the area you're planting is recently tilled soil, there's absolutely no need to dig a hole any bigger than the root bulb, because the surrounding dirt is soft enough to allow the roots to grow uninhibited.

Similarly, I take the manufacturer's recommendations about frequent oil changes is more in reference to the use of organic oils or synthetics with no extended wear properties. Of course, if you're not using the right filter with it, you won't get 15k mi from any oil - not safely anyway.

[LS400_Fan]

Only problem with synthetic on a high mileage motor is whether or not it will leak as previous poster has said. Try and see if you get any leaks. If you do, i'd just use normal oil.

[mburnickas]

Similarly, I take the manufacturer's recommendations about frequent oil changes is more in reference to the use of organic oils or synthetics with no extended wear properties. Of course, if you're not using the right filter with it, you won't get 15k mi from any oil - not safely anyway.

Have you tried to test your oil on this car? I only ask since I was using amsoil ASL and 15K (on several samples) & it would be no problem in my lexus. 15K on a group 4 or 5 oil is not a problem if your car is running correctly

Again Lexus is way behind on the 8-ball on oil. You could use a $4 to $9 filter and go 15K miles.

[mburnickas]

Only problem with synthetic on a high mileage motor is whether or not it will leak as previous poster has said. Try and see if you get any leaks. If you do, i'd just use normal oil.

Would would you switch back? Seems that dino is a temp fix to your problem. You have seal leaks and the dino sludge is holding them back.

[SuperCoupe400]

Only problem with synthetic on a high mileage motor is whether or not it will leak as previous poster has said. Try and see if you get any leaks. If you do, i'd just use normal oil.

My SC had 89k when I got it - with regular dealer service intervals. I don't know whther or not synth was used. But I've used Mobil 1 since day one and in the 2 1/2 years and 60k miles I've had it, I haven't had a single gasket leak. But you do raise an important point, LS400_Fan, about how synth will commonly expose weaknesses in gaskets. I consider 89k 'high' when it comes to switching from organic to synthetic oil. But, again, because I had checked and knew the previous owner had regular maintenance done, I didn't sweat it - and it worked out in my favor.

For the record, I entend on switching to Amsoil 0w30 this summer and putting to task their claim (on that particular oil) that it will last up to 35k mi in conjunction with their new filters that will go 25k. I'll be sending a sample in for testing after 15k, then again at about 20k. If it still looks good at the one-year mark (about 22k mi for me), then I'll be a happy camper.

[mburnickas]

For the record, I entend on switching to Amsoil 0w30 this summer and putting to task their claim (on that particular oil) that it will last up to 35k mi in conjunction with their new filters that will go 25k. I'll be sending a sample in for testing after 15k, then again at about 20k. If it still looks good at the one-year mark (about 22k mi for me), then I'll be a happy camper.

I think, based on using Amsoil for way to many years, there 35K miles is not gonna happen. There EAO filters are the best out there and 20K is not out of reach (25K is getting out there). I would use there normal oil unless you need the extra ZDDP, moly and or TBN.

Based on using it and testing, 15K would not be a problem (with most of there oils). Neither should 20. I do not know the engine history but I would test at 12, 17, and 21. Problem with extended drains is if you have poor gaskets, poor air filter, poor fuel system they all feed into the oil (and tests will show).

[SW03ES]

SW,

I just bought my ES350. Since Lexus requires us to change the oil every 5K or 6 months (regardless of synthetic or not), do you use synthetic or just whatever the dealership puts in? If you do use synthentic then would it be safe to assume you still feel there is sufficent long term benefits to your engine to justify the additional cost even with the frequent oil changes required.

thanks

I have the oil changed every 5k and I run Mobil 1 synthetic. Since I own the car, and I know this engine runs hotter than most and they've had sludging problems in the past I don't have a problem paying the extra for the Mobil 1. I use the dealer, and the Mobil 1 costs me $30, and they credit me $20 for not using their oil, so it really only costs me $10 more.

Now, if it were an LS I wouldn't do that.