Problems On The Way Home....

[MarioC]

Well, Recently I purchased a 1991 LS 400 with only 97K on the OD. I was very excited to get such a clean car owned by a elderly person-whom I know well-

On the way home, 2 states away, I broke down 1 mile before my exit on the hwy lol. AAA towed me to a lexus dealer where I dropped off the car overnight-since it was midnight- and I eagerly await the details.

So the car was running fine with no warning lights visible on the dash when the lights go off radio and all accessory lights dim as the car starts to stutter then die. It wasnt exhibiting any strange behavior up to this point and was cruising very nicely at 80mph. The car once stopped on the side of the road would not turn over, apparent lack of charge in the battery. Now the gas tank was below a quarter tank but the low gas light was not on.

I checked the connections on the battery and they were a bit loosen than I would have liked it but once the AAA guy showed he tried jumping me. The engine started but after less than 2 or 3 minutes it would stutter and die in the same manner. We added gas in case the guage is off-it is a 15 year old car- but alas that was not the case.

He surmised it could be the alternator, or possibly the fuel pump but with little else to go on Im awaiting the monday morning call from the dealer.

Question-

Anyone ever use Tom Wood Lexus in Indy? I know Lexus dealers treat customers very well but im afraid this is gonna cost me more than it would a local place.

Question 2 -

What should a alternator cost me on a first generation LS?

Question 3 -

Can you believe my luck>?, breaking down the first night I own the car ; ; :cries:

*edit* tried to edit mispelled title, but couldnt figure it out lol

[mehullica]

Sounds like the alternator crapped out, maybe due to the p/s pump leaking onto it.

[MarioC]

thx for the reply-the previous owner did tell me he had a power streering leak a year or two ago that he added fluid to that didnt leak again >< hope its not that that sounds so expensive

MC

[1990LS400]

It could be a bad battery. If the battery is more than three years old, then replace it.

I have had the same problem happen numerous (four or five) times over a 16 year period and on two different LS400's (90 and 00) and it was (almost) always the battery. I have never gotten more than four years (OK, I once got 4 years, 3 months) out of a battery on an LS. Several name brand batteries have lasted only three years. When my 00 LS engine died in 2004 while turning into a parking lot, I got it restarted, drove straight to the repair shop and got a new battery -- problem solved.

But one time I had a similar problem and it actually was the alternator -- the alternator failed from leaking fluid from the power steering pump -- a very, very common problem.

See if the battery will take a charge -- very easy to check with a charger. If it won't take a charge then replace the battery.

If the alternator is bad and if its failure was caused by a leaking power steering pump failure, consider making a drip guard out of a plastic bottle to protect the alternator (you can find instructions on this forum) -- even if you have the power steering pump replaced. Power steering pumps on the early LS fail over and over and over and have to be either rebuilt or replaced over and over and over -- its a "feature".

Bummer that this happened so soon after you bought your "new" car.

But once you get over this little hump, you will be very happy with your LS.

[blake918]

Welcome Mario! I could only imagine how heartbreaking it would be to have a "new" car break down on it's maiden voyage back to the house! I too agree that it's probably the alternator. Park Place is selling the alternator for $275: http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...amp;catalogid=1. The labor on the alternator is very, very minimal-less than an hour. Parts and labor at the dealer, I'd bet they won't let you out for less than $400-$500. ;)

You can't edit titles, but I fixed it for you! ;)

[MarioC]

Thx for the replies and encouragement everyone.

Ill let you guys know what they say in the morning.

:whistles: Crosses fingers it doesnt cost a grand

[Threadcutter]

Thx for the replies and encouragement everyone.

Ill let you guys know what they say in the morning.

:whistles: Crosses fingers it doesnt cost a grand

Mario;

Possible chain of events are;

Power Steering Solenoid (on steering rack) Screen gets clogged with "munge". It doesn't get cleaned (ever), causing the pressure in the P/S system to exceed what the P/S pump can handle. The P/S Pump starts to leak, dripping P/S fluid onto the alternator. The alternator "degrades" over time, no longer fully charging the battery, causing the battery to finally crap out. The alternator is probably toast as well.

Anyway, the moral to the story is; don't just "pop" a new battery in the vehicle without having these other details checked out as well. Otherwise, you'l be back in there shortly, throwing more money at it. Have someone competent check the screen on the P/S solenoid, check the entire charging system, including the battery.

This is a bit convoluted, but it illustrates how a "totally unrelated" filter/screen can kill a battery. Impossible you say?...........Hah!

[OmarG]

I'm sure your LS is fine. I will jump on the bandwagon and say alternator. Sucks that it happen on your first drive. oh well. What color is your LS?

[1990LS400]

The point I was making was that the failure of several different components can cause the engine to die while driving.

In about 1993-4, the engine on my first LS started to occasionally die while driving -- my basic 4 year/50K mile warranty had just expired. A service advisor at Superior Lexus in Kansas City told me that the main engine computer had failed and that they would replace it and fix the problem for about $1,000.

When I told him that I was going to take my LS to an indie Lexus repair shop for a 2nd opinion, the dealer service writer "did a little dance" and told me that mechanic had discovered that the problem was instead caused by a bad battery cable.

Be vigilant!

[TennesseeLexus]

MarioC

The senario that you experienced happened to me 1 month ago. On my 1996 LS400 (176k miles) my P/S pump leaked on my alternator causing it to fail. I was driving back from Birmingham, AL at 12:00 midnight and pulled into my garage and it died!!! Talk about LUCKY. They are right about the price to repair. Good luck and I know your LS will bring you many, many years/miles of fun and enjoyment.

[lexus400]

Don't overthink it.... leaving you stranded is a rare event with these cars on not indicative of a bad one. This is probably one of those things you would have noticed beforehand if you owned the car for a while.

Bob

[MarioC]

Well you gents were right, PS leaked onto alternator frying alternator. Dealer wants 1500 to fix :o

After speaking to the previous owner he told me had the Powersteering lines replaced a year ago at a cost of 450 dollars. He didnt have that work done at a dealer but at a local shop where the car used to live. He offered to call them and see if they would take any responsibility for their work.

Otherwise the car has to sit for a while in my driveway-once I get it towed-till I can find someone else locally here to fix it for ALOT cheaper since I cant really afford that much right now with my wedding fast approching.

If anyone knows a good reputable mechanic someone near Indianapolis Indiana please let me know.

1991 LS400

White ext. with black leather interior

97k on odometor and holding......

BTW offtopic

has anyone used this clickable smile recently? :snoooorrrtttt: made me laugh when I saw it on the extended list.

[SKperformance]

Is it still leaking or is it just the alternator has finally given up from previous condition?

[MarioC]

Not sure SK, its still at the dealer tho I may get it towed outta there tommorow. Ill check if its still leaking when I get it home, was hard to see much at midnight after driving for 5 hours when it broke down.

[lexus082]

Not sure SK, its still at the dealer tho I may get it towed outta there tommorow. Ill check if its still leaking when I get it home, was hard to see much at midnight after driving for 5 hours when it broke down.

I just recently replaced my alternator and p.s. pump and if I had done that job for someone and they paid me $1500 to do the job I would feel like a crook. Its not very hard to do that repair. I don't know your skill level but its not worth that much money. Its not a very difficult job, but it is time consuming, but still relatively straight forward. If you are going to have it fixed by a shop make sure they clean the power steering solenoid and flush the power steering system. If you dont have an indie your could take it to a Toyota dealer. It would be a little bit cheaper if you had it fixed at Toyota. Probably 97% or maybe even 100% of LS400 and SC400 owners will eventually have this problem. Its too bad they designed the PS pump to sit above the alternator. I myself could tell you myself (as I'm sure many others could also) the repair procedure from memory on how to repair it. Good luck its still a great car especially with that low mileage.

[SRK]

I used a Maval rebuilt pump - not Fenco which are junk - and had the alternator checked at a local automotive electrical shop I have used for years in my business. The pump was about $375.00 Can. and the alternator needed new brushes, and was otherwise perfect, which being a Denso part, makes sense as they are about as good as they get. The alternator repair cost $45.00.

What gets me is that the alternators are replaced with a new part, when all that is wrong with them is the carbon brushes go bad because of the ATF. That's like selling your car because the ashtray is full.....

Yank the parts out yourself and fix it, or at least direct a good independant to have the alternator repaired, and not replaced. Check the yellow pages for a good industrial rebuilding shop that deals in starters and alternators.

[Threadcutter]

Not sure SK, its still at the dealer tho I may get it towed outta there tommorow. Ill check if its still leaking when I get it home, was hard to see much at midnight after driving for 5 hours when it broke down.

I just recently replaced my alternator and p.s. pump and if I had done that job for someone and they paid me $1500 to do the job I would feel like a crook. Its not very hard to do that repair. I don't know your skill level but its not worth that much money. Its not a very difficult job, but it is time consuming, but still relatively straight forward. If you are going to have it fixed by a shop make sure they clean the power steering solenoid and flush the power steering system. If you dont have an indie your could take it to a Toyota dealer. It would be a little bit cheaper if you had it fixed at Toyota. Probably 97% or maybe even 100% of LS400 and SC400 owners will eventually have this problem. Its too bad they designed the PS pump to sit above the alternator. I myself could tell you myself (as I'm sure many others could also) the repair procedure from memory on how to repair it. Good luck its still a great car especially with that low mileage.

082:

Nice Post, Good for you;

If you are going to have it fixed by a shop make sure they clean the power steering solenoid and flush the power steering system.

IMHO, this is THE ROOT CAUSE of the majority of problems with P/S systems & alternators dying. It makes no sense whatsoever to repair everything else & not clean the Solenoid screen & flush the system.

Also, I agree with everything you've said above. I don't personally believe the work is all that difficult, but it is somewhat time consuming. After you've done the first, each one after that will take half as long.

I'd suggest NOT replacing the P/S lines, particularly if they're only about a year old. I've got a '95 with original lines & a rebuilt Maval P/S pump. I agree with SRK, the Maval pump works just fine.

[05IS300]

$1500.00 parts and labor isn't out of line depending on what they are replacing.I've done an alt on my 90 LS and can say it sucked without a lift.If you are getting P/S pump,line and alt the price sounds right.My LS has 278k on it so don't get frustrated with it breaking down.I would take it to a Toyota Dealer so they can have one of their Techs learn how to work on the LS400 using you car as a test car.(sarcasm)

[MarioC]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I checked with the dealer-since im still at work-and they said that the PS is still leaking, in fact the mechanic got a little defensive with me about all the questions I asked, so Im definately getting the car outta there.

I wish I was handy and had a the tools/lift to do the work at home so im left with trying to find a indie place to do the work for me. I may try buying the PS you guys recommended and get the alternator rebuilt to save some moolah ^^ thanks for all the help guys :D

[Threadcutter]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I checked with the dealer-since im still at work-and they said that the PS is still leaking, in fact the mechanic got a little defensive with me about all the questions I asked, so Im definately getting the car outta there.

I wish I was handy and had a the tools/lift to do the work at home so im left with trying to find a indie place to do the work for me. I may try buying the PS you guys recommended and get the alternator rebuilt to save some moolah ^^ thanks for all the help guys :D

Mario:

I'm sorry to sound like "an Old Woman".........but make sure that the Rack Solenoid Screen gets cleaned & the P/S system gets flushed. The Screen is clogged & that is the root cause of your problem(s).

the mechanic got a little defensive with me about all the questions I asked, so Im definately getting the car outta there.

Good Call!

I may try buying the PS you guys recommended.

I think you can find the Maval online for about $180.00 with a $50.00 Core. I'll take a look tonight & post if I find you something.

[nc211]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I checked with the dealer-since im still at work-and they said that the PS is still leaking, in fact the mechanic got a little defensive with me about all the questions I asked, so Im definately getting the car outta there.

I wish I was handy and had a the tools/lift to do the work at home so im left with trying to find a indie place to do the work for me. I may try buying the PS you guys recommended and get the alternator rebuilt to save some moolah ^^ thanks for all the help guys :D

Mario, that's why you're here, and will probably be on here for a very long time....These guys know these cars better than the manufacturer does! I'll make a prediction here, from my own personal experience.... You'll suffer a bill from the dealership for something simple.....at which time you'll say to yourself "for that kind of money, I could have purchased all the tools required, and parts, spent 2 hours of time in the garage fixing it, and save myself a butt load of money." If you're on here, it's only a matter of time before you'll be at Sears buying tools. When I bought mine, I had a basic socket set. Now, I've got two lifts, air compressor, air tools "including a air hammer that nobody will let me use!" and a bunch of other tools...All this for less than the price of a dealership standard brake service. The thing about these cars, is that about 80% of the repairs needed are so simple and easy to do, that you can do them yourself.

[MarioC]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I checked with the dealer-since im still at work-and they said that the PS is still leaking, in fact the mechanic got a little defensive with me about all the questions I asked, so Im definately getting the car outta there.

I wish I was handy and had a the tools/lift to do the work at home so im left with trying to find a indie place to do the work for me. I may try buying the PS you guys recommended and get the alternator rebuilt to save some moolah ^^ thanks for all the help guys :D

Mario, that's why you're here, and will probably be on here for a very long time....These guys know these cars better than the manufacturer does! I'll make a prediction here, from my own personal experience.... You'll suffer a bill from the dealership for something simple.....at which time you'll say to yourself "for that kind of money, I could have purchased all the tools required, and parts, spent 2 hours of time in the garage fixing it, and save myself a butt load of money." If you're on here, it's only a matter of time before you'll be at Sears buying tools. When I bought mine, I had a basic socket set. Now, I've got two lifts, air compressor, air tools "including a air hammer that nobody will let me use!" and a bunch of other tools...All this for less than the price of a dealership standard brake service. The thing about these cars, is that about 80% of the repairs needed are so simple and easy to do, that you can do them yourself.

Yes I think I am headed in that direction as well-just bought a house to put the tools in-but in the short term in in a small bind.

My brother lives 2 hours away and has offered to hep me get the car running if I get the parts, Ive found the parts in chicago fairly cheap but the problem is getting the car there. If I charge-or ask the dealer to charge-the battery completely will I be able to make it off the battery running ignition for about 2 hours or will I sputter in the middle of a cornfield?

If I dont use any lights or ac or radio for that trip think I can make it for 2 hours?

Mario Cuomo

[Threadcutter]

My brother lives 2 hours away and has offered to hep me get the car running if I get the parts, Ive found the parts in chicago fairly cheap but the problem is getting the car there. If I charge-or ask the dealer to charge-the battery completely will I be able to make it off the battery running ignition for about 2 hours or will I sputter in the middle of a cornfield?

If I dont use any lights or ac or radio for that trip think I can make it for 2 hours?

Mario:

Uhhh, that's asking an awful lot. I think that at a minimum, you'll damage the battery to the point that it will no longer be useable. I also doubt you'd make it that far/long running just on the battery.

If you can get the alternator removed, try putting a new brush in it as SRK suggested. I've done it and it's not difficult.....just a lot of gruntwork. SRK is probably correct that it's just the brush that needs replacing, not the whole alternator. After brush replacement, have an auto parts store check the alternator for proper operation. Put the alternator back in & button it up.

Then, as long as the P/S system isn't "gushing" fluid all over the alternator, you could drive the 2 hours (probably) without any adverse effects. Once there, you and your brother can fix the P/S system.