monarch Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Thu Jun 1, 7:08 PM ET DETROIT, United States (AFP) - The Big Three US automakers reliance on trucks and sport utility vehicles (SUVs) to drive profits hit another pothole in May as consumers switched to more fuel-efficient passenger cars and cross-utility vehicles. Asian automakers -- which offer a wider range of more fuel-efficient vehicles -- continued to post sales and market share gains, now accounting for 40.2 percent of the massive US market, up from 36.3 percent a year ago, according to Autodata. The Big Three's market share fell to just 52.9 percent in May from 57.6 percent a year ago. GM posted Thursday a 16 percent decline in demand in May from a year ago, ending at 345,157 units. Passenger car demand was lower by 19 percent at 129,905 units, while truck sales were off by 13 percent to 215,252 units. "This was a challenging month for us," Paul Ballew, GM's director of global market and industry analysis, told reporters on a conference call. He said demand for some traditional truck-based SUVs, particularly the Chevrolet Trailblazer and GMC Envoy, were running at nearly half the pace of a year ago. The story was similar at Ford, where sales were off 1.9 percent from May 2005 at 278,546, after strong car sales were unable to offset a steep drop in demand for trucks and SUVs. Truck sales fell 6.6 percent to 170,298 units while passenger car sales climbed 6.4 percent to 108,248. German-US group DaimlerChrysler said its US sales fell eight percent in May to 212,882 units after at 14 percent drop in sales at the group's US-based Chrysler offset a 21 percent increase in sales at the Mercedes group. Meanwhile, most Japanese automakers posted robust US sales rises. Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. reported overall best-ever monthly sales of 235,708 vehicles, an increase of 12.3 percent over May 2005. Year-to-date sales rose 8.8 percent to 1,000,524. "The pinch at the pump has made small cars part of the big picture, right along with hybrids," Jim Lentz, TMS group vice president and Toyota division general manager, said in a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I didnt need an article to tell me that toyota makes good cars :P i have never owned an american car, and from the looks of it, i probably never will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 How about those tranny problems on the '07 Camry?? If you get a bad one, your tranny will fail in the first 500 miles according to all of the reports I read. That's going to hurt the initial quality rating, but I'm sure this little tid bit will slip between the cracks at Consumer Reports since any Toyota is unfaultable in their tests. If Toyota ever gets to 0 problems per 100 vehicles, I'll gladly join in the bashing. Until then, I'll keep my mouth shut. :whistles: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I'm sure it also had nothing to do with all the new models Toyota has out ;) Blake, Toyota recalled the 07 Camrys that had the issue, there weren't a lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Hahahaa....I bet according to C/R if the CEO of Toyota was named head of the UN, world peace would break-out and everything would run perfectly between all nations... I agree Blake, I subscribe to their magazine, and some of their findings really leave me scratching my head... How about those tranny problems on the '07 Camry?? If you get a bad one, your tranny will fail in the first 500 miles according to all of the reports I read. That's going to hurt the initial quality rating, but I'm sure this little tid bit will slip between the cracks at Consumer Reports since any Toyota is unfaultable in their tests. If Toyota ever gets to 0 problems per 100 vehicles, I'll gladly join in the bashing. Until then, I'll keep my mouth shut.:whistles: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I'm sure it also had nothing to do with all the new models Toyota has out ;) Blake, Toyota recalled the 07 Camrys that had the issue, there weren't a lot of them. I didn't know they recalled them; I read that they treat them on a case by case basis. I didn't see a recall on the NHTSA for the tranny, but there was one for airbags. That's beside the point, I get sick of hearing all of this crap about how many hundreds of times better Toyotas are than anything else with 4 wheels when they aren't as perfect as their repuataion holds. Let the folks at Ford make a bad tranny, and there would be a witch hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Hahahaa....I bet according to C/R if the CEO of Toyota was named head of the UN, world peace would break-out and everything would run perfectly between all nations... I agree Blake, I subscribe to their magazine, and some of their findings really leave me scratching my head... LOL so true! If anyone is interested in buying the annual auto issue, I can save you the $5 since they have a very simple method by which they judge every car, and that is if it's a Honda or Toyota, it's going to be the best car you've ever had. American, German, English cars? You'd be better off with public transit. LOL If they are feeling gracious at the time, they might throw out an average reliability rating to some of them.I don't know how one could take that magazine seriously. I tried reading some of their tests, but they contridict themselves from sentence to sentence, and I had to stop reading because I was getting more stupid with each sentence I finished. LOL I got a good laugh when I was reading their comments on the VW Passat. In the summary of the high points of the car, they mention fit and finish. Well, you start reading the article, and they bash the car because some of the dash pieces don't line up properly. Either they need to learn what fit and finish is or find some writers and editors who have finished grade school. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX in NC Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I fully agree with you that Consumer Reports is just a shadow of what it was 30 years ago. I no longer bother wasting my time with it and prefer to do my own research via the Net when planning a major purchase or project.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denslexusgx470 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I fully agree with you that Consumer Reports is just a shadow of what it was 30 years ago. I no longer bother wasting my time with it and prefer to do my own research via the Net when planning a major purchase or project.... i agree. we find out these things before Consumer Reports does. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Let the folks at Ford make a bad tranny, and there would be a witch hunt. Well, they've made plenty of them over the years, and they've never recalled any of them. Transmissions aren't Ford's strong suit. At least with Toyota they're willing to step up and fix the issues with a recall before they are required to by the NHTSA. I do obviously agree with you though, Toyota makes a better car than Ford no doubt, but Ford, GM, and Chrysler both have made huge strides in improving their product quality and reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 At least with Toyota they're willing to step up and fix the issues with a recall before they are required to by the NHTSA.Kinda like they did with the RX300 AWD?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 But the question is what % of RX owners actually do experience transmission failure, we still don't know. You've also got a vehicle way out of warranty and there are many instances of them covering replacement with little hassle even when the vehicles are WAY out of warranty, providing the owner can show the vehicle was properly maintained. They also supplimented the maintenance schedule. Ford doesn't do ANY of those things. I know, because I rode home from the hospital in a Ford and my family has had one ever since. I can name 5 Ford's off the top of my head that have serious transmission issues resulting in failures at 40-75k miles. I can't name 5 Toyotas. The 5 are: Gen II Taurus 90-94 Lincoln Continental 95-03 Lincoln Continental 91-94 Explorer 95-00 Explorer with OHV V6 And there are more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/1...13361460865679/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Transmissions aren't Ford's strong suit. what is ford's strong suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 But the question is what % of RX owners actually do experience transmission failure, we still don't know. Monarch, please step away from Steve's computer?? LOL j/k You've also got a vehicle way out of warranty and there are many instances of them covering replacement with little hassle even when the vehicles are WAY out of warranty, providing the owner can show the vehicle was properly maintained. They also supplimented the maintenance schedule. True it is out of warranty, but a tranny that lasts 70k-100k miles?? That's absurd for any vehicle especially one that costs north of $40,000. How happy would you be to pay $4k+/- for a new tranny in your ES since it's in that mileage range? What properly maintained??? According to the dipstick, you don't have to change the fluid under normal conditions. They supplimented the schedule because of the failures. There are better things to do for fun.I can name 5 Ford's off the top of my head that have serious transmission issues resulting in failures at 40-75k miles. I can't name 5 Toyotas.The 5 are: Gen II Taurus 90-94 Lincoln Continental 95-03 Lincoln Continental 91-94 Explorer 95-00 Explorer with OHV V6 I've never heard anything bad about the first gen Explorers (I have friends/relatives that own them with many, many miles, and no major repairs to speak of. As for the V6 failures that's the owner's fault for not opting for the wonderful 5.0 or 4.6 liter V8s. LOL), but I'm not looking for a debate here on who makes the best transmission. My point is that no car manufacture makes a perfect vehicle, and with that in mind, no one with good conscience (But, I do realize that this good conscience for Americans is not going to be here in a Lexus club.) should make fun of other manufactures. I hate to quote the bible since I'm not religous, but it's along the lines of the whole "he who has not sinned can cast the first stone." One might say that you have a better chance with a Toyota? Maybe so, but a chance is still a chance. I grew up in Ford cars and SUVs as well, and they were very reliable vehicles. I'm proud to say that my next vehicle is going to be a Ford product (well, a Lincoln.)! :P what is ford's strong suit? Trucks and cars, especially Panther cars (Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/T Car.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 The long term reliability and durability of American cars hasn't improved substantially in recent years, hence neither has resale value. The powertrain warranties are still short too. Conversely, the long term reliability and durability of the Asian car makers hasn't worsened substantially, hence neither has resale value. Asian powertrain warranties are still long too. Net effect of all this: American car makers have and will likely continue to lose market share for the forseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 And the Chinese and Koreans may be the next major powers in the Automotive industry as their market places expand in their own countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The long term reliability and durability of American cars hasn't improved substantially in recent years, hence neither has resale value. The powertrain warranties are still short too. Conversely, the long term reliability and durability of the Asian car makers hasn't worsened substantially, hence neither has resale value. Asian powertrain warranties are still long too. Net effect of all this: American car makers have and will likely continue to lose market share for the forseeable future. "powertrain warranties are still short too." Hmm, My lexus has a lesser warrenty(milage wise) then my old (1997) Ford had. That was 5 years or 100,000K for my ford . BAM! Resale- well it was $27K new and traded in 5 years later for $18K. Not a bad deal for a Ford. I know many had issue with Ford E40D. I never had an issue in my truck. My personal call is it will turn around like everyother thing. With all the outsoucing, there will not be anyone left in the USA to buy there cars and the China and Koreans will be all over them (lower price). Just a matter of time. Then it will come around again that. Many business will build them here since it will be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/press....asp?ID=2006082 Jag (aka Ford is not far behind).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 My personal call is it will turn around like every other thing.Since I'm 53, I've been hearing and reading about "turn around" predictions for decades that never materialized. Like in the late 1980's Tom & Ray Magliozzi - the auto repair shop owners who host the "Car Talk" radio talk show - predicted GM would return to its former glory in the 1990's. Bottom line is I think the only way I think the Japanese car makers could ever lose market share is to start giving us much less reliable and durable cars with ultra cheap interiors, paint, etc that would hurt the customer appeal and resale value of their vehicles. Or if the American car markers started giving us durable cars like they offered in the 1960's. But to this very day we never see any American car maker advertizing long term reliability and durability. The latest Ford commercial, for example, ephasizes "safety innovation" and the latest GM truck commercial "remotely controlled power folding seats". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 My personal call is it will turn around like every other thing.Since I'm 53, I've been hearing and reading about "turn around" predictions for decades that never materialized. Like in the late 1980's Tom & Ray Magliozzi - the auto repair shop owners who host the "Car Talk" radio talk show - predicted GM would return to its former glory in the 1990's. Bottom line is I think the only way I think the Japanese car makers could ever lose market share is to start giving us much less reliable and durable cars with ultra cheap interiors, paint, etc that would hurt the customer appeal and resale value of their vehicles. Or if the American car markers started giving us durable cars like they offered in the 1960's. But to this very day we never see any American car maker advertizing long term reliability and durability. The latest Ford commercial, for example, ephasizes "safety innovation" and the latest GM truck commercial "remotely controlled power folding seats". Yup and $$$ for $$$, both cars will last a long time. GM cars for example, alero, has had major issue but for $15K it will last a longtime. That priced against a lexus at $40K is a huge delta here. Again you could repair the GM car 10X to 15X and still be behind the lexus 8 ball. You can't compare the 1980 to today. More and more jobs etc are going over seas. I see it daily; it will compare back around. Sooner or later overseas people will want to live like the USA, it will be flatlined. I know what I see at work and the shipping overseas is slowly not all it is cracked up to be. Overseas makers jumped on the SUV ban wagon way after Ford concepted it. Then the minivan. They just take our designs and make them better. From an enginnering standpoint since I am one, creating one is a lot harder then reverse engineering one. China, Japanetc are growing so fast it is just a matter of time till their workers "want" more". Then it will go around full circle. Then again I am not too impressed with my ES300 paint. It has had issues 3 times since I had it (4 years); pretty good. That is 100% more times then my parents car and SUV (Ford ), and 50% my wifes MB. It all comes back to SPC. Sometimes you win and sometimes not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Transmissions aren't Ford's strong suit. what is ford's strong suit? Ford makes a lot of really attractive models, great trucks and SUVs. I've never heard anything bad about the first gen Explorers (I have friends/relatives that own them with many, many miles, and no major repairs to speak of. As for the V6 failures that's the owner's fault for not opting for the wonderful 5.0 or 4.6 liter V8s. LOL), but I'm not looking for a debate here on who makes the best transmission. Oh God, check out some Explorer forums. The A4LD Auto tranny in the V6 Explorer is NOTORIOUS, its a terribly weak transmission. It got somewhat better with the advent of the SOHC V6, but not much. My Explorer's had 3 transmissions in 160k miles. The V6 engine is rock solid, but the tranny is not. I'm getting whined at lol, more to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Okay, I'm back lol "powertrain warranties are still short too." Hmm, My lexus has a lesser warrenty(milage wise) then my old (1997) Ford had. That was 5 years or 100,000K for my ford . BAM! Resale- well it was $27K new and traded in 5 years later for $18K. Not a bad deal for a Ford. Ford never had a 5yr 100k bumper to bumper warranty. Ford's warranty is 3yr 36k. I had a 1997 Ford Explorer before the Lexus, the bumper to bumper warranty was 3 yrs 36k miles. Thats beside the point though, you can't compare a Ford and a Lexus it just doesn't make sense. Toyota is a much better comparison, and they also have a 3yr 36k warranty. Lincoln, a luxury marque, has a 5yr/50k warranty just like Lexus. Nevermind, I just realized you were talking about powertrain warranties, ignore me. The long term reliability and durability of American cars hasn't improved substantially in recent years I'd like to see you back that statement up with some data. True it is out of warranty, but a tranny that lasts 70k-100k miles?? That's absurd for any vehicle especially one that costs north of $40,000. LOL, I got your joke but its a fair point. We don't know what % of RX vehicles have this failure. Its obviously an issue, but you can't take the seemingly huge percentage of people that post here and assume its true of everybody. And I spent $40,000 on an Explorer thats had THREE transmissions in 160k miles, first failure was at 77k on a perfectly maintained tranny that never saw tow use. The Explorer is a vehicle with rampent well documented tranny failures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 And I spent $40,000 on an Explorer thats had THREE transmissions in 160k miles, first failure was at 77k on a perfectly maintained tranny that never saw tow use. The Explorer is a vehicle with rampent well documented tranny failures... Yeah well, at least they've had great tires.....oopps, did I just say that?.. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Oh God, check out some Explorer forums. The A4LD Auto tranny in the V6 Explorer is NOTORIOUS, its a terribly weak transmission. It got somewhat better with the advent of the SOHC V6, but not much. My Explorer's had 3 transmissions in 160k miles. The V6 engine is rock solid, but the tranny is not. I have browsed those boards, and that does absolutely nothing to the fact that I know a numerous people that drove those vehicles for 10+ years with no major powertrain (or other) failure. Some might be better than others (Just as I'm sure most ES owners haven't faced 8 or 9 warranty repairs totaling $10k before 50k miles.) Maybe that Explorer tranny is a byzantine POS (it can't be completely true based off of what I've seen.), but like I said earlier, I'm not here to discuss who makes a better automatic transmission. LOL, I got your joke but its a fair point. We don't know what % of RX vehicles have this failure. Its obviously an issue, but you can't take the seemingly huge percentage of people that post here and assume its true of everybody.I'm not assuming anything. I'm sure their are some that slip through the cracks and might make it to 150k miles with no failure. You said it's obviously an issue, that's good enough for me!And I spent $40,000 on an Explorer thats had THREE transmissions in 160k miles, first failure was at 77k on a perfectly maintained tranny that never saw tow use. The Explorer is a vehicle with rampent well documented tranny failures... $40k on an Explorer?? Why was it so much? http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/press....asp?ID=2006082Jag (aka Ford is not far behind).... I always love how Consumer Reports and JD Power find almost totally opposite data on car reliability. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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