Synthetic Oil

[rexmiami]

After 10,000 miles my MPG average is 26.732.

This morning I had my 400h 10.000 mile service. I replaced my motor oil with Castrol Syntec SAE5W-30 to see if this would raise my mpg. Since the weather turned colder (30-48 degrees), my averages are down between 1 and 2 mpg.

My service rep advised me to purchase the oil at an auto parts store which saved me about $25.

I will report back the results after a few tank fulls of 87 octane fuel.

[monarch]

Synthetic oils have been on the market for 30 years and in all that time no increase in fuel economy or engine life has been documented. That's why none of major oil companies (Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, etc) will come out a flatly claim their synthetics increase fuel economy or engine life.

Nevertheless, the placebo effect is powerful and some owners report fuel economy gains when using synthetic oil, power gains from K&N air filters, power gains from quad electrode spark plugs and so forth.

[Toysrme]

Synthetic oils kick !Removed!. They lubricate better, withstand more temperature & last longer. Increasing the life of parts needing lubrication & increasing power/economy to some point. Castrol's not my favorite. Not even close.

That being said, the weight of the oil has more directly to do with any power/economy gain than the type of oil.

Bobistheoilguy.com for such questions.

Reset your ECU.

[Vegas 400h]

After 10,000 miles my MPG average is 26.732.

This morning I had my 400h 10.000 mile service. I replaced my motor oil with Castrol Syntec SAE5W-30 to see if this would raise my mpg. Since the weather turned colder (30-48 degrees), my averages are down between 1 and 2 mpg.

My service rep advised me to purchase the oil at an auto parts store which saved me about $25.

I will report back the results after a few tank fulls of 87 octane fuel.

I am planning to do the same with my 400h over xmas. probably will go with Mobil 1. In Vegas, it has been in the low 40-50s, and my MPG has decreased also. The culprits may be longer engine warmup and maybe due to using the heated seat?? Don't really know that synthetic oil will increase gas mileage but they don't form carbon deposit. They also protect your engine from wear. I know that the majority if not all exotic sport cars use synthetic oil due to the protection it gives during high engine stress.

[Lexus_Jim]

Synthetic oils have been on the market for 30 years and in all that time no increase in fuel economy or engine life has been documented. That's why none of major oil companies (Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, etc) will come out a flatly claim their synthetics increase fuel economy or engine life.

Nevertheless, the placebo effect is powerful and some owners report fuel economy gains when using synthetic oil, power gains from K&N air filters, power gains from quad electrode spark plugs and so forth.

Do you really think BMW, who gives free service for four years to new cars, would use synthetics in all their M cars if they didn't see a benefit?

I wonder where you are getting your information. Sounds more like an opinion than a fact.

[monarch]

Do you really think BMW, who gives free service for four years to new cars, would use synthetics in all their M cars if they didn't see a benefit?

I wonder where you are getting your information. Sounds more like an opinion than a fact.

BMW and Lexus have different policies about the use of synthetic oil. BMW allows oil change intervals to be extended up to 1 year / 15,000 miles if certain synthetics are used:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/BMW.jpg

Corporate Lexus's policy, published on lexus.com is as follows: "Synthetic oil can be used at the first scheduled oil change. Please note that the use of synthetic oil does not extend the recommended oil change intervals. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend longer oil change intervals. Once synthetic oil is used, it is best not to switch back to petroleum-based oil."

[dcfish]

Do you really think BMW, who gives free service for four years to new cars, would use synthetics in all their M cars if they didn't see a benefit?

I wonder where you are getting your information. Sounds more like an opinion than a fact.

BMW and Lexus have different policies about the use of synthetic oil. BMW allows oil change intervals to be extended up to 1 year / 15,000 miles if certain synthetics are used:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/BMW.jpg

Corporate Lexus's policy, published on lexus.com is as follows: "Synthetic oil can be used at the first scheduled oil change. Please note that the use of synthetic oil does not extend the recommended oil change intervals. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend longer oil change intervals. Once synthetic oil is used, it is best not to switch back to petroleum-based oil."

monarch, Read my last post. :chairshot:

[bartkat]

Synthetic oils have been on the market for 30 years and in all that time no increase in fuel economy or engine life has been documented. That's why none of major oil companies (Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, etc) will come out a flatly claim their synthetics increase fuel economy or engine life.

Nevertheless, the placebo effect is powerful and some owners report fuel economy gains when using synthetic oil, power gains from K&N air filters, power gains from quad electrode spark plugs and so forth.

Do you really think BMW, who gives free service for four years to new cars, would use synthetics in all their M cars if they didn't see a benefit?

I wonder where you are getting your information. Sounds more like an opinion than a fact.

I believe the issue was improved gas mileage. Does BMW claim that?

[Lexus_Jim]

Synthetic oils have been on the market for 30 years and in all that time no increase in fuel economy or engine life has been documented. That's why none of major oil companies (Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, etc) will come out a flatly claim their synthetics increase fuel economy or engine life.

Nevertheless, the placebo effect is powerful and some owners report fuel economy gains when using synthetic oil, power gains from K&N air filters, power gains from quad electrode spark plugs and so forth.

Do you really think BMW, who gives free service for four years to new cars, would use synthetics in all their M cars if they didn't see a benefit?

I wonder where you are getting your information. Sounds more like an opinion than a fact.

I believe the issue was improved gas mileage. Does BMW claim that?

I never have been too concerned about gas mileage. I was responding to the comment about engine life. Since BMW covers their high performance cars with a four year warranty and free service and repair of everything in the car, they have found that synthetic oil will enable their engines to survive through that period and therefore use of any other oil can (and does) void the engine warranty. Not all synthetics are acceptable. They have to meet some specific anti wear certifications to qualify. If you are interested in learning more go to http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/index.php and do a search on "oil".

[monarch]

I was responding to the comment about engine life.

Since the mid-1970's Toyota has designed its engines to be capable of surviving 400,000 - 700,000 miles on conventional oil, including the SD and SE grade oils which were the only ones available back then:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mast.../leowrfield.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/74h.jpg

Over the years, thousands of Toyota owners have tried synthetic oils too, but to my knowledge, the life of their engines has not exceeded the 600,000 - 700,000 mile maximum that conventional oil users have achieved.

[Lexus_Jim]

I was responding to the comment about engine life.

Since the mid-1970's Toyota has designed its engines to be capable of surviving 400,000 - 700,000 miles on conventional oil, including the SD and SE grade oils which were the only ones available back then:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mast.../leowrfield.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/74h.jpg

Over the years, thousands of Toyota owners have tried synthetic oils too, but to my knowledge, the life of their engines has not exceeded the 600,000 - 700,000 mile maximum that conventional oil users have achieved.

We certainly must have a different perspective on what we want from our automobiles. I don't think that I have ever owned a car with more than 60,000 miles on it and that was likely when I was much younger. Exceeding that level is something I am extremely unlikely to ever experience and frankly I have no interest in trying.

As far as your high mileage examples, I think it is safe to say that these Toyotas did not have high performance engines in them. While it may be that the few examples that you are aware of did not appear to benefit from Synthetic Oil, sweeping statements about Synthetic Oil having no value is a bit of a stretch. If you want to get some more data points, do some web searches on Google about synthetic oil and I believe you will find plenty of evidence that they have significant benefits over regular lubricants, especially in high performance engines.

[monarch]

As far as your high mileage examples, I think it is safe to say that these Toyotas did not have high performance engines in them. While it may be that the few examples that you are aware of did not appear to benefit from Synthetic Oil, sweeping statements about Synthetic Oil having no value is a bit of a stretch. If you want to get some more data points, do some web searches on Google about synthetic oil and I believe you will find plenty of evidence that they have significant benefits over regular lubricants, especially in high performance engines.

Your SC430 V8 engine and your RX400h V6 engine are not high performance engine either. Both engines came filled from the factory with dinosaur oil and both engines have a track record of lasting over 300,000 miles on dinosaur oil.

It is true that several automakers, including Toyota, require the use of synthetic oil in certain high performance engines because the oil temperatures run higher than on conventional engines. Example: the Toyota Supra Turbo model comes from the factory filled with synthetic oil.

[Toysrme]

Synthetic rules all comers.

Just look at R/C engines that are extremely hi-po methanol engine's turning 10-15-20-35,000 rpm of highly advanced construction with 15-25:1 CR's. Dino, and caster oils simply don't provide the lubrication even basic synthetic oils do. Engine life in both ABC, and 4-stroke engines is much longer on synthetic anything than dino, or caster based oils. Engine performance is also raised.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Toysrme

[katzjamr]

the rx 400h also comes with a synthetic blend in the engine from the factory as well as full synthetic trans oil.

[monarch]

the rx 400h also comes with a synthetic blend in the engine from the factory as well as full synthetic trans oil.

Toyota's website says

http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota....?p_sid=rlB32CTh

"All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with petroleum-based engine oil." (Which means I was wrong in my post above when I said the Supra Turbo model comes from the factory with synthetic oil) Your R400h owners manual should also say: "Toyota Genuine Motor oil is filled in your Lexus vehicle."

Toyota dealers in my area sell genuine Toyota motor oil for only $1.79 a quart - too inexpensive to be a synthetic blend. Likewise Toyota dealers sell genuine Toyota Type T-IV and Dexron automatic transmission fluids in 1 quart bottles for only $3.20 - $4.00 a quart which is also too inexpensive to be full synthetic.

[mburnickas]

Since the mid-1970's Toyota has designed its engines to be capable of surviving 400,000 - 700,000 miles on conventional oil, including the SD and SE grade oils which were the only ones available back then:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mast.../leowrfield.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/74h.jpg

Over the years, thousands of Toyota owners have tried synthetic oils too, but to my knowledge, the life of their engines has not exceeded the 600,000 - 700,000 mile maximum that conventional oil users have achieved.

Gee all this from Saber, Vtec or monarch...

this old post is for ya

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...t=000243#000005

Edited January 5, 2006 by mburnickas

[steviej]

I can't believe this. Once again the conventional vs synthetic oil debate rears its ugly head again.

I think over the years and across the forums it is agreed that there are strong viewpoints for both sides of the usage spectrum. This website definately has members devoted to one side or the other. It has been asked time and time again that we refrain from these discussions because they just lead to the same agruements and debates as well as resurfaces hard feelings towards members that don't share the same viewpoint or members that continuous bombard this forum with the same old links and statements form the manufacturers.

People, it is time to move on.

steviej

Edited January 5, 2006 by steviej

[SKperformance]

closed

I am going to make a perfectly clear statement for all members.

If you see or read an oil thread do not respond.

This was a normal thread until monarch had to through his 2 cents in for whatever reason. If you are interested in seeing the results of an syn oil in a hybrid which has not been documented then this is a great thread to watch.

No one asked for your opinion on oil........period.

I don't believe in closing threads because they get off topic but certain members like to play all day with who is right. No one cares or even reads it anymore after the first post.

After my post anyone feeling they have to weight in on the oil debate and post in this thread will be welcomed to a 2 week vacation in the park ( otherwise known as a suspension).

I hope this is wonderfully clear.

There is 1 post to talk about oil and this is not it.

So don't degrade the value of this post and member by debating in there thread.