Solving The Valve Cover Gaskets - Permanently

[Toysrme]

This is a "your thoughts" thread.

(For the remainder of the thread VCG - Valve Cover Gasket. RVCG - Specifying the REAR Valve Cover Gasket, FVCG - You are a moron if you need this definition)

It's obvious Toyota's implementation for the v6's doesn't work. Blame whatever you want, but there is no arguing the fact that it simply does not work. Worse, nearly every engine has a VCG leaking to some extinct, almost EVER engine will have the RVCG leaking over time.

IMHO it's from a culmination of two things:

1) I don't like the groove style VCG. The flat engine's use corker, rubber"ish", or rubber/steel core gaskets & have less problems. Not only that, but it is advantageous in that if it is ever replaced (for any reason) you simply use a tube of gasket maker & the seal is nearly indefinite. When applied correctly, they won't leak until you break the seal!

2) Improper valve cover gasket bolt torque. Even tho the rubber gasket provides some tension on the cylinder head bolts, the spec is 4.3-5.75ft-lb. They easily get loose, or are extremely over tightened when repaired.

3) 1 & 2 are compounded by the huge rearward angle the v6's are tilted at.

So I'm sick of it. Sick of hearing about it. Sick of most of us considering it a "routine maintenance" item that should be replaced every time someone is going near them. "Oh well you're getting X done, Have them do the VCG's before they start to leak!" etc.

Here's how I think we deal with it once & solve it for the last damn time.

Supply list:

Ultra Black RTV. RTV is *the* gasket "brand" of choice by everyone. Ultra Black is a premium line, and Permatex's most oil resistant RTV gasket. Even better. It is apply & go. (Non-premium RTV's need time to setup when mounted & some need to be re-torqued.) It could take 2 tubes. I used 1.

Thread Locker (Medium - Loc-tite & Permatex Blue)

M7-1 Tap

Acetone, Paper towels, Q-tips. (Ya, ya Alcohol works, Acetone just eats oil so much faster tho! Ventilated area for both)

Scraper (or something with a flat edge you can level with)

1) Clean the gasket mating surfaces with Acetone. I find you can push paper towels through the groove, but a few Q-tips make very short work of it & you can be sure you've cleaned it thoroughly.

2) Completely fill the groove with RTV & scrape it flat so that it's a flush surface.

3) Run your tap down the threads of the valve cover bolt holes. This will clean the threads up.

4) (After the RTV has cured - 24 hours) Apply your "normal" 1/4" bead of RTV as a normal application.

5) (IMMEDIATELY) Put valve cover on & bolt it down. Since we're no longer using a "light pressure to seal" gasket. Torque the valve covers down to say 18-20ft-lb.

Using online calculators: The stock bolt & hole threads have a Recommended Torque of 15.2 ft-lb & Maximum Torque of 20.2 ft-lb (Not freaking 4-5ft-lb!?)

I don't think it would be wise to drill & tap for a larger size, tho someone could. It'd be hard to drill large enough to have good threads, without having some huge bolt running down it. (I just don't think there is any reason for like an M10. Those would hold 40-50ft-lb! That's above the head gasket range!)

Anywho... That's what I did.

[Toysrme]

If someone had some money, you could also JB Weld the groove full. JB Weld is awesome on Aluminum. They expand at virtually the same rate @ the same temperature.

Or just weld it full...

[monarch]

I not sure I understand what valve cover oil leakage problems exist to begin with.

Like do V6 valve cover gaskets ever develope significant leaks before the first timing belt change? Answer: Not to my knowledge. My '91 Lexus V8 uses the same kind of grooved valve cover gasket and there are still no leaks after 15 years (timing belt has never been replaced yet).

And do V6 valve cover gaskets ever develope significant leaks inbetween timing belt changes if the technician replaces the valve cover gasket at each change, uses dabs of the genuine Toyota RTV sealer at certain spots also specified in that manual and then finishes the job by correctly torquing the valve cover bolts? Answer: Not to my knowledge.

[Toysrme]

I not sure I understand what valve cover oil leakage problems exist to begin with.

Ofcorse you wouldn't.

First three paragraphs

Like do V6 valve cover gaskets ever develope significant leaks before the first timing belt change? Answer: Not to my knowledge.

Then apparently your knowledge doesn't extend to the hundreds of posts between the big 5.

My '91 Lexus V8

Lexus Owners Club (USA) Forums > Lexus Owners Club > Lexus ES250/ ES300 / ES330 Forums

That's fine, but it's also not a transversly mounted engine with hundreds of instances of premature ejaculation.

And do V6 valve cover gaskets ever develope significant leaks inbetween timing belt changes if the technician replaces the valve cover gasket at each change

Again Not only YES, but the valve cover gaskets ARE NOT not a scheduled item.

There is no reason for the valve covers to ever be taken off the engines in the first place.

The closest "schedule" for them is at 250,000 miles when the first valve adjustment should be made. You can be sure as hell that the vast majority won't get close to 250,000 miles before they start leaking.

Look at your 200,000+ v6 Camry/ES's. Nearly every one has big oil stains somewhere around the heads from oil leaking. That's not normal. The only oil loss should be through the breather systems & ring blow-by.

Ask why worry about a stain? Because it's an oil leak... A stain one day dripping on the ground is a drip on a y-pipe the next day smoking like crazy. The difference is an inch - the concept is the same.

uses dabs of the genuine Toyota RTV

Yes, I had established the fact that Toyota uses a cheap silicon based RTV knock-off.

Answer: Not to my knowledge.

Again, your knowledge has been proven limited on this matter monarch. Dude... There are hundreds of threads in reference to the valve cover gaskets being a problem on the big 5 forums (for this engine/platform). (TN, LOC, CL, SG, AF)

There really is no legitimate argument that can be made saying the valve cover gaskets are not a problem at some level, when all the evidence available says otherwise.

Let's discuss possible permanent solutions, or atleast solutions better than "take it apart, clean it, put a new one in, bolt it down too loose & repeate in a few years".

[monarch]

There is no reason for the valve covers to ever be taken off the engines in the first place. The closest "schedule" for them is at 250,000 miles when the first valve adjustment should be made. You can be sure as hell that the vast majority won't get close to 250,000 miles before they start leaking.

←

The owners manuals of the early and mid 90's ES250's and ES300's specifies manually inspecting valve clearances every 6 years or 60,000 miles which requires valve cover removal, which in turn requires replacement of the valve cover gaskets, which in turn requires the use of the genuine Toyota valve cover gaskets and RTV sealer to ensure a leak free seal that will last another 6 years or 60,000 miles.

[jweiss]

Toysrme,

There are several ways for you to communicate the important information you impart, but insulting others in a condescending manner is not what we've come to expect on this site.

I'd like to hear something from those good people who monitor our site.

[dcfish]

Toysrme,

There are several ways for you to communicate the important information you impart, but insulting others in a condescending manner is not what we've come to expect on this site.

I'd like to hear something from those good people who monitor our site.

←

Long timer chiming in here, jweiss, You will get to know other members here and there posting habits after you have been here a while, Toys is by no means being condisending/insulting in his posts. There are just some members that have to be handled a little different than others and for good reason. Now I'm not a mod here [ I do mod on a couple of other forums ] And what you posted is more condisending/insulting to toys than he is perceived to be in his posts to others, Sure expectations are high on this site and that should have been taken into consideration before you posted. After all your post has nothing to do with the original topic. Anywho I didn't mean to highjack this thread but as a long standing member I will stand up for what I see as proper on these boards. On with the original topic.

And, No I am not going to get into who registered first, It is participation/contribution that counts. ;)

[lenore]

By the way do not use loctite red, Blue as stated is good. One other thing is when the valve cover is off, hold a straight edge to the bottom and look for warpage. the gasket will conform to some irregularities but not a really warped cover. This can cause leakage by not allowing the gasket to do its job with proper pressure against the cylinder head. I want to empasize do not use red loctite it will ruin your day if you want to remove that fastener. Aftermarket RTV's are definetly great.

[ArmyofOne]

Hmm, lets see, are the valve cover gaskets a problem?

with 130K, my 2vz leaked a quart of oil EVERY DAY. at 140K, right before they were fixed, i was filling up the crankcase every 3 days, it got to the point that i didnt even bother changing the oil, just the filter, cause thre oil was ALWAYS new.

so the answer here is a RESOUNDING..........

YES!

Oh, BTW, the valve cover gaskets on my car were also done at 100,000 miles by a lexus dealer, which means that they are definately a problem.

[sunman]

I have had to replace both valve cover gaskets in both of my ES cars.

[mburnickas]

Toysrme

I bought some of their Red -High temp RTV since. Other then the color and the red one I got is a higher temp, what is better? jsut wonder since I compared the two and both are OEM, for oil pans, valve covers etc. Any help since you are the expert here.

here is a link to the stuff I got today.

http://www.permatex.com/products/industria...licone%20Gasket

[Toysrme]

Red is pretty much the classic. I made my oil & transmission pan gaskets out of it. I don't like it because after applying, like 10-15 min later you have to re-torque everything evenly.

Ultra black is their most oil resistant & you don't need to re-torque it. It also has a slightly higher max temp, but that's out of the range it would ever see on an engine where you have any kind of non-metal seal so the temp doesn't really matter.

Edited January 1, 2006 by Toysrme

[mburnickas]

Red is pretty much the classic. I made my oil & valve cover gaskets out of it. I don't like it because after applying, like 10-15 min later you have to re-torque everything evenly.

Ultra black is their most oil resistant & you don't need to re-torque it. It also has a slightly higher max temp, but that's out of the range it would ever see on an engine where you have any kind of non-metal seal so the temp doesn't really matter.

OK, cool I will stop by the walfart and look. I know they had a black kind but I did not remeber which ones with the 90000% sales there are having and my wife/kid looking like "can we leave now".....

i really want to remove the valve cover (front only) and see how good or bad it looks. I will take some pix and post back.

Thank again.....You really know your %$&%!

Edited January 1, 2006 by mburnickas

[jjewell]

Red is pretty much the classic. I made my oil & valve cover gaskets out of it. I don't like it because after applying, like 10-15 min later you have to re-torque everything evenly.

Ultra black is their most oil resistant & you don't need to re-torque it. It also has a slightly higher max temp, but that's out of the range it would ever see on an engine where you have any kind of non-metal seal so the temp doesn't really matter.

OK, cool I will stop by the walfart and look. I know they had a black kind but I did not remeber which ones with the 90000% sales there are having and my wife/kid looking like "can we leave now".....

i really want to remove the valve cover (front only) and see how good or bad it looks. I will take some pix and post back.

Thank again.....You really know your %$&%!

Hey Toys! I got all the supplies for your "fix". Ya got any "tricks" for the cam seals? I snugged down the cover nuts , cleaned em up & so far no leaks, but I'm sure they will eventually & I'm prepared. The front rubber cam seal is weeping a little though.

[Toysrme]

Not really for the cam seals. When i changed them & the distributor seal on ym engine I haven't had any leaks since.

On my distributor I did run just a little ring of rtv around it tho to hold it in place really tight. It wasn't dripping, but I could see a tiny bit of oil stain forming after a couple of weeks when i first installed it. That's most likely due to the o-ring on the distributor being old tho.

[justin97]

so the black is better...hum on a scale of 1 to 10 how hard is the rear one to fix.

[Toysrme]

Eh mine is easy. Takes like 10 min. The biggest thing if you don't have lots of "proven" mechanical ability, or you've never done it before is just to take your time.

Physically, nothing about the entire process is hard.

I like a Physical difficulty & an Annoying/aggrivating difficulty.

It's aggrivating because you have to take stuff off & like leeeeean in the engine bay to get those 4 rear vc bolts. A flexi-shaft is a HUGE help to do the back valve covers. But it's not actually complex, or hard. It's just do it all one step at a time & don't take off more than you have too.

I'd say it would take a first timer like an hour or two to actually handle the work with some directions (manual) and basic hand tools.

Edited January 3, 2006 by Toysrme

[justin97]

Eh mine is easy. Takes like 10 min. The biggest thing if you don't have lots of "proven" mechanical ability, or you've never done it before is just to take your time.

Physically, nothing about the entire process is hard.

I like a Physical difficulty & an Annoying/aggrivating difficulty.

It's aggrivating because you have to take stuff off & like leeeeean in the engine bay to get those 4 rear vc bolts. A flexi-shaft is a HUGE help to do the back valve covers. But it's not actually complex, or hard. It's just do it all one step at a time & don't take off more than you have too.

I'd say it would take a first timer like an hour or two to actually handle the work with some directions (manual) and basic hand tools.

still debating..i could clean my iacv (the idle thing) will pick a a new flexi shaft.. i did think it was that hard, just checkin if there was any hidden stuff.

[Toysrme]

Na, you gotta take off the EGR pipe & the brace that you lift the engine out with. That's all i remember off-hand AFA dissassembly to get the upper intake air chamber off.

Edited January 3, 2006 by Toysrme