Timing Belt/water Pump Replacement

[jc19907]

I have a 99LS with 87K on it. Just seeing when folks have changed out the timing belt and water pump. After a recent inquiry to my Lexus dealer, they told me that 100K was the new recommendation for my car...? My manual states 90K. Anyway, I've done about 25K worth of mostly highway driving in the last 18 months that I've owned the car. A few enthusiasists have told me they've gone past the dealer reccomendation of 90K.

Wait til 100K, 110K or more? Don't wait, do it now? 2cents?

THX

[ArmyofOne]

I have a 99LS with 87K on it.  Just seeing when folks have changed out the timing belt and water pump.  After a recent inquiry to my Lexus dealer, they told me that  100K was the new recommendation for my car...?  My manual states 90K.  Anyway, I've done about 25K worth of mostly highway driving in the last 18 months that I've owned the car.  A few enthusiasists have told me they've gone past the dealer reccomendation of 90K.

Wait til 100K, 110K or more?  Don't wait, do it now? 2cents?

THX

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Dont wait, if that belt goes, since yoru engine has VVT-i, your engine will be toast. Mrs. Valve will kiss Mr. Piston...bad...very bad. possible bent valves, I have even seen a cracked crankshaft on a mustang mecause a chain broke.

you have an interference engine, s i woudl do it on schedule.

I have a non interference on my ford, so i will run her till she breaks.

[wandawoods]

you definately don't want to fool around inteference engine such VVTi.

timing chain on my old Merc 420SEL that I used to own broke prematurely, it ended up costing me over $4k to get the valves job done and the chain replaced.

[ZINFANDEL22]

I have a 99LS with 87K on it.  Just seeing when folks have changed out the timing belt and water pump.  After a recent inquiry to my Lexus dealer, they told me that  100K was the new recommendation for my car...?  My manual states 90K.  Anyway, I've done about 25K worth of mostly highway driving in the last 18 months that I've owned the car.  A few enthusiasists have told me they've gone past the dealer reccomendation of 90K.

Wait til 100K, 110K or more?  Don't wait, do it now? 2cents?

THX

←

Dont wait, if that belt goes, since yoru engine has VVT-i, your engine will be toast. Mrs. Valve will kiss Mr. Piston...bad...very bad. possible bent valves, I have even seen a cracked crankshaft on a mustang mecause a chain broke.

you have an interference engine, s i woudl do it on schedule.

I have a non interference on my ford, so i will run her till she breaks.

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at what point did they change over so if the tb goes it wouldnt ruin the engine? personaly I drive an es 300.

[prix]

same question for a '94 ls400. do i have an interference engine? same disastrous consequences if the tb breaks? what about water pump? how critical? thanks.

I have a 99LS with 87K on it.  Just seeing when folks have changed out the timing belt and water pump.  After a recent inquiry to my Lexus dealer, they told me that  100K was the new recommendation for my car...?  My manual states 90K.  Anyway, I've done about 25K worth of mostly highway driving in the last 18 months that I've owned the car.  A few enthusiasists have told me they've gone past the dealer reccomendation of 90K.

Wait til 100K, 110K or more?  Don't wait, do it now? 2cents?

THX

←

Dont wait, if that belt goes, since yoru engine has VVT-i, your engine will be toast. Mrs. Valve will kiss Mr. Piston...bad...very bad. possible bent valves, I have even seen a cracked crankshaft on a mustang mecause a chain broke.

you have an interference engine, s i woudl do it on schedule.

I have a non interference on my ford, so i will run her till she breaks.

←

at what point did they change over so if the tb goes it wouldnt ruin the engine? personaly I drive an es 300.

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[wandawoods]

90~97 LS400: non-interference

98+ LS400: VVTi interference

[ArmyofOne]

90~97 LS400: non-interference

98+ LS400: VVTi interference

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You are correct.

as for the ES300:

1990-1991 ES250, Non interference

1992-94 ES300, Non interference,

95-up ES series, Interference.

[monarch]

The VVTi engines are equipped with an extra strong, extra reinforced timing belt. That's why Toyota extended the timing belt replacement interval from 60K to 90K for the VVti engines. So just as many relaxed highway drivers have found the non VVti engines can be safely driven 100 - 120K miles before replacing the timing belt, VVti owners who are easy going highway drivers should be able to drive closer to 150K before replacing the timing belt.

Hurried, pedal to the metal type drivers, ought to change the timing belt according to the factory schedule since that kind of driving is extra stressful to the belt mechanism.

The water pump will normally last at least 150K if the owner is careful to use the factory original coolant mixture (50% distilled water & 50% Toyota Long Life antifreeze) at replacement time.

[ArmyofOne]

The VVTi engines are equipped with an extra strong, extra reinforced timing belt.  That's why Toyota extended the timing belt replacement interval from 60K to 90K for  the VVti engines.  So just as many relaxed highway drivers have found the non VVti engines can be safely driven 100 - 120K miles before replacing the timing belt, VVti owners who are easy going highway drivers should be able to drive closer to 150K before replacing the timing belt. 

Hurried, pedal to the metal type drivers, ought to change the timing belt according to the factory schedule since that kind of driving is extra stressful to the belt mechanism.

The water pump will normally last at least 150K if the owner is careful to use the factory original coolant mixture (50% distilled water & 50% Toyota Long Life antifreeze) at replacement time.

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i dont understand you dude, one minute you are preaching about "stick to your intervals, follow the manual and use factory replacement OEM parts" the next you are spouting "I reccomend extending the interval well beyond what it was inteded to be"

pick a side please.

to the poster of this thread:

Having worked on cars nearly all of my 21 years, i can assure you, i have seen what happens when timing belts and timing chains break. it is nto pretty if the motor is interference. AS A MECHANIC i do not reccomend extending your interval much beyond 10K extra. jsut because you never know. the belt may look alright, but it may be cracked or dryrotted inside, may have a weak spot thats waiting to show itself. on these engines its better a $650-%800 timing belt job thean a $4,000 (or more) engine rebuild. as i said, i have seen this stuff happen, its nto pretty.

I saw a 3.8L V6 (GM) timing chain break in a grand prix. the pistons came up and bent the valves, which punched holes in the pistons. then having metal shavings on the oil scored the crankshaft, and the cylinder walls. the engine was RUINED.

[mehullica]

Just replaced a t/belt on my friends 1998 gs400 with 121,321 miles. Belt was in real bad shape. Cracked everywhere. The belt was beginning to split where the cogged and smooth layers are joined.

[blake918]

as for the ES300:

1990-1991 ES250, Non interference

1992-94 ES300, Non interference,

95-up ES series, Interference.

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95-98s are non interference too. ;) The 3vzfe was only in the 92-93. '94-'03 ESs have the 1MZ-FE, and I believe VVTi came in '99. Steviej has a clever way of remembering which engines are interference and which ones aren't, "the "i" in "VVTi" stands for interference!" B)

[1990LS400]

The VVTi engines are equipped with an extra strong, extra reinforced timing belt.  That's why Toyota extended the timing belt replacement interval from 60K to 90K for  the VVti engines.

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The recommended timing belt change interval on the gen 1 (1990) LS I had for 13 years was also 90K - not 60K. I replaced it (and the water pump) twice during the 183K miles I owned it.

I think Blake is right on the ES. I have been told that our 98 Camry has the same V6 engine as the 98 ES and its engine is non-interference.

[monarch]

i dont understand you dude, one minute you are preaching about "stick to your intervals, follow the manual and use factory replacement OEM parts" the next you are spouting "I reccomend extending the interval well beyond what it was inteded to be"

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The Owner FAQ at Toyota.com, explains Toyotas position on timing belt replacement. Toyota says it's position on timing belt replacement is the same as with other engine drive belts: inspect at the first 60,000 miles (90,000 miles for the VVTi models) and every 15,000 miles thereafter. Toyota then goes on to say that since the labor to inspect the timing belt is considerable, some owners may wish to go ahead and replace the timing belt anyway every 60,000 miles.

As I said in my earlier post, experience teaches us (those of us with Toyota specific experience) that Toyota timing belts in Toyota engines can last as long as 150,000 - 200,000 miles if the driver is a relaxed highway driver type and can be as short as 60,000 - 90,000 miles if the driver is the opposite. GS400 owners, for example, are likely to be hurried, aggressive drivers so its no surprise mehullica told us today that he worked on a GS400 engine that had a belt in bad shape at 121,321 miles.

[jc19907]

i dont understand you dude, one minute you are preaching about "stick to your intervals, follow the manual and use factory replacement OEM parts" the next you are spouting "I reccomend extending the interval well beyond what it was inteded to be"

←

The Owner FAQ at Toyota.com, explains Toyotas position on timing belt replacement. Toyota says it's position on timing belt replacement is the same as with other engine drive belts: inspect at the first 60,000 miles (90,000 miles for the VVTi models) and every 15,000 miles thereafter. Toyota then goes on to say that since the labor to inspect the timing belt is considerable, some owners may wish to go ahead and replace the timing belt anyway every 60,000 miles.

As I said in my earlier post, experience teaches us (those of us with Toyota specific experience) that Toyota timing belts in Toyota engines can last as long as 150,000 - 200,000 miles if the driver is a relaxed highway driver type and can be as short as 60,000 - 90,000 miles if the driver is the opposite. GS400 owners, for example, are likely to be hurried, aggressive drivers so its no surprise mehullica told us today that he worked on a GS400 engine that had a belt in bad shape at 121,321 miles.

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Folks,

All of this is great info. I'm a home wrench turner and usually will replace this kind of stuff whenever I get a new car. The LS is a high end car with higher costs, so I'm taking a bit of time to research the options. This is a job that I'll have the dealer do and I'll probably have it done @ 100K.

I also saw the alternator down in there too - is that something I need to replace too? Or can you get to that from underneath the splash guard and replace it separate from the TB and WP? THX!

[monarch]

If you had an American car then you'd need to be concerned about the alternator going out at between 75,000 - 125,000 miles, but Toyota alternators are generally good for at least 150,000 miles and even at that mileage usually only the $25 brush holder assembly needs to be replaced.

I'm not sure about the '99 models, but on the '90-'97 models the alternator is accessed from underneath the car after removing the air intake duct to the throttle body, the serpentine drive belt, the coolant, the radiator and disconnecting the transmission cooler hoses.

[jc19907]

If you had an American car then you'd need to be concerned about the alternator going out at between 75,000 - 125,000 miles, but Toyota alternators are generally good for at least 150,000 miles and even at that mileage usually only the $25 brush holder assembly needs to be replaced.

I'm not sure about the '99 models, but on the '90-'97 models the alternator is accessed from underneath the car after removing the air intake duct to the throttle body, the serpentine drive belt, the coolant, the radiator and disconnecting the transmission cooler hoses.

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Thanks Monarch,

Yeah, I'll probably bust my knuckles and try and replace it without removing the radiator. ;)

[ArmyofOne]

If you had an American car then you'd need to be concerned about the alternator going out at between 75,000 - 125,000 miles,

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:chairshot: :chairshot: Im not even going to get into this with you, its a never ending battle...

<_<

JC, i hope you got the info you needed. Let me know if i can be of any more help.

[90LS400Lexus]

Its funny about timing belts. Some last a very long time. My dad has a 88' Nissan 4WD truck, with the 3.0L V6 engine. He bought it in 1999 from my uncle, who bought it brand new. He put 210K miles on it and NEVER changed the timing belt. :whistles: My dad asked him after he bought it when he last changed the belt and he said never. Dad was a bit suprised that it had 210K on the original belt.

Needless to say, he immedietly replaced the belt. It was very thin indeed! <_<

There was a lot of "shavings" of the belt on the bottom of the cover, where it had worn over the years. That was one tough belt.

I would say the belt on the 99+ LS400 would go well over 90K, but I would say this is a "safety point" just to be sure the belt does not snap. About how much does it cost on average to get a belt changed on a LS400?

I have a 1985 Mercedes 380SE, with 263,800 that has a timing chain, which is a "double row chain". They rarely break, but it is the tensioner or upper rails that can break. You can tell when the chain or tensioner is bad, because you can hear it slapping in the chain cover. If the chain or the tensioner breaks, then the engine is destroyed, unless you want to pay the $3500 repair. It bends the valves, etc, because it is a interference engine. If the upper rails or guides break, you still have a chance. However, if parts of them gets caught in the chain, it could throw it off and damage the engine that way too. I am going to have my chain replaced at 300K, (it has 263K now) because it was last changed at 200K if it was replaced by the original owner when it was supposed to be. Probably was, because the engine is very quiet. I just hope that the rail or guide never breaks, or if it does, that it will not fall into the clutches of the chains. The Mercedes tech said not to worry about it unless the chain was rattling.

@ any rate, I would have the belt changed no later than 100-110K.

[lenore]

Its funny about timing belts.  Some last a very long time.  My dad has a 88' Nissan 4WD truck, with the 3.0L V6 engine.  He bought it in 1999 from my uncle, who bought it brand new.  He put 210K miles on it and NEVER changed the timing belt.  :whistles:  My dad asked him after he bought it when he last changed the belt and he said never.  Dad was a bit suprised that it had 210K on the original belt. 

Needless to say, he immedietly replaced the belt.  It was very thin indeed!  <_<

There was a lot of "shavings" of the belt on the bottom of the cover, where it had worn over the years.  That was one tough belt.

I would say the belt on the 99+ LS400 would go well over 90K, but I would say this is a "safety point" just to be sure the belt does not snap.  About how much does it cost on average to get a belt changed on a LS400?

I have a 1985 Mercedes 380SE, with 263,800 that has a timing chain, which is a "double row chain".  They rarely break, but it is the tensioner or upper rails that can break.  You can tell when the chain or tensioner is bad, because you can hear it slapping in the chain cover.  If the chain or the tensioner breaks, then the engine is destroyed, unless you want to pay the $3500 repair.  It bends the valves, etc, because it is a interference engine.  If the upper rails or guides break, you still have a chance.  However, if parts of them gets caught in the chain, it could throw it off and damage the engine that way too.  I am going to have my chain replaced at 300K, (it has 263K now) because it was last changed at 200K if it was replaced by the original owner when it was supposed to be.  Probably was, because the engine is very quiet.  I just hope that the rail or guide never breaks, or if it does, that it will not fall into the clutches of the chains.    The Mercedes tech said not to worry about it unless the chain was rattling.

@ any rate, I would have the belt changed no later than 100-110K.

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The chain can be replaced without removing the front cover, a mercedes mechanic locally does it all the time through the upper cover.

[914lps]

Gee i must have an american made 91 ls 400, my gen went out at 130,000 miles and could not be rebuilt. :D

I have 91 so I don't spend to much time on do I or don't replace the belt. But if it would kill my engine, I would not push it past factory specs. Just way to costly if you loose the bet.

[swordfish]

hi dudes

my 92 ls400 has 234000 km (thats 146,000 miles), had belt at 100,000km (62,000 miles) by lexus dealer in 1996, and i just did it myself now, after reading all u guys banging on about changing belts. To be honest, it looked ok for another couple of years to me, but i wanted to do water pump and idlers etc for peace of mind. Now I can give it a big rev if i feel like it without sweating. The only noticable difference in performance is cos I changed plugs and leads too- definatley recommended.

[monarch]

Gee i must have an american made 91 ls 400, my gen went out at 130,000 miles and could not be rebuilt.

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Yes the alternators on the first generation LS400 are fairly short lived, but only because power steering fluid drips into them from leaky power steering pumps. As others have pointed out, periodically changing the PS fluid and cleaning the steering rack solenoid filter screen prevents high fluid pressures from ever developing which in turns helps prevent leaks.

[blake918]

Yeah, I'll probably bust my knuckles and try and replace it without removing the radiator. ;)

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It will be really tough to do it with the radiator in. In a timing belt job, taking the rad out is the least of your troubles (remembering what bolts go where is probably the most fun! LOL). If I remember correctly it comes out very quickly (like under 20 minutes). Not to mention, one little slip with a screw driver or ratchet, and the radiator is punctured= $360.

[alsalih]

Just to give you guys an idea, today I decided to open the left side cam pulley cover on my 98 LS which has 112K miles, to check the condition of the timing belt as it is still the original. Of course given that it is an interference engine I'm not too comfortable not replacing it yet at the same time I don't have the time to replace it myself nor do I want to spend over $1K to have the dealer do it. In any case, I was able to get to the top of the belt and there were small fine cracks in it. I couldn't see the teeth so I don't know what condition they're in. Although many of you will not agree with me, I'm going to leave it for now as I think I can safely get another 10K miles from it. All the instances of timing belt failures that I have heard of occurred during start up especially when the weather is cold and the engine oil is thick. Despite the fact that several of the broken timing belts were on interference engines, in none of the instances was any valve damage done.

[TexLexus]

90~97 LS400: non-interference

98+ LS400: VVTi interference

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You are correct.

as for the ES300:

1990-1991 ES250, Non interference

1992-94 ES300, Non interference,

95-up ES series, Interference.

OK, I am very confused now, I have read through the Forums and have heard directly from Service Representatives at the dealership that beggining with the 1995 LS' the car had an interference engine, that if the timing belt broke, you are out of luck, bend valves and possibly whack the pistons goodbye.

This thread does not seem to think the 95 is an interference engine. Could you confirm?

Thanks,

Tex