Engine Gel Problem

[tomb57]

I understand some Rx300's had an engine gel problem. I've only had our 2000 RX300 for 2 months and I'm wondering how I can check to see if there's a gel problem now or upcoming. Thanks for any help.

[monarch]

If your recently purchased 2000 RX300 has had engine oil changes every 6 months or 5,000 miles or sooner then there is no possibility of engine sludge.

But, if your vehicle did not come with service records or if the previous owner stretched out some oil changes to 7,500 miles or beyond, then one of the engine's valve covers should be removed to inspect the valvetrain for the presence of sludge.

[wing0]

When u say 5000 miles or 6 months...whichever comes first right??

my mom has a 2001 RX with 14000 miles.....she doesn't drive it much and it's almost always city driving so it'll take a while to get that 5000 miles...

I guess it's safer to get a oil change every 6 months then right?? but lexus charge a lot for just oil change tho...would a toyota dealership change it? I can probably do it myself, but rarely at home to do this.

[bartkat]

When u say 5000 miles or 6 months...whichever comes first right??

my mom has a 2001 RX with 14000 miles.....she doesn't drive it much and it's almost always city driving so it'll take a while to get that 5000 miles...

I guess it's safer to get a oil change every 6 months then right?? but lexus charge a lot for just oil change tho...would a toyota dealership change it? I can probably do it myself, but rarely at home to do this.

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Right, might even want to change even more often if it isn't driven much. Short trips and city driving are probably "adverse conditions". It's also a good idea to take a car out on the road once in a while and "blow the dust out of it". Run highway speeds in a lower gear for some distance just to sorta clean thhings out.

You can probably get the oil changes done at Jiffy Lube or some place like that. Just be sure to use good brand name oil that meets specs and (I prefer) to use Toyota filters.

I change my oil every 3000 miles or 3 or 4 months. Some think that's excessive, but I've done this for over 20 years and never had a problem with any of my vehicles.

[wwest]

The letter from Lexus/Toyota acknowledging this problem and extending the warranty beyond the standard made it fairly clear that the developement of engine sludge in this series was NOT due to the owner's failure to change the oil & filter on a recommended or scheduled basis.

As a matter of fact the new warranty coverage is not in any way dependent on proof of regular maintanance.

Additionally Lexus/Toyota has stated publically that an engineering change was made on later versions of this engine in order to prevent future problems.

Absolutely NOT saying regular maintenance procedures shouldn't be followed. BUt I would say that you should ignore whatever a dealer says in favor of the schedules in the owners manual. The recommedation for the new Porsche series is now at 15,000 miles.

[wing0]

I also remember that they said they fixed the problem for 2001, but it was after a certain batch...now how am i supposed to get this info so that i can check if my car is in danger

[Russ White]

I too have a 2001 RX300 purchased used with 65,000 miles. I am also very interested to learn the details of the "letter" regarding sludge, how the sludge can be removed should I have it, and at what point ( S/N ) did modifications take place to the engine making the sludge less of an issue.

Thanks in advance,

Russ

[RX in NC]

Russ,

If you'll call Lexus Customer Service at the toll-free number (800-255-3987), provide your Vehicle Identification Number and contact information, and ask to receive a copy of the "engine gel letter", Lexus will mail you a copy which you should retain in case you experience this problem in the future.

The official party line is that if the vehicle gets routine oil-and-filter changes throughout its service life, it will never suffer a gel problem. But all RX owners of this vintage should obtain this letter and keep it in their files for their own protection.

[Russ White]

Thanks RX - I tried your suggestions, but no luck. Lexus corporate was very aware of the bulletin I was requesting, but insisted I must go to my local Lexus dealer and request a "printout" from them. So far my local Lexus dealer has ignored by email request made earlier. Looks like I'll have to invest the time and miles to get there. I just hope they don't have some excuse for not producing it when I get there.

Russ

[RX in NC]

Russ,

Don't give in to Lexus Corporate - call them back and if the customer service rep you speak with continues to refuse to mail you the letter, then keep escalating up the chain-of-command until you speak with a manager who agrees to mail you a copy. You must be professional but extremely firm and clearly unwilling to waiver from your position that you deserve a copy of the letter because the health and well-being of your vehicle may be at stake.

That's exactly what I did late last year when I received my copy. I played hardball and the fourth or fifth person I spoke with during a half-hour phone call to Lexus Corporate finally realized that I wasn't go to accept "no" for an answer.

My copy of the letter showed up in my mailbox about a week later.

[VGR]

If your RX300 V6 engine could talk to you it would say: "no letter from Lexus will stop me from sludging so stop wasting your time trying to get your hands on this letter. Spend your time feeding me clean engine oil every 6 months or 5,000 miles and then I will faithfully deliver 300,000 miles of troublefree service."

If your RX 300 transmission could talk to you it would say: "no extended warranty from Lexus will stop me from failing at between 60,000 - 120,000 miles so stop wasting your time trying to get an extended warranty. Spend your time feeding me clean transmission oil every 15,000 miles and then I will faithfully deliver 300,000 miles of troublefree service.

[Russ White]

Okay - I guess I was just curious to see what Lexus had to say about the issue. I will do both the oil changes and transmission fluid drain and fills at least as often as you suggest. If somone would be so kind as to post the contents of the gel TSB my curiosity would be satisfied.

thanks,

Russ

[willpatt]

I purchased a 2001 rx300 about a month ago with no service records for oil changes (only 15 and 30m services), found out it had engine sludge, and had to have the engine taken apart and thoroughly cleaned. It has 35m miles on it. Lexus totally covered the engine clean without an argument. I think they are really trying to stand behind this problem and do the right (??) thing. I have done a lot of research on sludge and have not come across any one who had this problem who Lexus did not cover, except a few who had 100+ miles on them and/or were 10+ year old cars. Has anyone out there had this problem and had any problem getting Lexus to cover it? It would be interesting to hear any responses to that.

[Russ White]

Will.

Could you tell us how you found out it had sludge? What details do no know about taking the engine apart? Were the heads removed or what?

Thanks,

Russ

[VGR]

Could you tell us how you found out it had sludge?  What details do no know about taking the engine apart?  Were the heads removed or what?

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Any engine with an unknown service history can be quickly inspected for sludge formation by removing one of the valve covers to inspect the valvetrain. The sludge - gel actually -looks like amber colored bits of jello scattered around among the valvetrain components.

[willpatt]

Mine had started smoking when the engine was first started for the day. Yes, they took the head off and basically took the engine apart and cleaned every thing. They put new rings, bearings on the crank, replaced the valve seals, and all of the gaskets. They cleaned the entire oil system, pan, etc. The block was not damaged. It took about a week at the Lexus dealership.

[tomb57]

Thanks for all the info. on the gel problem. I had to know, so I pulled the front valve cover off to inspect. To my suprise it was super clean. My RX has 72,000 miles and I pull a trailer. Even though I've only had it for 2500 miles, I think I'll change oil at 3000 miles. Thanks again for the info.

[Russ White]

Tom,

Good for you! I plan to do the same. I ordered a left valve cover gasket today. I hope that is the cover near the front of the car. Did you find you needed to replace this gasket?

Thanks,

Russ

[artinist]

i have always changed oil at 3000 miles on mine.

having worked on my cars for a long time, it seems like a very stupid idea to let the car run on the same oil for much more than 3000 miles much less the 7500 miles like some honda engine stickers suggest.

i want to see the moron who came up with that idea to drain the nasty black oil after 4000 miles and see how much polutents there are in it and then pour it back in the engine and drive it for another 4000 miles without even changing filter.

[ColinBarber]

Anybody know why the drain intervals are so low in the US? In the UK all Toyota/Lexus have drain intervals of 10,000 miles and most of the german cars now go 20,000 miles.

[RX400h]

Anybody know why the drain intervals are so low in the US? In the UK all Toyota/Lexus have drain intervals of 10,000 miles and most of the german cars now go 20,000 miles.

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10,000-20,000 miles between changes is quite simply, a bad idea, regardless of the vehicle. I've read many oil analysis test results and typically, 12,000 miles is pushing the limit for synthetic oils. Although I don't have a Lexus yet, I do know that Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW specify synthetic oils and long drain intervals for their vehicles. I have also heard from an "all German" repair shop that they are seeing many German autos come in with sludge buildup. The owners were following recommended 15,000 mile oil changes. I really don't know of any oil filters that can filter adequately for more than 7500 miles, so even if the oil can last longer than that (and virtually all synthetics can), the filter will end up bypassing its clogged elements, allowing dirty oil to circulate through the engine.

The solution? GM has included an oil-life algorythm in every Corvette for many years now. My 2001 Corvette monitors driving habits, including frequency and duration of trips and oil temperature. The digital readout in my dash tells me that I can go the maximum length of time (1 year) without changing the Mobil 1 5W-30 oil. After one year, the percentage of oil life remaining is approx. 15%. I drive the car in mostly city conditions and go 5500 miles per year.

This type of oil life monitor is now being included in many other GM models and should be standard in every vehicle sold here. Another nice feature of the Corvette is the tire pressure monitors. The digital display will flash "Low tire pressure" if it falls to 24psi.

[Lexusfreak]

I agree with both of those features you mentioned RX. They are worth their weight in gold no doubt. B) Now do you use a special oil filter or just an AC Delco filter for your Vette? No sludge build up & you still had 15% oil life after all that as well? Very impressive feature! ;)

[jgr7]

My 94 Eldorado had the oil life monitor also and it never let me get much past 6.5k with out hitting 10% oil life left, at that point it comes up in the DIC display every time you start the car until you reset it. Cadillac also has a Transmission fluid monitor. Most of the guys that I've talked to about the trans monitor say it stays at 100% until you have an event in the trans like shift solinoids or an over heating problem. At that point the life indicator drops real fast to 10% and you change and reset. Cadillac recomends a change at 100k for the trans.

Jeff

[OCNLVR]

Has anyone ever used Auto-Rx as an engine flush to clean the engine sludge? I used it every 30,000 miles and no problem with sludge with my 2000 RX300 with 67K.

I just think it is best to change oil every 3000 miles. It is such an inexpensive insurance against sludge build up.

I asked the Lexus dealer to change the oil drain plug to Fram Sure Drain so I can easily change the oil myself. All I have to deal with is to get around the exhaust manifold to replace the oil filter.

[RX400h]

I agree with both of those features you mentioned RX.  They are worth their weight in gold no doubt.  B)  Now do you use a special oil filter or just an AC Delco filter for your Vette?    No sludge build up & you still had 15% oil life after all that as well?  Very impressive feature!  ;)

   

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I have used an AC Delco filter when they were available at Walmart, but since Walmart no longer sells them, I have used a Mobil1 filter and just recently, a K&N filter (each, about $10.00). The oil experts over at Corvetteforum.com seem to prefer the K&N filter, but I'll bet the difference between it and the ACDelco is not enough to be concerned about unless the car is frequently raced. The owner's manual specifies yearly changes if milage is lower than normal, so I not only change the Corvette oil yearly, but also change my Mazda's (MX6 GT-Turbo) oil yearly, as it too, uses Mobil 1 synthetic oil.

Cadillac also has a Transmission fluid monitor. Most of the guys that I've talked to about the trans monitor say it stays at 100% until you have an event in the trans like shift solinoids or an over heating problem. At that point the life indicator drops real fast to 10% and you change and reset. Cadillac recomends a change at 100k for the trans.

Wow, I honestly didn't know that type of monitor existed, but ideally it would have an algorythm that measures number of shifts, temperature of the fluid, and driving habits to determine fluid life. GM does come out with some innovative features every now and then. I love my Heads Up Display that can show vehicle speed, engine speed, oil level, oil pressure, or fuel level, all without taking my eyes off the road.