Why Did You Choose The Es?

[SW03ES]

There's a lot of bargaining room on the ES but they're not going to sell it under invoice, and the invoice is similar to the MSRP of the TL. My point is even if you can get an ES for invoice, its going to cost the same as a similarly equipped TL sold at MSRP.

I bought mine last week for $700 under invoice. No trade in. In Southern CA.

Thats CA though. For some reason the prices are way lower in CA for Lexus. When I bought mine I almost got it from a buying service out of CA but the shipping would have eaten up the savings.

[MS_ES330]

For some reason the prices are way lower in CA for Lexus.

I think the reverse is true for the TL. For some reason, they tend sell for a higher price in CA than in the Northeast.

[krg04]

-Sometimes you can get lucky and find a base ES that has been dropped from a fleet order or something, but these cars don't have any equipment, not even HID headlights.

-Only way to find out is to take em for a frive ;) Good luck!

I see quite a few 2002+ ES's around here without HID headlights. Maybe they just don't ship many to your area? I don't know. My mom likes neutral colors (the white, tan, or the light greenish color...and she wants the beige interior. Not sure if that would be considered undesireable or not? My parents will most likely finance the car, so the fact that Lexus has 2.9% apr helps too. Acura had nothing.

Btw, thanks for all the info you've given me...hopefully I'll get her to take the Lexus for a spin this week. My mom is not in a hurry. In fact we test drove the TL over a month ago, and still haven't bought a car. She's says she'll "get it when she's ready." I am really starting to like the ES, at least in the styling department...I think it makes more of a statement than the TL.

[SW03ES]

No problem buddy, I'm happy to help!

I see a good many 02's with no HID but they're most likely early run cars. Lexus ships them acording to area of the country, the cars that come into the east coast all ship a certain way while the cars that ship to the west coast another. They get several versions of the ES in CA that we don't get here. For instance all nav/lev cars in CA have chrome wheels and AVS while on the east coast both of those options are basically unavailiable from the factory. Lexus is just weird like that.

The styling is an interesting comparison between the two. I shopped for almost two years before I bought my ES and was originally going to get a GS300 or a pre owned LS400. I really didnt like the new ES. It grows on you, every time I see it I like it more, and now I think its one of the best looking sedans on the road. The TL is edgy and trendy and instantly likable. The question will be which design is still going to look contemporary 5-6 years down the road. My guess is it will be the ES because of the fact that the design needs to grow on people. The TL looks great and "now" but 6 years from now who knows what "now" will be. I think thats one of Lexus' best attributes, their cars age so gracefully. Even 92 ES300s still look pretty fresh and new. I see a nice one thats well cared for and its still really a car to be proud of. Acura had that with the Legend but that died along with the Legend model name.

As for the colors light colors seem to be the most popular on the ES, the tan interior is also very popular. Mystic Sea (light green) and tan is a good combination. This car also comes with grey interior but its very rare. Black garnet (my cars color) is great looking and also usually ships with tan (mine's black). Black cars also usually ship with tan. White always has tan. If she wants a light color with tan it will have to be the Mystic Sea or the white. I think both look great on the ES.

Lexus has a color called "Alabaster Metallic" which is sort of an off-white grey silvery tan color. Lexus salesmen call this car the "unwanted child" and you can usually find really good discounts on them as dealerships hate having them in inventory. Its not a bad looking color in certain lights, but its not as nice as the rest of the ES' colors. Its usually matched with grey, sometimes with black interiors.

For me it was between three colors, Millenium Silver with black interior, Mystic Sea with grey interior, and Black Garnet with Black interior. I decided against the silver because everyone had it, the Mystic Sea was simply too hard to get with a grey interior and I didnt want tan, so it was the Black Garnet. I don't reccomend she get this color unless you or she are willing to care for it. It scratches easy and really looks bad when its dirty, needs to be cared for with detailing knowledge. The Mystic Sea and the white will be much easier to keep nice.

[SW03ES]

For some reason the prices are way lower in CA for Lexus.

I think the reverse is true for the TL. For some reason, they tend sell for a higher price in CA than in the Northeast.

Thats very possible. Maybe because the TL is made here and the ES is made in Japan.

Thats another reason to buy the ES over the TL, the TL is built here. Not to knock american workers but even in cars like the Camry you can see a real quality difference between Camrys made in Japan and Camrys made here. We just don't have the same attention to detail the Japanese have.

[krg04]

Not to cause problems, this is just for your amusement...

A couple comments from TL owners

"My prejudice against the ES330 is knowing that it's a Camry with some extra insulation and end caps. If the ES330 suits you- i.e. you like the cushy ride an understated plasti-elegance, save yourself about $4k and go for the Camry. The reliability is even better. Just don't kid yourself that it will perform and handle in the same league as the TL."

Does this guy not realize that the TL happens to be an ACCORD with some extra insulation and end caps?

"I liked the styling on previous ES models, but they have transformed it into a car only a true Lex-loyalist could love. Pair that with Anemic styling and performance and it leaves me asking why anyone would buy this car??"

OK, don't ask...some people shouldn't be allowed to have opinions.

"I too drove the usual suspects when I decided to replace my 97 ES last fall. I was so disappointed in the performance of the ES330, when I tried to accelerate briskly the lag was like I was dialling up "all ahead full" from the bridge, it'm not sure how they've managed to disguise the 237 hp so well."

"Who buys ES? Mostly older women. That should tell you something about the car."

"IMO, the ES330 screams CAMRY, while the TL only whispers accord."

"Both my dad and my uncle have ES's, which should give you some idea of the age of ES buyers."

Ok...that's enough. I do not agree with these people at all. These comments were not directed at me, I just found them on a car forum on which someone had asked which car people thought was a better choice.

[SW03ES]

Lemme guess, an Acura forum? LOL. hondaacura.net or acura-tl.com?

Don't pay those people any attention, every car forum (except a few ones like this one) are like that, always downing the competitors product., A certain other Lexus board which shall remain nameless is infamous for getting into *BLEEP*ing matches with MBWorld and the BMW forums. Its just a bunch of desk chair knowitalls flapping their fingers, its really pretty sad. The common cry of Lexus haters is that the cars are only dressed up Toyotas and that the ES especially is only a dressed up Camry. People that feel this way simply don't know what they are talking about and have never directly compared a Lexus and Toyota product. Only about 20% of the ES comes from the Camry and thats basically powertrain and suspension components. I love Lexus vehicles and I too thought I could get away with just buying a Camry...until I drove one. Its a totally different car. The members of the forum I mentioned before even ostracize the ES owners because it isn't a "real Lexus". Some people are just arrogant morons, if they have to put down other people and other vehicles to make themselves feel better about their purchase, let em.

Don't let their behavior turn you off of the TL, you and your mom may really like it. They just don't have as much class as we have here at the LOC ;)

[krg04]

They just don't have as much class as we have here at the LOC ;)

You are absolutely right about that. This is probably one of, if not the classiest forum i've seen. The Honda/Acura forums are the worst. I posted something a while back saying we test drove the TL. When my parents decided to wait, certain people were all over me saying I was all talk, and my parents probably never looked at the TL in the first place, and that I was goning to fail at life if I couldn't do something simple like brainwash my parents into buying a car they weren't sure about, I was also told I was just hanging around the forum because I was jealous of the people who "actually" owned TLs...Give me a break. That REALLY turned me off. I'm 17, I wanted a cheap first car to learn on when I turned 16, so I bought a Saturn Ion. It's nice, but nothing great. On the Saturn forum, they constantly bash Japanese products, claiming they are overhyped, pay the auto magazines to make them look good, etc. I said once that I liked my car, but I thought Toyota had much nicer interiors in their cars then Saturn did. I got chewed out and called a Japanese lover or something. This place is not like that. I don't know if that is because the average age of the members here is much higher, or because Lexus attracts a different crowd than the others, or both.

One question, if someone claims the ES is not a "real" Lexus, wouldn't that mean the RX300-330 is not a "real" lexus either? Some people...

[SW03ES]

No for some reason they don't seem to feel that way about the RX lol. The RX is actually the most Lexus specific of the Lexus SUVs, the GX and LX are almost directly rebadged (LX much moreso).

You'll find thats how most Internet forums are, we work really hard here to make sure that doesn't happen. It does at times, we just take care of it before most people notice. Not sure why the members here are so much more respectful, out average age is actually pretty low. We just attract the classy people I guess!

[krg04]

The RX is actually the most Lexus specific of the Lexus SUVs, the GX and LX are almost directly rebadged (LX much moreso).

That's true, I didn't even think of that. I just mentioned the RX because of it's Camry roots.

[wed3k]

this guy from HAN told us to sign up and diss you lexus guys but my parents both have lexus', a camry and i have an accord. dont mind those honda owners, acrura has more recalls than honda, lol.

[Senna4ever]

Hey, krg04! <-----that's root beer (cuz you're not old enuf yet!), not real beer!

Welcome to the club. Anyways, here is my 2 cents.

In addition to my 1997 ES300, I had a 1989 Acura Legend coupe. Sadly, I sold the Legend last year. I loved that car, as it was more fun to drive than my ES. I considered buying a 2004 TL, or one of the left over stock of 2003 TL Type-S. I loved the TL-S because one day when I took in my Legend for servicing they had overbooked on loaner cars, so the guys gave me the dealership's demo TL-S for the day! Woot! That car was a blast to drive...I loved it.

Then the new 2004 TL came out. I took it for a test drive, and was a bit dissapointed. The car has an awesome drivetrain, very powerful and very fun to drive, but the ride is much more harsh and NVH levels are much higher than my ES300. Maybe even more so than my old Legend. The BOSE stereo isn't as clear as the Pioneer system in my 7 year old ES300. The ES300/330 are so much more refined. Not as fun to drive as a TL, but it doesn't bother me too much.

If your parents decide on the ES330, I suggest the AVS suspension. In comfort mode it's as smooth as a Caddilac, but in sports mode, it gets tight and almost rides and handles like a TL. You really can't go wrong with the two cars, it's just personal preference. I suspect your parents will appreciate the higher refinment levels that the ES offers, unless they are regular canyon carvers.

If I had to make a choice between a 2004 ES330 & a 2004 TL, I would have to go for a long test drive to make a decision, but I think I would opt for an ES330, or maybe even a 2003 TL Type-S, as I like the styling more than the 2004.

Just tell your parents to ask both dealers for an extended test drive consisting of highway, city roads, winding roads and some bumpy sections. Pay attention to ride, NVH, ergonomics, ingress/egress, & comfort (are the seats comfortable on a long drive? Are the controls within easy reach?). You just can't tell what the car is like from a 15 minute test.

Hope this helps, man! B)

[krg04]

Hope this helps, man! B)

Yup...thanks for the info. I stopped by the local Lexus dealer tonight to pick up a brochure for my mom but they were out <_< Guess these ES's are popular.

Also, I checked out that Alabaster color that was mentioned earlier, I actually kinda liked it...maybe I just have bad taste.

[SW03ES]

this guy from HAN told us to sign up and diss you lexus guys but my parents both have lexus', a camry and i have an accord. dont mind those honda owners, acrura has more recalls than honda, lol.

LOL Thanks for not coming over here and starting an Internet flame war ;)

Do me a favor though and just let the members on your forum know that we will not tolerate members from that site or any other site coming over here and disrespecting our club. Anyone that wants to come over and discuss maturely and fairly the attributes of these two cars or any other matter are 100% welcome, we don't care what sort of car they own they are welcome to join and contribute. If they come over here with the intent to "diss" us and harass our members they will be immediately banned and we will take legal action with their ISPs and/or against the owners of HAN if neccisary. We don't mess around with stuff like this and the laws regarding use of an internet connection for the purpose of harassing others are very clear.

That also goes for our members, any LOC member that goes over to another forum to harass its members will find their membership here terminated. We log IP addresses and I'm sure they do too so the admins of both sites will likely know exactly who you are.

We can all make the Internet a better place to be by not contributing to stupid crap like forum wars.

If your parents decide on the ES330, I suggest the AVS suspension.

Its not availiable on the east coast ;)

[wed3k]

this guy from HAN told us to sign up and diss you lexus guys but my parents both have lexus', a camry and i have an accord. dont mind those honda owners, acrura has more recalls than honda, lol.

LOL Thanks for not coming over here and starting an Internet flame war ;)

Do me a favor though and just let the members on your forum know that we will not tolerate members from that site or any other site coming over here and disrespecting our club. Anyone that wants to come over and discuss maturely and fairly the attributes of these two cars or any other matter are 100% welcome, we don't care what sort of car they own they are welcome to join and contribute. If they come over here with the intent to "diss" us and harass our members they will be immediately banned and we will take legal action with their ISPs and/or against the owners of HAN if neccisary. We don't mess around with stuff like this and the laws regarding use of an internet connection for the purpose of harassing others are very clear.

That also goes for our members, any LOC member that goes over to another forum to harass its members will find their membership here terminated. We log IP addresses and I'm sure they do too so the admins of both sites will likely know exactly who you are.

We can all make the Internet a better place to be by not contributing to stupid crap like forum wars.

If your parents decide on the ES330, I suggest the AVS suspension.

Its not availiable on the east coast ;)

hey np mang. :D

[93LSOwner]

krg04: Good luck on your decision. Both are nice cars.

[krg04]

krg04: Good luck on your decision. Both are nice cars.

Thank you...

Knowing my parents, it may be a while before they decide on either...but I'll let you all know when they do.

FYI: I now like the ES330 better than the TL

[Senna4ever]

If your parents decide on the ES330, I suggest the AVS suspension.

Its not availiable on the east coast ;)

Really? I thought one could special order it....

[SW03ES]

Sure, you can special order it but its going to take a while. It may not even be possible now because its so late in the model year, they'd be looking at an 05. That wouldn't be a bad thing depending on whether or not they like the refresh, but they're not going to get much of a deal on it for 3-4 months (probably looking at sticker on a special order) whereas they can get an 04 now for invoice. Thats about $4000 they're playing with. If they want an ES, they should buy one now. Lexus' become very scarce in August as production basically stops for a month and a half or so while they re-tool for the model year change, Lexus prices can even go up because of low supply at the end of the model year. January (the best time to buy any car, the worst month of the year in the car business) and July are the best times to buy a Lexus.

I've never driven one with AVS (nor even ever seen one) but from the reviews it doesn't sound like its worth it. One reviewer wrote "Too soft on lowest setting, too hard on highest, middle feels just like the standard suspension so why bother"

[vtechbrain]

Well being a TL owner I'm going to add my 2 cts worth. The ES 300 and TL share a FWD entry luxury platform. That is where the similarities end. The ES 300 is in the Buick spectrum of the automotive market while the TL is in the BMW camp. The ES is significantly more expensive since a loaded TL will top out under 35K, which includes navigation, DVD audio (which blows the Mark Levinson away not withstanding its made by Panasonic, shows you how important names are!), HIDS, leather, XM radio, blue tooth phone ready, voice recognition, dual zone climate control, the list goes on and on as far as "luxury" is concerned. Try to equip an ES with all those goodies and see if you pay less than 40k list. From the mechanical point the Tl has a smaller engine 3.2 vs 3.3 that produces 40 more horsepower, standard vehicle stability assist, a six speed manual tranny with limited slip differential, Brembo brakes and a slightly firmer though very much nimbler suspension. The ES is a great car if you're over 50 and appreciate a little softer leather over handling, power, sophistication and value. Lest I forget, yes, the TL is a dolled up Accord and the ES is a dolled up Camry! At least when you climb in the TL no accord interior parts are directly tranferred from one to the other. In the ES some of the trim pices scream I'm a Camry! :chairshot:

[nicksan]

My 2 cents also.

I have a 1999 TL. I am selling it.

I bought a 2001 ES300 this past Sunday and am picking it up tomorrow.

Before I made up my mind on the ES300, I considered the TL 2002/2003, TSX, BMW 3 series, G35 of which I test drove the BMW and ES300.

I can say this. The BMW felt "heavy" to me...too heavy for my taste.

The ES300 felt "lite" to me...almost no road feedback at all, just SMOOTH, luxury comfort...maybe not the most fun car on the block.

My 99 TL? The perfect blend of sports and luxury. It's still smooth but you can feel the road just enough to make things fun. Plus it's wicked fast. I really like the way the TL DRIVES.

The reason why I chose the ES:

-Lexus vs. Acura...Lexus wins in reputation and reliability in my opinion.

-TL was noisy with interior rattles, plastic rubbing off each other, generally cheap fake wood.

-TL may have potential tranny problems. Honda/Acura going through major recalls etc.

-I also have a MDX. Same problem. Interior rattling, plastic, tranny, etc.

-ES is quiet and feels more quality than TL.

I was thinking about getting a 2002/2003 TL with navi for the same price I got my ES, but it all came down to reliabilty, comfort, luxury. I felt the ES was a safe choice. Buying a TL right now is a gamble for me.

I'm not bashing the TL. It's a FUN car. It's fast. It's slick. But there is a reason why it's cheaper than the ES...in fact there is a reason why all Acuras are cheaper than their Lexus counterparts, and it's not because of the bloated price with the Lexus name, it's because of the quality. (not neccessarily pure driving pleaseure...but that's up to the individual's style) Yeah it might be a camry on crack. But it's quiet, smooth, luxurious...it's nice.

I would say the TL is somewhere in-between the BMW and the ES...

They are both nice cars...but I'd stay away from Acura 5 speed V6 cars right now b/c of their tranny issues. If they straighten that sh*t out, and improve on the interior plastics, then go for it dude!

Nick

[alank22181]

Hey,

I'm new here. We're contemplating the purchase of a new car. We test drove the Acura TL and loved it.

I'm new here. We're contemplating the purchase of a new car. We test drove the Acura TL and loved it.

If anyone rides in the backseat- the 2004 ES330 wins by a landslide. The ES 330 is quiet, solid and backseat passengers enjoy quality support, sunscreen protection, A/C and a very quiet ride. The audio system is excellent for backseat riders and the headroom canb accomodate people who are over 6ft 2in easily.

The 2004 TL was noisy, from road noise AND engine noise, the back seat footroom was inadequate and the headroom was nominal.

I found the TL does have a livelier engine, a quicker response and a voice actuated system for internal controls. I test drove BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, Toyota, Audi and several others over 3 months. Each time comparing ride quality, interior and exterior finish and CUSTOMER SERVICE of the dealers.

Lexus won my comaprisons each time. Take your time and drive each one, making sure you have someone in the backseat. Cars are a very personal choice, in the end your Mom will like one over the others.

[norcallexus]

I recently bought my 2001 ES300 Coach Edition and thoroughly enjoy it. For the last 15 years I have driven a BMW 528i and finally had to put it to rest after 310,000 miles. She served me well, but she was a tired puppy. So when I began to look at a replacement I wanted something that could compete with the old BMW. I didn't want a new BMW because of the premium gas requirement and high selling prices. Loved the looks of the Lexus. I went to a dealer and he let me drive one for an entire afternoon. I was really impressed with their customer service. Got to run the vehicle through the paces of freeway driving, city street driving, parallel parking, mall parking, etc. Although the BMW's beat Lexus for steering and suspension, the ES300 just had a nice plush ride. Everything about the car said quality and luxury. I was sold right then and there. The only hitch was they didn't have the colors that I liked. Then the dealer showed me a nice 01 Coach Edition but it was already sold. So I told him if you can find me one like that I would buy it. As it turned out, a few weeks later I found one from a private party ( 1 owner ) who was selling his through a classified ad. It was immaculate and ever bit as nice and cared for as any dealer CPO car. We agreed on a price and today I am proud to be with the Lexus family. It's a great car.

Also this is a great forum. Have been browsing previous postings and learning much about my ES300 features and mechanical things to watch out for in the future. Keep up with the great postings. Thanks!

[Matador]

In all honesty I think Acura has been struggling to compete for some time now. It almost seems that they peaked with the Legend (I loved that car...). However the new and "improved" TL looks as though it may bring Acurca back into the circles of Lexus and its competators. I dont even pretend to be well versed in the car industry, just an observer. Back in 91 my mom purchased her first LS400 in 92 my dad came home with a Legend. It was fun seeing those two in the garage together ;) Well...lets just say she now drives an 01 LS430 and he has an 02 GS300. I dont mean to bash Acura or its owners in anyway, Im just tossing in my 2 cents along with everyone else.

[Senna4ever]

The audio system in the 2004 TL is not as clear as the Pioneer system in my 1997 ES300. The DVD audio gives great sound separation, but the Lexus systems are of higher fidelity.