vtechbrain

Fellas, Fellas, No the TL will not beat a ferrari or a turbo porsche or any car of that ilk. Lets stay on the subject. The point was That Toyota (at this time) does not sell any car in North America that will beat a manual transmission TL. Its just a trivial fact. The ES 300 as aother Lexuses are undoubtly great cars they just lack sporty performance. ;)

Ignorance is bliss isn't it? The new 6 spd TL turns 0-60 in 5.8 sec and the quarter at 14.8 and 99mpH. A supra and (FOR GOD SAKES) a tundra could not catch up to me with a rocket pack! Some people are just too funny!!! BTW the new TL is faster than ANY present Lexus or Toyota. Look it up,

Before I forget Senna drove for HONDA. Hows that for a little history? :P

Senna you cant get around the fact that the the honda v6 has a higher output than the toyota v8, sorry you have such sour grapes. Yes the lexus has more torque but so does a GMC pickuptruck diesel, as far as I know people dont use their luxury cars to pull tree stumps. As far as reliabilty of the AWD system its a derivative of the MDX system which to date has been bullet proof. The fact that a BMW7 series costs an arm and a leg is inmaterial except for those that only measure a car by how much it costs (the ignorants). The reviews, tests and reliability of the BMW 7 series have been dismal, in my book and anybody that can see farther than price, its a silly buy. Nissan VQ engines although almost as powerful as hondas are eons below in refinement. BMW' in line sixes are all less powerful than Hondas except for the M series engine which are race not passenger vehicle motors. What if honda decided to put one of their racing engines in a passenger cars (800 HP v8's anyone)? Yes Acura only exists in Canada and US but who cares as far as I know I or you dont live in England or Japan. Acura came into being in america BEFORE lexus. If my Acura wore a Honda badge the ES 300 would sill be licking the ground behind it !!! I personally couldn't care less for which symbol sits on the hood, if I really wanted to I could had bought any hood ornament in the market. I choose a vehicle for its driving dynamics and value. There is simply no denying that Honda is the premier engine maker in the world all other are only second best. I've tried to iluminate some of you around here but there simply isn't anybody as blind (or stupid) as those that don't want to see!!!!

I'm not knocking lexus, toyota makes great cars. Unfortunately, toyota has been quite content to make industrial appliances which in Lexus guise are just refrigerators with alcantara leather. I just come over from the TL forum to clear up misconceptions, since we heard that you guys were knocking the TL. BTW Honda makes V8 engines aplenty they just dont for passenger vehicles (all racing engines are 8 cyl) Honda's basic philosophy has been not to use V8 since they have always produced 4's with the output of 6's and 6's with the output of 8's and for honda value and ecological responsability have always been a trademark. All honda 6's are certified ULEV even the 270HP in my TL. Honda is not and has never been a truck maker, in fact they dont build ANY trucks, all honda SUV's are cross over vehicles. Essentially they are adapting to market pressures in a very succesfull manner MDX's, CRV's and Pilots are selling like hotcakes. Well, time for the educational session to end. Hope that its been useful and that it will help you make a more educated automotive buying decision in the future, HONDAS RULE! :whistles:

LS 430 4.3L v8 290HP. New RL 3.5L v6 300HP AWD. TL 3.2l V6 270 HP. Reliability scores Toyota #1 Honda #2. Best entry luxury sedan (by consumer reports) Acura TL The ES is #4. Last Indy race Honda had the first six positions Toyota and ford scrapped the end of the barrel. I think more automotive research is warranted on your end!

Oh BTW the LS 430 (hands down the best Luxury sedan in the market at this time) better watch its backside because the New RL is not going to take any prisoners. I agree the present RL is as interesting as a colonoscopy, but the new RL looks like it will make up for any previous deficiencies and maybe become a segment leader like the TL. The Acura brand was neglected when Honda focused on "trucks" now it looks like they are back in the ballgame. Never forget that Acura, not lexus was the first Japanese "luxury" brand. Toyota will have to raise the ante now instead of depending on inferior engine technology. No one doubts that Honda makes the most advanced 4's and sixes in the planet (even GM buy's them now!) Lexus has been using the same old tired 8 for a decade now which has a lower output than Hondas 6's (the new RL has a 300HP normally aspirated V6). VVti has been the limp toyota experiment to copy Honda's VTEC technology which is at least one generation ahead. The next few years will be interesting indeed. I love the David and Goliath competitions.

Well being a TL owner I'm going to add my 2 cts worth. The ES 300 and TL share a FWD entry luxury platform. That is where the similarities end. The ES 300 is in the Buick spectrum of the automotive market while the TL is in the BMW camp. The ES is significantly more expensive since a loaded TL will top out under 35K, which includes navigation, DVD audio (which blows the Mark Levinson away not withstanding its made by Panasonic, shows you how important names are!), HIDS, leather, XM radio, blue tooth phone ready, voice recognition, dual zone climate control, the list goes on and on as far as "luxury" is concerned. Try to equip an ES with all those goodies and see if you pay less than 40k list. From the mechanical point the Tl has a smaller engine 3.2 vs 3.3 that produces 40 more horsepower, standard vehicle stability assist, a six speed manual tranny with limited slip differential, Brembo brakes and a slightly firmer though very much nimbler suspension. The ES is a great car if you're over 50 and appreciate a little softer leather over handling, power, sophistication and value. Lest I forget, yes, the TL is a dolled up Accord and the ES is a dolled up Camry! At least when you climb in the TL no accord interior parts are directly tranferred from one to the other. In the ES some of the trim pices scream I'm a Camry! :chairshot: