SW03ES

Thats another thing. I have noticed a little bit of a shift in how the American consumer behaves when it comes to luxury vehicles. Its not quite as "in" to be driving a flashy luxury car and you see a lot of people trading down into less visible vehicles. When you go on the Genesis owners forums you see a lot of members who have traded their luxury branded cars in for the Genesis precisely because it doesn't send as stuffy a message. It will be interesting to see how that effects Genesis sales too. The dealer said that they can't keep more than 1 or 2 on the lot at a time and they sell very well. No reason to doubt him because I was very upfront that I had no intention of buying a car I just wanted to try one out. The name isn't so much the issue as the quality. The ES' audio is pathetic in spec and function when compared to either car. There are a few niggles on the Lincoln, the HVAC vents are cheap feeling and looking...and the floorpan has some unusual angles and the dead pedal feels unnatural. Otherwise...there is not a low quality plastic in the car... You have to take style out of the equation and just look at the materials and the quality with which they are put together...no argument that the Lincoln has a low quality interior.

I know, I broke the rules. Now I've lost all credibility ;) Thats why I would lease one.

Take it to another bodyshop...this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. A good shop can match the paint...

The front end is new, as are the rear lights and bumper. New wheels and colors, several interior trim changes. The new LS460 Sport model... I actually prefer the 07-09 LS460 personally.

You'll be back ;)

I certainly would have that repaired if it were my car...

Oh the Sync is the best voice recognition system out there, but I wasn't basing the decision on that at all. In terms of sound quality the Lexicon system is definately the winner. Yeah, truly the only reason not to buy a Genesis is the brand...

I would not put anything but the OEM fluid in there...sure fire way to cause warranty problems...

Have you ever seen those ads where they show a car but they don't want to pay for the rights to show a specific brand so they put a bunch of parts of different cars together and make a car they don't have to buy the rights to? Thats kind of what the Genesis looks like to me lol. In terms of the LS, its not an LS. Toys aside the LS is more refined and rides MUCH better. Now when the Equus comes over here it might be another story.

I've used Lexol conditioner for years and it is very safe. It is certainly not silicone based.

I was up-county yesterday with some clients and we finished early and I figured I would pop by the old Auto-Mall and see what I could see. I had the opportunity to test drive the 2010 ES350 as well as the 2010 Hyundai Genesis and the 2010 Lincoln MKS. I found it a very eye opening experience for me and thought I would share my thoughts with all of you. Please comment! I'm going to break it down into several sections and declare a winner in each section, at least as pertains to myself. First let me say that all of these vehicles are extremely well built and with very high quality materials. Lincoln has really come a LONG way in this regard as has Hyundai. Really and truly...there is very little quality difference between them and the Lexus, and in some areas they really excel. The vehicles I drove were a 2010 Lexus ES350 with navigation (US Spec loaded, MSRP just over $40k), a 2010 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 V8 (loaded with the tech package, MSRP about $42k), and a 2010 Lincoln MKS (fully loaded with AWD, EcoBoost engine, all the toys MSRP about $55k). The Lincoln is the one of the bunch that really stands out in terms of price, but a 2WD MKS without the EcoBoost engine can be had for $46k. Still the most expensive of the bunch. Exterior Styling The most subjective area to be sure. I thought all three vehicles looked fresh and modern. The Genesis is definitely an attractive car but nondescript. Hyundai deliberately left their emblem off the car everywhere but the rear decklid, and even that dealers sell a Korean-market Genesis emblem kit to replace it, as well as one for the hood and replacement wheel caps. They even offer a replacement airbag with the KDM Genesis emblem. The car I drove had this emblem kit and you would never know it was a Hyundai to look at it. To me though this is the only drawback to the car, part of owning a luxury car is being proud of the brand you have bought into. It almost becomes a lifestyle, with the Genesis you really are giving that up. The Lincoln is also an attractive car, large, awkward at some angles. The Lexus remains fresh with the 2010 update and, although the design is older than the other cars still holds up very well. 1: Lexus; 2: Genesis; 3: Lincoln Interior Styling and Quality This is where we really see the inroads both Hyundai and Lincoln have made on Lexus. As all of you know the ES350’s interior has always been a sore-spot for me, and while the additional trim and material upgrades for 2010 help, it still feels to me a little bit like a “stripper” when compared to its competition nowadays. The wood trim is high quality and the OLED GPS screen is sharp and bright. Seats are comfortable and supportive, all the switchgear move with Lexus precision. The Lincoln’s interior is also mostly high quality with BEAUTIFUL wood trim that looks like it’s from fine furniture, very nice Bridge of Weir leather, high quality carpeting. Far better material quality than the Lexus. The MKS gets new electroluminescent gauges for 2010 which are a huge help, and also features a high quality GPS screen. The Lincoln lags behind the Lexus and Genesis though when it comes to switchgear quality and placement as well as the readouts such as the driver information center which is a Ford parts-bin item. It definitely feels American, everything is thickly padded, leather, wood or chrome, and the steering wheel is large. This is where the Genesis REALLY shines though. The overall feel is very Lexus-esque. Leather quality surpasses the Lincoln and far surpasses the Lexus and borders on some of the softest leather I’ve felt in a car. Leather trimmed dash, nice quality carpets. The gauges are very familiar to Lexus owners and to my eye are the most expensive looking of the lot. All the switchgear is excellent as is the nav screen. All controls are routed through what I think is the best dial controller in the business. The seats are firm but comfortable and there is not a low grade plastic in the entire car. The Genesis also features by far the best rear seat of the bunch with enough room for the person behind to cross his legs. They say interior volume is more than the LS460, and while I don’t quite see that its definitely better than the ES or MKS. The whole thing just screams quality…the only downside is Hyundai’s decision to use imitation wood trim on the interior. To me that is a HUGE shame on such a beautiful car. 1: Genesis; 2: Lincoln; 3: Lexus Audio & Nav To me this is the biggest area where the Lexus is insufficient. The Lincoln features a 16 speaker THX surround 7.1 channel audio system that is excellent, built in XM radio and HD radio. The Genesis features an incredible 17 speaker Lexicon system (a brand only shared with Rolls Royce) with XM and HD radio…and the Lexus has a no-name stock system with no available premium upgrade save the ML on the special order only UL package. Inexcusable Lexus… The GPS system in the Lexus is the standard Lexus setup, albeit with sharper graphics and a new interface and is excellent, the Genesis also features an excellent system that also allows destination input while driving. All feature real time traffic. 1: Genesis; 2: Lincoln; 3:Lexus Ride & Drive This remains the area where the Lexus really shines still. Nothing rides quite like the Lexus and the ES350 is the indisputable ride leader here. All 3 ride VERY well, and while driving you think to yourself "this car rides great", but then you get into the Lexus and the refinement and smoothness of the ride is really on another level. Even my old ES surpised me with the difference when I got back in it to go home. With 140k miles it still rides a lot like the new 2010. In terms of noise isolation I’d say all three are similar. The Lincoln rides somewhat firmer than the Lexus, although my tester had 20s. The Lincoln drove very well with very neutral and nicely weighted steering. This is one sticking point for the Genesis, while it is VERY quiet and rides smoothly, the suspension is quite firm and the ride can get a little bouncy at times. Supposedly the suspension for 2010 is improved, and I have not driven an ’09. I would not call it rough or harsh, the car is valutlike solid, but it is definitely firm. New tires or lower pressures may help, but the issue is there. Power wise it is no contest, the RWD setup and 4.6L V8 on the Genesis simply dwarf both the Lexus and Lincoln. The power delivery on the Genesis reminded me a lot of the Lexus LS, it doesn’t bury the tach when you hit the gas, the power builds through the RPM range making the delivery very smooth. Transmissions on all were very smooth, although the Genesis demonstrated a little more e-throttle lag than the Lexus or Lincoln. All cars idled very smoothly although again the Lexus really shines here. You can tell that the Lexus ride was what both Hyundai and Lincoln were after. 1: Lexus; 2: Lincoln; 3: Genesis Prestige As I have said before, part of owning a luxury vehicle is buying admittance into an exclusive club. Some may try and down play this but really, at the crux of it, this is a big part of why we buy luxury vehicles. The Lexus clearly dominates here, and in terms of dealer quality Lincoln and certainly not Hyundai can come close. The Genesis has me really wishing Hyundai had not taken the cheaper road and created a “Genesis” brand. Like I said Hyundai sells “Genesis” specific badging, and its attractive but part of buying a luxury car is not having to feel the need to hide the manufacturer who makes it. 1: Lexus; 2: Lincoln; 3: Genesis Value This is a no brainer, for $42k in the Genesis you get RWD, a V8, keyless entry, an incredible audio system, super high end materials, dynamic cruise control, an incredibly well built car. You can reproduce all of those things on the Lincoln, but its going to take you to $55k which is absurd for the car. The Lexus is a great car as we all know, but from a feature-per-dollar standpoint the car is the clear loser and by a mile. Now, when you start to consider resale value the Lexus rebounds significantly. Many of the high-tech features on the Genesis and Lexus simply are unavailable on the ES at any price. 1: Genesis; 2: Lexus; 3: Lincoln Would I buy a Hyundai Genesis? No. The long-term viability of the model is too uncertain as is the resale. However, they have some VERY attractive lease deals that basically amount to the car being $200 less per month than an ES350. It is a very hard argument to make IMHO than the ES350 is worth $200 per month more than the Hyundai Genesis, and I would seriously consider leasing one and trying it out for 3 years. Would I buy a Lincoln MKS? No. Same situation though, Ford has some good subsidized leases. Lexus offers no special lease options for the ES, or any Lexus. Buying for the long term, I would still choose the Lexus but they are going to really have to step up their game in 2012 when they do a total revamp of the ES… Feel free to post comments or questions!

Or you might even want to look at a Hyundai Genesis...check out the review I'm about to post...

I was up-county yesterday with some clients and we finished early and I figured I would pop by the old Auto-Mall and see what I could see. I had the opportunity to test drive the 2010 ES350 as well as the 2010 Hyundai Genesis and the 2010 Lincoln MKS. I found it a very eye opening experience for me and thought I would share my thoughts with all of you. Please comment! I'm going to break it down into several sections and declare a winner in each section, at least as pertains to myself. First let me say that all of these vehicles are extremely well built and with very high quality materials. Lincoln has really come a LONG way in this regard as has Hyundai. Really and truly...there is very little quality difference between them and the Lexus, and in some areas they really excel. The vehicles I drove were a 2010 Lexus ES350 with navigation (US Spec loaded, MSRP just over $40k), a 2010 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 V8 (loaded with the tech package, MSRP about $42k), and a 2010 Lincoln MKS (fully loaded with AWD, EcoBoost engine, all the toys MSRP about $55k). The Lincoln is the one of the bunch that really stands out in terms of price, but a 2WD MKS without the EcoBoost engine can be had for $46k. Still the most expensive of the bunch. Exterior Styling The most subjective area to be sure. I thought all three vehicles looked fresh and modern. The Genesis is definitely an attractive car but nondescript. Hyundai deliberately left their emblem off the car everywhere but the rear decklid, and even that dealers sell a Korean-market Genesis emblem kit to replace it, as well as one for the hood and replacement wheel caps. They even offer a replacement airbag with the KDM Genesis emblem. The car I drove had this emblem kit and you would never know it was a Hyundai to look at it. To me though this is the only drawback to the car, part of owning a luxury car is being proud of the brand you have bought into. It almost becomes a lifestyle, with the Genesis you really are giving that up. The Lincoln is also an attractive car, large, awkward at some angles. The Lexus remains fresh with the 2010 update and, although the design is older than the other cars still holds up very well. 1: Lexus; 2: Genesis; 3: Lincoln Interior Styling and Quality This is where we really see the inroads both Hyundai and Lincoln have made on Lexus. As all of you know the ES350’s interior has always been a sore-spot for me, and while the additional trim and material upgrades for 2010 help, it still feels to me a little bit like a “stripper” when compared to its competition nowadays. The wood trim is high quality and the OLED GPS screen is sharp and bright. Seats are comfortable and supportive, all the switchgear move with Lexus precision. The Lincoln’s interior is also mostly high quality with BEAUTIFUL wood trim that looks like it’s from fine furniture, very nice Bridge of Weir leather, high quality carpeting. Far better material quality than the Lexus. The MKS gets new electroluminescent gauges for 2010 which are a huge help, and also features a high quality GPS screen. The Lincoln lags behind the Lexus and Genesis though when it comes to switchgear quality and placement as well as the readouts such as the driver information center which is a Ford parts-bin item. It definitely feels American, everything is thickly padded, leather, wood or chrome, and the steering wheel is large. This is where the Genesis REALLY shines though. The overall feel is very Lexus-esque. Leather quality surpasses the Lincoln and far surpasses the Lexus and borders on some of the softest leather I’ve felt in a car. Leather trimmed dash, nice quality carpets. The gauges are very familiar to Lexus owners and to my eye are the most expensive looking of the lot. All the switchgear is excellent as is the nav screen. All controls are routed through what I think is the best dial controller in the business. The seats are firm but comfortable and there is not a low grade plastic in the entire car. The Genesis also features by far the best rear seat of the bunch with enough room for the person behind to cross his legs. They say interior volume is more than the LS460, and while I don’t quite see that its definitely better than the ES or MKS. The whole thing just screams quality…the only downside is Hyundai’s decision to use imitation wood trim on the interior. To me that is a HUGE shame on such a beautiful car. 1: Genesis; 2: Lincoln; 3: Lexus Audio & Nav To me this is the biggest area where the Lexus is insufficient. The Lincoln features a 16 speaker THX surround 7.1 channel audio system that is excellent, built in XM radio and HD radio. The Genesis features an incredible 17 speaker Lexicon system (a brand only shared with Rolls Royce) with XM and HD radio…and the Lexus has a no-name stock system with no available premium upgrade save the ML on the special order only UL package. Inexcusable Lexus… The GPS system in the Lexus is the standard Lexus setup, albeit with sharper graphics and a new interface and is excellent, the Genesis also features an excellent system that also allows destination input while driving. All feature real time traffic. 1: Genesis; 2: Lincoln; 3:Lexus Ride & Drive This remains the area where the Lexus really shines still. Nothing rides quite like the Lexus and the ES350 is the indisputable ride leader here. All 3 ride VERY well, and while driving you think to yourself "this car rides great", but then you get into the Lexus and the refinement and smoothness of the ride is really on another level. Even my old ES surpised me with the difference when I got back in it to go home. With 140k miles it still rides a lot like the new 2010. In terms of noise isolation I’d say all three are similar. The Lincoln rides somewhat firmer than the Lexus, although my tester had 20s. The Lincoln drove very well with very neutral and nicely weighted steering. This is one sticking point for the Genesis, while it is VERY quiet and rides smoothly, the suspension is quite firm and the ride can get a little bouncy at times. Supposedly the suspension for 2010 is improved, and I have not driven an ’09. I would not call it rough or harsh, the car is valutlike solid, but it is definitely firm. New tires or lower pressures may help, but the issue is there. Power wise it is no contest, the RWD setup and 4.6L V8 on the Genesis simply dwarf both the Lexus and Lincoln. The power delivery on the Genesis reminded me a lot of the Lexus LS, it doesn’t bury the tach when you hit the gas, the power builds through the RPM range making the delivery very smooth. Transmissions on all were very smooth, although the Genesis demonstrated a little more e-throttle lag than the Lexus or Lincoln. All cars idled very smoothly although again the Lexus really shines here. You can tell that the Lexus ride was what both Hyundai and Lincoln were after. 1: Lexus; 2: Lincoln; 3: Genesis Prestige As I have said before, part of owning a luxury vehicle is buying admittance into an exclusive club. Some may try and down play this but really, at the crux of it, this is a big part of why we buy luxury vehicles. The Lexus clearly dominates here, and in terms of dealer quality Lincoln and certainly not Hyundai can come close. The Genesis has me really wishing Hyundai had not taken the cheaper road and created a “Genesis” brand. Like I said Hyundai sells “Genesis” specific badging, and its attractive but part of buying a luxury car is not having to feel the need to hide the manufacturer who makes it. 1: Lexus; 2: Lincoln; 3: Genesis Value This is a no brainer, for $42k in the Genesis you get RWD, a V8, keyless entry, an incredible audio system, super high end materials, dynamic cruise control, an incredibly well built car. You can reproduce all of those things on the Lincoln, but its going to take you to $55k which is absurd for the car. The Lexus is a great car as we all know, but from a feature-per-dollar standpoint the car is the clear loser and by a mile. Now, when you start to consider resale value the Lexus rebounds significantly. Many of the high-tech features on the Genesis and Lexus simply are unavailable on the ES at any price. 1: Genesis; 2: Lexus; 3: Lincoln Would I buy a Hyundai Genesis? No. The long-term viability of the model is too uncertain as is the resale. However, they have some VERY attractive lease deals that basically amount to the car being $200 less per month than an ES350. It is a very hard argument to make IMHO than the ES350 is worth $200 per month more than the Hyundai Genesis, and I would seriously consider leasing one and trying it out for 3 years. Would I buy a Lincoln MKS? No. Same situation though, Ford has some good subsidized leases. Lexus offers no special lease options for the ES, or any Lexus. Buying for the long term, I would still choose the Lexus but they are going to really have to step up their game in 2012 when they do a total revamp of the ES… Feel free to post comments or questions!

I don't have a great deal of time on my hands, but when I spend $40,000 on something I DEMAND it operate properly. Lexus dealers give you loaners...all it takes me is time on the phone. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and my advice to you back then would have been to leave the thing there until it was fixed...or they replaced it. By continuing to buy into the BS they were feeding you and take possession of the car back you accepted their explanation and releaved them of the liability of fixing it. Thats nobody's fault but yours. You try to make me out to be the no-life with tons of time on my hands? Because I demand excellence when I spend a ton of money on something? Hilarious. The car is old now, may as well just give up on this and get on with your life, but if you think the situation would have been any different at another brand you are kidding yourself. The dealer and Lexus are going to do what all companies do, try and get out of having to spend money and time fixing issues for people like you who are willing to suffer for 8 years with a vehicle that is broken and keep on smiling and saying "Okay!" when they say nothing is wrong. BMW is going to do the same thing. The X Factor is you, either you just bend over and take it like you have or you stand up and REFUSE to accept that your very expensive luxury car clunks when you drive it. You should have acted like you are acting now 7 years ago and your vehicle would have been repaired. Just as mine was. I rode in a buddy's 2003 525i with 15,000 miles less than my ES300 which he spent $10,000 on last year in repairs. You're right though...BMW is the answer to all your problems. 100% your issue is a bad steering rack...just like it was on mine. Mine was replaced at 30k miles. Today that will cost so much you'll want to buy a new car. And right...I'm the service manager at your dealer in disguise. I just pretended I lived in another country and posted here 15,000 times just to get one up on you. Thats exactly the situation. Sorry to be a jerk about it, I realize I am, but the "oh woe is me" approach isn't reality here, and I call it like I see it.

You just have to learn to adapt to it. Really doesn't bother me anymore...

I have an 84 month Lexus battery, the car's third. The one before it was replaced under warranty due to a bad cell...

In 100% city driving with short trips...I actually think your mileage is good. IMHO you can't expect better mileage than that with those circumstances on this car.

Its like I've always said, if anybody knows how to snatch defeat from the arms of victory...its the Democrats.

You can wait until the end of the 4 year 50k mile warranty to decide.

Actually the new TL is selling well and you see them pretty often around here. At first my reaction was hideous...but seeing them around its growing on me. I like the front more than the rear. Its got a great interior and drives well.

I don't think you will find BMW or Mercedes any different. You just plain can't decide now all of a sudden as old as it is that you demand it be repaired...you should have dug your heels in years and years ago... There's more than one Lexus dealer in the world too. I personally would take this as a learning experience rather than as something against Lexus. No carmaker is going to cover a repair on an 8 year old car...and they would be crazy to. Its unfortunate that you have lived with this issue for as long as you have...but that was your choice. I...and it sounds like your husband also...would have refused to do so. My car would have been repaired too...I guarantee that because it would not have left the dealer's lot until it was.

Could be...keep us posted...

The best thing you can buy locally is Lexol...but there really aren't any good protectants with UV protection in them available locally. Ultima Interior Guard is the best...

It really depends on what your needs are, do you want a sedan or an SUV? I love driving my smooth quiet sedan for work and during the week. On trips however I miss having a SUV like vehicle with a nice high driving position on the highway, the ability to pull into gravel and rocky parking lots when needed, a hatch and a loadable cargo area, and a rack for skis, etc. The perfect situation for me would be to do what I am trying to do, keep a luxury sedan for myself and get my wife a crossover SUV type vehicle that we can drive on trips. If I were you in your situation I'd probably look at the RX...

Take it to a shop to see...they really might be able to repair it...its hard to tell from looking at it. For OEM the best route is going to be ordering it from Carson on your own and having it shipped to your shop directly for painting. Your car will need to be present so they can match the paint. !Removed! like that happens buddy...to the best of us...