Blown Head Gasket

[david the driver]

My wife just blew the head gasket on our 97 450. It has 156K on it. I'm wondering how common this is, and what are the chances of a more serious underlying problem. For the most part, the truck has been very reliable and maintained well. Based upon a number of things, I'm not sure if I should "open the can of worms" or cut my loses and move on. Not sure if it has red or green antifreeze at this point.

Any history that could help me in my thought process? What's the odds of this being "just a head gasket"

Thanks,

David the Driver.

[93LSOwner]

This is what just happened to my LS400 at 147k:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=9818&

And, the Transmission Pan Gasket is leaking too. But the mechanic said it is not too much that you have to replace it right now. "Unless you have a lot of $$$ to spare."

[dougjohn]

It's been known to happen on LX 450s and '95-'97 Land Cruisers. Some seem to have a problem, others (luckily for me) haven't had a problem with the head gasket failing.

Assuming you get this fixed, you shouldn't have a problem again -- i.e. it's not a common repeating failure from what I understand.

[ellieoh]

Once the head gasket is replaced I would change the coolant on an annual basis - to be safe use Toyota coolant. 156k is nothing for these engines.

[JPI]

My wife just blew the head gasket on our 97 450. It has 156K on it. I'm wondering how common this is, and what are the chances of a more serious underlying problem. For the most part, the truck has been very reliable and maintained well. Based upon a number of things, I'm not sure if I should "open the can of worms" or cut my loses and move on. Not sure if it has red or green antifreeze at this point.

Any history that could help me in my thought process? What's the odds of this being "just a head gasket"

Thanks,

David the Driver.

How do we know it's a blow h/g? Oil in coolant? Engine consume coolant? I've seen a couple of Lx450 h/g failed. But the V6 is notorious for blown h/g.

JPI

[dougjohn]

How do we know it's a blow h/g? Oil in coolant? Engine consume coolant? I've seen a couple of Lx450 h/g failed. But the V6 is notorious for blown h/g.

JPI

Or coolant in oil...

And it's not all that difficult to determine if it's potentially the head gasket...many common symptoms besides what's already been described...watch the engine temp. Most of you should have noticed by now that the temp guage really doesn't move much (or rather this should be the case). If you notice excessive heat -- YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM. White smoke out of the exhaust? Another symptom...

And...not to be too technical or anal about it...it's an I-6, not a V-6. The head gasket issue became a problem when Toyota went to the aluminum head -- it was iron like the block in earlier year models.

[Andrewsreef]

Can I ask you how much it was to repair if you have done so already? I am proably in the same boat as you. Lexus wants $3,500 and calls it an engine overhall.

THanks

Andrew

[dougjohn]

Check this discussion for more info on HG:

radiator flush and HG discussion

Depending on where you get it done, it could run about $1000 or so to fix the HG.

[cpinerjr]

My wife just blew the head gasket on our 97 450. It has 156K on it. I'm wondering how common this is, and what are the chances of a more serious underlying problem. For the most part, the truck has been very reliable and maintained well. Based upon a number of things, I'm not sure if I should "open the can of worms" or cut my loses and move on. Not sure if it has red or green antifreeze at this point.

Any history that could help me in my thought process? What's the odds of this being "just a head gasket"

Thanks,

David the Driver.

←

[cpinerjr]

David:

I am sorry to hear of your problem, I am sorry to report that I have the same problem and Toyota wants $7,500.00 for a engine with 75,000 miles. As you might suspect I have not had the problem repaired yet. I even got a second opinion but, with the same results oil, and antifreeze mixed and the coating on the inside of the engine is removed when you allow that to happen.

I was informed if I just had the head gasket replaced that may give me 10,000-20,000 and I would have to replace the engine.

Currently I am looking for a engine for my 1997 LX 450. I would like to contact a lawyer who specailzed in this kind of problem and prehaps bring a class action law suit because of the number of LX 450s with the same problems.

Sorry to be a bearer of bad news,

Clarence the Driver.....

[Romer]

This is a common problem with LX450s and Land Cruiser 80 series. While your in there, have them fix the Pesky Heater Hose (PHH). The below is a link to this on IH8MUD:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=6994

This is a great site for LX450's. Go up to what is called the 80's section

BTW - a Head Gasket replacement at two local shops in the Denver area runs about $1000. Unless they need to swap the radiator too.

Having to replace the engine is BS. This is basically a Toyota. The entire engine is a Toyota. Take it to a local (not dealer) shop that specialiezes in Toyota. It wil last another 100,000-200,000 miles if done right.

For more info go to the site I linked and do a search on Head Gasket in the 80 series section. It will give you all the info you are looking for

[skylolow]

Look around at some local forgien repair shops. You should have no problem getting a head gasket fixed for under $1300. Make sure you pick a shop that has some history with working on that motor. Last thing you want is someone going in there and just throwing a new head gasket on without maching the head smooth again. You'll be back with in a year getting another head gasket.

[mehullica]

The 4.5 engine is an animal. Great motor. Fix the head gasket and keep it.

[Jim_Chow]

Depends how badly the head has warped/how badly it overheated. With many blown HG's, once you blow one, the next HG is more likely to blow. Blown HG's in the 80 are not uncommon. Virtually every time, it's from some cooling system problem. Maybe red & green coolants were mixed (sludges up the radiator), maybe just mud was clogging the radiator fins, causing the engine to overheat, etc. For an inline-4 cylinder toyota truck, a HG replacement is like $1200 at the dealer, so I'd expect a little more for the inline-6. There's no reason why the Toyota dealer can't do it for you (many won't work on Lexus cars, but some will), as the LX450 and Landcruiser have identical engines. You can save hundreds of $$ right there. You might also want to replace the head bolts (if needed; else you can reuse them once if in good condition [mechanic's call]). The existing head will need machining (they usually send it to a machine shop, have it pressure tested, checked for flatness, etc.).

When you replace the HG, as others mention, make sure the radiator is in good condition (not clogged), use only Toyota red coolant (silicate free, better on aluminum) mixed 50-50 with distilled water. Also, when the coolant is drained from the block, it helps to jam a coat hanger or rigid wire to shake residue loose, as if tap water + green coolant had been used in the past (and this is what most shops will use when servicing vehicles), the alumimum corrodes a little and crumbles into a sandy silt, which will gather that the drain plug hole. This happened on my 86 4runner. After years of using green coolant w/ tap water (prev. owner), there was silt build-up in the block. At 130K mi, I pulled the block drain bolt. Barely any coolant drained out (very slow). Upon inserting a coat hanger end into the drain hole, coolant then came gushing out, along w/ silt. I then flushed the block+heater core 3 times w/ distilled water, then refilled w/ toyota red mixed w/ distilled water. 2.5 years later at 180K mi, I changed the coolant, drained the block again, same trick w/ the coat hanger....this time, no silt! I could have let the coolant run longer (I live in southern Arizona...109F last weekend!).

If you're switching colors of coolants (green to red, etc.), it's critical to completely flush the cooling system, including heater core (crank the heater, max fan). The first time, I forgot to flush the heater core...radiator clogged up in about half a year (started hearing these sounds like water flowing down a drain pipe when someone flushes a toilet upstairs), only coming from the engine when starting from a dead stop w/ a cold engine.

[Rookie]

Not necessarily disagreeing with anything Jim Chow is saying... but there appears to be evidence that the head gasket failure prone 80 series vehicles may be a result of sludge buildup in the radiator from casting sands left over in the block manufacturing process. Certainly do not mix coolants, and get in a preventative maintenance habit of doing annual flushes of the coolant system.

Do some research before machining the head. Seems like I've read that that is a bad idea unless absolutely necessary. You may want call and talk to Robbie at Slee Offroad about what you need to do (have done) in regards to the head gasket replacement. He's the a guru when it comes to 80 series cruisers and has probably done more replacements than anyone on these rigs.

Final note; the head gasket failure typically happens at the number 5 and 6 cylinder heads. The replacement OEM head gaskets are supposed to be an improvement on the original design, so if you get is replaced, and everything cleaned out good, you shouldn't have any further problems. As Jim Chow said, the failure is typically a by-product of a manfunctioning cooling system resulting in overheating of the block. You need to get that part squared away and if there's sludge in the radiator, either get it replaced or removed and power flushed.

BTW, the sludge in the radiators generally migrates to the top, and you should be able to see it accumulated on the top cores by removing the radiator cap.

Oh, an another final note so you know: If you see the rig is overheating and/or signs of a blown head gasket, pull over immediately. Driving an overheated rig with an aluminum head will cause major damage.

My $0.02

Rookie.

[Jim_Chow]

Another thing to add to Rookie's post...don't neglect the heater hose (the one next to the firewall that's seemingly impossible to reach, hence the nickname "PHH" for pesky-heater hose). Those need to be replaced on 80's. If it blows, you'll be in trouble. I'd guess the tight quarters generates a lot of heat which deteriorates the hose? One thing I learned recently is that coolant hoses, even Toyota OEM ones, don't last nearly as long in Arizona as in LA...too much heat (109F last weekend, and it's not even June!). I had a radiator hose generate a slow leak (only leaked when the engine was cold/warming [first 8 miles] up since the cooling system is under pressure and the valve in the radiator cap had yet to open to allow the coolant to flow into the bottle). That OEM hose only lasted 55K mi (3 yrs) in AZ while the previous hose lasted 100K mi in CA along the coast.

Unfortunately, I haven't seem any aftermarket head gaskets (like those excellent "stopper" types ones made by HKS for the Supra) for the 1FZ engine. But as rookie mentioned, the newer OEM head gasket is supposed to be improved. The cooling system on any vehicle is one of the most neglected items. Lately, there's been a thread on the 80 series forum on ih8mud regarding toyota red coolant. Most of the guys prefer Toyota red. Dexx (?) brand coolant, everyone agrees, destroys cooling systems and should be avoided at all costs (to no surprise, it was engineered by GM, IIRC). The post is recent, from last week, in case you're interested. Also, never mix different coolants (red & green, etc.). I wouldn't even mix different brands due to different chemical compositions. I lost a radiator to sludge from forgetting to flush the heater core (flushed the block, but forget to crank the heater). Radiator was 60% clogged 6 months later (though the temp gauge didn't register any anomalies driving around town...had it tested at a radiator shop).