Giving Up On Fully Synthetic Oil

[Andrewsreef]

Not sure why this is happening but my 1997 LX450 with just at 72K on it goes through about a quart of mobil 1 10W30 every 1000 miles or so. It may be even using a little more than this. I am not sure where it is going but the engine must be burning it at some point.

Anyone else having this problem? If I can not figure out why I am going to switch to good old Castrol and see if it goes back to normal.

Thanks

Andrew

[roberttran]

From what I've heard, synthetic oils will clean up the engine a bit.

That means there were already leaks in your engine but carbon was keeping it clogged up. Once you added the mobil 1, it washed that out and now oil can leak out to be burned.

-Robert

[dougjohn]

I'm using Mobile 1 5W30 and am having some oil usage, but not as much as yours. My 450 tends to burn about 1 quart every 3k to 4k. With the synth, I like to change it every 5k miles, so I find myself adding a quart in between changes.

I've heard the same thing that Robert mentions about the synth oil cleaning up much of the gunk/sludge in the system, so some might notice leaks when they didn't have them before.

Are you leaking oil at all?

[fsuphi1459]

The straight six in these cars in known for burning oil, it is no an uncommon problem. I used to run regular 5W-30 in my Landcruiser and it would burn just as much oil as yours. I know have a 450 and run synthetic and have not noticed it burning as much. Be careful, you are not supposed to switch to regular after using synthetic. Not quite sure why that is, but I have heard it a lot. I would contact your mechanic and see what they have to say. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Steve

[monarch]

Some Toyota engines display a curious tendency to burn more oil if the throttle body plate and surrounding bore get dirty and gummy. This happened to a Toyota pickup of mine. Oil consumption plummeted to 700 miles a quart. After cleaning the throttle body twice, oil consumption returned to its previous rate of 3000 miles per quart - a huge improvement. So if your throttle body plate and bore have never been cleaned, now would be the time to try it. All you need is an aerosol can of carburetor or intake cleaner, a toothbrush to scrub the parts clean and some old rags to wipe away the goo. Confine small amounts of spray to the throttle plate and don't spray deep into the engine or you'll damage things. A clean throttle body also enhances engine power, fuel economy and reduces emissions.

[Andrewsreef]

I did have an oil leak at the valve cover. I had that fixed. I to thought that was were the oil was going. However, it must be burning it as I have no leaks that I can find. The engine is very clean inside. The oil looks like new after 4k on it and I do not appear to have any sludge at all. I just had a tune up with throttle body cleaning so I doubt it needs that again.

It surprises me that this thing would burn the oil. I switched my 1998 Toyota Seainna van to Mobil 1 and it has 4k on it and is still totaly full.

These engines must not be as "tight" as some of the newer ones. My friend has a 944 Porsche that had the same problem. He had to switch back to conventional oil.

I may try Castrol Syntec as I heard it was a little better about not burning.

Thanks

Andrew

[steviej]

two points.

1. If you use a throttle bottle cleaner, just read the can and use one that says "Safe for O2 Sensors".

2. The myth about not being able to switch back to conventional oil after using synthetic is a total myth started by the oil conglomerates to keep you buying synthetic (it costs more). You can go back and forth as much as you would like.

steviej

[monarch]

2. The myth about not being able to switch back to conventional oil after using synthetic is a total myth started by the oil conglomerates to keep you buying synthetic (it costs more). You can go back and forth as much as you would like.

Lexus's website advises not to switch back to petroleum-based oil

http://www.lexus.com/home/contact_lexus.html

5. Can I use synthetic engine oil in my Lexus vehicle during its break-in period?

Synthetic oil can be used at the first scheduled oil change. Please note that the

use of synthetic oil does not extend the recommended oil change intervals.

Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend longer oil change intervals.

Once synthetic oil is used, it is best not to switch back to petroleum-based oil.

Toyota's website also warns owner not to switch back to petroleum based oil

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/syn.jpg

[SKperformance]

I agree with stevie ,you can switch all you like no problems at all.

Remember everybody is a critic but very littleare experianced.

The funny part of the quote of toyota is it says petroleum based oil.

Synthetic is pertorleum based oil.It is not some weird chemical. It just uses a "synthetic" filtering process to remove more waxes,gums and other natural materials that normal filtering doesn't.

I used to beilve that you are never supposed to use syn from day one ,as this was " basic" knowledge .Then i pondered it for a wjile and realised this is more of an urban myth nobody ever bothered to figure out it was wrong. It is just cleaner oil. How in the world can a dirtier oil cause a problem for parts to be able to thrash against itself and seat properly?

Corvettes come with mobil 1 from the factory as do a few other high performance cars. Do they break the cars in before they deliver them?/

[monarch]

I agree with stevie ,you can switch all you like no problems at all.

Remember everybody is a critic but very little are experianced.

Skip, how could you know whether or not there are "no problems at all" ?? In a Toyota or Lexus, specifically? Common sense dictates Toyota is aware that switching back and forth between synthetic and dinosaur oil can cause problems in Toyota/Lexus vehicles. And that extending oil changes when using synthetic oil can cause problems. It's too bad we can never meet the Toyota engineers to have them explain things to us.

[fsuphi1459]

I have been told by the lexus specalist that switching back and forth is not recommended but none of them can tell me why. I have also heard this from Acura. I think we need an oil specialist here. Anyhow, I have read that synthetic oil does not break down as fast, thus, you can go more than 3,000 miles with out changing. I run synthetic in my LX. It is about $100 every oil change and I was talking to my mechanic about the benefits of using synthetic and he said "although no one who would be liable will say it, you can go much longer using synthetic, even up to 5,000 miles." Also, I have been told by a different Acura tech that synthetic oil is much better for people who go over on their oil change. Does anyone acutally know if this is true? I have been going about 4,500 on my synthetic and even after all those miles, it still looks clean and fresh.

Steve

[EnDLesS]

I have 97 LX 450 with 150k on it, i been usin 5w-30 & 10w-30 for 7 yrs also i do oil change regularly by myself around 3k or 3.5 , imean logically oil is oil once got into piston rings mixed n burns. No matter how damn good the synthetic is dont rely on or believe that oil can make u feel better by stayin lil longer.(dont need to get oil change soon) :whistles: The longer u wait to do oil change the faster &

sooner u gonna ruin that motor.

[steviej]

I run synthetic in my LX.  It is about $100 every oil change and I was talking to my mechanic about the benefits of using synthetic and he said "although no one who would be liable will say it, you can go much longer using synthetic, even up to 5,000 miles." 

Steve

The Toyota/Lexus intervals according to the service manual for conventional oil is 5000 and 7500 miles. I would never go 5000 miles with conventional oil.

I do go 5000 miles with synthetic and have never had a problem. I have read that synthetics can go from 7500 to even 15000 miles. I am not sure I would be comfortable going above the 5000 miles.

The main reason I use synthetic is simply for the extreme cold temps that I get in New England. Synthetic is far superior at temps below 0°, so extreme cold startups are much less harmful compared to conventional oil.

Mr. monarch, you seem to pick apart every statement I make, here and on CL. Don't worry, I don't take it personally and encourage future conversations. My statement is based on personal experience of mine and experience with my LEXUS dealership.

1. There are several nationally syndicated radio auto-talk shows. One of whcih has the famous duo know as "Click and Clack". My statement is a repeat of what they state. The second is from another auto talk show host know as The Auto Doctor. The host's name is Junior Demato. He has a radio show based out of Boston and a nationally syndicated newspaper Q and A column as well. Would you like the phone number? His opinion/statement/belief is the same.

2. If Lexus/Toyota don't want you to switch back, then it would be in their best nature to monitor what oil they put in....don't you think? But this would be a nightmare in tracking all oil changes. Recently, Lexus even put in conventional oil in my Lexus that has been using synthetic since 15k miles, initiated by Lexus. No problems from the car or even a comment from Lexus.

3. My father and brother are mechanics with a combined >60 years experience. I put a lot of trust in them. They concur with both radio shows.

as for break in periods, many high end autos are now shipped from the factory with synthetic oil already in them.

my statements are just my opinions based partly in fact and partly on my and others experiences, so far it has worked for me.

steviej

[monarch]

> My statement is based on personal experience of mine and experience with my LEXUS dealership.

"Click and Clack". The Auto Doctor. My father and brother are mechanics

Stevie, Lexus dealers are run by Americans who are notorious for doing things against the wishes of the Toyota / Lexus engineers. Dealers install green antifreeze in place of Toyota antifreeze, Valvoline transmission fluid in place of Toyota Type T-IV, Valvoline brake fluid in place of Toyota Brake Fluid, use unapproved engine oil and power steering additives, etc. So with a track record like that, Lexus dealers are not necessarily a very reliable source of Lexus car care advice.

Reliable car care advice comes from the Toyota/Lexus engineers. I think it's amazing that on the one hand, Lexus owners acknowledge that the Lexus engineers deserve credit for building the most reliable and durable cars in the world, yet on the other hand they consider the car care advice of Americans; i.e. "Click & Clack", "Autodoctor" , Lexus dealers, Bobistheoilguy and trusted local mechanics more authoritative than the advice of the Lexus engineers.

Maybe it's just a human nature thing and maybe the same phenomenon might occur if Ford or GM should ever ship a world class quality automobile to the Japanese market. Perhaps the Japanese owners of these quality Fords and Chevys would consider the car care advice of their own local Japanese mechanics more authoritative than the advice of the Ford and GM engineers.

[steviej]

and your point is????

so are you saying I should throw personal experience to the wind?

I think it will be a happier world (for me) if I keep doing what I have been doing.

I am sure you will enjoy your existing level of happiness if you keep doing what you do.

If we use lack of problems as a reference then neither one of us is wrong in doing what we do. Agreed?

sj

[SKperformance]

I still agree with stevie.

Just call me SK there is no "I" to make it skip

Being on a radio show means nothing more than they get to be flamed publicaly more often to have more knowledge

Using valvoline oil makes 0 difference ,do you really think toyota makes there own oil ,gas and other fluids???

I never mentioned anything about extended fluid changes.

I still only change my oil 2X ( summer 15w50 and winter 0w30)a year as it only does long highway drives when used but still hold better compression and power than any other ES i have seen or tested. I also burn zero oil or leak.

Distance is a basic measurement for changing the oil . If an engine is kept running like a taxi or a large truck they hardly ever change there oil even though it is used much more.It does not breakdown as easily as it is not cooled and heated as often which is where breakdown occurs. If all highway milage rather than city it is much the same. There are way too many tem milage stress speed climate and other variables to include so a manufactuer will ALWAYS make a very "safe" milage mark to change the oil.

It is a fact that the oil is the same but filtered differently to remove natrual deposits that are unwanted.This is what makes it have such a better pour point in hot and cold extremes. it also helps it from leaving burnt deposits inside an engine as it has fewer in it to leave.

This is not hearsay, a guess or anything else. So bring something to the table that is a "fact" not just an educated guess.

Because everyone has an opinion just like a few other things.

[monarch]

and your point is????

so are you saying I should throw personal experience to the wind?

I think it will be a happier world (for me) if I keep doing what I have been doing.

I am sure you will enjoy your existing level of happiness if you keep doing what you do.

If we use lack of problems as a reference then neither one of us is wrong in doing what we do. Agreed?

sj

Thousands of cigarette smokers also use the "lack of problems in my personal experience"

reasoning as well.

This whole discussion is about risk. A Lexus owner who disobeys the Lexus engineers and switches back and forth between dino and synthetic oils is risking expensive future trouble.

Neither of us knows exactly how great the risk is, however.

[monarch]

do you really think toyota makes there own oil ,gas and other fluids???

It doesn't matter who the fluid or lube manufacturer is. What matters is the Toyota engineers make the decisions about the chemical make up of Toyota fluid or lube and then contract with American manufactures to forumulate the fluid or lube to Toyota specs. So Toyota fluids and lubes end up being chemically unique from any auto parts store fluid or lube.

One example is Toyota fuel injector cleaner. The main ingredient is butyl cellosolve - a powerful chemical you won't find in milder fuel injector cleaner products like Chevron's Techron fuel injector cleaner. But guess who Toyota contracts to formulate Toyota fuel injector cleaner? Chevron!

Can you name any Toyota fluid or lube that is merely a repackaged, rebottled, relabeled existing

fluid or lube you can get at an auto parts store?

[steviej]

Thousands of cigarette smokers also use the "lack of problems in my personal experience"

reasoning as well.

bad analogy. I can show you tons of pictures and lab data as well as million dollar litigations about the harms and effects of cigarette smoking, retrospective and prospective.

what do you have for data and facts that says it is NOT ok to switch back and forth or use a non-Toyota fuel injector cleaner other than the engineers say so??

I have to start to wonder if you yourself are an Toyota/Lexus engineer.

I grow tired of this discussion, I will continue to use the fluids and filters that I have been using for 20 years, AND I will be comfortable with that.

good day, Mr. Monarch.

steviej

[SKperformance]

just for fun.

If i told you the sky is blue would you tell me it also turns white with clouds black with rain and grey at night.

[Rookie]

FWIW, a guy on one of the cruiser forums is very knowledgable and particularly interested in this issue. He sent a sampled of his oil (5w-40 mobil 1 synthetic) to be tested at 5,000 miles. The particle counts and wear indicators were extremely low (essentually nothing) and the recommendation from the testing lab was that he could comfortably increase his change interval to 6500 miles. In reviewing the numbers, he had no problem increasing his changes to 7500 or 10000 miles. Bottom line is you got to do what makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but it's hard to arque the numbers. At a minimum, I think you'll want to change the filter out at 4 to 5k.

Rookie.

[steviej]

Bottom line is you got to do what makes you feel warm and fuzzy,

Rookie.

EXACTLY!

[desmo1]

I have 191,000 on my 96 lx,  been using Amsoil 5w20 full syn since 80000 miles, only 1/2 qt every 15,000  then I change it